Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12
years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble
over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer
said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps
it wouldn't last more than another couple of years.

The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured
that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing
something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he
works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a
very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the
preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty
seems good.

So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Cheers,

---
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On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12
years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble
over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer
said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps
it wouldn't last more than another couple of years.

The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured
that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing
something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he
works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a
very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the
preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty
seems good.

So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Cheers,

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Keep your old boiler as long as you can.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html

On 27/12/2017 14:29, Ash Burton wrote:

Keep your old boiler as long as you can.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html

That article is somewhat misleading. Its major gripe (freezing
condensate drains stopping the boiler) is not a fault of the boiler at
all, but entirely the fault of numpty installers, who can't be bothered
to read the installation instructions. Some well known large
installation and service firms seem very keen on installing boilers in
unheated lofts and paying little attention to protecting the condensate
drain from freezing.

Secondly it falls into the normal trap of comparing old low tech cast
iron lumps with a modern condensers, noting the modern boiler is less
"reliable" and then assuming it must be because its a condenser. A much
fairer comparison would be between two modern boilers of similar
technology levels (i.e. electronic controls, pre-mix modulating burner,
fanned flue, electronic ignition etc) - where you would see comparable
reliability overall.

(a 65% efficient cast iron lump is very reliable, since there is very
little to go wrong. Feed it a new thermocouple every few years, brush
the soot out of it, and a new gas valve now and then and it will run for
decades... lobbing 35p of every quid you feed it trying to heat your
garden)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 15:21:26 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:29, Ash Burton wrote:

Keep your old boiler as long as you can.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html

That article is somewhat misleading.

I'd say most of its points are wrong, but the conclusion is generally correct. Old boilers often go on for several decades, I wouldn't pay for a new one until needed.

And it's not illegal to fit noncondensers, there are specified conditions in which you can, I don't remember them though.

Its major gripe (freezing
condensate drains stopping the boiler) is not a fault of the boiler at
all, but entirely the fault of numpty installers, who can't be bothered
to read the installation instructions. Some well known large
installation and service firms seem very keen on installing boilers in
unheated lofts and paying little attention to protecting the condensate
drain from freezing.

Secondly it falls into the normal trap of comparing old low tech cast
iron lumps with a modern condensers, noting the modern boiler is less
"reliable" and then assuming it must be because its a condenser. A much
fairer comparison would be between two modern boilers of similar
technology levels (i.e. electronic controls, pre-mix modulating burner,
fanned flue, electronic ignition etc) - where you would see comparable
reliability overall.

(a 65% efficient cast iron lump is very reliable, since there is very
little to go wrong. Feed it a new thermocouple every few years, brush
the soot out of it, and a new gas valve now and then and it will run for
decades... lobbing 35p of every quid you feed it trying to heat your
garden)

I always wondered how much one could improve iron lump efficiency by retrofitting a stirring fan. I don't plan to find out though.

Wb & Vaillant are the 2 most reliable brands in an unreliable market. I wouldn't recommend touching any of the others.


NT

Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat
reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case?
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 27/12/2017 14:29, Ash Burton wrote:

Keep your old boiler as long as you can.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html

That article is somewhat misleading. Its major gripe (freezing condensate
drains stopping the boiler) is not a fault of the boiler at all, but
entirely the fault of numpty installers, who can't be bothered to read the
installation instructions. Some well known large installation and service
firms seem very keen on installing boilers in unheated lofts and paying
little attention to protecting the condensate drain from freezing.

Secondly it falls into the normal trap of comparing old low tech cast iron
lumps with a modern condensers, noting the modern boiler is less
"reliable" and then assuming it must be because its a condenser. A much
fairer comparison would be between two modern boilers of similar
technology levels (i.e. electronic controls, pre-mix modulating burner,
fanned flue, electronic ignition etc) - where you would see comparable
reliability overall.

(a 65% efficient cast iron lump is very reliable, since there is very
little to go wrong. Feed it a new thermocouple every few years, brush the
soot out of it, and a new gas valve now and then and it will run for
decades... lobbing 35p of every quid you feed it trying to heat your
garden)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 27/12/2017 17:06, Brian Gaff wrote:

Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat
reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case?

You could argue that some of the early condensers were just that - an
additional heat exchanger glued onto the end of a conventional boiler.

ISTR my former neighbours BIASI is built like that. (and to be fair to
what was a cheap and nasty boiler, installed by a ****ed ****wit of an
installer, its still going strong 10 years later)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 17:06:15 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat
reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case?
Brian

There are other ways too to capture wasted heat from old boilers. The problem is lack of approval, the boilers aren't approved to work with them.


NT

On 27/12/2017 17:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat
reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case?
Brian

My Baxi Bermuda used flue blocks, typical of the 70's. This meant the
bedroom wall above the fire/backboiler got really hot and kept the
room warm in all but the coldest weather. Even the original installer
had fitted a radiator that was much smaller than the other bedroom.

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 27/12/2017 17:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat
reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case?
Brian

My Baxi Bermuda used flue blocks, typical of the 70's. This meant the
bedroom wall above the fire/backboiler got really hot and kept the
room warm in all but the coldest weather. Even the original installer
had fitted a radiator that was much smaller than the other bedroom.

Yes. My old Potterton RS floor stander was in the large bathroom, and kept
it nice and warm. Fine in the winter - but perhaps not so much on a hot
day when only doing the hot water.

Had to add a rad in the bathroom when I changed to a modern boiler. I'd
rather the heat goes were I want it to, since I'm paying for the gas no
matter where it goes. ;-)

--
*A conscience is what hurts when all your other parts feel so good *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

One of my friends reckons its not that they are exactly a waste of money,
its more that like many modern things the higher tech and the way they are
made makes them unlikely to last as long as an older model, and that
servicing them actually costs more as its change this whole board kind of
ethos against the just change this bit ways of old.
I guess in that regard its much like most things these days, Make to a cost
and don't make it last for ever or you will never make any dosh!

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Ash Burton" wrote in message
news
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years
old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the
years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that
although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it
wouldn't last more than another couple of years.

The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured
that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing
something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he
works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a
very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the
preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems
good.

So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might
not be in a good position financially at that time either.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Cheers,

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Keep your old boiler as long as you can.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html

In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

If you intend fitting the boiler yourself, then any savings in cost to buy
it will be passed on. If you get a plumber to fit it, he is going to want
his 'profit' one way or another. And if you supply the bits, he isn't as
responsible if anything goes wrong.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at well
below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in approx 4
years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage is higher than
average.

--
*A plateau is a high form of flattery*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/12/17 14:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote:
So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

If you intend fitting the boiler yourself, then any savings in cost to buy
it will be passed on. If you get a plumber to fit it, he is going to want
his 'profit' one way or another. And if you supply the bits, he isn't as
responsible if anything goes wrong.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at well
below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in approx 4
years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage is higher than
average.

Are you on the Gas Safe Register? Or are you considered "competent" to
fit a gas appliance? There still seems to be a good bit of confusion
around for anyone considering a DIY gas installation.

--

Jeff

In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at
well below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in
approx 4 years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage
is higher than average.

Are you on the Gas Safe Register? Or are you considered "competent" to
fit a gas appliance? There still seems to be a good bit of confusion
around for anyone considering a DIY gas installation.

I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any
inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only
know such things by a bit of paper.

--
*I don't work here. I'm a consultant

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/12/2017 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any
inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only
know such things by a bit of paper.

This statement gets my vote.

On 28/12/2017 13:15, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 28/12/2017 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any
inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only
know such things by a bit of paper.

This statement gets my vote.


I suppose I do give a stuff, but only because in theory if I install a
boiler I now ought to go to building control. Other than that most
fatalities have been caused by Gas Safe installers.

I also live in my own home, so want anything installed to be safe and
work properly.

I am certainly ****ed off with the nanny state through interest groups
like NIC and Gas Safe, such anyone doing their own work gets my vote too.

On 28/12/2017 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at
well below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in
approx 4 years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage
is higher than average.

Are you on the Gas Safe Register? Or are you considered "competent" to
fit a gas appliance? There still seems to be a good bit of confusion
around for anyone considering a DIY gas installation.

I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any
inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only
know such things by a bit of paper.

Hear, hear.

If the gas rate at the boiler maintains 20 mBar and there are no leaks
then that's it. Checking flue gases for correct combustion is the only
tricky part of modern boilers.

On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 17:54:35 +0000, Andrew
coalesced the vapors of human
experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension...

On 28/12/2017 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote:
Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at
well below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in
approx 4 years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage
is higher than average.

Are you on the Gas Safe Register? Or are you considered "competent" to
fit a gas appliance? There still seems to be a good bit of confusion
around for anyone considering a DIY gas installation.

I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any
inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only
know such things by a bit of paper.

Hear, hear.

If the gas rate at the boiler maintains 20 mBar and there are no leaks
then that's it. Checking flue gases for correct combustion is the only
tricky part of modern boilers.


I wouldn't install a boiler myself, but I do know that pressure is
expressed in mBars, and gas rate in volume/time.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote:

Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12
years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble
over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer
said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps
it wouldn't last more than another couple of years.

The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured
that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing
something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he
works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a
very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the
preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty
seems good.

So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Cheers,

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Cynical of me, but I think the incentives to buy a Baxi may be because
they are not a market leader (possibly for reasons).

We fitted a WB combi in 2005-2006 and last I heard it is still going
strong with no problems. This was condensing IIRC, with the condensate
pipe feeding into the back of the upstairs toilet. Similar age to yours as
far as I can tell.

Daughter fitted a Baxi a couple of years later because her local plumber
supplied and serviced them and it crapped out big time and has since been
replaced. Silly girl didn't have it serviced annually so didn't get a
warranty claim. Having said that we didn't have the WB serviced annually
and didn't need to claim on warranty. From my very limited experience
boiler installers tend to specialise in one model because it is easiest to
just learn one system and carry one set of spares. So the "preferred
supplier" is often the one most convenient for the installer.

Are you sure the 28 CDi is non-condensing? My GoogleFu isn't working
particularly well but I thought that range had been condensing from at
least the turn of the century.

Anyway, I would expect the boiler to have a decent life left in it, but if
it is really getting long in the tooth then a 12 year record of reasonable
service with at least another 2 years life (14 years+) seems to me to be
more of a recommendation than a 10 year warranty.

On that basis of personal bias if I were going to replace the boiler (on
the basis that if I ran it until it failed I might not then be able to
afford to replace it) I would be tempted to replace like with like.

Cheapest is not always best, neither is a bargain always one. BTDTBTS.


Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

On 27/12/17 14:37, David wrote:
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote:

We fitted a WB combi in 2005-2006 and last I heard it is still going
strong with no problems. This was condensing IIRC, with the condensate
pipe feeding into the back of the upstairs toilet. Similar age to yours as
far as I can tell.


And stay away from Alphas...

I've just put a WB 42 CDi in and I'm pretty pleased with it.

It's not the most sophisticated (no pump speed control, no weather
compensation unless you sell your soul to their internet all in one system).

But it is competent, stable, very powerful (the 42kW is the hot water -
I have used flow restrictor valves to the bath and given that half the
theoretical winter output of DHW which still fills the bath in 15 mins
or so). The idea is that when I have the shower room done, that can run
and the bath can fill at the same time.

I'm told by the plumbers that WB have good parts availability when it
does break.

My other option was a Viessmann - but they said there can be a lag on
getting parts (like days to a week rather than mostly off the shelf like
WB). However, the Viessmann boilers are better built (stainless heat
exchanger) and weather comp is "add a sensor". Downsides apart from the
alleged parts availability is the cost and the lack of a model than can
match the 42CDi for DHW.


I should add, in my case, this was a whole new system - so I could over
spec the rads to run easily within the condensing range. Most of the
year, I can run with 55/45C flow/return which is pretty cool. Right now
I have it set to about 64/54C which gives a fast heat up on a cold day
and still in condensing mode.

"David" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote:

Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12
years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble
over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer
said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps
it wouldn't last more than another couple of years.

The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured
that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing
something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he
works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a
very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the
preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty
seems good.

So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Cheers,

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Cynical of me, but I think the incentives to buy a Baxi may be because
they are not a market leader (possibly for reasons).


I've just checked and I've got a Baxi in my cupboard.

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I think
that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

I wouldn't even consider changing it at 10 years old

tim

On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I
think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity.

In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I
think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity.

Cleaning the "fluff" out of the combustion area is necessary once in a
while - if the boiler is not room sealed and there's a dog in the house.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 28/12/2017 13:53, charles wrote:
In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I
think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity.

Cleaning the "fluff" out of the combustion area is necessary once in a
while - if the boiler is not room sealed and there's a dog in the house.

I haven't seen a non-room sealed boiler for many, many years.

Apart from old cast iron floor standing ones.

On 28/12/2017 13:53, charles wrote:
In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I
think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity.

Cleaning the "fluff" out of the combustion area is necessary once in a
while - if the boiler is not room sealed and there's a dog in the house.


The word dog I assume in this case is not a term of endearment for the wife.

--


Adam

On 28/12/2017 13:53, charles wrote:
In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I
think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity.

Cleaning the "fluff" out of the combustion area is necessary once in a
while - if the boiler is not room sealed and there's a dog in the house.

My baxi bermuda back boiler used to have an amazing build up of burnt
fluff and other destritus even without a dog. It just seems to
accumulate.

"www.GymRatZ.co.uk" wrote in message
news
On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:

It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I
think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced)

Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity.

well all the guy did was test stuff.

but everyone (including the lawyer when you want to sell) calls it servicing

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop
working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that
doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler
longevity.

well all the guy did was test stuff.

but everyone (including the lawyer when you want to sell) calls it
servicing

I think of servicing as per a car. Where it needs routine work like oil
and filter changes. I'd not call replacing a broken alternator (or
whatever) a service. It's a repair.

Basically, a service is needed to keep something in peak condition. If all
it consists of is looking at things, it's an inspection. And with a
boiler, is unlikely to show things which may or may not break in the next
year, unless you're very lucky.

--
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 27/12/2017 14:37, David wrote:
From my very limited experience
boiler installers tend to specialise in one model because it is easiest to
just learn one system and carry one set of spares.

They don't generally carry spares, unless they are generic.
Installers like to push specific brands because they get rewards from
the manufacturers, just like IFAs used to 'recommend' the funds that
paid them the highest up-front and trail commissions.

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote:

Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12
years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble
over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer
said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps
it wouldn't last more than another couple of years.

The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured
that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing
something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he
works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a
very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the
preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty
seems good.

So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing
boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs
up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We
might not be in a good position financially at that time either.

What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler
over my older non condensing one?

Cheers,

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Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to
be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under
certain exemptions)."

So my arithmetic suggests that it is (possibly significantly) over 12
years old or is a condensing boiler.

Unless, of course, you had an exemption such as replacing an older boiler
where a condensing boiler wouldn't fit.

Do tell. :-)

Got me intrigued now.

Cheers


Dave R



--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to
be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under
certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbd...5&mid=0000 35

Its not a condenser...



--
Cheers,

John.

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"John Rumm" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to
be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under
certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbd...5&mid=0000 35

Its not a condenser...

that depends if it is a 28cdi RSF or a 28CDi Compact, RSF was only made upto
2002

-

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler
to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted
under certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp?
pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035

Its not a condenser...

Details last updated in 2002, first manufactured in 1997.

If the quote about 2005 is correct then I assume that this must have been
installed prior to 2005.

I suspect that WB would run down their supply if they knew they would be
illegal to install in 2005 or later, but who knows.

Of course, the boiler could have been a special installer offer in late
2004. :-)

Cheers


Dave R



--
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On 27/12/2017 18:03, David wrote:
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler
to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted
under certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp?
pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035

Its not a condenser...

Details last updated in 2002, first manufactured in 1997.

If the quote about 2005 is correct then I assume that this must have been
installed prior to 2005.

I suspect that WB would run down their supply if they knew they would be
illegal to install in 2005 or later, but who knows.

Of course, the boiler could have been a special installer offer in late
2004. :-)

You can still buy and install non condensers now. There is a "points
based" checklist you can use to assess if you can opt for a non
condensing boiler.


--
Cheers,

John.

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On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler
to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted
under certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp?
pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035

Its not a condenser...

I note that it's also a wall mounted unit. Presumably it's not using the
classic cast iron lump of a heat exchanger/burner assembly normally found
in the older floor standing models such as the Ideal Mexico Super CF.100
we've had running in our basement for about the last 35 years or so and
still going strong.

Before you posted that link, I was going to venture my opinion that it
might have another 25 years of useful life left. Now that I know that
it's lightweight enough to be wall mounted, I'm not so sure.

Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have
another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I
wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing
boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower
flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved
efficiency of a condensing boiler.

--
Johnny B Good

Johnny B Good wrote:

On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler
to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted
under certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp?
pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035

Its not a condenser...

I note that it's also a wall mounted unit. Presumably it's not using the
classic cast iron lump of a heat exchanger/burner assembly normally found
in the older floor standing models such as the Ideal Mexico Super CF.100
we've had running in our basement for about the last 35 years or so and
still going strong.

Before you posted that link, I was going to venture my opinion that it
might have another 25 years of useful life left. Now that I know that
it's lightweight enough to be wall mounted, I'm not so sure.

Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have
another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I
wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing
boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower
flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved
efficiency of a condensing boiler.

Fortunately, it is not actually illegal to use a boiler in
non-condensing (75deg return temp) mode if you need to, to actually heat
the house in cold weather.

--

Roger Hayter

On 28/12/2017 00:16, Johnny B Good wrote:

Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have
another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I
wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing
boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower
flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved
efficiency of a condensing boiler.

The rads thing is probably less worth worrying about than many expect.
They are normally sized so that they can keep the house warm even on the
coldest winter days, so for the vast bulk of the heating season they are
oversized anyway.


--
Cheers,

John.

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John Rumm brought next idea :
The rads thing is probably less worth worrying about than many expect. They
are normally sized so that they can keep the house warm even on the coldest
winter days, so for the vast bulk of the heating season they are oversized
anyway.

Our system was originally sized up for single glazing, draughty doors
and little or no insulation. With all of these losses fixed, it had far
too much heat input capacity. I was able to drastically downsize the
boiler's capacity - I suspect the same will apply to many older
systems.

On 28/12/2017 03:36, John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2017 00:16, Johnny B Good wrote:

Â* Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have
another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I
wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing
boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower
flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved
efficiency of a condensing boiler.

The rads thing is probably less worth worrying about than many expect.
They are normally sized so that they can keep the house warm even on the
coldest winter days, so for the vast bulk of the heating season they are
oversized anyway.


I've not picked up the context, but would comment that when I moved in
to this house about 4 years back it had non-finned mostly single panel
radiators throughout. And despite a near 60C temperature at the
radiators, the house would struggle to get above 16C in outside freezing
temperatures.


--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:

Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler
to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted
under certain exemptions)."

Here are the details for the 28Cdi:

http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp?
pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035

Its not a condenser...

I note that it's also a wall mounted unit. Presumably it's not using the
classic cast iron lump of a heat exchanger/burner assembly normally found
in the older floor standing models such as the Ideal Mexico Super CF.100
we've had running in our basement for about the last 35 years or so and
still going strong.

Before you posted that link, I was going to venture my opinion that it
might have another 25 years of useful life left. Now that I know that
it's lightweight enough to be wall mounted, I'm not so sure.

Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have
another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I
wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing
boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower
flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved
efficiency of a condensing boiler.

my boiler, which is wall hung, was installed (my me) in 1988. It needed a
new over-temperature sensor about 5 years ago, but just keeps going. It
doesn't have acat iron lump, but a stainless steel heat exchanger.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:


Chasing up on non-condensing.

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler

"In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to
be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under
certain exemptions)."

So my arithmetic suggests that it is (possibly significantly) over 12
years old or is a condensing boiler.

Unless, of course, you had an exemption such as replacing an older boiler
where a condensing boiler wouldn't fit.

Do tell. :-)

Got me intrigued now.


Well spotted. I had the boiler fitted in 2006...after it became illegal.
It replaced an old back boiler system which had to go because it and the
gas fire were taking up too much space in the lounge.

I researched combi boilers at the time and I was reading a lot of bad
things about condensing boilers and their longevity wrt corrosion. I
talked to my installer, who had been servicing our boilers for years and
he shared my concerns about condensing boilers. He said that if I wanted
a non condensing boiler fitted, he could source and fit it, no questions
asked. Hope that's satisfied your curiosity ;-)





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