A few properties I maintain have infestations of furniture beetle,
varying in degree from small areas to two or three rooms.

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.

How do they get in the property in the first instance? Obviously
infected timbers or furniture brought into a property can introduce an
infestation but can they be brought in underfoot or on clothes (if
someone is working in an infested property) for instance?

Is there a risk I could take these furniture beetles home on my clothes,
footwear and coveralls and infest my own home by working in an infested
property? How can I best prevent taking the furniture beetles home if
such a risk does exist?

The general debris from the properties are cleaned out with brush and
shovel and commercial vacuum cleaner. Can the furniture beetles, their
larvae etc be transferred in the brushes or vacuum cleaners? Is there
something that can be applied to brushes and/or put in a vacuum cleaner
bag to kill off any beetles or their young if they do get in?

The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood. Do they also eat
paper, food scraps? What else are they partial to?

Obviously in the more infested properties timbers will have to be
replaced and a commercial firm called in to spray.
In the smaller infestations is there a commercial off the shelf chemical
(one that doesn't require special licensing to purchase) that can be
sprayed, painted or applied otherwise oneself, with proper safety
precautions of course?

Are there sprays, powders or chemicals that act hormonally to prevent
breeding as per flea spray?

Most properties are empty, unfurnished and uncarpeted.

--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.

Z wrote:

A few properties I maintain have infestations of furniture beetle,
varying in degree from small areas to two or three rooms.

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.

How do they get in the property in the first instance? Obviously
infected timbers or furniture brought into a property can introduce an
infestation but can they be brought in underfoot or on clothes (if
someone is working in an infested property) for instance?

The adult beetles can fly, so they fly to the house, get in through some
thing like an air brick and lay their eggs. However many beetles are
tropical and come here in exotic furniture timbers, emerging from the
finished piece in nice centrally heated environments. They can then only
spread within the warm space of the property. If your properties are
empty and unheated at this time of year, chances are everything will be
dormant. Just don't take any wood from infested properties home and sit
it in your heated house.

Is there a risk I could take these furniture beetles home on my clothes,
footwear and coveralls and infest my own home by working in an infested
property? How can I best prevent taking the furniture beetles home if
such a risk does exist?

I suppose you could sit in your car with the windows closed and spray
insecticide before returning home but the insecticide will affect you
too. I wouldn't worry about it.

The general debris from the properties are cleaned out with brush and
shovel and commercial vacuum cleaner. Can the furniture beetles, their
larvae etc be transferred in the brushes or vacuum cleaners? Is there
something that can be applied to brushes and/or put in a vacuum cleaner
bag to kill off any beetles or their young if they do get in?

well the young are in the wood, the holes are their exit holes made as
they emerge as adults, so you are very unlikely to have live grubs in
your vaccuum and if you did they would be smothered by the dust, ditto
any adults. But if you are worried, dispose of the bag before returning
home.

The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood. Do they also eat
paper, food scraps? What else are they partial to?

You want the specialised paper feeders for that one, consult a
librarian's group for lots of gruesome stories there.

Obviously in the more infested properties timbers will have to be
replaced and a commercial firm called in to spray.
In the smaller infestations is there a commercial off the shelf chemical
(one that doesn't require special licensing to purchase) that can be
sprayed, painted or applied otherwise oneself, with proper safety
precautions of course?

Yes, the sheds carry such things. Though if you are contracting someone
to treat the structure of the building they would doubtless quote for
furniture as part of the job.

Peter

Z wrote:

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.

Start he-

http://www.onthelevel.in-uk.com/timber-treatment.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

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Peter Ashby wrote

snip very useful & informed advice

The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood. Do they also eat
paper, food scraps? What else are they partial to?

You want the specialised paper feeders for that one, consult a
librarian's group for lots of gruesome stories there.

No, they only eat wood. and generally they're quite picky about what type of
wood, too. Both softwood and hardwood can be affected, but they prefer sapwood
to heartwood. Because of this you very rarely see serious damage to structural
timbers caused by Common Furniture Beetle (House Longhorn Beetle is a different
story).. Chipboard and plywood are very vulnerable as they are largely made of
sapwood. I once saw a big old house where all the electrical intake gear was
hanging on its wires because the ply backboards had all been turned to dust by
woodworm.

You cannot transfer an infection, except by moving infected timber. The adult
beetles emerge from the flight holes from late May to early August and live
about 3 - 4 weeks. They don't eat anything, but are strong fliers and can
travel long distances. After mating the female lays her eggs in cracks,
crevices and old flight holes in suitable timber and then dies. The larva hatch
after about 4-5 weeks and then start boring galleries in the wood, gradually
growing in size. Eventually they form a pupal chamber near the surface and
emerge as beetles after 6 - 8 weeks and the life cycle starts all over again.
The whole cycle can be as short as a year, but more often is up to 4 years.

The best DIY treatment I know of is Cuprinol Woodworm Killer
http://tinyurl.com/3g3e8
All infected timber taken out of the house should ideally be burned.

Peter

Z wrote in message ...
The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood.
Only damp wood I think.

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message
...
Peter Ashby wrote

snip very useful & informed advice

The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood. Do they also eat
paper, food scraps? What else are they partial to?

You want the specialised paper feeders for that one, consult a
librarian's group for lots of gruesome stories there.

No, they only eat wood. and generally they're quite picky about what type
of
wood, too.

Thought that "bookworms" were also the larvae of the common furniture
beetle, i.e. woodworm?

Both softwood and hardwood can be affected, but they prefer sapwood
to heartwood. Because of this you very rarely see serious damage to
structural
timbers caused by Common Furniture Beetle

(House Longhorn Beetle is a different
story)..

much bigger oval flight holes for that one, I believe & particularly a
problem around Camberley. My father was quite excited at first when we came
across a common longhorn beetle in my garden crawling over some dead timber
from a shrub I was removing.


snip

The old woodyard trick for keeping woodworm problem to a minimum was to
leave some Ash in the corner of the yard and burn it periodically. they
like Ash...



--
Richard Sampson

email me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

stuart noble wrote

Z wrote in message ...
The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood.

Only damp wood I think.


No that's not right Stuart. Anobium punctatum is the Common Furniture Beetle or
"woodworm", which attacks dry wood. The commonest beetles that attack only damp
wood are the family of Weevils

Peter

John Rumm wrote in message ...
Z wrote:

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.

Start he-

http://www.onthelevel.in-uk.com/timber-treatment.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

I think you'll find that he's wrong in his general assumption - very
much so!

Central heating doesn't dry out the roof space, the beneath
ground-floor space, it's only on for half the year and he completely
ignores the fact that timber in bathrooms (for instance) can easily
absorb enough moisture from the atmosphere to happily support these
little beasts.

I believe he also spouts similar nonsense about the non-exstence of
rising damp. It pays his wages though )

Patrick

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\================================================= ================/

"Meoww" wrote in message
om...
John Rumm wrote in message
...
Z wrote:

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.

Start he-

http://www.onthelevel.in-uk.com/timber-treatment.htm


--
Cheers,

John.

I think you'll find that he's wrong in his general assumption - very
much so!

Central heating doesn't dry out the roof space, the beneath
ground-floor space, it's only on for half the year and he completely
ignores the fact that timber in bathrooms (for instance) can easily
absorb enough moisture from the atmosphere to happily support these
little beasts.

I believe he also spouts similar nonsense about the non-exstence of
rising damp. It pays his wages though )

I totally agree. Common Furniture Beetle doesn't only attack damp timber and it
does not prefer newly felled trees. How does he think it got its name? It
attacks furniture!!!

He's also wrong about Dry Rot. Dry rot is so called because (A) it requires
drier conditions than wet rots and (B) it transports its own moisture and
attacks dry timber. That's why it is necessary to eradicate it, not just cut
off the source of moisture as he says. This is true only of wet rots. And to
say it was named "Cancer of Buildings" by a treatment company salesman is also
wrong. It is described in the Bible (Leviticus 14 vs. 33-57) as a "fretting
leprosy of the house", from the appearance of the water droplets, like tears,
that form on the fruiting body.

I agree with most of what he says about double glazing, plastics and wall
coatings though. This bit intrigued me: "There is growing evidence that
plastic pipes leach chemicals into the drinking water which can make men
infertile."

Peter

Z wrote in message ...
A few properties I maintain have infestations of furniture beetle,
varying in degree from small areas to two or three rooms.

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.


You may find something in my reply to a previous thread on this topic:

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?hl...e%26 rnum%3D2

Regards

Peter Taylor wrote in message ...
No that's not right Stuart. Anobium punctatum is the Common Furniture
Beetle or
"woodworm", which attacks dry wood.
Oh! Bit of a rarity these days though. I'd always attributed that to the
dryness of our houses.
Had a cabinet once where the body was untouched but the relatively new ply
back was full of worm. Maybe they like adhesive too.

Peter Taylor wrote:

coatings though. This bit intrigued me: "There is growing evidence that
plastic pipes leach chemicals into the drinking water which can make men
infertile."

I think he is referring to research that suggests that the apparent
global reduction in male sperm counts, could be linked to many of the
compounds used as plasticisers since they are very "oestrogen like" in
chemical make-up. Especially when combined with the large contribution
of extra synthetic oestrogens from birth control pills that also
ultimately gets released into the environment

--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Meoww wrote:

I think you'll find that he's wrong in his general assumption - very
much so!

Central heating doesn't dry out the roof space, the beneath
ground-floor space, it's only on for half the year and he completely
ignores the fact that timber in bathrooms (for instance) can easily
absorb enough moisture from the atmosphere to happily support these
little beasts.

I get the feeling that he "over eggs" the argument a little for dramatic
effect (as you say it pays the wages). Having said that I think he is
right that many people assume the little blighters will eat the whole
house if unchecked. Perhaps he ought to say they will just eat the
bathroom! ;-)

I believe he also spouts similar nonsense about the non-exstence of
rising damp. It pays his wages though )

What he seems to say about rising damp is that it is very rare to find
genuine rising damp - and is often mis-diagnosed when the real reason is
more likely to be some other source of dampness (penetration, bridging
etc). He also suggests that the "damp" treatment industry is full of
cowboys.... no sure he is going to get much disagreement there.

ISTR that there was a university research project that attempted to
study "rising damp". It involved building lots of brick (and other
materials) piers which were then sat in a shallow tank of water. They
then measured the moisture content drawn up into the pier. The general
conclusions were that it was actually quite difficult to get much
moisture to rise in most common building materials. They did manage it
by using a very soft brick with a mortar of very nearly plain sand with
a bit of lime though.

--
Cheers,

John.

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\================================================= ================/

"Peter Taylor" wrote in message ...
"Meoww" wrote in message
om...
John Rumm wrote in message
...
Z wrote:

snip
He's also wrong about Dry Rot. Dry rot is so called because (A) it
requires
drier conditions than wet rots

Not actually true. You don't often find Dry Rot for instance as a
result of rising damp. It needs quite a fair amount of water to get
started. When it's off and running it can do with less...

(B) it transports its own moisture and attacks dry timber.

It certainly does...

That's why it is necessary to eradicate it, not just cut
off the source of moisture

If you remove the water source, it will die eventually, as will all
rots. It transports moisture via it's hyphae from the moisture source
to dry wood and continues from there. If the source dries up however,
so does the rest of it. It can't manufacture water from the
atmosphere.

It is described in the Bible (Leviticus 14 vs. 33-57) as a "fretting
leprosy of the house", from the appearance of the water droplets, like tears,
that form on the fruiting body.

I didn't know that - quite fascinating. I know it's latin name,
Serpula Lacrymans, alludes to tears but I haven't read Leviticus for
quite a while (well, never actually))

I agree with most of what he says about double glazing, plastics and wall
coatings though. This bit intrigued me: "There is growing evidence that
plastic pipes leach chemicals into the drinking water which can make men
infertile."

I think he's one of these people who need a large pinch of salt.

Regards

Patrick

In article , Peter Taylor
writes

He's also wrong about Dry Rot. Dry rot is so called because (A) it requires
drier conditions than wet rots and (B) it transports its own moisture and
attacks dry timber. That's why it is necessary to eradicate it, not just cut
off the source of moisture as he says.

If you cut out the source of moisture, where is it going to carry its
water from?

This is true only of wet rots.

No it isn't. I can't really believe you are what you claim to be when
you are so clueless. However I can believe you get much of your income
from the timber treatment lobby, as you have clearly swallowed their
stories hook, line and sinker.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article , Peter Taylor
writes
He's also wrong about Dry Rot. Dry rot is so called because (A) it requires
drier conditions than wet rots and (B) it transports its own moisture and
attacks dry timber. That's why it is necessary to eradicate it, not just cut
off the source of moisture as he says.

There is extensive dry rot in Brighton Pavilion but they cannot do as
you suggest (remove it)- all they do is carefully maintain the
temperature and humidity.
--
Andrew

Meoww wrote

He's also wrong about Dry Rot. Dry rot is so called because (A) it
requires drier conditions than wet rots

Not actually true. You don't often find Dry Rot for instance as a
result of rising damp. It needs quite a fair amount of water to get
started. When it's off and running it can do with less...

Yes, that's my experience too. Poor wording on my part. The largest outbreak I
ever saw ocurred behind wall panelling in a historic house following a fire -
there wasn't a great deal of damage due to the fire, but the water from the fire
brigade's hoses took months to dry out properly. And when the walls were
virtually dry (c. 22%) there suddenly appeared a mass or mycelium. This was
despite opening up as much panelling etc as we could to ventilate and assist
drying.

(B) it transports its own moisture and attacks dry timber.

It certainly does...

That's why it is necessary to eradicate it, not just cut
off the source of moisture

If you remove the water source, it will die eventually, as will all
rots. It transports moisture via it's hyphae from the moisture source
to dry wood and continues from there. If the source dries up however,
so does the rest of it. It can't manufacture water from the
atmosphere.

I'm not sure this is true. I believe it can survive for hundreds of years in a
dry state. I also read somewhere that it survives in humid air, without any
other obvious moisture source. If you have any research papers or information
on that I would be very pleased to know.

In practice, of course, it is very hard to cut off every source of dampness,
especially in old buildings. And nobody whose livelihood depends on advising
clients or carrying out a dry rot eradication service is going to be able to say
"OK, now I've cut off all the moisture it needs no further treatment."

Also current research on treating by ventilation is inconclusive in my view -
certainly not conclusive enough to be able to recommend it to clients. Good
ventilation stunts its growth, but it then tries to "escape" from the fresh air
and move to less ventilated places. It can even spread in places that can't be
ventilated, like behind plaster, and I've heard of cases of it getting through
solid brickwork.

Peter

In article , Peter Taylor
writes

I'm not sure this is true. I believe it can survive for hundreds of years in a
dry state.

Most fungi can survive as spores for considerable periods of time. The
dry rot spores are everywhere in the atmosphere, so there is no way to
eradicated them. They are there for a purpose - to break down dead wood,
mainly in forest-floor conditions. The unfortunate thing is that people
tend to try and recreate these conditions in their homes by increasing
the humidity and reducing the ventilation, urged on my government
"Energy Efficiency" programmes.

In practice, of course, it is very hard to cut off every source of dampness,
especially in old buildings. And nobody whose livelihood depends on advising
clients or carrying out a dry rot eradication service is going to be able to say
"OK, now I've cut off all the moisture it needs no further treatment."

However a number of the better informed consultants are now saying "The
ventilation is now sufficient to prevent future growth".

Also current research on treating by ventilation is inconclusive in my view -
certainly not conclusive enough to be able to recommend it to clients. Good
ventilation stunts its growth, but it then tries to "escape" from the fresh air
and move to less ventilated places. It can even spread in places that can't be
ventilated, like behind plaster, and I've heard of cases of it getting through
solid brickwork.

Indeed in our house it had grown between the plaster and the brickwork,
but once the wall had been dried out the dry-rot died.

I have also seen if cross a twenty foot (enclosed) pipe bridge, carrying
its own water supply, but once the source of moisture was removed and
the ventilation improved it withered and died.

J.
--
John Rouse

In article , Peter Ashby
writes
Z wrote:

A few properties I maintain have infestations of furniture beetle,
varying in degree from small areas to two or three rooms.

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and eradication
of them.

How do they get in the property in the first instance? Obviously
infected timbers or furniture brought into a property can introduce an
infestation but can they be brought in underfoot or on clothes (if
someone is working in an infested property) for instance?

The adult beetles can fly, so they fly to the house, get in through some
thing like an air brick and lay their eggs. However many beetles are
tropical and come here in exotic furniture timbers, emerging from the
finished piece in nice centrally heated environments. They can then only
spread within the warm space of the property. If your properties are
empty and unheated at this time of year, chances are everything will be
dormant. Just don't take any wood from infested properties home and sit
it in your heated house.

Is there a risk I could take these furniture beetles home on my clothes,
footwear and coveralls and infest my own home by working in an infested
property? How can I best prevent taking the furniture beetles home if
such a risk does exist?

I suppose you could sit in your car with the windows closed and spray
insecticide before returning home but the insecticide will affect you
too. I wouldn't worry about it.

The general debris from the properties are cleaned out with brush and
shovel and commercial vacuum cleaner. Can the furniture beetles, their
larvae etc be transferred in the brushes or vacuum cleaners? Is there
something that can be applied to brushes and/or put in a vacuum cleaner
bag to kill off any beetles or their young if they do get in?

well the young are in the wood, the holes are their exit holes made as
they emerge as adults, so you are very unlikely to have live grubs in
your vaccuum and if you did they would be smothered by the dust, ditto
any adults. But if you are worried, dispose of the bag before returning
home.

The Anobium punctatum's main source of food is wood. Do they also eat
paper, food scraps? What else are they partial to?

You want the specialised paper feeders for that one, consult a
librarian's group for lots of gruesome stories there.

Obviously in the more infested properties timbers will have to be
replaced and a commercial firm called in to spray.
In the smaller infestations is there a commercial off the shelf chemical
(one that doesn't require special licensing to purchase) that can be
sprayed, painted or applied otherwise oneself, with proper safety
precautions of course?

Yes, the sheds carry such things. Though if you are contracting someone
to treat the structure of the building they would doubtless quote for
furniture as part of the job.

Peter

I fear I have taken them home so I will need to treat my house as well
:-(

I found castings, tiny sand coloured insects and dead beetles under the
fridge this morning when I pulled the refrigerator out to clean and
defrost it.
These are the same species I have found at the properties I maintain.

I will need to treat my own house myself.
Any recommendations for chemicals? I can get out the house for a week in
May.
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.

In article , John Rumm
writes
Z wrote:

I have a few questions about the spread of infestations and
eradication of them.

Start he-

http://www.onthelevel.in-uk.com/timber-treatment.htm


This presumes there may not be actiove 'woodworm'.
A few weeks ago I saw a larvae seemingly munching away at the pastry
board.
There are castings, live beetles and dead beetles under the sofa and
armchair and some in a bedroom.
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.

In article , Z
writes
I fear I have taken them home so I will need to treat my house as well
:-(

First find out if you have woodworm or something else.

I found castings, tiny sand coloured insects and dead beetles under the
fridge this morning when I pulled the refrigerator out to clean and
defrost it.

That doesn't sound like woodworm. They are small black flies which
usually head for the nearest window and kill themselves flying into the
glass.

These are the same species I have found at the properties I maintain.

Woodworm only thrive in cool damp places where timber is already rotten
or soft. I trust your properties are better maintained than this?

I will need to treat my own house myself.

If it is woodworm, simply drying it out and removing any soft or rotten
timber will get rid of them.

Any recommendations for chemicals? I can get out the house for a week in
May.

You could try the method that has been used for hundreds of years. Take
a bit of green ash, complete with the bark. Leave it in the house for a
year, and burn it on the 31st December, complete with woodworm larvae.

J.
--
John Rouse

Z wrote:
[ worry about woodworm ]
I fear I have taken them home so I will need to treat my house as well
:-(

I found castings, tiny sand coloured insects and dead beetles under
the fridge this morning when I pulled the refrigerator out to clean
and defrost it. These are the same species I have found at the
properties I maintain.

I will need to treat my own house myself.

I don't think you are correct. You seem to have made some baseless
assumptions. Now is not the time for woodworm to emerge. You won't
cart larvae about on your cloths, unless you've been smashing up or
splitting timber. They couldn't survive long enough outside to eat
their way into timber again anyway. Adult beetles would fly off
you PDQ anyway. You are most unlikely to spread woodworm by the
means you mention.


Any recommendations for chemicals? I can get out the house for a
week in May.

Anything you can get from a BM or DIY retailer, if you decide to
treat timberwork. Use protective equipment, i.e. mask/coverall.

However, given the unlikelyness of all that crap under your fridge
being woodworm, I wouldn't bother.

Hints:

Woodworm live in wood. They hatch from an egg laid on the timber,
and burrow into it. You can't see those holes. They live in the
wood as larvae (maggots) until mature, when they "drill" through
to the surface of the wood, leaving exit ("flight") holes. The
beetles may be found, later in the year, on window cills etc.
trying to get out. Their flight holes are worth looking at - if
they are old, then shining a torch across (in the dark!) will
not show them up well - the inside of the hole will have gone
the same colour as the outside, the holes will have filled with
dust or whatever. If the holes are fresh (look in late Summer
or Autumn) they will stand out very well, the insides of the
holes will be a light "new wood" colour. There may be frass
("timber dust", ahem) lying about from new boreholes, too. It
isn't worth doing anything about the situation in a hurry -
treatments soak into the outside of the timber, and only poison
the beetle as it chews its way out. Larvae in the wood are not
killed. You need quite a serious amount of woodworm tunnels to
make replacement necessary.

Now you know quite a lot about practical woodworm treatment,
so look up some pictures on the 'net to see what they look like.


J.B.

In article , John Rouse
writes
In article , Z
writes
I fear I have taken them home so I will need to treat my house as well
:-(

First find out if you have woodworm or something else.

Yes they are furniture beetle.


I found castings, tiny sand coloured insects and dead beetles under the
fridge this morning when I pulled the refrigerator out to clean and
defrost it.

That doesn't sound like woodworm. They are small black flies which
usually head for the nearest window and kill themselves flying into the
glass.

They are beetles.

These are the same species I have found at the properties I maintain.

Woodworm only thrive in cool damp places where timber is already rotten
or soft. I trust your properties are better maintained than this?

You must be joking! The rent my client takes in doesn't go anywhere near
paying for their upkeep.


I will need to treat my own house myself.

If it is woodworm, simply drying it out and removing any soft or rotten
timber will get rid of them.

Simply? It means shifting furniture, lifting carpets... :-(


Any recommendations for chemicals? I can get out the house for a week in
May.

You could try the method that has been used for hundreds of years. Take
a bit of green ash, complete with the bark. Leave it in the house for a
year, and burn it on the 31st December, complete with woodworm larvae.

J.

I'll try that.
--
Z
Remove all Zeds in e-mail address to reply.