The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which has
now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why the box
doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered in
snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they are)

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:18:04 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:58:15 +0000, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

-182C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane

I don't think even the Beast from the East will achieve that :-)

In article ,
tim... wrote:
The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite
why the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)


Wondering if the meter itself got so cold as to stop it turning, would
that stop the gas getting through? Dunno how well they are sealed to
prevent water getting inside. I suspect not well, since they're always
fitted in a covered position.

--
*Procrastinate now

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/02/18 09:58, tim... wrote:
The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it?Â* The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)






It has to liquefy first and that, other than under pressure, requires
sub-zero temperatures we don't get here.

There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

May be 15 years ago, we had a gas leak by the outside meter. I turned
off the supply and called the number in the phone book, they arrived
within about 30 mins. Swapped the regulator, checked the gas appliances
worked etc, had a cup of tea, and were gone in no time. All free and
most impressive.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.

--
*If vegetable oil comes from vegetables, where does baby oil come from? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/02/18 11:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.



I was thinking more of small amounts of moisture rather than lots of
water. I expect the gas is, in theory. "dried" but a little water vapour
condensing out isn't beyond the bounds of possibility.

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:58:15 +0000, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

Don't be a wimp.

You have a blowtorch, don't you?

[Or a slightly more girlie hair dryer/electric pain stripper.]

More seriously, couldn't you just pour a kettle full of hot water over it?
I remember this as the emergency way of clearing frozen drains when a tap
had been dripping over night and the drain from the sink had gradually
frozen up just outside the bathroom. Quite satisfying to see it slowly
thaw and then let go with a "whooosh".


Cheers



Dave R

P.S. drain hole in box, obviously. Drill not too near the gas pipe.
Mother, want to know how to suck eggs?


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On 27/02/2018 09:58, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)
Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it?

Only if its very nippy - like ~ -180 deg C ;-)

However it might have jammed something in the meter or main governor

The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.


Nope it's not sealed

It apparently has a little hole in the top that lets air in - it wasn't
explained how that doesn't also let gas out.

Water had got into this hole and frozen, and stuffed the regulator, hence no
gas supply.

Swapped out, new one in, all done inside 30 minutes - well impressed!

I then spent that long on the phone to the supply company arguing about
whose responsibility it is to get the box repaired so that water doesn't get
in again

Still not resolved that

B*stards!

tim

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:58:15 +0000, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

Don't be a wimp.

You have a blowtorch, don't you?

[Or a slightly more girlie hair dryer/electric pain stripper.]

More seriously, couldn't you just pour a kettle full of hot water over it?

I know I'm in the minority - I don't have a proper kettle

But I did suggest to the girl on the emergency helpline if I should try
pouring hot water on to it to melt it and was advised against

I remember this as the emergency way of clearing frozen drains when a tap
had been dripping over night and the drain from the sink had gradually
frozen up just outside the bathroom. Quite satisfying to see it slowly
thaw and then let go with a "whooosh".


Cheers



Dave R

P.S. drain hole in box, obviously. Drill not too near the gas pipe.

TBH I thought that I had done this the first time I noticed it filling up
with water.

But AIH this skating rink at the bottom of the box was not the cause of the
problem

tim... wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.


Nope it's not sealed

It apparently has a little hole in the top that lets air in - it wasn't
explained how that doesn't also let gas out.

Because the gas is the other side of the spring-loaded diaphragm, having
its pressure compared to atmospheric (or to the compressiblity of ice in
your case).


Water had got into this hole and frozen, and stuffed the regulator, hence no
gas supply.

Swapped out, new one in, all done inside 30 minutes - well impressed!

I then spent that long on the phone to the supply company arguing about
whose responsibility it is to get the box repaired so that water doesn't get
in again

Still not resolved that

A hole in the bottom is still a good idea, and they cannot reasonably
complain about it.



B*stards!


Doubtless.


--

Roger Hayter

"Roger Hayter" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator
is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting
into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.


Nope it's not sealed

It apparently has a little hole in the top that lets air in - it wasn't
explained how that doesn't also let gas out.

Because the gas is the other side of the spring-loaded diaphragm, having
its pressure compared to atmospheric (or to the compressiblity of ice in
your case).


Water had got into this hole and frozen, and stuffed the regulator, hence
no
gas supply.

Swapped out, new one in, all done inside 30 minutes - well impressed!

I then spent that long on the phone to the supply company arguing about
whose responsibility it is to get the box repaired so that water doesn't
get
in again

Still not resolved that

A hole in the bottom is still a good idea, and they cannot reasonably
complain about it.

the first thing the engineer did after he broke through the ice was to drill
one :-)

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:
I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.


Nope it's not sealed

It apparently has a little hole in the top that lets air in - it wasn't
explained how that doesn't also let gas out.

I'd guess it has a diaphragm. Gas one side - air the other, with some form
of spring loading.

--
*The modem is the message *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'd guess about 100 degrees lower than water, but I'm not sure what gas they
supply these days, propane methane?

May well be some kind of electronic component involved which detects
flooding and cuts the supply as a lot of meters and appliances rely on
electricity to function.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"tim..." wrote in message
news
The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which has
now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why the
box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered in
snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

Beast from the East? Who needs silly names for normal weather behaviour. Its
only cold due to the air coming from a cold place and pressure being quite
high.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 10:18:04 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:58:15 +0000, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

-182C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane

I don't think even the Beast from the East will achieve that :-)

Above the pay grade of the person you see. The answer is to drill a small
hole in the lowest point in the box and forget about it.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"tim..." wrote in message
news


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
There may be some water/moisture in the pipe that has frozen causing a
blockage or the regulator to jam etc.

I'd not expect there to be water in the pipes. But although a regulator
is
sealed to prevent gas escaping, is it sealed to prevent water getting
into
its body and freezing? Thus possibly stopping the gas supply by the
freezing water expanding and closing the regulator.


Nope it's not sealed

It apparently has a little hole in the top that lets air in - it wasn't
explained how that doesn't also let gas out.

Water had got into this hole and frozen, and stuffed the regulator, hence
no gas supply.

Swapped out, new one in, all done inside 30 minutes - well impressed!

I then spent that long on the phone to the supply company arguing about
whose responsibility it is to get the box repaired so that water doesn't
get in again

Still not resolved that

B*stards!

tim

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Beast from the East? Who needs silly names for normal weather behaviour.
Its only cold due to the air coming from a cold place and pressure being
quite high.

and it's not even *cold* just snowy

tim

On 27/02/18 18:31, tim... wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Beast from the East? Who needs silly names for normal weather
behaviour. Its only cold due to the air coming from a cold place and
pressure being quite high.

and it's not even *cold* just snowy


It's more cold than snowy here, in what passes for hills in E anglia
-2 already and its only 18:45


tim





--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 16:45:34 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Beast from the East? Who needs silly names for normal weather behaviour. Its
only cold due to the air coming from a cold place and pressure being quite
high.
Brian

Even ScotRail are employing the term, I'll have you know :-)

On 27/02/2018 18:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/02/18 18:31, tim... wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Beast from the East? Who needs silly names for normal weather
behaviour. Its only cold due to the air coming from a cold place and
pressure being quite high.

and it's not even *cold* just snowy


It's more cold than snowy here, in what passes for hills in E anglia
-2 already and its only 18:45


It is -5C outside at my house in Kent and +3.1C in Anglesey.

--
Michael Chare

On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 18:45:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/02/18 18:31, tim... wrote:


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
Beast from the East? Who needs silly names for normal weather
behaviour. Its only cold due to the air coming from a cold place and
pressure being quite high.

and it's not even *cold* just snowy


It's more cold than snowy here, in what passes for hills in E anglia -2
already and its only 18:45

Showing -3.8C here now.

Forecast says **** happens in the early hours and continues into the
morning.

If I was a kid I'd be really excited and wanting a sledge and a snowman.

I know where my sledge is; so should I build a snowman?

Cheers


Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

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On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 1:23:25 PM UTC, tim... wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message

I then spent that long on the phone to the supply company arguing about
whose responsibility it is to get the box repaired so that water doesn't get
in again

Still not resolved that

B*stards!

tim

They installed the box outside with holes in the top that let in water and no drain holes. Their negligence, their responsibility. Perhaps they'll argue that rain and freezing weather could not have been anticipated in this country.

Some years ago, after the first cold snap in a decade, all the condensing boilers with external condensate drains stopped working when the drain pipes froze. British Gas were charging for the remedial work to insulate and trace-heat the drains on boilers they'd installed. ISTR that water has usually turned into a solid at 0 degC for quite a long time.

B'stards, as you say.

In article , Jethro_uk
writes
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:58:15 +0000, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

-182C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane
Boiling point -161C according to your reference
Couldn't see any reference to freezing.

--
bert

In article , Tim Streater
writes
In article , bert wrote:

In article , Jethro_uk
writes
On Tue, 27 Feb 2018 09:58:15 +0000, tim... wrote:

The box that surrounds my gas meter has got half full of water, which
has now frozen solid around the supply pipe and on/off handle (quite why
the box doesn't have a drain hole in it, I have no idea)

Consequently, I now have no gas supply into the flat.

But that can't have frozen the gas, can it? The ground may be covered
in snow, but it's only 1 or 2 degrees below zero out there.

(Gas board contacted, will be here within the hour - impressive if they
are)

-182C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane
Boiling point -161C according to your reference
Couldn't see any reference to freezing.

And what d'ye see if you go to the box immediately *above* where it
gives the boiling point?

Ah that box - I was scanning through the text.
Point is many people refer to freezing point of gas or indeed lpg when
they really are referring to boiling point. I must say I am surprised
how close they are in this case compared to say propane.
--
bert

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
SWMBO and I were reminiscing about 'vanning days, and insisting on
propane over butane, to avoid being left gas-less.

It's quite interesting you jump from -180, to -42, to 0 degrees C for 1,3
and 4 carbons ..

What was the advantage of butane over propane? I'd have thought that
propane's lower freezing temperature would have meant that everyone used
propane. Was butane cheaper, as long as you knew that you would never
encounter low temperatures?

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 17:16:14 +0000, NY wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
SWMBO and I were reminiscing about 'vanning days, and insisting on
propane over butane, to avoid being left gas-less.

It's quite interesting you jump from -180, to -42, to 0 degrees C for
1,3 and 4 carbons ..

What was the advantage of butane over propane? I'd have thought that
propane's lower freezing temperature would have meant that everyone used
propane. Was butane cheaper, as long as you knew that you would never
encounter low temperatures?

More energy per given mass (it burns hotter).

Ah. So if you're camping / caravanning in a warmer climate, you'd choose
butane over propane. I knew there must be a reason to outweigh the better
low-temperature performance of propane cylinders.

Shame that the reserves of gas under the ground are methane rather than
butane or propane :-)

In article , NY
writes
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
SWMBO and I were reminiscing about 'vanning days, and insisting on
propane over butane, to avoid being left gas-less.

It's quite interesting you jump from -180, to -42, to 0 degrees C for 1,3
and 4 carbons ..

What was the advantage of butane over propane? I'd have thought that
propane's lower freezing temperature would have meant that everyone
used propane. Was butane cheaper, as long as you knew that you would
never encounter low temperatures?
Historical mainly from the days when caravans were summer holidays only.
--
bert

In article , NY
writes
"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 01 Mar 2018 17:16:14 +0000, NY wrote:

"Jethro_uk" wrote in message
news SWMBO and I were reminiscing about 'vanning days, and insisting on
propane over butane, to avoid being left gas-less.

It's quite interesting you jump from -180, to -42, to 0 degrees C for
1,3 and 4 carbons ..

What was the advantage of butane over propane? I'd have thought that
propane's lower freezing temperature would have meant that everyone used
propane. Was butane cheaper, as long as you knew that you would never
encounter low temperatures?

More energy per given mass (it burns hotter).

Ah. So if you're camping / caravanning in a warmer climate, you'd
choose butane over propane. I knew there must be a reason to outweigh
the better low-temperature performance of propane cylinders.

Shame that the reserves of gas under the ground are methane rather than
butane or propane :-)
We have substantial reserves of propane. Last time I looked we were an
exporter but that was some time ago
--
bert

In message , bert writes

We have substantial reserves of propane. Last time I looked we were an
exporter but that was some time ago

We have large (47kg, I think) orange bottles to feed a gas hob, and the
gas stopped yesterday. I cleared a foot or so of snow off the top of
the bottles and pipework, and more around the base, and the gas flowed
again shortly afterwards. Aberdeenshire.
--
Graeme

On 03/03/2018 08:04, Graeme wrote:
In message , bert writes

We have substantial reserves of propane. Last time I looked we were an
exporter but that was some time ago

We have large (47kg, I think) orange bottles to feed a gas hob, and the
gas stopped yesterday.Â* I cleared a foot or so of snow off the top of
the bottles and pipework, and more around the base, and the gas flowed
again shortly afterwards.Â* Aberdeenshire.

Probably ice in the regulator. They are not supposed to be exposed to
ice and snow as it stops the moving bits moving.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 03/03/2018 08:04, Graeme wrote:
We have large (47kg, I think) orange bottles to feed a gas hob, and
the gas stopped yesterday.* I cleared a foot or so of snow off the
top of the bottles and pipework, and more around the base, and the
gas flowed again shortly afterwards.* Aberdeenshire.

Probably ice in the regulator. They are not supposed to be exposed to
ice and snow as it stops the moving bits moving.

OK, thanks. No problems since.
--
Graeme

On 05/03/2018 07:05, Graeme wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 03/03/2018 08:04, Graeme wrote:
Â*We have large (47kg, I think) orange bottles to feed a gas hob, and
theÂ* gas stopped yesterday.Â* I cleared a foot or so of snow off the
top ofÂ* the bottles and pipework, and more around the base, and the
gas flowedÂ* again shortly afterwards.Â* Aberdeenshire.

Probably ice in the regulator. They are not supposed to be exposed to
ice and snow as it stops the moving bits moving.

OK, thanks.Â* No problems since.

You could probably put a plastic bag over them to keep them dry. Don't
do it tight though and don't block the little hole.

In message , "dennis@home"
writes
On 05/03/2018 07:05, Graeme wrote:
In message , "dennis@home"

Probably ice in the regulator. They are not supposed to be exposed
to ice and snow as it stops the moving bits moving.

OK, thanks.* No problems since.

You could probably put a plastic bag over them to keep them dry. Don't
do it tight though and don't block the little hole.

Yes, I'll have a go after the snow has finally gone. Could perhaps lay
a plank or even half a paving stone over the top of the bottle, which
would keep the snow off yet allow plenty of air to circulate.
--
Graeme