https://resource.co/article/one-show...black-plastic-
confusion-11742

"Each year, over 1.3 billion black CPET trays are used in packaging in the
UK and, despite being technically fully recyclable, it is not currently
possible to effectively sort them from other materials at a materials
recovery or plastic recycling facility and so the trays often get sent to
landfill or incineration. The reason for this is that the main pigment
used to colour black plastic, carbon black, is not detectable by the near-
infra-red (NIR) optical sorting equipment, because it does not allow the
light to pass through.

Because of these ongoing problems with sorting black plastic, last week,
WRAP released updated guidance calling on local authorities to add black
plastics to their €œnot recycled€� lists. The statement advised local
councils to first check with their processor if black plastic can be
included in household recycling and to update their guidelines if it
cannot."

Interesting article. Our local council doesn't exclude black PET but a
cynical person might think that collecting it then sending it to land fill
might help to meet recycling targets.

If black plastic can't be recycled then I assume that it costs more to
send it for sorting and then send it to land fill than to just chuck it
straight in the waste bin.

I did note that the black plastic tray that prompted me to check this
didn't have any recycling symbol on it to identify the materials. The
cardboard sleeve said "check with your council".

The phrase "the statement advised local councils" doesn't fill me with a
lot of confidence that anything will have happened.


Cheers


Dave R


--
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On 11 Feb 2018 13:10:23 GMT
David wrote:

https://resource.co/article/one-show...black-plastic-
confusion-11742

"Each year, over 1.3 billion black CPET trays are used in packaging
in the UK and, despite being technically fully recyclable, it is not
currently possible to effectively sort them from other materials at a
materials recovery or plastic recycling facility and so the trays
often get sent to landfill or incineration. The reason for this is
that the main pigment used to colour black plastic, carbon black, is
not detectable by the near- infra-red (NIR) optical sorting
equipment, because it does not allow the light to pass through.

Because of these ongoing problems with sorting black plastic, last
week, WRAP released updated guidance calling on local authorities to
add black plastics to their €œnot recycled€� lists. The statement
advised local councils to first check with their processor if black
plastic can be included in household recycling and to update their
guidelines if it cannot."

Interesting article. Our local council doesn't exclude black PET but
a cynical person might think that collecting it then sending it to
land fill might help to meet recycling targets.

If black plastic can't be recycled then I assume that it costs more
to send it for sorting and then send it to land fill than to just
chuck it straight in the waste bin.

I did note that the black plastic tray that prompted me to check this
didn't have any recycling symbol on it to identify the materials. The
cardboard sleeve said "check with your council".

The phrase "the statement advised local councils" doesn't fill me
with a lot of confidence that anything will have happened.


Cheers


Dave R



I notice that Tesco's uses lots of that material for its ready-meal
trays, far more than Morrisons. I can't say what other large
supermarket chains use, we only have those two here.

--
Davey.

In article ,
Davey writes:

I notice that Tesco's uses lots of that material for its ready-meal
trays, far more than Morrisons. I can't say what other large
supermarket chains use, we only have those two here.

Food trays can be a nightmare to recycle.
Plastics which can be cooked in, and film covers which are strong,
thin, transparent, and airtight, result in mixtures which can't be
separated for recycling, and contaminate other recycled plastic.
Many cardboard trays can't be recycled either because of the
waterproof coating on the inside. Aluminimum foil trays could be
recycled in theory, but many facilities can't separate out any
aluminimum other than cans, and it's not suitable for microwave-
ready meals.

However, the plastics backlash will probably reverse many of the
improvements in food shelf life over recent years, which have gone
a long way to reduce food wastage.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In message , Andrew Gabriel
writes
Food trays can be a nightmare to recycle.
Plastics which can be cooked in, and film covers which are strong,
thin, transparent, and airtight, result in mixtures which can't be
separated for recycling, and contaminate other recycled plastic.

But the little black pots that rice puddings and other hot-uppable
deserts come in are ideal for mixing epoxy etc. in. Clear plastic
packaging is generally hopeless because it dissolves.

Why would anyone want to send them away for inept recycling?
--
Bill

David wrote:
https://resource.co/article/one-show...black-plastic-
confusion-11742

"Each year, over 1.3 billion black CPET trays are used in packaging in the
UK and, despite being technically fully recyclable, it is not currently
possible to effectively sort them from other materials at a materials
recovery or plastic recycling facility and so the trays often get sent to
landfill or incineration. The reason for this is that the main pigment
used to colour black plastic, carbon black, is not detectable by the near-
infra-red (NIR) optical sorting equipment, because it does not allow the
light to pass through.

Because of these ongoing problems with sorting black plastic, last week,
WRAP released updated guidance calling on local authorities to add black
plastics to their €œnot recycled€� lists. The statement advised local
councils to first check with their processor if black plastic can be
included in household recycling and to update their guidelines if it
cannot."

Interesting article. Our local council doesn't exclude black PET but a
cynical person might think that collecting it then sending it to land fill
might help to meet recycling targets.

If black plastic can't be recycled then I assume that it costs more to
send it for sorting and then send it to land fill than to just chuck it
straight in the waste bin.

I did note that the black plastic tray that prompted me to check this
didn't have any recycling symbol on it to identify the materials. The
cardboard sleeve said "check with your council".

The phrase "the statement advised local councils" doesn't fill me with a
lot of confidence that anything will have happened.

As I think were all coming to realise, plastic recycling is an absolute
shambles in this country with inconsistent advice and confusing regional
variations.

I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

Tim


--
Please don't feed the trolls

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Davey writes:

I notice that Tesco's uses lots of that material for its ready-meal
trays, far more than Morrisons. I can't say what other large
supermarket chains use, we only have those two here.

Food trays can be a nightmare to recycle.
Plastics which can be cooked in, and film covers which are strong,
thin, transparent, and airtight, result in mixtures which can't be
separated for recycling, and contaminate other recycled plastic.
Many cardboard trays can't be recycled either because of the
waterproof coating on the inside. Aluminimum foil trays could be
recycled in theory, but many facilities can't separate out any
aluminimum other than cans, and it's not suitable for microwave-
ready meals.

However, the plastics backlash will probably reverse many of the
improvements in food shelf life over recent years, which have gone
a long way to reduce food wastage.


Undoubtably, reducing plastic waste WILL cost money. But given that were
figuratively ****ting on our own doorstep at the moment with our abysmal
recycling systems, I think we have to accept that we need to spend more on
on a better solution.

Its really quite worrying to look at supermarket shelves and consider just
how many products just wouldnt exist without plastic packaging.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Sunday, 11 February 2018 22:00:17 UTC, Tim+ wrote:
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Davey writes:

I notice that Tesco's uses lots of that material for its ready-meal
trays, far more than Morrisons. I can't say what other large
supermarket chains use, we only have those two here.

Food trays can be a nightmare to recycle.
Plastics which can be cooked in, and film covers which are strong,
thin, transparent, and airtight, result in mixtures which can't be
separated for recycling, and contaminate other recycled plastic.
Many cardboard trays can't be recycled either because of the
waterproof coating on the inside. Aluminimum foil trays could be
recycled in theory, but many facilities can't separate out any
aluminimum other than cans, and it's not suitable for microwave-
ready meals.

However, the plastics backlash will probably reverse many of the
improvements in food shelf life over recent years, which have gone
a long way to reduce food wastage.


Undoubtably, reducing plastic waste WILL cost money. But given that were
figuratively ****ting on our own doorstep at the moment with our abysmal
recycling systems, I think we have to accept that we need to spend more on
on a better solution.

I don't think that can be assumed. Look at kamakatsu's recycling system.


Its really quite worrying to look at supermarket shelves and consider just
how many products just wouldnt exist without plastic packaging.

Tim

The amount of packaging is excessive though. Semi-rigid plastic dishes could be replaced with plastic film bags. Cardboard sleeves could be replaced with white plastic film, which can be one side of the bag.


NT

On 11/02/2018 22:00, Tim+ wrote:

Its really quite worrying to look at supermarket shelves and consider just
how many products just wouldnt exist without plastic packaging.

Look at a supermarket shelf and see how many items a double or triple
packed.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 11/02/2018 22:00, Tim+ wrote:

I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

There is a good chance that the waste isn't SORTED in your area - its
possible driven 100 miles before being sorted.


--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 11/02/18 22:00, Tim+ wrote:
I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus

I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

At our tip there's a bin for "wood and timber". Eh? Of course the thing is full of chipboard

After serious thinking The Natural Philosopher wrote :
In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.

Here they have bins for clear and coloured glass. I wonder who then
sort the brown, the green from all of the other colours?

On 12/02/2018 06:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/18 22:00, Tim+ wrote:
I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my
area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

Most of the plastics marked with the recycling symbol can be recycled
except for the black stuff which defeats the sorting machines. However,
until very recently most of it was just shipped off to China to sort.

In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its not.

Clear glass which is purer maintains a premium price but only if there
is enough of it to be worth keeping it separate.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.

More problematic is paper and cardboard which almost never comes close
to covering the cost of collecting it! Worse if it gets damp it has to
be discarded anyway. Our blue recyling bins have partly concave lids
which collect rainwater and when you open the bin tips some inside!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 12/02/2018 07:23, stuart noble wrote:

I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

At our tip there's a bin for "wood and timber". Eh? Of course the thing is full of chipboard

It is likely going to end up in an incinerator so that doesn't matter.
They don't like fabrics in there at all as it clogs up the smashing up
mechanism on the input to the fuel hopper.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Brown wrote:
On 12/02/2018 06:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/18 22:00, Tim+ wrote:
I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my
area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

Most of the plastics marked with the recycling symbol can be recycled
except for the black stuff which defeats the sorting machines. However,
until very recently most of it was just shipped off to China to sort.

Having the recycling symbol doesn't necessarily mean your local
council will recycle it. For example polystyrene may well have a
recycling symbol on it but many councils won't take it.

It's on of my pet hates, packaging that says 'plastic - check local
recycling', without knowing what sort of plastic one *can't* check.



In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its not.

Clear glass which is purer maintains a premium price but only if there
is enough of it to be worth keeping it separate.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.

More problematic is paper and cardboard which almost never comes close
to covering the cost of collecting it! Worse if it gets damp it has to
be discarded anyway. Our blue recyling bins have partly concave lids
which collect rainwater and when you open the bin tips some inside!

We can put shredded paper and cardboard in the brown bin for
composting, so most of our cartons at least go that way.

--
Chris Green
·

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 09:28:48 +0000, Chris Green wrote:

It's on of my pet hates, packaging that says 'plastic - check local
recycling', without knowing what sort of plastic one *can't* check.

Was that meant to be a pun?

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On 12/02/2018 08:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
After serious thinking The Natural Philosopher wrote :
In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its
not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.

Here they have bins for clear and coloured glass. I wonder who then sort
the brown, the green from all of the other colours?

Recycling centres can sort plastic and glass by colour automatically
these days.

They can even separate the PET bottles from the caps as the bottles sink
in water and the caps float.

On 12/02/2018 09:15, Martin Brown wrote:

More problematic is paper and cardboard which almost never comes close
to covering the cost of collecting it! Worse if it gets damp it has to
be discarded anyway. Our blue recyling bins have partly concave lids
which collect rainwater and when you open the bin tips some inside!


I didn't know about damp stuff being discarded. I suppose that is
because it becomes difficult to pre-sort; presumably the "good stuff"
ends up being pulped.

Our paper and cardboard just goes in open topped "storage box" type
boxes. I saw a quote somewhere that in our area, only the cardboard
returns a "profit". I keep a bin in the kitchen, but it fills up in a
week and has to go outside in the rain for the second week.

They have recently started collecting food waste, which I assume goes to
a digester (or perhaps to compost?) A big incinerator is currently under
construction, I assume that is to burn unrecyclably plastic and things
like Costa coffee mugs. In spite of having quite a lot of literature
about what goes into which box, our council is not good at explaining
what we might do to help.

On 12/02/2018 09:18, Martin Brown wrote:
On 12/02/2018 07:23, stuart noble wrote:

I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in
my area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

At our tip there's a bin for "wood and timber". Eh? Of course the
thing is full of chipboard

It is likely going to end up in an incinerator so that doesn't matter.
They don't like fabrics in there at all as it clogs up the smashing up
mechanism on the input to the fuel hopper.

Chipboard is "wood" at our tip too. No local incinerator yet, I'd
assumed it all went to chipboard.

On 12/02/2018 06:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/18 22:00, Tim+ wrote:
I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my
area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.


Oh well, at least it is not all decided by Brussels. Or even London.

On 12/02/2018 02:09, alan_m wrote:
On 11/02/2018 22:00, Tim+ wrote:

Its really quite worrying to look at supermarket shelves and consider
just
how many products just wouldnt exist without plastic packaging.

Look at a supermarket shelf and see how many items a double or triple
packed.

I'm still inclined to believe that Supermarkets know their business, and
will be going for lowest overall cost while remaining legal.

On Monday, 12 February 2018 16:07:46 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 12/02/2018 02:09, alan_m wrote:
On 11/02/2018 22:00, Tim+ wrote:

Its really quite worrying to look at supermarket shelves and consider
just
how many products just wouldnt exist without plastic packaging.

Look at a supermarket shelf and see how many items a double or triple
packed.

I'm still inclined to believe that Supermarkets know their business,

definitely

and
will be going for lowest overall cost while remaining legal.

It's mostly it's about how can we bs the customer into paying more for this..


NT

On 12/02/2018 06:06, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/02/18 22:00, Tim+ wrote:
I would love to know more about how waste is sorted and recycled in my
area
so that I can make informed decisions about exactly what I can put in my
recycling bin. Alas, that information isnt available to Joe Public.

In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.



As I've posted before - Roadside collection bins around my way require
glass to be sorted by colour. When it comes to collection they use the
crane to lift each bin in turn and just drop the contents into the back
of the truck mixing the colours.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 12/02/2018 09:28, Chris Green wrote:

We can put shredded paper and cardboard in the brown bin for
composting, so most of our cartons at least go that way.


All my cardboard and shredded paper goes in my own compost bins.

I leave cardboard in a neat pile until after it has been raining.
Removing parcel tape etc. from wet card is easy. Unfortunately a lot of
cardboard these days is covered in plastic which may not be evident
until the underlying card is wet and the plastic film can be pealed
away. I've found that removing the plastic film before composting is a
lot quicker than picking out pieces of plastic film from the final compost.

On a general point. Rubbish regularly blows into my front garden and as
often as once a day I go out and collect it. A decade or more ago much
of this rubbish was the light weight film used to wrap cigarette
packets. These days I see little of this - an upside of fewer people
smoking?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Mon, 12 Feb 2018 16:04:06 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip

Chipboard is "wood" at our tip too. No local incinerator yet, I'd
assumed it all went to chipboard.

The last time I went to ours there were two wood skips, one was for
chipboard (that they would stack in flat sheets so would end up solid
skip of chipboard!) and another for any other clean / constructional /
furniture timber. Tree wood went in the green waste. Fences, sheds and
any other treated timber went into the general waste skip I think.

I can't remember if they treated MDF different to either of the woods
but I don't think it went in with woodchip.

Cheers, T i m

On 12/02/2018 15:16, dennis@home wrote:
On 12/02/2018 08:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
After serious thinking The Natural Philosopher wrote :
In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its
not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.

Here they have bins for clear and coloured glass. I wonder who then
sort the brown, the green from all of the other colours?

Recycling centres can sort plastic and glass by colour automatically
these days.

They can even separate the PET bottles from the caps as the bottles sink
in water and the caps float.

What about the collars on the neck that form part of the tamper evident
seal? With a plastic bottle they may be a different plastic and with a
glass bottle they can be plastic or metal. The metal ones can be quite a
long sleeve. Do they separate the parts after crushing them?

--
Max Demian

On 12/02/2018 08:28, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
After serious thinking The Natural Philosopher wrote :
In a village 4 miles away, glass is sorted by colour. In this one its
not.

Ther is no rhyme or reason.

Here they have bins for clear and coloured glass. I wonder who then sort
the brown, the green from all of the other colours?

They don't - there is a premium for clear glass only.
Green, dirty green or brown doesn't really matter.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown