On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 20:20:17 +0100, Max Demian wrote:

On 06/04/2018 17:15, newshound wrote:
On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?

There are several styles, here is a 2 mm one where you use an external
sharpener to create a point

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Faber-Caste...tch-Pencil/dp/
B0007OECAS

I haven't seen one of them for years - most mechanical pencils are the
kind where pressing the end advances the (thin) lead by a fixed amount.

Presumably the OP is using the term "propelling pencil" in a loose way
to refer to any kind of mechanical pencil. True propelling pencils you
screw to end to advance the lead - usually the lead is loose as there is
no clutch.

Yes, I have used clutch pencils for decades without knowing that was what
they were called.

Long time since I saw one of the "twist" kind.


Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:54:52 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 06/04/2018 17:36, David wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:15:09 +0100, newshound wrote:

One issue with a pencil sharpener would be finding one that would fit
the oval carpenters pencils.


https://www.screwfix.com/p/forge-ste...harpener-pack-
of-12/3159C?
tc=IA3&ds_kid=92700022885064117&ds_rl=1248184&ds_r l=1245250&ds_rl=1247848&gclid=Cj0KCQjwtZzWBRD2ARIs AIPenY2KOea_7wLE59JwRqhoCD6Lkt6OGj5EIqh8CkrKu0hW9o rmuSY_KRAaAhZzEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds&dclid=CIaSjK-
OptoCFUVsGwodb40CrA

Yep - those were the pencils and that was the sharpener.

Last pencil came apart and the sharpener is buggered.

Which lead (see what I did there?) directly to this topic.


Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On Saturday, 7 April 2018 15:58:51 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 7 April 2018 13:15:48 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

And that's not forgetting that only the other day you made the categorical statement
that there had never been any such thing as Windows 286.

http://oldcomputermuseum.com/os/windows_286_v2.10.html

I suppose you thought that by now that would all be forgotten; and it was safe
to crawl out from under your stone, yet again


michael adams

With respect windows in any form was not a workable option on an 8086 or 286.

With respect nothing. This is what you actually posted

tabbypurr wrote in message
...

odd, I don't recall a windows 286 edition.

Nor do I remember any functional version of win that was any use on a 286 PC.

so to be clear I did not say there was no such version. I correctly stated that I did not recall such a version. I thought that was the case, but since this is so utterly trivial did not go and check.

As it says on the box Microsoft sold it not as an OS but as a presentation
manager sitting on top of DOS, competing with programs like Desqview.

all versions of windows ran like that at least as far as Me.


Therefore with all due respect, whether or not it was a pile of crap as you suggest,
as you are undoubtedly aware, is contingent upon the fact, that it must have existed
in then first place.

As is shown in the picture.

QED

and?

Your stone is over that way

You sure do get excited about remembering a trivial fact once in a blue moon.

On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 19:29:57 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snip

Nor do I remember any functional version of win that was any use on a 286 PC.

So, you don't remember the network Fax server that I installed that
was serving 30+ people, 24/7 and running on Windows on an Olivetti 286
wasn't fully 'functional' I'm guessing?

You probably don't remember one of my beta testers coming into my
office and shaking my hand because he was so impressed how easy /
efficient the Network Fax Server was and how much time it would save
him, FAXing all our international distributors and bigger customers?

I don't remember you having any real experience / understanding of
Windows.

Cheers, T i m

On Sunday, 8 April 2018 08:58:15 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 19:29:57 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

Nor do I remember any functional version of win that was any use on a 286 PC.

So, you don't remember the network Fax server that I installed that
was serving 30+ people, 24/7 and running on Windows on an Olivetti 286
wasn't fully 'functional' I'm guessing?

No, I wasn't there

You probably don't remember one of my beta testers coming into my
office and shaking my hand because he was so impressed how easy /
efficient the Network Fax Server was and how much time it would save
him, FAXing all our international distributors and bigger customers?

No, I wasn't there and didn't meet your beta testers.

I don't remember you having any real experience / understanding of
Windows.

Cheers, T i m

I did get to play with the early versions, but we didn't regard them as usable. A 286 or 386 has very limited cpu speed & ram, splitting that over 4 apps plus a minimal OS made the machines hopelessly slow. I don't doubt that someone's mileage varied, but for us they were only gimmicks.


NT

On 06/04/2018 18:51, Rob Morley wrote:
On Fri, 06 Apr 2018 18:08:47 +0100
Harry Bloomfield wrote:

David explained on 06/04/2018 :
One issue with a pencil sharpener would be finding one that would
fit the oval carpenters pencils.

A bench grinder works well :-)

But I expect not as well as a belt or disc sander.

Which is what I used to use before I got a sharpener. One issue is that
the quality of these pencils varies quite a lot; some are relatively
easy to sharpen, in others the wood "binds" and the lead snaps.

On Sun, 8 Apr 2018 04:35:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, 8 April 2018 08:58:15 UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Sat, 7 Apr 2018 19:29:57 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:

snip

Nor do I remember any functional version of win that was any use on a 286 PC.

So, you don't remember the network Fax server that I installed that
was serving 30+ people, 24/7 and running on Windows on an Olivetti 286
wasn't fully 'functional' I'm guessing?

No, I wasn't there

Thought not.

You probably don't remember one of my beta testers coming into my
office and shaking my hand because he was so impressed how easy /
efficient the Network Fax Server was and how much time it would save
him, FAXing all our international distributors and bigger customers?

No, I wasn't there and didn't meet your beta testers.

Thought not.

I don't remember you having any real experience / understanding of
Windows.

Cheers, T i m

I did get to play with the early versions, but we didn't regard them as usable.

Except they were, for a lot of people.

A 286 or 386 has very limited cpu speed & ram, splitting that over 4 apps plus a minimal OS made the machines hopelessly slow.

Or not (comparatively).

I don't doubt that someone's mileage varied,

Phew.

but for us they were only gimmicks.

Compared with what at the time?

Cheers, T i m

On 08/04/2018 03:29, wrote:
all versions of windows ran like that at least as far as Me.

Not quite correct.

MS ran two parallel Windows products for a while. There was the
DOS-based family, which started of with Windows 2 or something silly -
and yes, it really did run on a '286, but wouldn't IIRC run any programs
not specially written for it - and went through the well-known Windows
3.1, 95, 98 and ME. I may have missed one or two.

In parallel was Windows NT. This was a re-write from the ground up using
a microkernel, and was really solid at first. It was also portable,
running on Dec Alpha and Intel Itanium to my personal knowledge.

The reliability took a hit when they forced a 9x-style windows manager
onto it.

This is the product that became the Windows we know today.

BTW my carpenter's pencils are rectangular. But I have had them a long time.

Andy

On Monday, 9 April 2018 23:07:10 UTC+1, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 08/04/2018 03:29, tabbypurr wrote:

all versions of windows ran like that at least as far as Me.

Not quite correct.

MS ran two parallel Windows products for a while. There was the
DOS-based family, which started of with Windows 2 or something silly -
and yes, it really did run on a '286, but wouldn't IIRC run any programs
not specially written for it - and went through the well-known Windows
3.1, 95, 98 and ME. I may have missed one or two.

In parallel was Windows NT. This was a re-write from the ground up using
a microkernel, and was really solid at first. It was also portable,
running on Dec Alpha and Intel Itanium to my personal knowledge.

The reliability took a hit when they forced a 9x-style windows manager
onto it.

This is the product that became the Windows we know today.

BTW my carpenter's pencils are rectangular. But I have had them a long time.

Andy


Yes I was thinking only of win-dos, not win-nt. There was windows 1 as well.. 1, 2, 3.0, 3.1, 3.11, 3.2 in Chinese only IIRC, 95, 98, Me. And unofficial hybrids of 95/98/Me were rarely encountered. And I once had a lappie that was an odd hybrid of 3.1 & 95, but called itself 95. I gather this was an upgrade available before 95 released, it looked on the surface like 95 but was clearly a lot less developed.

FWIW there were also never released versions of 95 such as Windows 93 & Chicago with no net browser, but they were both stages of evolution that ended up as 95.


NT

On 06/04/2018 16:45, David wrote:
Just tried to sharpen a builder's pencil and the two wood halves came
apart.

Pencil sharpener for normal pencils is blunt.

I am now considering a propelling pencil with a thick lead for use in
marking up work.

Anyone else doing this?

If so, which lead thickness?


Cheers



Dave R


I find the bench grinder or bench belt sander the best tools for
sharpening workshop pencils.

Mike