Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


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I never had much luck with those either, they bloomin well have such short
bits of pencil lead they kept on falling out.

Would it not be easier to buy a decent sacrificial pencil and a good
sharpener?
Brian

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"David" wrote in message
...
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


There are several styles, here is a 2 mm one where you use an external
sharpener to create a point

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faber-Caste.../dp/B0007OECAS

I quite like the Pentel 0.9 mm which I use with 2B leads for marking up
draft reports and writing on engineering drawings, this is OK for
"delicate" woodwork but not suitable for studwork, etc.

On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:13:17 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On 6 Apr 2018 15:45:19 GMT, David wrote:

Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R

Shirley the thickness of the lead in a PP is defined by the size of the
hole through which it's propelled. If you mean hardness, then I note
that many carpenters' pencils are 2H.

Ummmm....yes.

However I am trying to ask which sized hole I should opt for.

That defines the thickness of the lead, as you so astutely noted. :-)

Carpenters pencils are normally thicker than school kids pencils but
sharpen down.

So what is the best thickness for marking up?

Cheers


Dave R

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On 4/6/2018 4:45 PM, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


use a grinder

--
Resistance is not futile ...

On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:15:09 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


There are several styles, here is a 2 mm one where you use an external
sharpener to create a point

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faber-Caste...tch-Pencil/dp/
B0007OECAS

I quite like the Pentel 0.9 mm which I use with 2B leads for marking up
draft reports and writing on engineering drawings, this is OK for
"delicate" woodwork but not suitable for studwork, etc.

Thanks.

So larger than 0.9 mm.

Some "Art" pencils go up to 5 mm which seems a bit large.

I'm just considering this as an option.

I'm also lusting after a spiral pencil sharpener that I remember from
school yeah these many moons ago. A quick twiz and the pencil was pointy
again.

So good and fun that we had to be threatened to stop us endlessly
sharpening pencils and watching them being eaten by the machine. :-)

One issue with a pencil sharpener would be finding one that would fit the
oval carpenters pencils.

Which brings us back to propelling pencils. :-)


Cheers


Dave R

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David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Cant advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does 5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:36:09 +0100, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

On 4/6/2018 4:45 PM, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


use a grinder

Angle or smart phone App?



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On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:37:42 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Cant advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does 5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Tim

:-)

Yes, I did some research before asking the question.


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David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:37:42 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Cant advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does 5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Tim

:-)

Yes, I did some research before asking the question.



I would just buy one and try it. Gotta be a reason why carpenters pencils
are so big.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 06/04/2018 17:36, David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:15:09 +0100, newshound wrote:

One issue with a pencil sharpener would be finding one that would fit the
oval carpenters pencils.


https://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-ste...FUVsGwodb40CrA

On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:15:09 +0100, newshound wrote:

I quite like the Pentel 0.9 mm which I use with 2B leads for marking up
draft reports and writing on engineering drawings, this is OK for
"delicate" woodwork but not suitable for studwork, etc.

I have one of these (for non DIY use), and the matching chromed ball pen:

https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/CL54321...ical-pencil-07

Might appeal to DIYers anyway!

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

David explained on 06/04/2018 :
One issue with a pencil sharpener would be finding one that would fit the
oval carpenters pencils.

A bench grinder works well :-)

On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 18:08:47 +0100
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

David explained on 06/04/2018 :
One issue with a pencil sharpener would be finding one that would
fit the oval carpenters pencils.

A bench grinder works well :-)

But I expect not as well as a belt or disc sander.

On 6 Apr 2018 15:45:19 GMT
David wrote:

Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

I have a clutch pencil (rather than "propelling") with approx 2mm lead
that withstands vigorous use quite well (and has a sharpener in the
other end). Not sure how well it would work on rough sawn timber, but
for that I might strike a line with a knife to make it easier for the
pencil.

On 06/04/2018 17:15, newshound wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

There are several styles, here is a 2 mm one where you use an external
sharpener to create a point

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faber-Caste.../dp/B0007OECAS

I haven't seen one of them for years - most mechanical pencils are the
kind where pressing the end advances the (thin) lead by a fixed amount.

Presumably the OP is using the term "propelling pencil" in a loose way
to refer to any kind of mechanical pencil. True propelling pencils you
screw to end to advance the lead - usually the lead is loose as there is
no clutch.

--
Max Demian

On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


I think mine are 0.5mm (and about HB - they're mostly hotel freebies),
but it depends on the surface and the accuracy you want. For marking on
planed hardwood or plaster then 0.5mm seems OK, for sawn timber you
probably want something a little bigger, and maybe softer. If you go
larger than 1mm then either accuracy will be a little, errr, inaccurate
or you'll need to sharpen.

On 06/04/2018 17:30, David wrote:

So what is the best thickness for marking up?

A marking knife?

If its just first/second fix a biro will do.

On 06/04/2018 17:44, Tim+ wrote:
David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:37:42 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Cant advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does 5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Tim

:-)

Yes, I did some research before asking the question.



I would just buy one and try it. Gotta be a reason why carpenters pencils
are so big.

I thought that they were just normal thickness, but wider to stop them
rolling away.

SteveW

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 00:05:34 UTC+1, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/04/2018 17:44, Tim+ wrote:
David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:37:42 +0000, Tim+ wrote:
David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Cant advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does 5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Tim

:-)

Yes, I did some research before asking the question.



I would just buy one and try it. Gotta be a reason why carpenters pencils
are so big.

I thought that they were just normal thickness, but wider to stop them
rolling away.

SteveW

I thought it was so they could charge more. Ordinary pencils work fine, but I'd recommend sharpening them to a shorter blunter tip for robustness, so using a sander or if necessary a knife.

And felt tips, when their fatness is ok, clean off.


NT

In article ,
David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

The reason for a carpenter's pencil is the lead can be reasonably strong
but with a sharp chisel point to draw a thin line. A thick lead in a
propelling pencil would need sharpening to give a thin line.

--
*A bartender is just a pharmacist with a limited inventory *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 00:34:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
David wrote:

Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

The reason for a carpenter's pencil is the lead can be reasonably strong
but with a sharp chisel point to draw a thin line. A thick lead in a
propelling pencil would need sharpening to give a thin line.

An ordinary pencil with the same tip shape has a stronger 'lead' as wood is stronger than graphite. But being a narrower tip the standard pencil dulls quicker. The main body of the carpenter's pencil is more robust, but that's minor. If you use them all day, day after day then no doubt it's worth getting the carpenter's ones. I never lack ordinary pencils so don't bother, there's no significant upside.


NT

On Friday, 6 April 2018 16:45:23 UTC+1, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

What you want is a "clutch pencil". They often incorporate a sharpener.
Thicker leads are less likely to break.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_pencil

http://www.pencils4artists.co.uk/fab...6b-c2x22173309

In article ,
wrote:
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 00:34:19 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , David
wrote:

Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

The reason for a carpenter's pencil is the lead can be reasonably
strong but with a sharp chisel point to draw a thin line. A thick lead
in a propelling pencil would need sharpening to give a thin line.

An ordinary pencil with the same tip shape has a stronger 'lead' as wood
is stronger than graphite. But being a narrower tip the standard pencil
dulls quicker. The main body of the carpenter's pencil is more robust,
but that's minor.

[Snip]

They also don't roll away out of reach

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"David" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:36:09 +0100, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

On 4/6/2018 4:45 PM, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


use a grinder

Angle or smart phone App?



I know nothing of the app you talk of ......

David Wrote in message:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


--
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Hi David

You talk about doing marking up work. Is this to make changes to
printed drawings, or for scribing lines on timber?

If it's for writing or redrawing on paper plans, take a look at
the Pentel Automatic Pencil.
Being a draughtsman and having started on the drawing board I have
been using these for years.
My weapon of choice is the 0.7mm version, anything finer and you
will break the leads too frequently while writing/drawing. The
0.9mm is probably also worth considering. Anything larger and
you are getting into impressionist artist territory.

The other decision is the lead grade. This is a personal choice,
but if you go too soft again you risk drifting into the realms of
the artist. To maintain some technical credibility I suggest you
try B grade leads to start and see how you go.

For info, technical drawings on film were created using the Pentel
pens/leads most recently. For this the 0.5mm would be used for
outline work and the 0.3mm for centre lines, hidden detail and
dimensions.
If we still used pencils rather than computers for engineering
drawing, the HSE would probably have us wearing safety glasses,
as the harder grade leads used to break and send shards
flying.

Phil

--


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http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:13:17 +0100, Chris Hogg wrote:

On 6 Apr 2018 15:45:19 GMT, David wrote:

Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R

Shirley the thickness of the lead in a PP is defined by the size of
the hole through which it's propelled. If you mean hardness, then I
note that many carpenters' pencils are 2H.

Yes, I've two 2H propelling pencils. One is decades old; the other old one
broke irreperably so I bought a good one - £12 (!) but worth it. They take
1.8mm leads and have sharpeners built in.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

wrote in message
...

An ordinary pencil with the same tip shape has a stronger 'lead' as wood is stronger
than graphite.

You can't get ordinary pencils with the same tip shape as a carpenter's pencil.
That's the whole point(NPI). Next off, you'll be claiming you can get pencils
with the same tip shape as a tailor's chalk. (Triangular pieces of chalk with
three sharp edges)

The lead in a carpenters pencil is oblong like the shaft of a miniature chisel,
and as with chisels and tailors chalks its sharpened to an edge, not a point.

How you keep the edge sharp is another matter. Possibly as with chisels
you can create two angles. A shallow "grinding" angle created when you pare
away the wood and a more acute "honing" angle which is topped up by regularly
rubbing the two sides on a stone as you go.

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.


michael adams

....

michael adams wrote:

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.

A chisel shape actually wears better than a point, and maintains
the line width better. Maybe it is better visualised as a wide
point.

Back before the ubiquitous 0.5, 0.7, 0.9 clutch pencils became
common, and technical drawings were still done on actual paper
(or drafting film), we were taught to sharpen our 4H pencils in a
chisel shape so that we got a consistent and dense line, which
was necessary for the copying methods of that era. I may still
have one in a pencil pot somewhere.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Chris J Dixon" wrote in message
...
michael adams wrote:

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.

A chisel shape actually wears better than a point, and maintains
the line width better. Maybe it is better visualised as a wide
point.

Back before the ubiquitous 0.5, 0.7, 0.9 clutch pencils became
common, and technical drawings were still done on actual paper
(or drafting film), we were taught to sharpen our 4H pencils in a
chisel shape so that we got a consistent and dense line, which
was necessary for the copying methods of that era. I may still
have one in a pencil pot somewhere.

I'm more familiar with ruling pens and rapidographs myself.
But if a pencil is sharpened to a chisel point then presumably
the pencil can't be rotated as this would alter the width of
the line. Digging deep I seem to remember mechanical pencils
with a triangular grip somewhere along the shaft, presumably
this was the point (again NPI) of that particular design.
I also now remeber triangular section wooden pencils possibly
so designed for the same reason. I remember at the time
I thought they were freebies from some sort of marketing
exercise.


michael adams

....

Chris J Dixon Wrote in message:
michael adams wrote:

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.

A chisel shape actually wears better than a point, and maintains
the line width better. Maybe it is better visualised as a wide
point.

Back before the ubiquitous 0.5, 0.7, 0.9 clutch pencils became
common, and technical drawings were still done on actual paper
(or drafting film), we were taught to sharpen our 4H pencils in a
chisel shape so that we got a consistent and dense line, which
was necessary for the copying methods of that era. I may still
have one in a pencil pot somewhere.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.


4h sounds harsh. ISTR 2h on the chisel point clutch pencil and
even that threatening to cut through the film at
times.

Phil
--


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 07/04/18 10:14, Chris J Dixon wrote:
Back before the ubiquitous 0.5, 0.7, 0.9 clutch pencils became
common, and technical drawings were still done on actual paper
(or drafting film), we were taught to sharpen our 4H pencils in a
chisel shape so that we got a consistent and dense line, which
was necessary for the copying methods of that era. I may still
have one in a pencil pot somewhere.

We were taught to use Rotring ink pens instead.


--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

The point of a chisel tip is that it can be narrow enough to be accurate
along a rule or square, without breaking because its so slender.




--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On 07/04/2018 00:05, Steve Walker wrote:
On 06/04/2018 17:44, Tim+ wrote:
David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:37:42 +0000, Tim+ wrote David wrote:

Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Cant advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does
5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Yes, I did some research before asking the question.

I would just buy one and try it. Gotta be a reason why carpenters pencils
are so big.

I thought that they were just normal thickness, but wider to stop them
rolling away.

The ones I've seen have an oval cross section and a rectangular lead,
presumably so they can make a nice thin line without wearing down too
quickly.

--
Max Demian

On 06/04/2018 20:25, wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


I think mine are 0.5mm (and about HB - they're mostly hotel freebies),
but it depends on the surface and the accuracy you want. For marking on
planed hardwood or plaster then 0.5mm seems OK, for sawn timber you
probably want something a little bigger, and maybe softer. If you go
larger than 1mm then either accuracy will be a little, errr, inaccurate
or you'll need to sharpen.
I lied, mine are 0.7mm.

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 09:56:32 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

An ordinary pencil with the same tip shape has a stronger 'lead' as wood is stronger
than graphite.

You can't get ordinary pencils with the same tip shape as a carpenter's pencil.
That's the whole point(NPI). Next off, you'll be claiming you can get pencils
with the same tip shape as a tailor's chalk. (Triangular pieces of chalk with
three sharp edges)

The lead in a carpenters pencil is oblong like the shaft of a miniature chisel,
and as with chisels and tailors chalks its sharpened to an edge, not a point.

How you keep the edge sharp is another matter. Possibly as with chisels
you can create two angles. A shallow "grinding" angle created when you pare
away the wood and a more acute "honing" angle which is topped up by regularly
rubbing the two sides on a stone as you go.

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.


michael adams

Wake up. You trim the tip of the pencil the same way as you would a carpenter's pencil. The result is a chisel tip, it's just rather narrower so wears faster.


NT

"Steve Walker" wrote in message
news
On 06/04/2018 17:44, Tim+ wrote:
David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:37:42 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

Can't advise on thickness but if you do want a thick one, how does 5.6mm
sound?

KOH-I-NOOR 5.6mm Diameter Mechanical Clutch Lead Holder Pencil - Yellow
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B008IHL2..._Hg6XAbKQMM4TM

Tim

:-)

Yes, I did some research before asking the question.



I would just buy one and try it. Gotta be a reason why carpenters pencils
are so big.

I thought that they were just normal thickness, but wider to stop them rolling away.

SteveW


While widely believed and often suggested, for that to be true there would need to be
some reason why carpenters' pencils are more inclined to roll away than pencils used by
anyone else.

"Roofers" pencils maybe.

Because they have a chisel edge, rather than a round point they can't be picked
up and gripped just any-old-how like a normal pencil with a point. They have to be
gripped in a specific way with the chisel edge pointing along the line to be drawn.
Having an irregular shaped barrel, in whatever form makes easier to do this.

michael adams

....

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 09:56:32 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

An ordinary pencil with the same tip shape has a stronger 'lead' as wood is stronger
than graphite.

You can't get ordinary pencils with the same tip shape as a carpenter's pencil.
That's the whole point(NPI). Next off, you'll be claiming you can get pencils
with the same tip shape as a tailor's chalk. (Triangular pieces of chalk with
three sharp edges)

The lead in a carpenters pencil is oblong like the shaft of a miniature chisel,
and as with chisels and tailors chalks its sharpened to an edge, not a point.

How you keep the edge sharp is another matter. Possibly as with chisels
you can create two angles. A shallow "grinding" angle created when you pare
away the wood and a more acute "honing" angle which is topped up by regularly
rubbing the two sides on a stone as you go.

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.


michael adams

Wake up. You trim the tip of the pencil the same way as you would a carpenter's pencil.
T
the result is a chisel tip, it's just rather narrower so wears faster.

When you've finally worked out why carpenters pencils are the shape they are -
as opposed to your ludicrous suggestion that its simply a way of charging more
for them - then I might have been willing to take the odd statement you posted
a bit more seriously.

The important word there being "might".

However as I've already provided you with the real answer in another post, that offer
no longer applies.

And that's not forgetting that only the other day you made the categorical statement
that there had never been any such thing as Windows 286.

http://oldcomputermuseum.com/os/windows_286_v2.10.html

I suppose you thought that by now that would all be forgotten; and it was safe
to crawl out from under your stone, yet again


michael adams

....

On Saturday, 7 April 2018 13:15:48 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 09:56:32 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

An ordinary pencil with the same tip shape has a stronger 'lead' as wood is stronger
than graphite.

You can't get ordinary pencils with the same tip shape as a carpenter's pencil.
That's the whole point(NPI). Next off, you'll be claiming you can get pencils
with the same tip shape as a tailor's chalk. (Triangular pieces of chalk with
three sharp edges)

The lead in a carpenters pencil is oblong like the shaft of a miniature chisel,
and as with chisels and tailors chalks its sharpened to an edge, not a point.

How you keep the edge sharp is another matter. Possibly as with chisels
you can create two angles. A shallow "grinding" angle created when you pare
away the wood and a more acute "honing" angle which is topped up by regularly
rubbing the two sides on a stone as you go.

As with tailors chalks drawing lines with a chisel edge rather than with a point
presumably has advantages which aren't immediately obvious. In the case
of the former, it can't be wear as you'd imagine they'd wear out quicker.

Maybe both were in regular use before pencil sharpeners became
widely available and haven't been bettered.


michael adams

Wake up. You trim the tip of the pencil the same way as you would a carpenter's pencil.
T
the result is a chisel tip, it's just rather narrower so wears faster.

When you've finally worked out why carpenters pencils are the shape they are -
as opposed to your ludicrous suggestion that its simply a way of charging more
for them - then I might have been willing to take the odd statement you posted
a bit more seriously.

The important word there being "might".

However as I've already provided you with the real answer in another post, that offer
no longer applies.

yawn.


And that's not forgetting that only the other day you made the categorical statement
that there had never been any such thing as Windows 286.

http://oldcomputermuseum.com/os/windows_286_v2.10.html

I suppose you thought that by now that would all be forgotten; and it was safe
to crawl out from under your stone, yet again


michael adams

With respect windows in any form was not a workable option on an 8086 or 286. Everyone knew multitasking was a nice idea in principle, but Win was around for years before it actually became usable. The hardware was just too slow for a long time for _practical_ multitasking, and the very early versions of windows were bad to put it very mildly. Windows 3.0 was when people started saying hey, this is actually realistically usable, we like it.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 13:15:48 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

And that's not forgetting that only the other day you made the categorical statement
that there had never been any such thing as Windows 286.

http://oldcomputermuseum.com/os/windows_286_v2.10.html

I suppose you thought that by now that would all be forgotten; and it was safe
to crawl out from under your stone, yet again


michael adams

With respect windows in any form was not a workable option on an 8086 or 286.

With respect nothing. This is what you actually posted

wrote in message
...

odd, I don't recall a windows 286 edition.

Nor do I remember any functional version of win that was any use on a 286 PC.

As it says on the box Microsoft sold it not as an OS but as a presentation
manager sitting on top of DOS, competing with programs like Desqview.

Therefore with all due respect, whether or not it was a pile of crap as you suggest,
as you are undoubtedly aware, is contingent upon the fact, that it must have existed
in then first place.

As is shown in the picture.

QED

Your stone is over that way



michael adams

....