I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks

"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so
overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a washer
or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


I would just replace the whole thing ......

On 16/02/2018 19:27, Jim.GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so
overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a washer
or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


I would just replace the whole thing ......


Yes, they're very cheap.
--
Dave W

Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.
--
Dave W

On 16/02/2018 19:27, Jim.GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so
overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a washer
or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


I would just replace the whole thing ......

I'm sure after a clean it would be fine.

Other wise there's a lot more undoing, sealing etc.

The only concern I might have if that there might be a wear groove in
the valve washer seat, in which case I might agree a replacement is the
best way.

I need to get under the cistern to replace the ballcock as it's mounted on the bottom of the cistern not the side ie the water comes in underneath

On 16/02/2018 19:47, Dave W wrote:
On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the
underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.

The OP's "ballcock" is a unit that includes the filling aspect that
attaches to the bottom.

Different internals will not generally be compatible.

Murmansk wrote:
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a
washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


More or less. If you turn the water off, unscrew the blue bit, you may well
find that its just a tiny bit of grit in the valve stopping it sealing.
Certainly well worth a look and cleaning out before you spend any money.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Friday, 16 February 2018 19:52:51 UTC, Murmansk wrote:

I need to get under the cistern to replace the ballcock as it's mounted on the bottom of the cistern not the side ie the water comes in underneath

no no no. You just undo the big blue plastic nut in the photo, and the ball & arm come away. Replace the rubber washer/diaphragm with the right type, there are several, and put the ball/arm back in place & refit the nut. Then just check the water level it fills to is ok.

I assume you know to turn the water off first


NT

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:06:07 -0800, Murmansk wrote:

I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and
so overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a
washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Looked at the picture, and as I suspected, it's a Torbeck valve. These
are very prone to grit and dirt. Whenever they do work on the underground
water pipes round here, there's a chance that ours will do this.

Turn off the water supply (with luck there's a service valve in the
cistern feed). Remove the blue ring (probably very stiff) and withdraw
the body of the valve. There's a flat rubber washer with a white plastic
spike and a tiny hole with a plastic insert; that may be left behind, in
which case pull it out. Clean that all thoroughly. Use a water pistol or
something to wash out the housing attached to the cistern.

Gently unclip the swinging part of what you removed. Blow through the
tiny hole; I use canned air. Wash it all thoroughly.

Clip the swinging part back on. re-seat the rubber washer; the hole in it
fits over a little metal pin in the housing; get this right or you'll
puncture the washer. Replace housing and blue ring. It often has to be
done up quite tight.

Turn the water back on. If necessary, rotate the float on its 'screw
thread' to set the correct water level.

Make sure there are no leaks between the housing and the valvel body; if
there are, do the blue ring up a bit more.

If it still overflows, it's worth another go. Otherwise, new washer or
valve!



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 16 Feb 2018 19:47:39 +0000, Dave W wrote:

On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the
underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.

It's not actually a ballcock. No ball.

It's a Torbeck valve.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Looked at the picture, and as I suspected, it's a Torbeck valve.

NEVER mess with a Torbeck valve...they work by magic and if you touch
them the magic goes ....honest ......

On 2/16/2018 9:08 PM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

Looked at the picture, and as I suspected, it's a Torbeck valve.

NEVER mess with a Torbeck valve...they work by magic and if you touch
them the magic goes ....honest ......

If the bloke has just had a combi fitted and the wc is now off mains
pressure replace it with the appropriate high pressure ball valve type
.......

--
Resisting Freemasonry for 39 years .....
Fat Masons need love ...

On 16/02/2018 20:21, Tim+ wrote:
Murmansk wrote:
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a
washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


More or less. If you turn the water off, unscrew the blue bit, you may well
find that its just a tiny bit of grit in the valve stopping it sealing.
Certainly well worth a look and cleaning out before you spend any money.


It looks that the pivot end of the float arm has been inhibited by the
build up of limescale. Possibly and simple application of a limescale
remover around that area will restore proper operation.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 16/02/2018 19:47, Dave W wrote:
On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the
underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.

Since its a bottom fill, and there will be nuts that need undoing under
the cistern, he would need to get there.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Friday, 16 February 2018 19:06:11 UTC, Murmansk wrote:
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks

This is a common fault with this sort of float valve.
There is a diaphragm inside with two tiny holes
The one nearer to the edge is blocked.
This stops the valve from closing (it uses water pressure to close.)

Unscrew the blue ring, remove the diaphragm and clear out the hole.
Replace it making sure the needle is correctly located in the centre hole.

The usual faults on normal ballcock or float valve designs are usually.
1. the valve or its washer is scaled up or in some other way knackered. the
ballcaock or float has a hole in it which makes floating a challenge!
In the first instance establish if you have a loft tank fed or a mains fed
system and buy a whole new valve assembly with the right sized hole, i.e.
big hole loft tank little hole mains fed. Also do not even consider those
with most of their parts made of plastic, they are rubbish and trying to
make the pipe join leak proof has driven many a DIY er to drink.
If its the float, If its not in too bad a nick and you can see the leak
site. let it drain or evaporate and mend the hole with something like epoxy
resin and then refit.
Otherwise you need a spare and this may or may not still be available
depending on the design. I also hate plastic bits joining this with the
valve as they have just snapped for no reason other than its crap.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jim.GM4DHJ ..." wrote in message
...

"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so
overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a
washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


I would just replace the whole thing ......

On 16 Feb 2018 20:21:45 GMT, Tim+ wrote:

Murmansk wrote:
I've been asked to sort out a toilet cistern that keeps on filling and so overflowing.

Photo of offending item he

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtfogxvkne...29.04.jpg?dl=0

Is it just a case of removing the circular blue bit and replacing a
washer or diaphragm or something inside there?

Thanks


More or less. If you turn the water off, unscrew the blue bit, you may well
find that it’s just a tiny bit of grit in the valve stopping it sealing.
Certainly well worth a look and cleaning out before you spend any money.

Tim
+1 exactly what happened to mine after Water Co did some work out in
the street. There usually a mesh filter in there, clean that as well.

On 16/02/2018 19:47, Dave W wrote:
On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the
underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.

It's bottom entry.



--
Dave
The Medway Handyman

Brian - you won't be able to see the picture, but it's a Torbeck valve,
not the usual ball valve.

I have posted a comprehensive set of instructions, gained from bitter
experience!

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 09:47:30 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

The usual faults on normal ballcock or float valve designs are usually.
1. the valve or its washer is scaled up or in some other way knackered.
the
ballcaock or float has a hole in it which makes floating a challenge!
In the first instance establish if you have a loft tank fed or a mains
fed
system and buy a whole new valve assembly with the right sized hole,
i.e. big hole loft tank little hole mains fed. Also do not even
consider those with most of their parts made of plastic, they are
rubbish and trying to make the pipe join leak proof has driven many a
DIY er to drink.
If its the float, If its not in too bad a nick and you can see the leak
site. let it drain or evaporate and mend the hole with something like
epoxy resin and then refit.
Otherwise you need a spare and this may or may not still be available
depending on the design. I also hate plastic bits joining this with the
valve as they have just snapped for no reason other than its crap.

Brian





--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

If the bloke has just had a combi fitted and the wc is now off mains
pressure replace it with the appropriate high pressure ball valve type


No!

Thanks for the input everyone I've now looked at some YouTube videos on Torbeck valves and feel a lot better informed

On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 00:03:09 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 16/02/2018 19:47, Dave W wrote:
On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the
underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.

Since its a bottom fill, and there will be nuts that need undoing under
the cistern, he would need to get there.

True enough if he needs to replace the whole assembly. However, he might
be able to replace the blue part containing the diaphragm if it's
anything like my side entry FluidMaster valve where that bit can be
removed with a quarter turn or less twist for servicing (I've got an
identical FluidMaster stored as a spare - the original that was swapped
out for one recovered from the downstairs shower room toilet cistern when
we had the whole lot revamped 6 or 7 years ago). It looks like I might do
better to swap it back, now that I've modded the air break vent cap to
prevent the stuck air break valve from allowing water to spray out past
the cistern lid during each filling cycle[1].

Either way, he'll still have to shut off the water feed. I still haven't
found a round tuit to fit a shut off valve in the feed to our half
landing toilet cistern to save me having to run down to the basement
stopcock and back... TWICE! each time I need to seriously fettle the
FluidMaster valve which is currently allowing the water to slowly seep
past its diaphragm valve, causing a slow but annoying drip from the
overflow.[2] :-(

One thing I do notice in that picture, is the unblanked/unsealed side
entry hole just to the right of the valve (which is of even greater
concern than the absence of a fixing nut on the flush handle bearing
shaft). This looks like an 'overflow accident waiting to happen' on an
even larger 'Biblical Scale' than my own[2]. It doesn't even seem to have
ever been blanked (preferably sealed) off in its recent history. Unless
the overflow outlet is barely above the current fill level, that *does
rather* look like a disaster waiting to happen, imo.

[1] I've blocked the vents with hot glue having drilled out the blocked
off gallery between a redundant flexible pipe nipple and the vent cap to
allow me to revert to what I can only assume was an earlier design
solution by the manufacturer which must have involved a short length of
windscreen type washer tubing to direct the backflow into the cistern
above the maximum water filling level so as to eliminate the spraying
effect whilst still maintaining the required air break.

My original 'Quick Fix' solution had been the use of a shaped aluminium
foil pie dish placed over the top of the vent dome to act as a spray
deflector but this was a little tricky to fettle up just right and risked
fouling the float arm so a tentative drilling out of the nipple port on
the 'spare' to confirm my suspicion about this "ornament", inspired me to
the current hot glue/drill-out/tubing fix.

[2] This, at least, is a vast improvement over my previous adventures
with this particular cistern involving a sticking Fluidmaster valve and
copious overflowing of water both onto the toilet floor as well as
through the overflow pipe.

It was a problem that arose as a consequence of the float slide becoming
contaminated by iron filings from all the hacksawing required to undo the
seized clamp that had held the failed siphon lever arm onto the flush
handle spindle. Of course, I didn't discover *this* until a day or two
*after* swapping out the Fluidmaster valve with the modified spare. :-(

--
Johnny B Good

On 17/02/2018 20:56, Johnny B Good wrote:
On Sat, 17 Feb 2018 00:03:09 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 16/02/2018 19:47, Dave W wrote:
On 16/02/2018 19:42, Murmansk wrote:
Fair enough but the thing is kind of "built-in" so getting to the
underneath of the cistern could be a serious challenge!

You need to replace the ballcock, not get underneath the cistern.

Since its a bottom fill, and there will be nuts that need undoing under
the cistern, he would need to get there.

True enough if he needs to replace the whole assembly.

Yup.

Trying to service the one that is there first would be a better option.

However, he might
be able to replace the blue part containing the diaphragm if it's
anything like my side entry FluidMaster valve where that bit can be
removed with a quarter turn or less twist for servicing (I've got an
identical FluidMaster stored as a spare - the original that was swapped
out for one recovered from the downstairs shower room toilet cistern when
we had the whole lot revamped 6 or 7 years ago). It looks like I might do
better to swap it back, now that I've modded the air break vent cap to
prevent the stuck air break valve from allowing water to spray out past
the cistern lid during each filling cycle[1].

Many of them can be taken apart. Often wiping any grit or debris away
and flushing some water through it when open will fix many let by problems.

Either way, he'll still have to shut off the water feed. I still haven't
found a round tuit to fit a shut off valve in the feed to our half
landing toilet cistern to save me having to run down to the basement
stopcock and back... TWICE! each time I need to seriously fettle the
FluidMaster valve which is currently allowing the water to slowly seep
past its diaphragm valve, causing a slow but annoying drip from the
overflow.[2] :-(

I got called to a former neighbours house to deal with a valve letting
by. It took a couple of visits to fix since there must have been a burst
of contamination in the water - and it got grit in it several days in a
row.






--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/