Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?
--
Tim Lamb

On 12/01/18 20:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Can you keep them and clad them?

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:01:18 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Choose a cheaper timber? Mind you there is a lot of work in
consructing a staircase...

--
Cheers
Dave.

Tim Lamb wrote:

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!
Anyone found a cheaper way?

Have a play with the designer here ...

e.g. for all oak, with handrail/baluster to one side is £250 cheaper,
tweak about with sizes and what bits you want in various materials

http://www.stairbox.com/stairbuilder-staircase-designer/?dmVyc2lvbjIuMy11ay0yNjAwLTEzLTIyMi4xMi04NjUtODY1L Tg2NS1ub25lLTNfd2luZGVyLW5vbmUtM193aW5kZXItTmFOLU5 hTi1sZWZ0LWZ1bGwtbm9uZS1vYWstc3F1YXJlLTAtMC0wLTAtM C1vYWstb2FrLW9hay1vYWstb2FrLWFzc2VtYmxlZC1jb2xsZWN 0ZWQtLWZhbHNlLTEtMC0wLTEtMC1ub25lLTAtMC0xLTAtbm9uZ S0wLTEtMC0xLTAtMS0wLTAtMC0xLTAtMC0wLTEtMC0wLTAtMS0 wLXN0cmFpZ2h0LTAtMC0wLTAtU1RELS1mYWxzZS1TcXVhcmVTc GluZGxlLTQxLTE0MC01OC0wLTA=

On Friday, 12 January 2018 20:01:33 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
�1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Sure. Find a tree, cut it down...


NT

In message ,
writes
On Friday, 12 January 2018 20:01:33 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
0
Anyone found a cheaper way?

Sure. Find a tree, cut it down...

Been there. Sadly the Lucas mill used to convert had a max cutting depth
of 200mm. With a blunt blade would only cut 150mm reliably.

Just about seasoned now but an awful lot of jointing to get a step
width.

The one in the farmhouse is nice although not entirely to building regs.
Twin centre spine with chunky, no riser, steps. Parana Pine so not
repeatable.

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Andy Burns
writes
Tim Lamb wrote:

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800! Anyone found a cheaper way?

Have a play with the designer here ...

e.g. for all oak, with handrail/baluster to one side is £250 cheaper,
tweak about with sizes and what bits you want in various materials

http://www.stairbox.com/stairbuilder...dmVyc2lvbjIuMy
11ay0yNjAwLTEzLTIyMi4xMi04NjUtODY1LTg2NS1ub25lLTN fd2luZGVyLW5vbmUtM193aW
5kZXItTmFOLU5hTi1sZWZ0LWZ1bGwtbm9uZS1vYWstc3F1YXJ lLTAtMC0wLTAtMC1vYWstb2
LW9hay1vYWstb2FrLWFzc2VtYmxlZC1jb2xsZWN0ZWQtLWZhb HNlLTEtMC0wLTEtMC1ub25l
LTAtMC0xLTAtbm9uZS0wLTEtMC0xLTAtMS0wLTAtMC0xLTAtM C0wLTEtMC0wLTAtMS0wLXN0
cmFpZ2h0LTAtMC0wLTAtU1RELS1mYWxzZS1TcXVhcmVTcGluZ GxlLTQxLTE0MC01OC0wLTA=

Hmm.. £1100 without newel or banister. No option for open plan or half
riser and I'm not sure what they mean by *engineered Oak*.

This what I would like:-)
http://www.stairplan.com/boston-oak-...staircase.html

--
Tim Lamb

On 12/01/2018 22:40, Tim Lamb wrote:

Hmm.. £1100 without newel or banister. No option for open plan or half
riser and I'm not sure what they mean by *engineered Oak*.

Engineered oak usually means real oak facing glued to a composite (ply
or mdf) core.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 12/01/2018 20:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Probably not that bad if real oak...

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Only if you build it yourself from scratch... (which last time I did it,
I actually quite enjoyed)

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:

Tim Lamb wrote:

I'm not sure what they mean by *engineered Oak*.

Engineered oak usually means real oak facing glued to a composite (ply
or mdf) core.

They do say that the treads are 22mm, but the 22mm risers only have a
9mm oak veneer, so maybe the other 'engineered' oak is finger jointed?

On 12/01/18 22:40, Tim Lamb wrote:
I'm not sure what they mean by *engineered Oak*.

Plywood made of layers of at least oak on the surface


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

On Friday, 12 January 2018 22:41:08 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes
On Friday, 12 January 2018 20:01:33 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:

Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
0
Anyone found a cheaper way?

Sure. Find a tree, cut it down...

Been there. Sadly the Lucas mill used to convert had a max cutting depth
of 200mm. With a blunt blade would only cut 150mm reliably.

Just about seasoned now but an awful lot of jointing to get a step
width.

The one in the farmhouse is nice although not entirely to building regs.
Twin centre spine with chunky, no riser, steps. Parana Pine so not
repeatable.

Maybe time for a £100 alaskan mill.
There are ways to do stairs relatively cheaply. Just spend ages googling for images.


NT

On Friday, 12 January 2018 20:53:50 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:01:18 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Choose a cheaper timber? Mind you there is a lot of work in
consructing a staircase...


I have made several.
No problem. Most cost less than £50.

Hmm, are you sure about that? Did you cost your time?

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 12 January 2018 20:53:50 UTC, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:01:18 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Choose a cheaper timber? Mind you there is a lot of work in
consructing a staircase...


I have made several.
No problem. Most cost less than £50.

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 12/01/2018 20:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Probably not that bad if real oak...

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Hmm.. the stair sites claim selected White Oak and disparage Red. I've
only seen it used as trailer flooring and thought it uninteresting grain
wise.

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Only if you build it yourself from scratch... (which last time I did
it, I actually quite enjoyed)

Yes. I've got the tackle to do the job but time is pressing and it is a
while since I could manage an 8 hour day:-(

There is a glimmer of hope as the boss has volunteered funds:-)


--
Tim Lamb

On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:01:18 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Could you keep the stringers and strip out the backing, risers and treads
and just replace the treads and bannisters/rails with oak?

The stringers could be painted to match wall colours which would 'hide'
them and emphasise the oak used elsewhere.

In message , Mark
Allread writes
On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 20:01:18 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote:

Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Could you keep the stringers and strip out the backing, risers and treads
and just replace the treads and bannisters/rails with oak?

Yes. The idea (hers!) is to allow more light along the hall. The
existing stringers are knot free pine. However, these are cheap standard
stairs with over sized routed slots intended for glue and wedge
assembly. Fitted in 1995, the glue may resist tidy disassembly:-( The
riser slot would be too long for a half riser and lead to filling
issues.

The stringers could be painted to match wall colours which would 'hide'
them and emphasise the oak used elsewhere.

Paint has already been vetoed!

--
Tim Lamb

On 13/01/2018 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 12/01/2018 20:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Probably not that bad if real oak...

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Hmm.. the stair sites claim selected White Oak and disparage Red. I've
only seen it used as trailer flooring and thought it uninteresting grain
wise.

I was not suggesting a particular species of wood for the project - more
just illustrating that oak in general is not cheep. (Especially when you
consider American white is usually cheaper than English oak. Not sure
how Red compares price wise).

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Only if you build it yourself from scratch... (which last time I did
it, I actually quite enjoyed)

Yes. I've got the tackle to do the job but time is pressing and it is a
while since I could manage an 8 hour day:-(

For a straight run like in your picture, its a pretty easy build -
certainly not 8 hours of work for the stringers. If you go for the non
traditional "fully captive" treads and risers like in the photo, its
just a case of making a template, followed by lots of routing.

If you are buying sawn rather than prepared wood, you would spend most
of your time preparing the timber rather than making the stairs. If you
buy PAR, then you would likely have the whole thing knocked out in an
afternoon!

There is a glimmer of hope as the boss has volunteered funds:-)

That might change the cost benefit analysis ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes
On 13/01/2018 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 12/01/2018 20:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Probably not that bad if real oak...

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Hmm.. the stair sites claim selected White Oak and disparage Red. I've
only seen it used as trailer flooring and thought it uninteresting grain
wise.

I was not suggesting a particular species of wood for the project -
more just illustrating that oak in general is not cheep. (Especially
when you consider American white is usually cheaper than English oak.
Not sure how Red compares price wise).

Point taken.

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Only if you build it yourself from scratch... (which last time I did
it, I actually quite enjoyed)

Yes. I've got the tackle to do the job but time is pressing and it is a
while since I could manage an 8 hour day:-(

For a straight run like in your picture, its a pretty easy build -
certainly not 8 hours of work for the stringers. If you go for the non
traditional "fully captive" treads and risers like in the photo, its
just a case of making a template, followed by lots of routing.

I can do that bit. How do you suppose they secure the treads and half
riser? I'm guessing glue/screw with the hole disguised with a plug.

If you are buying sawn rather than prepared wood, you would spend most
of your time preparing the timber rather than making the stairs. If you
buy PAR, then you would likely have the whole thing knocked out in an
afternoon!

I have a planer although that length might be tricky.

There is a glimmer of hope as the boss has volunteered funds:-)

That might change the cost benefit analysis ;-)

Indeed! On balance I think my time better spent on other jobs. I still
have the bulk of the plumbing to do plus making and fitting doors to the
various soffit/attic spaces to say nothing of installing the kitchen and
utility tackle.



--
Tim Lamb

On Saturday, 13 January 2018 08:48:05 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, are you sure about that? Did you cost your time?

Nope.

On 13/01/2018 16:46, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 13 January 2018 08:48:05 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, are you sure about that? Did you cost your time?

Nope.


I'm still impressed.

On 12/01/2018 23:34, John Rumm wrote:

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Our neighbour has a magnificent boundary oak in his garden. Say three
hundred years old, at a guess. At those prices, the wood in it is worth
tens of thousands of pounds. Fortunately, it's subject to a TPO.

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 13/01/2018 09:19, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes
On 12/01/2018 20:01, Tim Lamb wrote:
Existing pine string with plywood risers and plasterboard back to hide
the wedges. Brown wood stain so lots of work to improve.

Budget enquiry for a replacement in Oak with semi open risers starts at
£1800!

Probably not that bad if real oak...

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Hmm.. the stair sites claim selected White Oak and disparage Red. I've
only seen it used as trailer flooring and thought it uninteresting grain
wise.

I was not suggesting a particular species of wood for the project -
more just illustrating that oak in general is not cheep. (Especially
when you consider American white is usually cheaper than English oak.
Not sure how Red compares price wise).

Point taken.

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Only if you build it yourself from scratch... (which last time I did
it, I actually quite enjoyed)

Assessing the Oak stock this afternoon. I have plenty of Oak scantling
sawn about 95mm square. I have a few knot free timbers 180x95mm. With
an awful lot of gluing and timber matching, I could copy the farmhouse
stair but with a half riser to meet BR.

Is there a best glue for Oak and does it work below 10 deg. C?

Pictures to follow..
--
Tim Lamb

In message , GB
writes
On 12/01/2018 23:34, John Rumm wrote:

(I bought some Americal White oak (kinl dried, sawn) the other day; 3
10' lengths of 6x2, and 4 8' lengths of 6 x 1.25 - did not get much
change from £400!)

Our neighbour has a magnificent boundary oak in his garden. Say three
hundred years old, at a guess. At those prices, the wood in it is worth
tens of thousands of pounds. Fortunately, it's subject to a TPO.
A few of those here. 2 to 3 hundred years. Every now and then one falls
over so I cut the limbs up for firewood and get the trunks converted. 1"
per year for air drying so I am running out of time:-)

--
Tim Lamb

In message , Tim Lamb
writes
Is there a best glue for Oak and does it work below 10 deg. C?

Pictures to follow..

And the picture... I am new to imgbb so please bear with me..



https://ibb.co/g1rt46

--
Tim Lamb

On Sat, 13 Jan 2018 08:46:13 -0800 (PST), harry wrote:

Anyone found a cheaper way?

Choose a cheaper timber? Mind you there is a lot of work in
consructing a staircase...

I have made several.

Proper ones? With tapered slots and wedges to hold the risers and
treads in place in the stringers?

No problem. Most cost less than £50.

Hmm, are you sure about that? Did you cost your time?

Nope.

So hardly a valid comparision to a cost that includes labour.

"Costing your time" is a curious one. If SWMBO'd doesn't think a task
is "worth while" she'll use "... and have you included the cost of
your time?". Then she'll nag me to say cut/split the accumulated wood
pile into bits suitable for the woodburner, because it's free...

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 13/01/2018 14:55, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes

For a straight run like in your picture, its a pretty easy build -
certainly not 8 hours of work for the stringers. If you go for the non
traditional "fully captive" treads and risers like in the photo, its
just a case of making a template, followed by lots of routing.

I can do that bit. How do you suppose they secure the treads and half
riser? I'm guessing glue/screw with the hole disguised with a plug.

I would expect so - although glue alone might do the job in a decent
depth rebate its slightly sub optimal since the grain directions don't
match.

Basically you have to fit all the treads and risers to one string, then
apply the other - creating the finished stair in one hit.

(the traditional way you can hang both strings and then fit each tread
and riser in place as you go. A traditional wedged construction is not
designed to be "seen" from the underside directly - it would normally
have a covering)

One I did ages ago:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

and a more recent one:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Swimming_Pool_Steps


If you are buying sawn rather than prepared wood, you would spend most
of your time preparing the timber rather than making the stairs. If
you buy PAR, then you would likely have the whole thing knocked out in
an afternoon!

I have a planer although that length might be tricky.

Easy enough if your boards are reasonably straight and not twisted, and
you have access to a thickness planer... more of a pain with a hand held
device.

There is a glimmer of hope as the boss has volunteered funds:-)

That might change the cost benefit analysis ;-)

Indeed! On balance I think my time better spent on other jobs. I still
have the bulk of the plumbing to do plus making and fitting doors to the
various soffit/attic spaces to say nothing of installing the kitchen and
utility tackle.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message , John
Rumm writes

One I did ages ago:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

and a more recent one:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Swimming_Pool_Steps

Hmm.. bit more than a long day in either of those:-)

Routing is not my favourite job. I couldn't afford the trend 1/2" router
so bought the Erbaur. Works OK apart from the one thing you need to be
silk slick. The plunge slide jams! No lubricant tried so far has helped.
Just about useable if I remember to load the left hand side first....

Delivery on a manufactured Oak stair is about 3 weeks so I can mull a
decision over for a long time yet.
--
Tim Lamb

On 14/01/2018 20:16, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes

One I did ages ago:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

and a more recent one:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Swimming_Pool_Steps

Hmm.. bit more than a long day in either of those:-)

The pool ones were about three half days... (mainly because I had to
glue up the strings from smaller timbers). I can't remember how long the
house ones were - I seem to recall it was about three days (excluding
balustrade) but that did include having to remake the strings when we
worked out the architect could not count, and there should have been 3
steps and not 12! (those were more complicated though since they had a
kite and winders at both top and bottom.

(Titting about with the banisters was probably another day and a half
since I was also replacing the run along the landing to match).


Routing is not my favourite job. I couldn't afford the trend 1/2" router
so bought the Erbaur. Works OK apart from the one thing you need to be
silk slick. The plunge slide jams! No lubricant tried so far has helped.
Just about useable if I remember to load the left hand side first....

Yup not ideal...


Delivery on a manufactured Oak stair is about 3 weeks so I can mull a
decision over for a long time yet.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sunday, 14 January 2018 20:16:55 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes

One I did ages ago:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

and a more recent one:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Swimming_Pool_Steps

Hmm.. bit more than a long day in either of those:-)

Routing is not my favourite job. I couldn't afford the trend 1/2" router
so bought the Erbaur. Works OK apart from the one thing you need to be
silk slick. The plunge slide jams! No lubricant tried so far has helped.
Just about useable if I remember to load the left hand side first....

Delivery on a manufactured Oak stair is about 3 weeks so I can mull a
decision over for a long time yet.

If necessary stairs can be built without routers.
One way:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Open_riser_stairs
Another is to use 2 strips of wood bonded together in lieu of each one, one with the necessary areas sawn out, the other not.

The open riser style shown is quick to built, and of course can be closed.


NT

In message ,
writes
On Sunday, 14 January 2018 20:16:55 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , John
Rumm writes

One I did ages ago:

http://www.internode.co.uk/loft/stairs.htm

and a more recent one:

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Swimming_Pool_Steps

Hmm.. bit more than a long day in either of those:-)

Routing is not my favourite job. I couldn't afford the trend 1/2" router
so bought the Erbaur. Works OK apart from the one thing you need to be
silk slick. The plunge slide jams! No lubricant tried so far has helped.
Just about useable if I remember to load the left hand side first....

Delivery on a manufactured Oak stair is about 3 weeks so I can mull a
decision over for a long time yet.

If necessary stairs can be built without routers.
I'm OK with a fully supporting template but struggle following a shape
where the shoe is resting on one side. The real answer is not to buy
cheap tools!
One way:
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Open_riser_stairs
Another is to use 2 strips of wood bonded together in lieu of each one,
one with the necessary areas sawn out, the other not.

The open riser style shown is quick to built, and of course can be closed.

Umm.. looking at the open riser style of the farmhouse stair, I doubt my
ability to accurately cut 100mm wide timber in what will be a visible
area. Some sort of *clamp on guide* ?

--
Tim Lamb