I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day. Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?


NT

On Friday, 19 January 2018 04:47:06 UTC, tabby wrote:

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day. Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?


NT

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a8i35i.jpg

On 19/01/2018 04:51, wrote:
On Friday, 19 January 2018 04:47:06 UTC, tabby wrote:

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day. Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

What does the adjuster do? Usually it shortens the effective length of
the balance spring to make it go faster (I think).

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a8i35i.jpg

Five minutes a day sounds like much beyond the range of the adjuster, so
I think there must be something else wrong with it.

--
Max Demian

On Friday, 19 January 2018 15:55:23 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 19/01/2018 04:51, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 19 January 2018 04:47:06 UTC, tabby wrote:

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day. Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

What does the adjuster do? Usually it shortens the effective length of
the balance spring to make it go faster (I think).

yes, standard mechanism in that respect.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a8i35i.jpg

Five minutes a day sounds like much beyond the range of the adjuster, so
I think there must be something else wrong with it.

Ah. I'll take a look & see if disassembly is something I could realistically do.


NT

On 19/01/2018 04:51, wrote:
On Friday, 19 January 2018 04:47:06 UTC, tabby wrote:

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day. Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?


NT

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a8i35i.jpg

There isn't a speed adjusting screw - you must be loosening the pivot
screw which has a conical hole in the end in which runs the pointed
shaft of the balance wheel. Any more turns and the wheel will fall out.

Speed is adjusted by moving the lever that has a slot constraining the
spring. Move the lever to lengthen the length of moving spring to slow
the balance.
--
Dave W

On Saturday, 20 January 2018 00:22:11 UTC, Dave W wrote:
On 19/01/2018 04:51, tabbypurr wrote:
On Friday, 19 January 2018 04:47:06 UTC, tabby wrote:


I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day. Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?

http://i63.tinypic.com/2a8i35i.jpg

There isn't a speed adjusting screw - you must be loosening the pivot
screw which has a conical hole in the end in which runs the pointed
shaft of the balance wheel. Any more turns and the wheel will fall out.

very funny

Speed is adjusted by moving the lever that has a slot constraining the
spring. Move the lever to lengthen the length of moving spring to slow
the balance.

and that spring restrainer is adjusted by a screw.


NT

I had a remmington clock that did this, it in the end ended up in the bin. I
have no real idea but I suspected that the and timing inside were erratic
for some reason and hence no matter what you did it varied wildly. It could
have been the escapement and gearing of course, but either way clocks of
this kind are mega cheap.

I used to know a source for the actual mechanisms but they are no longer
around.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw
has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on
the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone
anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be
solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?


NT

I never did figure out what the transistor actually did in these clocks , by
the way.
Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
I had a remmington clock that did this, it in the end ended up in the bin.
I have no real idea but I suspected that the and timing inside were erratic
for some reason and hence no matter what you did it varied wildly. It
could have been the escapement and gearing of course, but either way clocks
of this kind are mega cheap.

I used to know a source for the actual mechanisms but they are no longer
around.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
wrote in message
...
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw
has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run
on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone
anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to
be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?


NT

On Friday, 19 January 2018 07:36:47 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw
has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on
the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone
anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this ought to be
solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing here?


NT

I had a remmington clock that did this, it in the end ended up in the bin. I
have no real idea but I suspected that the and timing inside were erratic
for some reason and hence no matter what you did it varied wildly. It could
have been the escapement and gearing of course, but either way clocks of
this kind are mega cheap.

I used to know a source for the actual mechanisms but they are no longer
around.
Brian

It's not erratic, nor is it cheap. It's a historic rarity. Otherwise I'd have binned it or fitted a quartz mechanism.


NT

laid this down on his screen :
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw
has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on
the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise
about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that
clock might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or
its some fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
laid this down on his screen :
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting
screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the
threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it,
it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that clock
might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or its some
fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.


Does the movement use an electromagnet?

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:40:44 +1100, FMurtz
wrote:

Harry Bloomfield wrote:
laid this down on his screen :
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting
screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the
threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it,
it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that clock
might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or its some
fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.


Does the movement use an electromagnet?

Some background info here http://bit.ly/2FRlaKN

I asked because that would explain the transistor(for switching)

On Friday, 19 January 2018 12:36:55 UTC, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tabbypurr laid this down on his screen :

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw
has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on
the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise
about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that
clock might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or
its some fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.

Patent 2942205 filed 1955 explains the transistor mechanism better than I can.

It hadn't occurred to me that stiffness might speed it up. Judging rather roughly by eye it looks like the balance wheel swings about a quarter of a turn in each swing. What would be a suitable lube?


NT

On Friday, 19 January 2018 15:24:44 UTC, tabby wrote:
On Friday, 19 January 2018 12:36:55 UTC, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tabbypurr laid this down on his screen :

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting screw
has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the threads run on
the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it, it's gone anticlockwise
about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that
clock might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or
its some fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.

Patent 2942205 filed 1955 explains the transistor mechanism better than I can.

It hadn't occurred to me that stiffness might speed it up. Judging rather roughly by eye it looks like the balance wheel swings about a quarter of a turn in each swing. What would be a suitable lube?


NT

Yet wikipedia says...
"Balance wheels rotate about 1½ turns with each swing, that is, about 270° to each side of their center equilibrium position."
I don't see how that would be compatible with the transistorised drive though.


NT

On 19/01/2018 12:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
laid this down on his screen :
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting
screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the
threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it,
it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that clock
might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or its some
fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.

The ticking speed should not depend on the amplitude of swing. It's like
a pendulum that swings less as the driving spring runs down, but
maintains the rate. That's the whole point of a pendulum and gravity, or
balance wheel with hairspring.
--
Dave W

On Saturday, 20 January 2018 00:28:53 UTC, Dave W wrote:
On 19/01/2018 12:36, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
tabbypurr laid this down on his screen :

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting
screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the
threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it,
it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

Gaining, usually means the balance wheel is not swinging far enough on
each stroke. adding more weight will not help. That suggests the
lubrication has dried out and become sticky. It needs stripping,
cleaning and re-lubricating.

I have no idea where the transistor might be involved, unless that clock
might be designed to be a master clock feeding other slaves, or its some
fancy electrical winding/escapment mechanism.

The ticking speed should not depend on the amplitude of swing. It's like
a pendulum that swings less as the driving spring runs down, but
maintains the rate. That's the whole point of a pendulum and gravity, or
balance wheel with hairspring.

Of course. But if a mechanical fault such as friction were reducing the swing greatly that could affect the period.

It looks moot in that I'm confident it can now be adjusted correctly. We shall see whether it keeps consistent time, but it looks like it does, if so then the short swing is likely by design. I doubt wiki's quoted 1.5 turn swing would be compatible with the drive system.


NT

On 19/01/2018 04:47, wrote:
I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting
screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the
threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it,
it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this
ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing
here?

Can you check the spring is free from fouling itself, or anything else?
5 minutes is a lot to lose in a day.

Also make sure there is no oil on the spring, if you've happened to oil
the movement recently.

In article ,
says...


Also make sure there is no oil on the spring, if you've happened to oil
the movement recently.


Seconded - I've known of problems with excess oil on the hair
spring before.


--

Terry

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http://www.avg.com

On 19/01/2018 18:57, Terry Casey wrote:
In article ,
says...


Also make sure there is no oil on the spring, if you've happened to oil
the movement recently.


Seconded - I've known of problems with excess oil on the hair
spring before.


I would give more attention to the hairspring, as mentioned lack of lub
can shorten the beat also a spring that loses some `tension` will not
swing as far thus shortening the beat making it go faster. If any of the
`layers` of the spring touch one another that can also cause it.

On Friday, 19 January 2018 18:33:25 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
On 19/01/2018 04:47, tabbypurr wrote:

I have a 1 transistor balance wheel clock that gains 5 minutes a day.
Repeated adjustment over about 3 turns so far of the speed adjusting
screw has made no noticeable difference. I can't tell which way the
threads run on the screw, and thus which way I should be turning it,
it's gone anticlockwise about 3 turns.

If all else fails I can always add weight to the wheel, but this
ought to be solvable a lot more easily & elegantly. What am I missing
here?

Can you check the spring is free from fouling itself, or anything else?
5 minutes is a lot to lose in a day.

Also make sure there is no oil on the spring, if you've happened to oil
the movement recently.

The spring is all placed correctly, no fouling. I've not oiled anything and don't see any oil anywhere.

OK we have good news. Today it gained 10 minutes a day not 5. This means
a) I've been adjusting it in the wrong direction
b) the scope of adjustment does cover this much variation


NT