Hi
I have a Peugeot 207 2009 1.6 Diesel that's done about 128,000 miles.
It just passed its MoT today with normal results for emissions.
After about 20 miles (30-70 mph) it lost power and the message "anti
pollution fault" flashed on the display. I was forced to stop, waited a
bit, then restarted.
The ECU warning light is on but performance seems normal. I drove
another 10 miles without issue (except the warning light is still on).

I've Googled the problem and the fault can be caused by a variety of
issues, but I'd like to know if the MoT was just a coincidence or is
there something done in this test that could've caused damage? Ramming a
sensor up the exhaust for example.

Thanks for any comments.

"Grumps" wrote in message
news
Hi
I have a Peugeot 207 2009 1.6 Diesel that's done about 128,000 miles.
It just passed its MoT today with normal results for emissions.
After about 20 miles (30-70 mph) it lost power and the message "anti
pollution fault" flashed on the display. I was forced to stop, waited a
bit, then restarted.
The ECU warning light is on but performance seems normal. I drove another
10 miles without issue (except the warning light is still on).

I've Googled the problem and the fault can be caused by a variety of
issues, but I'd like to know if the MoT was just a coincidence or is there
something done in this test that could've caused damage? Ramming a sensor
up the exhaust for example.

I have a Pug 308 1.6 HDi, so the same engine. I've had it give Anti
Pollution Fault a couple of times. One time it was because a "pouch" of
"additive" (possibly something akin to AdBlue used by buses and HGVs) had
ruptured and so the engine wasn't receiving the additive. That was a couple
of hundred quid to be fixed. The other time was the diesel particulate
filter that had stopped working properly. I did all the normal things, like
running for a while in a lower gear than normal to get the engine revving
fast, in the hope that this would trigger the burning-off of soot which
happens routinely. But this was to no avail, so I had to have a new DPF and
a new cat - the latter because when they removed the DPF, the nut on the new
DPF stripped the thread on the cat as it was being tightened (in fairness,
the cat was of an age where it should have been replaced anyway). That
little lot cost a grand :-(

The same thing happened to be last week: Anti Pollution Fault message and
severe loss of power - it was a struggle to get the car above 40 and that
dropped to about 20 on a long gradual hill. I booked the car into the local
Pug garage, and then something made me look under the bonnet. And I found...
the outlet hose from the turbo to the inlet manifold had come off! It was
about two minutes' work (one of which was finding a screwdriver) to loosen
the jubilee clip, refit the hose and tighten the clip securely. I knew
within about a hundred yards of driving that normal service had been
resumed. I wonder whether the garage may not have properly re-tightened the
hose when they were doing work on the car (a fuel-starvation problem which
needed new glowplugs and a new fuel-pressure sensor) a couple of months
earlier...

The moral of this last tale is that even after you rectify the fault that is
causing the error, it takes several cycles of start-run-stop before the
warning and engine management light go out spontaneously. So you *might*
find that the fault goes away of its own accord - maybe something they did
during the test triggered the fault and it's taking its time to clear. Or
you may need to get it looked at. I'd suggest using a non-Pug garage first
of all, because they usually charge less for using their diagnostic tool
that plugs into the engine management unit, whereas the Pug garage wanted to
charge me £120 even to diagnose, before they even started to fix. I wonder
whether they would have done that if I'd taken the car in with the hose
detached - it would have been an interesting "gotcha" test for a TV
programme or motoring magazine article to rig a car like this and sort out
the honest from the unscrupulous ;-)

On 17/05/2018 20:46, NY wrote:
"Grumps" wrote in message
news
Hi
I have a Peugeot 207 2009 1.6 Diesel that's done about 128,000 miles.
It just passed its MoT today with normal results for emissions.
After about 20 miles (30-70 mph) it lost power and the message "anti
pollution fault" flashed on the display. I was forced to stop, waited
a bit, then restarted.
The ECU warning light is on but performance seems normal. I drove
another 10 miles without issue (except the warning light is still on).

I've Googled the problem and the fault can be caused by a variety of
issues, but I'd like to know if the MoT was just a coincidence or is
there something done in this test that could've caused damage? Ramming
a sensor up the exhaust for example.

I have a Pug 308 1.6 HDi, so the same engine. I've had it give Anti
Pollution Fault a couple of times. One time it was because a "pouch" of
"additive" (possibly something akin to AdBlue used by buses and HGVs)
had ruptured and so the engine wasn't receiving the additive. That was a
couple of hundred quid to be fixed. The other time was the diesel
particulate filter that had stopped working properly. I did all the
normal things, like running for a while in a lower gear than normal to
get the engine revving fast, in the hope that this would trigger the
burning-off of soot which happens routinely. But this was to no avail,
so I had to have a new DPF and a new cat - the latter because when they
removed the DPF, the nut on the new DPF stripped the thread on the cat
as it was being tightened (in fairness, the cat was of an age where it
should have been replaced anyway). That little lot cost a grand :-(

The same thing happened to be last week: Anti Pollution Fault message
and severe loss of power - it was a struggle to get the car above 40 and
that dropped to about 20 on a long gradual hill. I booked the car into
the local Pug garage, and then something made me look under the bonnet.
And I found... the outlet hose from the turbo to the inlet manifold had
come off! It was about two minutes' work (one of which was finding a
screwdriver) to loosen the jubilee clip, refit the hose and tighten the
clip securely. I knew within about a hundred yards of driving that
normal service had been resumed. I wonder whether the garage may not
have properly re-tightened the hose when they were doing work on the car
(a fuel-starvation problem which needed new glowplugs and a new
fuel-pressure sensor) a couple of months earlier...

The moral of this last tale is that even after you rectify the fault
that is causing the error, it takes several cycles of start-run-stop
before the warning and engine management light go out spontaneously. So
you *might* find that the fault goes away of its own accord - maybe
something they did during the test triggered the fault and it's taking
its time to clear. Or you may need to get it looked at. I'd suggest
using a non-Pug garage first of all, because they usually charge less
for using their diagnostic tool that plugs into the engine management
unit, whereas the Pug garage wanted to charge me £120 even to diagnose,
before they even started to fix. I wonder whether they would have done
that if I'd taken the car in with the hose detached - it would have been
an interesting "gotcha" test for a TV programme or motoring magazine
article to rig a car like this and sort out the honest from the
unscrupulous ;-)


That's an interesting series of events. Thanks for sharing.
Do they actually take anything apart when doing an MoT, to insert
emission test probes etc?

"Grumps" wrote in message
news
That's an interesting series of events. Thanks for sharing.

Glad to help. I like my Pug and will be sorry when it eventually becomes too
expensive to maintain. The acceleration, even in a 10-year-old car that's
done 170,000 miles, is superb - especially for the crucial 0-30 when you're
pulling out of a side road or 50-80 when you've got stuck behind a lorry on
a motorway and then need to get up to the speed of the fast-approaching car
in Lane 2 when you pull out. My wife has a Honda CRV and while its 0-60 is
great, it's got horrendous turbo lag accelerating at intermediate speeds and
it needs a *much* lower gear than mine to negotiate roundabouts and turns
into side roads or to go up hills. She drives her car to work one week and
mine the next, to avoid putting too much mileage on hers, and always
comments "Gosh, Pug is very lively - just a shame he doesn't have satnav and
hands-free mobile phone".

I preferred the ride, dashboard and especially seats of my previous 306
(Meridian with half-leather seats), but it got to the expensive-to-maintain
stage where it was one thing after another. Mind you, it was old enough not
to have all this DPF and anti-pollution ******** which has been the main
thing over the past few years that the 308 has kept having to go into the
garage for.

It's just dawned on me: 308-Pug is still on its original clutch. I don't
think I've ever had a clutch last that long. Even if this one's bite point
is getting rather close to the top of the pedal travel, there's still no
sign of slippage under heavy load.

Do they actually take anything apart when doing an MoT, to insert emission
test probes etc?

As far as I know, they only monitor exhaust gases at the tailpipe. I've
never seen my own car MOTed, but often when I went to my local garage to
book a service or MOT I've seen them testing other cars and they simply had
a probe-on-a-hose that they shoved up the car's arsehole while someone else
revved the engine to a set speed - there was a dialogue of "nearly there -
right, I'm doing 1000 revs now" between the driver and the probe tester.

On 17/05/2018 20:49, Grumps wrote:

That's an interesting series of events. Thanks for sharing.
Do they actually take anything apart when doing an MoT, to insert
emission test probes etc?

They don't take anything apart.
However there is a warning displayed that they rev the engine and that
sometimes they break (if they haven't been serviced properly?).
I expect that to be mechanical bits not the sensors though.

"NY" wrote in message
...
"Grumps" wrote in message
news
That's an interesting series of events. Thanks for sharing.

Glad to help. I like my Pug and will be sorry when it eventually becomes
too expensive to maintain. The acceleration, even in a 10-year-old car
that's done 170,000 miles, is superb - especially for the crucial 0-30
when you're pulling out of a side road or 50-80 when you've got stuck
behind a lorry on a motorway and then need to get up to the speed of the
fast-approaching car in Lane 2 when you pull out. My wife has a Honda CRV
and while its 0-60 is great, it's got horrendous turbo lag accelerating at
intermediate speeds and it needs a *much* lower gear than mine to
negotiate roundabouts and turns into side roads or to go up hills. She
drives her car to work one week and mine the next, to avoid putting too
much mileage on hers, and always comments "Gosh, Pug is very lively - just
a shame he doesn't have satnav and hands-free mobile phone".

I preferred the ride, dashboard and especially seats of my previous 306
(Meridian with half-leather seats), but it got to the
expensive-to-maintain stage where it was one thing after another. Mind
you, it was old enough not to have all this DPF and anti-pollution
******** which has been the main thing over the past few years that the
308 has kept having to go into the garage for.

It's just dawned on me: 308-Pug is still on its original clutch. I don't
think I've ever had a clutch last that long.

I have, my 73 Golf never had a replacement and I only replaced
it in 2006 because I had been stupid enough to not fix the known
windscreen leak that eventually rusted a hole in the floor.

The Fiat 500 I inherited from what used to be called
my maiden aunt never needed a new clutch either.
http://www.modelocoche.com/fotos/576...0-b-202629.jpg

Even if this one's bite point is getting rather close to the top of the
pedal travel, there's still no sign of slippage under heavy load.

Do they actually take anything apart when doing an MoT, to insert
emission test probes etc?

As far as I know, they only monitor exhaust gases at the tailpipe. I've
never seen my own car MOTed, but often when I went to my local garage to
book a service or MOT I've seen them testing other cars and they simply
had a probe-on-a-hose that they shoved up the car's arsehole while someone
else revved the engine to a set speed - there was a dialogue of "nearly
there - right, I'm doing 1000 revs now" between the driver and the probe
tester.

On 17/05/2018 22:00, dennis@home wrote:
On 17/05/2018 20:49, Grumps wrote:

That's an interesting series of events. Thanks for sharing.
Do they actually take anything apart when doing an MoT, to insert
emission test probes etc?

They don't take anything apart.
However there is a warning displayed that they rev the engine and that
sometimes they break (if they haven't been serviced properly?).
I expect that to be mechanical bits not the sensors though.

Isn't that a warning about revving and possible cambelt failures?

Well maybe you need to go back and get the thing tested as although
coincidences occur, there are often cause and effect issues involved. Of
course it could be that a plug or sensor is doing daft things. I do not know
what they remove in such tests these days.
Brian

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"Grumps" wrote in message
news
Hi
I have a Peugeot 207 2009 1.6 Diesel that's done about 128,000 miles.
It just passed its MoT today with normal results for emissions.
After about 20 miles (30-70 mph) it lost power and the message "anti
pollution fault" flashed on the display. I was forced to stop, waited a
bit, then restarted.
The ECU warning light is on but performance seems normal. I drove another
10 miles without issue (except the warning light is still on).

I've Googled the problem and the fault can be caused by a variety of
issues, but I'd like to know if the MoT was just a coincidence or is there
something done in this test that could've caused damage? Ramming a sensor
up the exhaust for example.

Thanks for any comments.

On Thu, 17 May 2018 18:33:28 +0100, Grumps wrote:

Hi I have a Peugeot 207 2009 1.6 Diesel that's done about 128,000 miles.
It just passed its MoT today with normal results for emissions.
After about 20 miles (30-70 mph) it lost power and the message "anti
pollution fault" flashed on the display. I was forced to stop, waited a
bit, then restarted.
The ECU warning light is on but performance seems normal. I drove
another 10 miles without issue (except the warning light is still on).

I've Googled the problem and the fault can be caused by a variety of
issues, but I'd like to know if the MoT was just a coincidence or is
there something done in this test that could've caused damage? Ramming a
sensor up the exhaust for example.

Thanks for any comments.

It might be worth buying your own fault code reader.
I would suggest asking around on the Pug forums to find the best one, but
if the main dealer charges £120 just to read the codes this gives you a
budget target to break even on first use.

I am assuming the message is equivalent to the "engine warning light"
which can be triggered by any number of things from a failed sensor to
abnormal readings from a sensor. Gives you a "heads up" on what the engine
thinks is wrong.

I bought an expensive one for my VW and it also highlights things which
don't trigger the warning light, such as aircon sensor failures and GPS
aerial issues. VCDS is over £200 but IMHO worth every penny.


Cheers



Dave R


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On 18/05/2018 09:32, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well maybe you need to go back and get the thing tested as although
coincidences occur, there are often cause and effect issues involved. Of
course it could be that a plug or sensor is doing daft things. I do not know
what they remove in such tests these days.
Brian

Apparently they didn't remove anything for the test. As dennis said, all
they do is shove a pipe up its bottom to measure emissions, and rev it a
lot.

My local garage has read the codes and there are no sensor faults
logged. They did find the original fault "anti pollution fault" and
another to do with the glow plug relay.
They also said that the turbo hose was so clogged it would have a
serious impact.
Also, the oil and fuel filters need changing as the car has not had a
service for about 35,000 miles (just oil top ups).

Thanks David. I think I will get a code reader - for next time. Do these
devices allow real-time viewing of engine parameters?

On Fri, 18 May 2018 11:10:02 +0100, Grumps wrote:


They also said that the turbo hose was so clogged it would have a
serious impact.

A hose that usually passes the entire airflow requirements of the engine is
'clogged' ?

--

On 18/05/2018 12:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2018 11:10:02 +0100, Grumps wrote:


They also said that the turbo hose was so clogged it would have a
serious impact.

A hose that usually passes the entire airflow requirements of the engine is
'clogged' ?

Apparently so. But I will take a look a bit later.

"The Other Mike" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 May 2018 11:10:02 +0100, Grumps wrote:


They also said that the turbo hose was so clogged it would have a
serious impact.

A hose that usually passes the entire airflow requirements of the engine
is
'clogged' ?

That sounds scary. What is the hose clogged with? I can't imagine anything
large like leaves getting through the turbo, and the air filter should block
dust/dirt, because you really don't want that contaminating the oil film on
the inside of the cylinders. If the output from the turbo to the engine
comes off (as mine did - see earlier in the thread) all manner of crud can
get in. I'm not sure what sequence the turbo and air filter are in relation
to engine - probably air filter - turbo - inlet manifold, to keep crud out
of the turbo as well as the engine, so if the turbo-to-manifold hose comes
off, that's after the filter...

On 18/05/2018 12:31, Grumps wrote:
On 18/05/2018 12:24, The Other Mike wrote:
On Fri, 18 May 2018 11:10:02 +0100, Grumps wrote:


They also said that the turbo hose was so clogged it would have a
serious impact.

A hose that usually passes the entire airflow requirements of the
engine is
'clogged' ?

Apparently so. But I will take a look a bit later.

Hmm. The hose in question is a very short flexible rubber air intake
hose. It doesn't look like what a new one does.
I was told by the mechanic that it sounded like the engine was
"struggling to breathe".
I now have to consider whether:
a) he was talking truthfully in his opinion, or
b) maybe changing that hose and a full service would make things better.

My other local garage is worse

On 18/05/2018 11:10, Grumps wrote:


Thanks David. I think I will get a code reader - for next time. Do these
devices allow real-time viewing of engine parameters?


If you have Android smart phone look up the Torque App. The phone/app
can connect directly to a £10 OBD II adapter to provide real time
information.

https://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Main_Page

A random Youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt_W3aZbjGs

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On 17/05/2018 18:33, Grumps wrote:
Hi
I have a Peugeot 207 2009 1.6 Diesel that's done about 128,000 miles.
It just passed its MoT today with normal results for emissions.
After about 20 miles (30-70 mph) it lost power and the message "anti
pollution fault" flashed on the display. I was forced to stop, waited a
bit, then restarted.
The ECU warning light is on but performance seems normal. I drove
another 10 miles without issue (except the warning light is still on).

I've Googled the problem and the fault can be caused by a variety of
issues, but I'd like to know if the MoT was just a coincidence or is
there something done in this test that could've caused damage? Ramming a
sensor up the exhaust for example.

Thanks for any comments.
I think it most likely you had a fault before that has been exposed by
the revving for the smoke test. You'll need to get a code reader on it.

On 18/05/2018 13:39, alan_m wrote:
On 18/05/2018 11:10, Grumps wrote:


Thanks David. I think I will get a code reader - for next time. Do
these devices allow real-time viewing of engine parameters?


If you have Android smart phone look up the Torque App.Â* The phone/app
can connect directly to a £10 OBD II adapter to provide real time
information.

https://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Main_Page

A random Youtube video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt_W3aZbjGs

Ta.
I've been looking at these devices now.
Some units state that they work with Peugeot/Citroen for example, and
they support more functions than straight ODB2 - that's how I read it
anyway. They will also work on any ODB2 system, but apparently have
features specific to that car manufacturer that normal ODB2 tools don't
support.
Would car manufacturers have their own specific protocol that standard
ODB2 units wouldn't be compatible with?

E.g. I have been looking at an iCarsoft i820 and i970. The i820 is a
standard ODB2 unit, whereas the i970 can do ODB2 but also seems to be
for Pug/Cit.

I've seen those really cheap bluetooth units. Even one at £2.99! Can
they really be as good as a unit costing £60-100?

On Fri, 18 May 2018 16:17:24 +0100, Grumps wrote:

On 18/05/2018 13:39, alan_m wrote:
On 18/05/2018 11:10, Grumps wrote:


Thanks David. I think I will get a code reader - for next time. Do
these devices allow real-time viewing of engine parameters?


If you have Android smart phone look up the Torque App.Â* The phone/app
can connect directly to a £10 OBD II adapter to provide real time
information.

https://torque-bhp.com/wiki/Main_Page

A random Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt_W3aZbjGs

Ta.
I've been looking at these devices now.
Some units state that they work with Peugeot/Citroen for example, and
they support more functions than straight ODB2 - that's how I read it
anyway. They will also work on any ODB2 system, but apparently have
features specific to that car manufacturer that normal ODB2 tools don't
support.
Would car manufacturers have their own specific protocol that standard
ODB2 units wouldn't be compatible with?

E.g. I have been looking at an iCarsoft i820 and i970. The i820 is a
standard ODB2 unit, whereas the i970 can do ODB2 but also seems to be
for Pug/Cit.

I've seen those really cheap bluetooth units. Even one at £2.99! Can
they really be as good as a unit costing £60-100?

I have a bog standard BlueTooth ODB II reader.
It could read most things on my 2001 Fiat Ducato.
It could read very little on my 1996/7 Volvo 850. You needed Volvo
specific software.

When I read the fora on the Touareg it was pretty obvious that VW have
their own set of fault codes, and there are quite a large number of
"intelligent" devices on the CAN bus which are vehicle or manufacturer
specific.

So usually best to get one which has software designed for your specific
vehicle.

If you are trying to save £120 per visit then spending a bit more is often
justified.

Also beware of cloned hardware and software. Some software manufacturers
check that the hardware is theirs before allowing it to work, and also
before accepting any software updates. £2.99 suggests that not a lot of
investment was made in the production and even less in support.

Cheers



Dave R


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On 18/05/2018 16:49, David wrote:
£2.99 suggests that not a lot of
investment was made in the production and even less in support.

£2.99 and over a million people have paid for it.

The OP is not trying to upgrade software just read the codes and any
real time output from the ECU

Torque works with Try Torque for free and see what you get. The free (lite) version does
all the basic stuff and has over 5 million downloads. Add plugins by the
same author such as Torquescan.

In use when you get a fault code you also get a link into the WWW that
can give you clues to what may be going wrong.

At one time a lot of OBD II information was freely available on the Net
but the car manufactures cracked down on the "illegal" publication of
their data and many of the sites disappeared. This is probably the
reason that main dealers can still charge £100+ for plugging in their
diagnostic equipment to read fault codes.

Not necessarily OBD software, but some of the better software packages
available are actually free to download and use. You can make a
contribution if you wish but it's not compulsory.

If you own a Ford/Mazda then for real time monitoring I recommend
ForScan - again free.

http://www.forscan.org/home.html




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