It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 06 Feb 2018 23:50:49 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

Oh my! Nice tidy work there!



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On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 23:50:49 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

It does turn to spaghetie quickly, I've got a 'orrible mess that will
be under a floor that really needs sorting out. CH flow/ret that
splits, H & C water, rising main, cold feed bank from tanks, that
splits...

I'm sure you have a cunning plan but how do you access those valves
when the bath is in place (I'm assuming the two vertical unconnected
valves are for the bath) And none of the levers foul the studwork,
anti-clock on for the one blue that is off?

I've also come to the conclusion that service valves per fitting is a
waste of valves and effort fitting them. Just fit one in each supply
for a given room. After all if you have the place apart doing things
it's not likely that the room will be "in service".

--
Cheers
Dave.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and fit
hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two loos
each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns into
quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png



I do hope that that's NOT gas coming in on the yellow ball cock lower right


Andrew

"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 23:50:49 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

It does turn to spaghetie quickly, I've got a 'orrible mess that will
be under a floor that really needs sorting out. CH flow/ret that
splits, H & C water, rising main, cold feed bank from tanks, that
splits...

I'm sure you have a cunning plan but how do you access those valves
when the bath is in place (I'm assuming the two vertical unconnected
valves are for the bath) And none of the levers foul the studwork,
anti-clock on for the one blue that is off?

I've also come to the conclusion that service valves per fitting is a
waste of valves and effort fitting them. Just fit one in each supply
for a given room. After all if you have the place apart doing things
it's not likely that the room will be "in service".

+1 - I went down the "manifolds for hot & cold distribution" route
here, so each applicable room can be isolated separately.


Seems to work out ok plus I'm done with those screwdriver iso
valves that start weeping after one or operations!

I considered the pumped dhw "ring main" too but the extra (install
& ongoing) costs didn't appeal.
--
Jim K


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In message , John
Rumm writes
It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

Hmm.. copper knitting..

My proposed set is not yet clear in my head:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 23:50:49 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

It does turn to spaghetie quickly, I've got a 'orrible mess that will
be under a floor that really needs sorting out. CH flow/ret that
splits, H & C water, rising main, cold feed bank from tanks, that
splits...

Huh! I'll put up some photos of my underfloor heating manifolds if you
want to see *mess*.

I'm sure you have a cunning plan but how do you access those valves
when the bath is in place (I'm assuming the two vertical unconnected
valves are for the bath) And none of the levers foul the studwork,
anti-clock on for the one blue that is off?

I've also come to the conclusion that service valves per fitting is a
waste of valves and effort fitting them. Just fit one in each supply
for a given room. After all if you have the place apart doing things
it's not likely that the room will be "in service".

Several thoughts on service valves. Concur on one per room but only if
you have suitable alternative facilities. Water regs.(I think) call for
a service valve fitted to each cistern controlled by a ball valve so you
may as well fit that locally if possible.

Throttling high pressure water flow is noisy so perhaps best to avoid
cheap, non full flow versions.


--
Tim Lamb

On 07/02/2018 09:15, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 23:50:49 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

It does turn to spaghetie quickly, I've got a 'orrible mess that will
be under a floor that really needs sorting out. CH flow/ret that
splits, H & C water, rising main, cold feed bank from tanks, that
splits...

There is as much again going on under the floor!

I'm sure you have a cunning plan but how do you access those valves
when the bath is in place

Easy enough - the bath is actually to the left of that stud wall with
one face missing on the left. The pair of 22mm feeds running to the left
are for the bath.

If you look at:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...PlanLayout.png

The pipe photo shows the view as if one were looking at the top right
hand basin (i.e. other side of the back wall of the shower in the
adjacent bathroom).

Unlike the plan, I am enclosing that space in a shallow 5" deep cupboard
that will stand a bit taller than the basin, and create a small shelf
space behind it (that way I can stick a cabinet above the basin without
it being so "in your face" as when the basin is right back against the
wall). A door to the side (or sides) of the basin's pedestal will allow
access to all the valves.

(I'm assuming the two vertical unconnected
valves are for the bath).

No those are for the basin, and are spaced either side of the waste pipe
you can see sticking out of the floor (although you can't really just
the spacing from the photo). They will poke through the enclosed bit to
just behind the basin pedestal.

And none of the levers foul the studwork,

They don't - although the bottom right leaver valve is rotated at a
slight angle so it misses the upright.

anti-clock on for the one blue that is off?

There are two blue ones - the one on the horizontal 22mm run that then
connects to the bent 22mm is currently off since it terminates in an
open pipe at the mo. (There is a second on the pipe in the centre
section that comes up out of the floor - that is on, and is a master
valve that will shut the who first storey hot supply off (no longer
strictly needed - but it did not seem worth removing))

I've also come to the conclusion that service valves per fitting is a
waste of valves and effort fitting them. Just fit one in each supply
for a given room. After all if you have the place apart doing things
it's not likely that the room will be "in service".

I considered that - it would have been easier. But I wanted to allow for
things like when you get a shower valve or appliance that needs shutting
off because of a fault - its handy to be able to isolate just it when it
might be some days before you can fix it.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/02/2018 09:58, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message l.net,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Tue, 6 Feb 2018 23:50:49 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

I've also come to the conclusion that service valves per fitting is a
waste of valves and effort fitting them. Just fit one in each supply
for a given room. After all if you have the place apart doing things
it's not likely that the room will be "in service".

Several thoughts on service valves. Concur on one per room but only if
you have suitable alternative facilities. Water regs.(I think) call for
a service valve fitted to each cistern controlled by a ball valve so you
may as well fit that locally if possible.

Yup, those will be local. As are the ones for the bath and basin in the
adjacent room.

Throttling high pressure water flow is noisy so perhaps best to avoid
cheap, non full flow versions.

All the valves I have used are full bore - part of the objective to make
everything quieter (I also managed to eliminate lots of "spaghetti"
piping, stubs and dead legs under the floor, and use pipe bends rather
than elbows etc in many cases).

I have also included a pressure reduction valve on the cold just after
the master valve[1]. That is set to limit it to about 3.5 bar to match
the pressure set on the inlet PRV on the unvented cylinder. It also
makes things like cistern refills a bit quieter than running off the 6
bar incoming main directly.


[1] There is a "balanced" cold feed available from the cylinder's PRV,
but I did not have a 22mm pipe available to bring that upstairs, so an
additional PRV was easier than getting in a new pipe run.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 07/02/2018 09:19, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it
turns into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png



I do hope that that's NOT gas coming in on the yellow ball cock lower
right

Could explain the smell of gas when you run a bath ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 07/02/2018 09:19, Andrew Mawson wrote:
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...

It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it
turns into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png



I do hope that that's NOT gas coming in on the yellow ball cock lower
right

Could explain the smell of gas when you run a bath ;-)

Other knitting:-)

https://ibb.co/album/iy6JVa

--
Tim Lamb

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:54:08 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Unlike the plan, I am enclosing that space in a shallow 5" deep cupboard
that will stand a bit taller than the basin, and create a small shelf
space behind it (that way I can stick a cabinet above the basin without
it being so "in your face" as when the basin is right back against the
wall). A door to the side (or sides) of the basin's pedestal will allow
access to all the valves.
May be of interest to others, when I installed a new wash basin
against a stud wall, above it I set a slim bathroom cabinet (found one
the right depth in a local shed) INTO the hollow stud wall, so that
only the mirror doors project from the face of the wall. Looks quite
good - to my and SWMBO's mind.

On 08/02/2018 09:56, Davidm wrote:
On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:54:08 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Unlike the plan, I am enclosing that space in a shallow 5" deep cupboard
that will stand a bit taller than the basin, and create a small shelf
space behind it (that way I can stick a cabinet above the basin without
it being so "in your face" as when the basin is right back against the
wall). A door to the side (or sides) of the basin's pedestal will allow
access to all the valves.

May be of interest to others, when I installed a new wash basin
against a stud wall, above it I set a slim bathroom cabinet (found one
the right depth in a local shed) INTO the hollow stud wall, so that
only the mirror doors project from the face of the wall. Looks quite
good - to my and SWMBO's mind.


That's quite a neat option. If one extends the concept a bit, in many
cases there would be nothing stopping you fitting a wider one in the
same if you cut a section of of a stud, and ran trimmers out to the
remaining studs either side.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Davidm Wrote in message:
On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 10:54:08 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Unlike the plan, I am enclosing that space in a shallow 5" deep cupboard
that will stand a bit taller than the basin, and create a small shelf
space behind it (that way I can stick a cabinet above the basin without
it being so "in your face" as when the basin is right back against the
wall). A door to the side (or sides) of the basin's pedestal will allow
access to all the valves.
May be of interest to others, when I installed a new wash basin
against a stud wall, above it I set a slim bathroom cabinet (found one
the right depth in a local shed) INTO the hollow stud wall, so that
only the mirror doors project from the face of the wall. Looks quite
good - to my and SWMBO's mind.


My parents Victorian house had the same idea but in a masonry wall
between bathroom & bog room. As I recall if you had the heavy
mirrored cabinet door open to retrieve eg toothpaste etc, you
could tell if the bog was "in use".... :-)
--
Jim K


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On 06/02/18 23:50, John Rumm wrote:
It all seemed straight forward in my head... its only when you try and
fit hot and cold feeds for two showers, two baths, two basins, and two
loos each with service valves into a bit of stud wall you find it turns
into quite a complicated mess of pipes!

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/...erBagpipes.png

Was the design inspired by that Windows screensaver many years ago?

--

Jeff

On Thu, 08 Feb 2018 09:56:29 +0000
Davidm wrote:

May be of interest to others, when I installed a new wash basin
against a stud wall, above it I set a slim bathroom cabinet (found one
the right depth in a local shed) INTO the hollow stud wall, so that
only the mirror doors project from the face of the wall. Looks quite
good - to my and SWMBO's mind.

The problem with that is that there's the same setup in the flat next
door, and the bad guys just have to remove the cabinets in order to come
and get you ... what was that movie?