Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass
was damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc
onto some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they
do two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can
tell, they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but
I'm guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra
two inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have
to go up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it
wouldn't save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the
smaller model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

On 31/05/18 12:24, Stephen wrote:
Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass
was damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

I know you said petrol, but I have one of the Bosch 36V Rotak mowers
(about 3 years old now) and I've been very impressed. It does collect
the grass extremely well and is surprisingly powerful.

The main thing is you need 2 batteries really, so you can swap back and
forth for a larger lawn.

It replaced a petrol Hayter of similar cut width and it's lighter, no
mains cord, and not bothered about side slopes (was always upsetting the
Hayter doing those).



Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc
onto some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they
do two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can
tell, they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but
I'm guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra
two inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have
to go up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it
wouldn't save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the
smaller model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Stephen used his keyboard to write :
Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

Unless the grass is very dried out, they all do clog up. I have a
tractor/mower, which uses a duct from the cutting deck, to a massive
collector bag hooked onto the rear. That clogs up to the point where I
gave up on collecting it because the duct would choke up so very often.
I just mulch it back onto the soil now and carry a stick to poke the
duct clear when it chokes. Process is cut, then go around a second time
to mulch it, it takes 30 minutes to fly round, once I have gained
control of it after the winter and it has dried out enough to drive
upon.

On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass
was damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc
onto some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they
do two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can
tell, they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but
I'm guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra
two inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have
to go up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it
wouldn't save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the
smaller model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

My Honda Izzy does tend to clog if the grass is damp and the cut is more
than an inch or two off. I got the 16" because, as you say, it has the same
motor and thus it should be less stressed.
My gardens are a bit bumpy and have lots of things to get around, so the
smaller one - and definitely not SP (I could see that it would take me
along, with so any corners and curves) - seemed to be better.
Now, when I used to cut the grass next door, I've had to 3 cuts at times. It
is sports-pitch grass and grows fast an thick. The Honda would need 2 cuts
if the grass was 4 - 5" long.
The new neighbour bougt an electric mower form B&Q - a cheap Mac Allister
IIRC, about £70. I wished him luck with that! I was right PO'd when it cut
the grass with no trouble at all - it was about a quarter of the price of
the Izzy. Only snag is the flex, especially round shrubs etc.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Stephen Wrote in message:
Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

Just a couple of general points.

I've had a 3.5hp Briggs and Stratton powered mower for about 25
years now. It was a Qualcast machine with GRP deck rather than
metal.

Apart from a small crack, the deck is in perfect condition and I
think it's a much better material than steel (which will rot
away).

The engine seized once due to neglect (apparently the oil doesn't
last forever) but a quick shot of oil down the plughole soon got
it going again and it's been running perfectly since.

So, B&S made good engines 25 years ago and plastic decks seem to
be a good idea.

Tim

On 31/05/2018 15:06, Tim+ wrote:
Stephen Wrote in message:
Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

Just a couple of general points.

I've had a 3.5hp Briggs and Stratton powered mower for about 25
years now. It was a Qualcast machine with GRP deck rather than
metal.

Apart from a small crack, the deck is in perfect condition and I
think it's a much better material than steel (which will rot
away).

The engine seized once due to neglect (apparently the oil doesn't
last forever) but a quick shot of oil down the plughole soon got
it going again and it's been running perfectly since.


Maybe I should change the oil in mine.

I do find that my more modern petrol engines start very easily. My
neighbour heard me trying to start my old flymo and asked me if I would
like to borrow his grass cutter. The new flymo with a Honda engine
always starts very easily.

Maybe the OP should consider one of the new automatic mowers. If you use
them often you avoid the cut grass disposal problem. Has anyone tried
one of these?


--
Michael Chare

On 31/05/18 12:52, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Stephen used his keyboard to write :
Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

Unless the grass is very dried out, they all do clog up. I have a
tractor/mower, which uses a duct from the cutting deck, to a massive
collector bag hooked onto the rear. That clogs up to the point where I
gave up on collecting it because the duct would choke up so very often.
I just mulch it back onto the soil now and carry a stick to poke the
duct clear when it chokes. Process is cut, then go around a second time
to mulch it, it takes 30 minutes to fly round, once I have gained
control of it after the winter and it has dried out enough to drive upon.
+1


--
Labour - a bunch of rich people convincing poor people to vote for rich
people
by telling poor people that "other" rich people are the reason they are
poor.

Peter Thompson

On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass was
damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had one
before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc onto
some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they do
two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can tell,
they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but I'm
guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra two
inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have to go
up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it wouldn't
save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the smaller
model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

We have a Bosch Rotak and it seems to be fine, although we currently only
have a small lawn. I don't know if you just had a bad example.

Best mower we have had was a Harry (no longer made) which had an alloy
deck and a Briggs & Stratton engine. Generally abused and ignored and it
always seemed to start and cut well.

I have found the electric mower to be much easier than petrol, though.

Cheers



Dave R
--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 31/05/2018 17:40, David wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

Odd. I have used both sorts and never had an electric one stall on me.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass was
damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

How strange. the air flow should be sufficient to blow stuff into the
bag or whatever collection method it uses. Have you tried cleaning the
bag that the grass cuttings go into? If air can't get out then there
will not be enough air flow to carry the grass cuttings along.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had one
before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

Mine is a Mountfield 18" petrol with 135cc Honda engine. It is my second
in three decades used to cut about 1/3 acre all summer long. Its
predecessor fell apart after 20 years due to petrol spills and general
wear and tear. It has only stalled on me when I tried to cut a flagstone
or edging with it and even then it sometimes cut a piece off.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc onto
some of this in the future.

That is probably a bit small to be worth the effort of a petrol mower.
You should be able to get an electric one that works OK.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they do
two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can tell,
they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but I'm
guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra two
inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have to go
up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it wouldn't
save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the smaller
model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

The 18" is my choice for a moderately large set of lawns with one of
them on a fairly aggressive slope where the self propelled feature is
helpful. On the flat I don't find it all that important. YMMV

It only has one speed - sort of slow walking.

We have a Bosch Rotak and it seems to be fine, although we currently only
have a small lawn. I don't know if you just had a bad example.

Best mower we have had was a Harry (no longer made) which had an alloy
deck and a Briggs & Stratton engine. Generally abused and ignored and it
always seemed to start and cut well.

I have found the electric mower to be much easier than petrol, though.

I think it depends a lot on how you get on with things mechanical. They
are fairly simple engines and quite easy to maintain and service but if
you are having to pay someone to do that work they can become expensive.

Electric is by comparison plug and play. Try giving the grass box on
your existing one a really good spring clean and you may be surprising
at how much performance improves. Something is wrong if it jams.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 31/05/2018 17:40, David wrote:
Best mower we have had was a Harry (no longer made)

Are you sure. He insists on popping up here all the time.

Martin Brown was thinking very hard :
Odd. I have used both sorts and never had an electric one stall on me.


Every mower, electric hover (the early orange hover machine), rotary
engined and even the current tractor and its immediate predecessor have
suffered stalls. More so in the first cuts of the season, but better as
the weather warmed up and the grass became drier. I had to be ready to
lift the hover off the grass, when I heard it labouring too much.

All those which collected grass, have suffered frequent choking with
cuttings too. Today the grass was warm and it was fairly dry - using a
14HHP tractor/mower as usual without any grass collection, it managed
to choke up it's duct around 5 times, to the point where I had to stop
and poke the duct clear with a stick. I have tried running without the
duct, but that blows the cuttings onto the drive pulleys and eventually
jams the drive system at the back axle/ diff.

On 31/05/2018 19:37, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Martin Brown was thinking very hard :
Odd. I have used both sorts and never had an electric one stall on me.


Every mower, electric hover (the early orange hover machine), rotary
engined and even the current tractor and its immediate predecessor have
suffered stalls. More so in the first cuts of the season, but better as
the weather warmed up and the grass became drier. I had to be ready to
lift the hover off the grass, when I heard it labouring too much.

All those which collected grass, have suffered frequent choking with
cuttings too. Today the grass was warm and it was fairly dry - using a
14HHP tractor/mower as usual without any grass collection, it managed to
choke up it's duct around 5 times, to the point where I had to stop and
poke the duct clear with a stick. I have tried running without the duct,
but that blows the cuttings onto the drive pulleys and eventually jams
the drive system at the back axle/ diff.


I'm going to look at this from a very different angle.
I suspect you don't cut your grass often enough so you are cutting
longer grass.
One of the best lawns I knew was from an elderly chap who used a push
mower without a box to cut his grass. He did it every day without fail,
even if it was raining, as there was only a little growth he could just
walk the mower, no going back and forth to get it through the grass.
If you cut a couple of times a week or even more then you would find it
much easier and as you would be taking off a lot less grass every time
it would be an easy walk for both you and your mower.
Also have a look at the underside, is it clean or has it got grass built
up there which will imped the flow of air and clippings.
You are only cutting a small area and will be walking (if you cut a 12"
strip each time) less than 300 yds, so doing that 2 or 3 times a week
will only take you minutes each time and as the grass will be shorter
then you wont have to empty the box often, and you will end up with a
much better lawn.

David pretended :
You are only cutting a small area and will be walking (if you cut a 12" strip
each time) less than 300 yds, so doing that 2 or 3 times a week will only
take you minutes each time and as the grass will be shorter then you wont
have to empty the box often, and you will end up with a much better lawn.

It is usually cut around twice per week, on two consecutive days. It is
far too uneven and large to even contemplate a push mower, or really
anything less than a tractor. I went through a series of different
mower types, before arriving at a tractor. All the others simply
couldn't cope with the size of the job, it would take forever and none
survived very long. The tractor whips round so quickly, it actually
does the job with less fuel than other types I have tried. It is also
much easier on me, just driving it around.

When I first moved here, the garden was buried under bramble. I tried
electric hover, petrol hover, petrol cylinder, electric cylinder - the
size and the time needed beat them all.

On 31/05/2018 19:37, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Martin Brown was thinking very hard :
Odd. I have used both sorts and never had an electric one stall on me.


Every mower, electric hover (the early orange hover machine), rotary
engined and even the current tractor and its immediate predecessor have
suffered stalls. More so in the first cuts of the season, but better as
the weather warmed up and the grass became drier. I had to be ready to
lift the hover off the grass, when I heard it labouring too much.

If you wait until the grass is ridiculously long before cutting it or
try to cut it when it is far too wet then yes you probably can.

All those which collected grass, have suffered frequent choking with
cuttings too. Today the grass was warm and it was fairly dry - using a
14HHP tractor/mower as usual without any grass collection, it managed to
choke up it's duct around 5 times, to the point where I had to stop and
poke the duct clear with a stick. I have tried running without the duct,
but that blows the cuttings onto the drive pulleys and eventually jams
the drive system at the back axle/ diff.

Something doesn't sound right. I sometimes have to free the grass exit
if I try to cut one more stripe than I should have done but you can hear
the tone of the motor change and see bits of grass dropping out the back
when the collection chamber is nearly full. I tend to push it a bit
close since I prefer to be at the end nearest the heap when I stop.

I blame lack of mechanical sympathy for your woes.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

After serious thinking Martin Brown wrote :
I blame lack of mechanical sympathy for your woes.

Or it could just be very tough grass and never throughly dries out. We
have a few inches of soil, under which is very heavy clay. It used to
flood in heavy rain, but I put in lots of drainage to try to help
prevent it. It usually needs a week of dry warm weather, even in the
summer, before it is fit to try to cut it - so sometimes it just has to
be left uncut. The first cut of 2018 was very delayed by the wet
weather.

"Andrew" wrote in message
news
On 31/05/2018 17:40, David wrote:
Best mower we have had was a Harry (no longer made)

Are you sure. He insists on popping up here all the time.

Fortunately no one has ever made more than the one of those.

In article ,
Stephen writes:
Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

Induction motor is the right type for an electric mower, but is
only found in more expensive models. If yours is stalling, it's
overloaded or there's something wrong with it. Note it won't
have much starting torque, so it won't be able to start if
clogged, but once running, it has high torque at nearly full
speed, so it shouldn't slow much under normal load. The only
failure mode unique to induction motor mowers is the capacitor
failing and they cost just a few quid to replace. Symptom is
that the already low starting torque gets even lower or drops
to nothing in the case of complete failure (can be spin started
if you don't mind losing all your fingers!!!), but once started
it runs normally.

A universal motor used in most electric mowers is exactly the
opposite way around - lots of starting torque, but it can't
maintain speed when cutting, since a universal motor has to be
slowed much more under load to generate torque. Also a universal
motor spins way too fast, so it needs additional pulleys and belts
to run the blade at the right speed for mowing. This is a lot more
to fail - motor brushes, and the belt drive have limited life.
Generally, the build quality is way lower than induction motor
mowers and the efficiency lower, so needs a higher power rating
for same width cut (and motor runs much hotter, which also doesn't
help the longevity).

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 3:06:18 PM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
Stephen Wrote in message:
Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

Just a couple of general points.

I've had a 3.5hp Briggs and Stratton powered mower for about 25
years now. It was a Qualcast machine with GRP deck rather than
metal.

Apart from a small crack, the deck is in perfect condition and I
think it's a much better material than steel (which will rot
away).

The engine seized once due to neglect (apparently the oil doesn't
last forever) but a quick shot of oil down the plughole soon got
it going again and it's been running perfectly since.

So, B&S made good engines 25 years ago and plastic decks seem to
be a good idea.


I had a Husqvarna Royal something-or-other with a plastic body and B&S engine, only problem I had is a snapped starter cord. Insurance coughed up for a replacement, similar model but now a metal body which seems like a retrograde step as I can see bubbles of rust forming under the paint. Still a B&S engine which thrives on neglect, thankfully (and shamefully).

On 01/06/18 00:04, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
A universal motor used in most electric mowers is exactly the
opposite way around - lots of starting torque, but it can't
maintain speed when cutting, since a universal motor has to be
slowed much more under load to generate torque. Also a universal
motor spins way too fast, so it needs additional pulleys and belts
to run the blade at the right speed for mowing. This is a lot more
to fail - motor brushes, and the belt drive have limited life.
Generally, the build quality is way lower than induction motor
mowers and the efficiency lower, so needs a higher power rating
for same width cut (and motor runs much hotter, which also doesn't
help the longevity).

This is all utter codswallop.

A properly designed and near 'perfect' motor will genee maximum torque
one RPM below 'free runnimng'

The theory is simple. The motor will spin till the back EMF - a product
of the speed, number of turns on the armature and magentic field -
matches the applied EMF.

When a load is applied if the motor drops speed, the current will
incerase until the speed is retired, less any copper losses.

That is the EMF and RPM always matches the applied voltage minus IR
losses in the copper..

On good motor this can result in near instant burnout when stalled.

What I suspect you have encountered is 'stall proof' motors that
deliberetely have far top much resistance in the windings.

Induction motors are crap really for serious power. Obnce they lose
synchronism, they are useless.


--
€œA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
€œWe did this ourselves.€�

ۥ Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

In message , Stephen
writes

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they
do two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can
tell, they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue?

I bought a Honda 'Easy Start' 4 stroke petrol mower a few years ago, and
it has been wonderful. Starts first or second pull every time, cuts
well and is light enough for wife to use easily as well. Self propelled
at walking pace (single speed) and has never clogged. Highly
recommended.

--
Graeme

It happens that The Natural Philosopher formulated :
Induction motors are crap really for serious power. Obnce they lose
synchronism, they are useless.

They are at their best for driving low inertia loads, where the loading
gradually increases as the speed increases.

Halmyre brought next idea :
I had a Husqvarna Royal something-or-other with a plastic body and B&S
engine, only problem I had is a snapped starter cord. Insurance coughed up
for a replacement, similar model but now a metal body which seems like a
retrograde step as I can see bubbles of rust forming under the paint. Still a
B&S engine which thrives on neglect, thankfully (and shamefully).

Insurance paid for a replacement, due to a snapped pull cord - surely
that is simple wear and tear? Also an easy DIY repair.

On 01/06/2018 07:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Induction motors are crap really for serious power. Obnce they lose
synchronism, they are useless.



That must be why they use them for virtually all large industrial
machines because they are cr@p!

on 01/06/2018, dennis@home supposed :
That must be why they use them for virtually all large industrial machines
because they are cr@p!

In industry, they have several clever starting methods to overcome the
drawbacks of induction motors, so for industry they make for a very
reliable, cheap and simple to build motor. Universal motors just don't
scale up so easily or cheaply, nor as efficiently.

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 8:14:49 AM UTC+1, Graeme wrote:
In message , Stephen
writes

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they
do two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can
tell, they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue?

I bought a Honda 'Easy Start' 4 stroke petrol mower a few years ago, and
it has been wonderful. Starts first or second pull every time, cuts
well and is light enough for wife to use easily as well. Self propelled
at walking pace (single speed) and has never clogged. Highly
recommended.

--
Graeme

We had a Westwood mower that collected the cutting effortlessly thanks to the driven brush at the rear. Our trouble was getting rid of all the grass so we switched to a Husqvarna mulching mower but to be effective the grass really needs cut twice a week otherwise the mulching isn't so effective.

On Fri, 1 Jun 2018 09:42:49 +0100, "dennis@home" wrote:

On 01/06/2018 07:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:


Induction motors are crap really for serious power. Obnce they lose
synchronism, they are useless.



That must be why they use them for virtually all large industrial
machines because they are cr@p!

Exactly.

Every standby (and sometimes main) boiler feed pump on every single power
station in the country, gas circulators on AGR's, circulating water pumps and
the boiler fans... all induction motors, mostly supplied at 11kV or 6.6kV

500kW a piece for an AGR gas circulator, same for a circulating water pump and a
boiler fan, 5MW for a standby boiler feed pump

I can't recall what UK site has (or had) an electric rather than steam driven
main boiler feed pump but it was rated in the region of 10MW.

--

On Friday, June 1, 2018 at 9:13:05 AM UTC+1, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Halmyre brought next idea :
I had a Husqvarna Royal something-or-other with a plastic body and B&S
engine, only problem I had is a snapped starter cord. Insurance coughed up
for a replacement, similar model but now a metal body which seems like a
retrograde step as I can see bubbles of rust forming under the paint. Still a
B&S engine which thrives on neglect, thankfully (and shamefully).

Insurance paid for a replacement, due to a snapped pull cord - surely
that is simple wear and tear? Also an easy DIY repair.

Sorry - brain fade; I forgot to mention it was stolen, post-cord-replacement.

On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 11:19:13 +0100, The Other Mike
wrote:

I can't recall what UK site has (or had) an electric rather than steam driven
main boiler feed pump

I can now

Inverkip

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverkip_power_station

--

On Thu, 31 May 2018 19:31:00 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 31/05/2018 17:40, David wrote:
Best mower we have had was a Harry (no longer made)

Are you sure. He insists on popping up here all the time.

Perhaps I should have said "Other Harrys are available".

Hmmm...something about having to be hand started with a couple of
determined tugs?

Whatever. :-)

Dave R

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On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass was
damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had one
before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc onto
some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they do
two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can tell,
they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but I'm
guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra two
inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have to go
up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it wouldn't
save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the smaller
model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Just noticed an electric start petrol mower in Lidl, with a B&S engine.

Possibly worth a punt.

I think it was around £130 but didn't look too closely.

Cheers


Dave R




--
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On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:37:44 +0000, David wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass was
damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc
onto some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they do
two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can tell,
they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but
I'm guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra
two inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have to
go up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it
wouldn't save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the
smaller model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Just noticed an electric start petrol mower in Lidl, with a B&S engine.

Possibly worth a punt.

I think it was around £130 but didn't look too closely.

Oops!

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/flo...-start-petrol-
mower-249-at-lidl-from-thursday-3rd-may-bs-engine-46cm-cut-large-2933373

Looks like it is £249 but that may still be a competitive price.

Cheers



Dave R





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David Wrote in message:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:37:44 +0000, David wrote:

On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass was
damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc
onto some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they do
two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can tell,
they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but
I'm guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra
two inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have to
go up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it
wouldn't save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the
smaller model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Just noticed an electric start petrol mower in Lidl, with a B&S engine.

Possibly worth a punt.

I think it was around £130 but didn't look too closely.

Oops!

https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/flo...-start-petrol-
mower-249-at-lidl-from-thursday-3rd-may-bs-engine-46cm-cut-large-2933373

Looks like it is £249 but that may still be a competitive price.


3rd of *May*. If it was any good I don't suppose there will be any
stock left.

Tim

--

On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 16:28:07 +0100, Tim+ wrote:

David Wrote in message:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 14:37:44 +0000, David wrote:

====snip====

Just noticed an electric start petrol mower in Lidl, with a B&S
engine.

Possibly worth a punt.

I think it was around £130 but didn't look too closely.

You're probably thinking of that damned Parkside PGI 1200 A1 inverter
genset. :-)


Oops!

Told ya!


https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/flo...-start-petrol-
mower-249-at-lidl-from-thursday-3rd-may-bs-engine-46cm-cut-
large-2933373

Looks like it is £249 but that may still be a competitive price.


3rd of *May*. If it was any good I don't suppose there will be any
stock left.

Never mind, if you hurry, you'll probably still be able to get hold of
one of those inverter gensets that went "on offer" today. :-)

If the extra 30 quid had represented an electric start option over the
later PGI 1200 B2 version they'd been flogging two months ago, I might
have been tempted. Personally speaking, the retro chic 1990s two stroke
720W genset styling, which I assume to be the reason for that 30 quid
price hike, just doesn't "Do It" for me.

--
Johnny B Good

On Thu, 31 May 2018 12:24:47 +0100, Stephen wrote:

Hello,

Every year I say I am going to get a new mower but never get round to
it, but I feel the time has come!

I currently have a Bosch electric mower that I have had since 2001. It
says it has an induction motor and I don't know if that's the problem.
Are these the wrong type of motors for mowers? It means it is quieter
than other mowers but it is always stalling.

The blade curves up at the end and is supposed to eject the cuttings
into a box but this never works. I thought it was because the grass
was damp that it stuck together but even now when we have had all this
sunshine, the mower clogs and the motor stalls.

Would a petrol mower be less likely to stall or clog? I've never had
one before. I like the freedom of not having any wires.

I have a front garden that does not have a lawn yet but I'm not sure
what else to do with it so it may get turfed! It is roughly 10'6" x
14'8" or 3.2m x 4.5m

The main use however would be for the back garden 18' x 41' or 5.5m x
12m approx. Though I will probably put raised beds, greenhouse, etc
onto some of this in the future.

I know Honda is well thought of for small petrol engines. I see they
do two "Izy" models: one is 16" and the other 18". From what I can
tell, they use the same engine. I was looking at ones that propelled
themselves to make it easier for me. It looks as though they only have
one speed: is that an issue? The larger mower is slightly slower but
I'm guessing that is because it weighs slightly more.

The larger mower costs £100 more. Is it really worth it for an extra
two inches? If I have done my sums right, for my garden I would have
to go up it 13 times with the 16" and 12 times with the 18", so it
wouldn't save me much time. Perhaps I should save money and buy the
smaller model? Either one is wider than my current electric one.

Thanks,
Stephen.

Petrol mowers stall then you have to start them again. Electric mowers you just ease off the work it has to do if it begins to slow down. An electric motor by it's very nature gives out more power when it runs slower. Oh and you don't have to maintain the bloody engine! I do love watching people having trouble getting them to start - they're not like cars with 4 or more cylinders. They have one cylinder, which means they never bloody start. And AFAIK they use carburettors instead of injection like modern cars. If you're old enough to remember carburettors in cars, you'll know why these should be avoided at all costs. They're like women, they get all flustered easily and flood the engine. The only advantage people claim for petrol mowers is there's no cord to get in the way. Well that isn't a problem if you have the slightest bit of common sense. You plug the mower in at the edge of the lawn (say your garage or house or whatever), then simply mow up and down the lawn
moving away from the electrical outlet. The cord just drags behind you, at no point do you ever have to shift the cord out of the way.

--
Koalas feed their young through their arse.

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
On 01/06/18 00:04, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
A universal motor used in most electric mowers is exactly the
opposite way around - lots of starting torque, but it can't
maintain speed when cutting, since a universal motor has to be
slowed much more under load to generate torque. Also a universal
motor spins way too fast, so it needs additional pulleys and belts
to run the blade at the right speed for mowing. This is a lot more
to fail - motor brushes, and the belt drive have limited life.
Generally, the build quality is way lower than induction motor
mowers and the efficiency lower, so needs a higher power rating
for same width cut (and motor runs much hotter, which also doesn't
help the longevity).

This is all utter codswallop.

A properly designed and near 'perfect' motor will genee maximum torque
one RPM below 'free runnimng'

What technology is your mystical motor?

Max torque for an induction motor is at 25% slip (which is
around 80% free running speed), but you don't design for that
high a load because you are too near to stalling.
Normal max design slip is 20% slip (around 85% free running speed).
This is why it's perfect for cutting grass - max torque is still
at a high enough speed to cut grass.

Max torque for a universal motor is locked rotor (stalled, stationary).
In the normal region of operation where speed is high enough
to cut grass, the motor's torque is lowest, which makes maintaining
that grass cutting speed under load much less likely. The motor is
unlikely to completely stall because the torque gets very high as
it gets close, but the torque is low at minimum effective cutting
speed, so it easily drops below effective cutting speed with load,
and thus not so suitable for grass cutting.

Induction motors are crap really for serious power. Obnce they lose
synchronism, they are useless.

Hum, maybe you are confusing induction motors with synchronous
motors, used for old mains clocks and timeswitches?

Serious power motors are *exclusively* induction motors - no
other type is used.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 22:00:16 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

====snip====


Serious power motors are *exclusively* induction motors - no other type
is used.

Correction: Serious (industrial) power motors are *exclusively* *Three
Phase* induction motors. :-)

--
Johnny B Good

On 01/06/18 23:54, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jun 2018 22:00:16 +0000, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

====snip====


Serious power motors are *exclusively* induction motors - no other type
is used.

Correction: Serious (industrial) power motors are *exclusively* *Three
Phase* induction motors. :-)

Yes but they aren't driven directly from 50Hz.

So the disadvantages of fixed frequency working dont apply.



--
Of what good are dead warriors? €¦ Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory €¦ The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

Harry Bloomfield used his keyboard to write :
Or it could just be very tough grass and never throughly dries out. We have a
few inches of soil, under which is very heavy clay. It used to flood in heavy
rain, but I put in lots of drainage to try to help prevent it. It usually
needs a week of dry warm weather, even in the summer, before it is fit to try
to cut it - so sometimes it just has to be left uncut. The first cut of 2018
was very delayed by the wet weather.

...and just to confirm it is not just me...

We are away in the caravan in a three acre field. When we arrived the
farmer had just given up on trying to mow it, because his full size
tractor / mower was constantly choking up with cuttings.

Harry Bloomfield Wrote in message:
Harry Bloomfield used his keyboard to write :
Or it could just be very tough grass and never throughly dries out. We have a
few inches of soil, under which is very heavy clay. It used to flood in heavy
rain, but I put in lots of drainage to try to help prevent it. It usually
needs a week of dry warm weather, even in the summer, before it is fit to try
to cut it - so sometimes it just has to be left uncut. The first cut of 2018
was very delayed by the wet weather.

..and just to confirm it is not just me...

We are away in the caravan in a three acre field. When we arrived the
farmer had just given up on trying to mow it, because his full size
tractor / mower was constantly choking up with cuttings.


If it meant more money he'd find a way to make it work ;-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Jim K presented the following explanation :
If it meant more money he'd find a way to make it work ;-)

I found a way to make it work - get off, stop the PTO and poke it clear
with a long stick lol

It is tedious doing mine that way, but I can understand it becoming a
real chore with 3 acres to cut.