I'm now too old and unfit to bother with the aggro of fitting my own kitchen
to save a couple of grand

So I am seeking the help of a professional fitter to do it

And (apart from the shops selling stupidly priced kitchen units) they all
want to use Howdens as their supplier.

But Howdens wont let me walk into their branch and plan a kitchen and then
send that to, say, 3 installers

I have to get the installer to refer me to Howdens and they quote him, and
then he quotes me.

So that means that to get three competitive quotes for the installation
part, I have to get three referrals to Howdens and get them to draw up my
plans three times.

How can you avoid all this nonsense

(Other than not using Howdens, which is currently the preferred solution)

tim

In article , tim...
wrote:
I'm now too old and unfit to bother with the aggro of fitting my own
kitchen to save a couple of grand

So I am seeking the help of a professional fitter to do it

And (apart from the shops selling stupidly priced kitchen units) they all
want to use Howdens as their supplier.

But Howdens wont let me walk into their branch and plan a kitchen and
then send that to, say, 3 installers

I have to get the installer to refer me to Howdens and they quote him,
and then he quotes me.

So that means that to get three competitive quotes for the installation
part, I have to get three referrals to Howdens and get them to draw up my
plans three times.

How can you avoid all this nonsense

(Other than not using Howdens, which is currently the preferred solution)

we had a Howdens' kitchen installed in our village hall 3 years ago. It
does seem good, although then installer left a
lot to be desired.

Presumably you could plan your kitchen using standard sizes and ask 3
locals about the installation costs. Then get the best to obtain a proper
quote via Howdesn.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 14/02/2018 11:56, charles wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:
I'm now too old and unfit to bother with the aggro of fitting my own
kitchen to save a couple of grand

So I am seeking the help of a professional fitter to do it

And (apart from the shops selling stupidly priced kitchen units) they all
want to use Howdens as their supplier.

But Howdens wont let me walk into their branch and plan a kitchen and
then send that to, say, 3 installers

I have to get the installer to refer me to Howdens and they quote him,
and then he quotes me.

So that means that to get three competitive quotes for the installation
part, I have to get three referrals to Howdens and get them to draw up my
plans three times.

How can you avoid all this nonsense

(Other than not using Howdens, which is currently the preferred solution)

we had a Howdens' kitchen installed in our village hall 3 years ago. It
does seem good, although then installer left a
lot to be desired.

Presumably you could plan your kitchen using standard sizes and ask 3
locals about the installation costs. Then get the best to obtain a proper
quote via Howdesn.

We recently had a fire, so in need of a new kitchen the insurance used
Howdens. the were OK, but nothing special, I had to pay for one I would
not use them.

On 14/02/2018 11:50, tim... wrote:
I'm now too old and unfit to bother with the aggro of fitting my own
kitchen to save a couple of grand

So I am seeking the help of a professional fitter to do it

And (apart from the shops selling stupidly priced kitchen units) they
all want to use Howdens as their supplier.

But Howdens wont let me walk into their branch and plan a kitchen and
then send that to, say, 3 installers

I have to get the installer to refer me to Howdens and they quote him,
and then he quotes me.

So that means that to get three competitive quotes for the installation
part, I have to get three referrals to Howdens and get them to draw up
my plans three times.

How can you avoid all this nonsense

(Other than not using Howdens, which is currently the preferred solution)

tim



We had a Howdens kitchen installed last summer. Went into the local
branch (Fareham), saw a kitchen designer who visited and prepared a
design and costing. We then chose a fitter. Is your local branch being
awkward? Fitter was a slow worker but his work was good. He sold our
old kitchen on ebay for around £100 but this avoided disposal costs.

The one annoying thing was that everything had to be ordered through
him, including a blanking plate for the sink which was replaced free!

Yes I would buy from Howdens again, but not using that particular fitter.

Malcolm

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"Malcolm Race" wrote in message
news
On 14/02/2018 11:50, tim... wrote:
I'm now too old and unfit to bother with the aggro of fitting my own
kitchen to save a couple of grand

So I am seeking the help of a professional fitter to do it

And (apart from the shops selling stupidly priced kitchen units) they all
want to use Howdens as their supplier.

But Howdens wont let me walk into their branch and plan a kitchen and
then send that to, say, 3 installers

I have to get the installer to refer me to Howdens and they quote him,
and then he quotes me.

So that means that to get three competitive quotes for the installation
part, I have to get three referrals to Howdens and get them to draw up my
plans three times.

How can you avoid all this nonsense

(Other than not using Howdens, which is currently the preferred solution)

tim



We had a Howdens kitchen installed last summer. Went into the local
branch (Fareham), saw a kitchen designer who visited and prepared a design
and costing. We then chose a fitter. Is your local branch being awkward?

problem is, the flat that I am buying that needs the new kitchen in not near
where I live now (and as I have a Howdens literally in the next street, that
is where I went to ask)

I later read their website which says that all the branches set their own
policy and prices (FFS), so there's obviously no corporate value in a
planner in one outlet doing a plan for another one to fulfill.

But that's their problem :-)

Other retailers don't work like this (I hope - I'm off to the "wrong" branch
of Wren at the weekend).

Fitter was a slow worker but his work was good. He sold our old kitchen
on ebay for around £100 but this avoided disposal costs.

There is so little of the old kitchen left I could take it to the dump in my
car

The one annoying thing was that everything had to be ordered through him,
including a blanking plate for the sink which was replaced free!

Yes I would buy from Howdens again, but not using that particular fitter.

This the problem, how do you choose the fitter? And if your order from
Howdens is linked to him, How do you replace him part way through the job if
he is a useless ****er?

tim

In article ,
says...


I later read their website which says that all the branches set their own
policy and prices ...


I have a namesake who is obviously a kitchen fitter who deals
with Howdens.

He tried to get the same email address as me but, of course,
his has a '2' appended.

About 3 - 4 years ago, someone at Howdens started leaving the
2 of his email address, so I started getting his quotes from
time to time!

They quoted 'retail' prices and his discount was 80%!

The prices he paid were very good but I don't somehow think
the quality could have matched what his customer paid, though!

The branch he used was in Stevenage, if I recall correctly.

Perhaps you should tell Howdens you are a fitter and ask for a
quote. Then tout around for a fitter to fit the stuff when it
turns up.

You pay his labour costs and save the 80% mark up!


--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


I later read their website which says that all the branches set their own
policy and prices ...


I have a namesake who is obviously a kitchen fitter who deals
with Howdens.

He tried to get the same email address as me but, of course,
his has a '2' appended.

About 3 - 4 years ago, someone at Howdens started leaving the
2 of his email address, so I started getting his quotes from
time to time!

They quoted 'retail' prices and his discount was 80%!

I think the idea is that he passes the discount onto you

If you go to Wren Kitchens site they claim to be 28% cheaper than Howdens
after a 75% discount

If they didn't pass on the discount, the prices would be silly money and
completely uncompetitive.

The prices he paid were very good but I don't somehow think
the quality could have matched what his customer paid, though!

I know that you can get some really basic units, but once you get above that
into the "normal" range they are all much of a muchness IME

The branch he used was in Stevenage, if I recall correctly.

Perhaps you should tell Howdens you are a fitter and ask for a
quote.

I think they require a bit more evidence than you just turning up
pretending.

tim

Tim Streater wrote:
In article , tim...
wrote:

"Terry Casey" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

I later read their website which says that all the branches set their own
policy and prices ...

I have a namesake who is obviously a kitchen fitter who deals
with Howdens.

He tried to get the same email address as me but, of course,
his has a '2' appended.

About 3 - 4 years ago, someone at Howdens started leaving the
2 of his email address, so I started getting his quotes from
time to time!

They quoted 'retail' prices and his discount was 80%!

I think the idea is that he passes the discount onto you

If you go to Wren Kitchens site they claim to be 28% cheaper than Howdens
after a 75% discount

If they didn't pass on the discount, the prices would be silly money and
completely uncompetitive.

We went to Wren because they had a better range of cabinet widths than
the others, and because they were the only people doing wooden drawers
(everyone does wooden draw *fronts*) with proper corners. This was 18
months ago. By the time we went back to actually order, they'd scrapped
all the "traditional" ranges and only seemed to do those boring modern
angular ones with no door knobs (so you can't tell at a glance how to
open anything).

When I refitted our kitchen some years ago I used the existing
carcases, extended them to reach the ceiling and fill all the odd gaps
and then had custom made wooden doors. The doors cost a fair amount
but the result is excellent, no silly gaps or bits of padding
anywhere.

--
Chris Green
·

On 14/02/2018 19:01, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


I later read their website which says that all the branches set their own
policy and prices ...


I have a namesake who is obviously a kitchen fitter who deals
with Howdens.

He tried to get the same email address as me but, of course,
his has a '2' appended.

About 3 - 4 years ago, someone at Howdens started leaving the
2 of his email address, so I started getting his quotes from
time to time!

They quoted 'retail' prices and his discount was 80%!

The prices he paid were very good but I don't somehow think
the quality could have matched what his customer paid, though!

The branch he used was in Stevenage, if I recall correctly.

Perhaps you should tell Howdens you are a fitter and ask for a
quote. Then tout around for a fitter to fit the stuff when it
turns up.

You pay his labour costs and save the 80% mark up!


It's the same with car parts. 100% markup from 'trade' to
'retail' is typical across the board.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:37:29 -0000, tim... wrote:

This the problem, how do you choose the fitter?

Always a problem, the only real way to find any trader is word of
mouth.

And if your order from Howdens is linked to him, How do you replace him
part way through the job if he is a useless ****er?

You get an account with Howdens, use their design service etc order
and get supplied the stuff and contract the fitter of your choice to
do the work. Be aware that Howdens units are not flat packed...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:17:22 -0000, tim... wrote:

Perhaps you should tell Howdens you are a fitter and ask for a
quote.

I think they require a bit more evidence than you just turning up
pretending.

Or say you are going to DIY and can I have an account please. The
Penrith sales rep actually cold called here, last year and this.
I've now got an account and a free 50 piece set Milwaukee drills,
bits and nut spinners.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 15:37:29 -0000, tim... wrote:

This the problem, how do you choose the fitter?

Always a problem, the only real way to find any trader is word of
mouth.

And if your order from Howdens is linked to him, How do you replace him
part way through the job if he is a useless ****er?

You get an account with Howdens, use their design service etc order
and get supplied the stuff and contract the fitter of your choice to
do the work. Be aware that Howdens units are not flat packed...

That's what all the fitters want - they don't want to be spending time
making up units that could be pre-assembled in a factory

Though god knows how much of a faff fitting on the decor panels is.

Anyhow my trip to Wren taught me 2 (well 3 actually) things

1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

(and 3) Wren use the stupid "make up a silly price and then give you a mega
discount model")

To get wall corner cupboards I had to go up the price range with Wren and
the price became silly money.

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

tim

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 22:17:22 -0000, tim... wrote:

Perhaps you should tell Howdens you are a fitter and ask for a
quote.

I think they require a bit more evidence than you just turning up
pretending.

Or say you are going to DIY and can I have an account please.

their company policy says - NO (we do not sell our kitchens to people
wanting to DIY)

That you may get an individual manager to do this, is just luck.

tim

tim... posted

Anyhow my trip to Wren taught me 2 (well 3 actually) things

1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

(and 3) Wren use the stupid "make up a silly price and then give you a
mega discount model")

To get wall corner cupboards I had to go up the price range with Wren
and the price became silly money.

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

Huh? I have a Howdens kitchen that has both.

--
Jack

"Handsome Jack" wrote in message
...
tim... posted

Anyhow my trip to Wren taught me 2 (well 3 actually) things

1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

(and 3) Wren use the stupid "make up a silly price and then give you a
mega discount model")

To get wall corner cupboards I had to go up the price range with Wren and
the price became silly money.

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

Huh? I have a Howdens kitchen that has both.

drawers - you are right, I someone skipped a page when I checked the
catalogue Oops!

Corner cupboards - Nope no L or "triangular" corner cupboards available.

tim

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:45:44 -0000, tim... wrote:

Be aware that Howdens units are not flat packed...

That's what all the fitters want - they don't want to be spending time
making up units that could be pre-assembled in a factory

Obviously, just a heads up that if you order a load of units your
going to need a lot of space to put them between delivery and
installation...

1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

I see drawer line base units in the Hewdons catalog both corner
(straight not L) and ordinary. There are also some corner wall units
(under "storeage" rather than "kitchen") but I can't figure out from
the line drawing of a cylindrical quadrant how they fit/work...
"Storeage" also has L corner base units with carrosell, shelf, or
full pull out shelfy thing.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 18/02/2018 12:41, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:45:44 -0000, tim... wrote:

Be aware that Howdens units are not flat packed...

That's what all the fitters want - they don't want to be spending time
making up units that could be pre-assembled in a factory

Obviously, just a heads up that if you order a load of units your
going to need a lot of space to put them between delivery and
installation...

1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

I see drawer line base units in the Hewdons catalog both corner
(straight not L) and ordinary. There are also some corner wall units
(under "storeage" rather than "kitchen") but I can't figure out from
the line drawing of a cylindrical quadrant how they fit/work...
"Storeage" also has L corner base units with carrosell, shelf, or
full pull out shelfy thing.


Have you looked at www.diy-kitchens.co.uk ?
The units are pretty good quality.
The units are not flat pack though so you will need space.

dennis@home wrote:

Have you looked at www.diy-kitchens.co.uk ?
The units are pretty good quality.

No personal experience, but they have just come out tops in a
"Which" review.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:45:44 -0000, tim... wrote:

Be aware that Howdens units are not flat packed...

That's what all the fitters want - they don't want to be spending time
making up units that could be pre-assembled in a factory

Obviously, just a heads up that if you order a load of units your
going to need a lot of space to put them between delivery and
installation...

The flat will be empty

I can't move into it until it has a new kitchen as it currently doesn't have
an old one


1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

I see drawer line base units in the Hewdons catalog

yes, my mistake.

both corner
(straight not L) and ordinary. There are also some corner wall units
(under "storeage" rather than "kitchen") but I can't figure out from
the line drawing of a cylindrical quadrant how they fit/work...
"Storeage" also has L corner base units with carrosell, shelf, or
full pull out shelfy thing.

I can see no corner wall units

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article l.net,
Dave Liquorice wrote:

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 09:45:44 -0000, tim... wrote:

Be aware that Howdens units are not flat packed...

That's what all the fitters want - they don't want to be spending time
making up units that could be pre-assembled in a factory

Obviously, just a heads up that if you order a load of units your
going to need a lot of space to put them between delivery and
installation...

+1

Ours filled up the conservatory for 6 months.

1) Not all kitchen designs offer wall corner cupboards
2) not all kitchen designs offer drawer-line base units

None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

I see drawer line base units in the Hewdons catalog both corner
(straight not L) and ordinary. There are also some corner wall units
(under "storeage" rather than "kitchen") but I can't figure out from
the line drawing of a cylindrical quadrant how they fit/work...
"Storeage" also has L corner base units with carrosell, shelf, or
full pull out shelfy thing.

SWMBO avoided the carousel and all corner unit pull out thingies,
because they waste space. We have L shaped corner units with L shaped
shelves, and doors with the 180deg hinges so when both doors are open,
you can both see and get to everything in the corner unit.

Previous kitchen had the cheap and nasty corner units, with the L split
in two and so some stuff was tucked into the back, therefore out of
sight. These are the "Oh, I didn't know we had one of those" corner
units.

which in my new kitchen is the only space that I am going to have :-)

tim

80% discount!

I think the fitter quotes you the book price, and thus has another 80% profit (as people dont like paying large amounts for the skilled fitting)

I think the quality of the fitter is more important than where you get the units from, or how near their shop is.

There must be online places where you can do initial draft designs, which can then be incrementally improved

[george]


On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 7:01:51 PM UTC, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


I later read their website which says that all the branches set their own
policy and prices ...


I have a namesake who is obviously a kitchen fitter who deals
with Howdens.

He tried to get the same email address as me but, of course,
his has a '2' appended.

About 3 - 4 years ago, someone at Howdens started leaving the
2 of his email address, so I started getting his quotes from
time to time!

They quoted 'retail' prices and his discount was 80%!

The prices he paid were very good but I don't somehow think
the quality could have matched what his customer paid, though!

The branch he used was in Stevenage, if I recall correctly.

Perhaps you should tell Howdens you are a fitter and ask for a
quote. Then tout around for a fitter to fit the stuff when it
turns up.

You pay his labour costs and save the 80% mark up!


--

Terry

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"George Miles" wrote in message
...
80% discount!

I think the fitter quotes you the book price, and thus has another 80%
profit (as people dont like paying large amounts for the skilled fitting)

I don't think you've done the maths

Book price 12 grand

discount price, 2 and a half to 3 grand (similar to offers punter will have
received from the sheds)

Guesstimate installation price 3 grand

total punter expects to pay 5-6 grand

Now, how is the installer going to sell you the kitchen at 12 grand, even if
he discounts his installation fee to zero?


I think the quality of the fitter is more important than where you get the
units from, or how near their shop is.

There must be online places where you can do initial draft designs, which
can then be incrementally improved


So far all of the online planners I have discovered are crap

tim

"Tim Streater" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
George Miles wrote:

80% discount!

I think the fitter quotes you the book price, and thus has another 80%
profit
(as people dont like paying large amounts for the skilled fitting)

I think the quality of the fitter is more important than where you get the
units from, or how near their shop is.

There must be online places where you can do initial draft designs, which
can
then be incrementally improved

Why bother with that? With at least Magnet and Wren, go into their
place with a decent measured drawing of the kitchen space, and they
will do the preliminary design (at least), FoC. I can't imagine that
the others wouldn't offer this too.

The one that I have from Wren is not in a useful form for getting other
people to quote.

It's not even in a useful form for Wren to easily modify it for different
quality doors etc

tim

tim... wrote:

The one that I have from Wren is not in a useful form for getting other
people to quote.

It's not even in a useful form for Wren to easily modify it for different
quality doors etc

We spent some time seeking offers for our kitchen redesign 10
years ago. It was an interesting experience, and the approaches
of the various companies varied wildly.

Some happily produced detailed costed designs, and had no qualms
about my keeping them. They were happy to accept input and adapt
them following feedback.

The most upmarket firm had to be pressed hard to even put on
paper the outline of their quote, to record what they were
offering in return for the vast sum they wanted me to shell out.
With little grace they produced a scruffy handwritten note. I got
the impression they were more accustomed to being asked simply to
do the job, no questions asked.

In the end I went with a local firm, and am still happy with the
outcome, and all the design choices that we made. Even 10 years
on, I still think of it as "new".

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:53:33 -0000, tim... wrote:

I can't move into it until it has a new kitchen as it currently doesn't
have an old one

eh? Wot's wrong with a camping stove and washing up in the bathroom?

There are also some corner wall units (under "storeage" rather
than
"kitchen") but I can't figure out from the line drawing of a
cylindrical quadrant how they fit/work...

I can see no corner wall units

"The Trade Book" Autumn 2017

p38 external corner curved
p44 internal corner straight

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
idual.net...
On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 16:53:33 -0000, tim... wrote:

I can't move into it until it has a new kitchen as it currently doesn't
have an old one

eh? Wot's wrong with a camping stove and washing up in the bathroom?

There are also some corner wall units (under "storeage" rather
than
"kitchen") but I can't figure out from the line drawing of a
cylindrical quadrant how they fit/work...

I can see no corner wall units

"The Trade Book" Autumn 2017

p38 external corner curved

That's an end of line decorative cupboard

p44 internal corner straight

that not a "useful" corner unit

it a normal unit, with one door blocked off (by the cupboard next to it)

tim

tim... posted

"Handsome Jack" wrote in message
...
tim... posted
None of Howdens range offer 1 or 2 - deal breaker

Huh? I have a Howdens kitchen that has both.

drawers - you are right, I someone skipped a page when I checked the
catalogue Oops!

Corner cupboards - Nope no L or "triangular" corner cupboards available.


I'm looking at it now. The Howdens bill of materials describes it as
"1 BFY5472 Bfy Wh Nh 631 CC L Shaped Cnr Wall". Admittedly four years
ago.


--
Jack