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To replace older combi boiler?
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12
years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Keep your old boiler as long as you can. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html |
To replace older combi boiler?
In article ,
Paul Giverin wrote: So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. If you intend fitting the boiler yourself, then any savings in cost to buy it will be passed on. If you get a plumber to fit it, he is going to want his 'profit' one way or another. And if you supply the bits, he isn't as responsible if anything goes wrong. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at well below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in approx 4 years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage is higher than average. -- *A plateau is a high form of flattery* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
To replace older combi boiler?
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Cynical of me, but I think the incentives to buy a Baxi may be because they are not a market leader (possibly for reasons). We fitted a WB combi in 2005-2006 and last I heard it is still going strong with no problems. This was condensing IIRC, with the condensate pipe feeding into the back of the upstairs toilet. Similar age to yours as far as I can tell. Daughter fitted a Baxi a couple of years later because her local plumber supplied and serviced them and it crapped out big time and has since been replaced. Silly girl didn't have it serviced annually so didn't get a warranty claim. Having said that we didn't have the WB serviced annually and didn't need to claim on warranty. From my very limited experience boiler installers tend to specialise in one model because it is easiest to just learn one system and carry one set of spares. So the "preferred supplier" is often the one most convenient for the installer. Are you sure the 28 CDi is non-condensing? My GoogleFu isn't working particularly well but I thought that range had been condensing from at least the turn of the century. Anyway, I would expect the boiler to have a decent life left in it, but if it is really getting long in the tooth then a 12 year record of reasonable service with at least another 2 years life (14 years+) seems to me to be more of a recommendation than a 10 year warranty. On that basis of personal bias if I were going to replace the boiler (on the basis that if I ran it until it failed I might not then be able to afford to replace it) I would be tempted to replace like with like. Cheapest is not always best, neither is a bargain always one. BTDTBTS. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 |
To replace older combi boiler?
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." So my arithmetic suggests that it is (possibly significantly) over 12 years old or is a condensing boiler. Unless, of course, you had an exemption such as replacing an older boiler where a condensing boiler wouldn't fit. Do tell. :-) Got me intrigued now. Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:
Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbd...5&mid=0000 35 Its not a condenser... -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. Then again it might go for several more... not much point in replacing it unless you need to IMHO. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. There are always deals to be had of one kind or another. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Given the old one was one of the more efficient non condensers available, you could probably go from perhaps ~80% on the current one to ~90% on a new one. So not enough to be worthwhile unless you have huge gas bills. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:29, Ash Burton wrote:
Keep your old boiler as long as you can. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html That article is somewhat misleading. Its major gripe (freezing condensate drains stopping the boiler) is not a fault of the boiler at all, but entirely the fault of numpty installers, who can't be bothered to read the installation instructions. Some well known large installation and service firms seem very keen on installing boilers in unheated lofts and paying little attention to protecting the condensate drain from freezing. Secondly it falls into the normal trap of comparing old low tech cast iron lumps with a modern condensers, noting the modern boiler is less "reliable" and then assuming it must be because its a condenser. A much fairer comparison would be between two modern boilers of similar technology levels (i.e. electronic controls, pre-mix modulating burner, fanned flue, electronic ignition etc) - where you would see comparable reliability overall. (a 65% efficient cast iron lump is very reliable, since there is very little to go wrong. Feed it a new thermocouple every few years, brush the soot out of it, and a new gas valve now and then and it will run for decades... lobbing 35p of every quid you feed it trying to heat your garden) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler But planting the seeds of doubt...? -- F |
To replace older combi boiler?
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 15:21:26 UTC, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:29, Ash Burton wrote: Keep your old boiler as long as you can. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html That article is somewhat misleading. I'd say most of its points are wrong, but the conclusion is generally correct. Old boilers often go on for several decades, I wouldn't pay for a new one until needed. And it's not illegal to fit noncondensers, there are specified conditions in which you can, I don't remember them though. Its major gripe (freezing condensate drains stopping the boiler) is not a fault of the boiler at all, but entirely the fault of numpty installers, who can't be bothered to read the installation instructions. Some well known large installation and service firms seem very keen on installing boilers in unheated lofts and paying little attention to protecting the condensate drain from freezing. Secondly it falls into the normal trap of comparing old low tech cast iron lumps with a modern condensers, noting the modern boiler is less "reliable" and then assuming it must be because its a condenser. A much fairer comparison would be between two modern boilers of similar technology levels (i.e. electronic controls, pre-mix modulating burner, fanned flue, electronic ignition etc) - where you would see comparable reliability overall. (a 65% efficient cast iron lump is very reliable, since there is very little to go wrong. Feed it a new thermocouple every few years, brush the soot out of it, and a new gas valve now and then and it will run for decades... lobbing 35p of every quid you feed it trying to heat your garden) I always wondered how much one could improve iron lump efficiency by retrofitting a stirring fan. I don't plan to find out though. Wb & Vaillant are the 2 most reliable brands in an unreliable market. I wouldn't recommend touching any of the others. NT |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. Buy boiler at discount, and keep it until needed? |
To replace older combi boiler?
"John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote: Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbd...5&mid=0000 35 Its not a condenser... that depends if it is a 28cdi RSF or a 28CDi Compact, RSF was only made upto 2002 - |
To replace older combi boiler?
Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat
reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case? Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "John Rumm" wrote in message o.uk... On 27/12/2017 14:29, Ash Burton wrote: Keep your old boiler as long as you can. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/b...-of-money.html That article is somewhat misleading. Its major gripe (freezing condensate drains stopping the boiler) is not a fault of the boiler at all, but entirely the fault of numpty installers, who can't be bothered to read the installation instructions. Some well known large installation and service firms seem very keen on installing boilers in unheated lofts and paying little attention to protecting the condensate drain from freezing. Secondly it falls into the normal trap of comparing old low tech cast iron lumps with a modern condensers, noting the modern boiler is less "reliable" and then assuming it must be because its a condenser. A much fairer comparison would be between two modern boilers of similar technology levels (i.e. electronic controls, pre-mix modulating burner, fanned flue, electronic ignition etc) - where you would see comparable reliability overall. (a 65% efficient cast iron lump is very reliable, since there is very little to go wrong. Feed it a new thermocouple every few years, brush the soot out of it, and a new gas valve now and then and it will run for decades... lobbing 35p of every quid you feed it trying to heat your garden) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/17 14:35, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Paul Giverin wrote: So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. If you intend fitting the boiler yourself, then any savings in cost to buy it will be passed on. If you get a plumber to fit it, he is going to want his 'profit' one way or another. And if you supply the bits, he isn't as responsible if anything goes wrong. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at well below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in approx 4 years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage is higher than average. Are you on the Gas Safe Register? Or are you considered "competent" to fit a gas appliance? There still seems to be a good bit of confusion around for anyone considering a DIY gas installation. -- Jeff |
To replace older combi boiler?
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote: Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp? pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035 Its not a condenser... Details last updated in 2002, first manufactured in 1997. If the quote about 2005 is correct then I assume that this must have been installed prior to 2005. I suspect that WB would run down their supply if they knew they would be illegal to install in 2005 or later, but who knows. Of course, the boiler could have been a special installer offer in late 2004. :-) Cheers Dave R -- AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote:
Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." So my arithmetic suggests that it is (possibly significantly) over 12 years old or is a condensing boiler. Unless, of course, you had an exemption such as replacing an older boiler where a condensing boiler wouldn't fit. Do tell. :-) Got me intrigued now. Well spotted. I had the boiler fitted in 2006...after it became illegal. It replaced an old back boiler system which had to go because it and the gas fire were taking up too much space in the lounge. I researched combi boilers at the time and I was reading a lot of bad things about condensing boilers and their longevity wrt corrosion. I talked to my installer, who had been servicing our boilers for years and he shared my concerns about condensing boilers. He said that if I wanted a non condensing boiler fitted, he could source and fit it, no questions asked. Hope that's satisfied your curiosity ;-) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/17 14:37, David wrote:
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote: We fitted a WB combi in 2005-2006 and last I heard it is still going strong with no problems. This was condensing IIRC, with the condensate pipe feeding into the back of the upstairs toilet. Similar age to yours as far as I can tell. And stay away from Alphas... I've just put a WB 42 CDi in and I'm pretty pleased with it. It's not the most sophisticated (no pump speed control, no weather compensation unless you sell your soul to their internet all in one system). But it is competent, stable, very powerful (the 42kW is the hot water - I have used flow restrictor valves to the bath and given that half the theoretical winter output of DHW which still fills the bath in 15 mins or so). The idea is that when I have the shower room done, that can run and the bath can fill at the same time. I'm told by the plumbers that WB have good parts availability when it does break. My other option was a Viessmann - but they said there can be a lag on getting parts (like days to a week rather than mostly off the shelf like WB). However, the Viessmann boilers are better built (stainless heat exchanger) and weather comp is "add a sensor". Downsides apart from the alleged parts availability is the cost and the lack of a model than can match the 42CDi for DHW. I should add, in my case, this was a whole new system - so I could over spec the rads to run easily within the condensing range. Most of the year, I can run with 55/45C flow/return which is pretty cool. Right now I have it set to about 64/54C which gives a fast heat up on a cold day and still in condensing mode. |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 15:37, F wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote: The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler But planting the seeds of doubt...? Yes.... and it seems to have worked ;-) --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 16:50, GB wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote: I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. Buy boiler at discount, and keep it until needed? Its an option but if the current boiler manages another 5 years, I don't want the new one kicking around the shed for that time and if when I do need to fit it and there's a problem, Baxi might not play ball with the warranty. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Thanks to everyone who replied. On reflection, I think it is probably best to keep my old boiler going until it actually needs replacing. Cheers, Paul |
To replace older combi boiler?
"David" wrote in message ... On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 14:13:07 +0000, Paul Giverin wrote: Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Cynical of me, but I think the incentives to buy a Baxi may be because they are not a market leader (possibly for reasons). I've just checked and I've got a Baxi in my cupboard. It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced) I wouldn't even consider changing it at 10 years old tim |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 18:21, Paul Giverin wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote: Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Thanks to everyone who replied. On reflection, I think it is probably best to keep my old boiler going until it actually needs replacing. Cheers, Paul Sensible decision. |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 18:03, David wrote:
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote: Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp? pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035 Its not a condenser... Details last updated in 2002, first manufactured in 1997. If the quote about 2005 is correct then I assume that this must have been installed prior to 2005. I suspect that WB would run down their supply if they knew they would be illegal to install in 2005 or later, but who knows. Of course, the boiler could have been a special installer offer in late 2004. :-) You can still buy and install non condensers now. There is a "points based" checklist you can use to assess if you can opt for a non condensing boiler. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 17:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case? You could argue that some of the early condensers were just that - an additional heat exchanger glued onto the end of a conventional boiler. ISTR my former neighbours BIASI is built like that. (and to be fair to what was a cheap and nasty boiler, installed by a ****ed ****wit of an installer, its still going strong 10 years later) -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On Wednesday, 27 December 2017 17:06:15 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, I'd have thought by now there would be a thriving market in heat reclamation devices for non condensing boilers. Why is this not the case? Brian There are other ways too to capture wasted heat from old boilers. The problem is lack of approval, the boilers aren't approved to work with them. NT |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 18:21, Paul Giverin wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote: Our non condensing combi boiler (Worcester Bosch 28CDi) is about 12 years old. It gets serviced annually and hasn't given too much trouble over the years. On its last service a couple of months ago, the engineer said that although there were no problems, it was getting on and perhaps it wouldn't last more than another couple of years. The engineer wasn't pressurising us to buy a new boiler and I figured that we would wait until the boiler needed replacing before doing something about it but I was speaking to my son the other day and he works for Heatrae Sadia who are part of the Baxi group and he can get a very good discount on Baxi products. Coincidentally, Baxi was the preferred boiler of choice for my engineer and the 10 year warranty seems good. So now I am weighing up the pro's and con's of replacing my existing boiler before it actually needs it. If I wait until the old boiler packs up, my son might have moved jobs and the discount would be gone. We might not be in a good position financially at that time either. What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? Cheers, --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus Thanks to everyone who replied. On reflection, I think it is probably best to keep my old boiler going until it actually needs replacing. Very wise. What he might be alluding to is that spares are perhaps becoming difficult to obtain. My experience is that eBay is great for buying obsolete parts for old boilers! |
To replace older combi boiler?
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote: Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp? pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035 Its not a condenser... I note that it's also a wall mounted unit. Presumably it's not using the classic cast iron lump of a heat exchanger/burner assembly normally found in the older floor standing models such as the Ideal Mexico Super CF.100 we've had running in our basement for about the last 35 years or so and still going strong. Before you posted that link, I was going to venture my opinion that it might have another 25 years of useful life left. Now that I know that it's lightweight enough to be wall mounted, I'm not so sure. Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved efficiency of a condensing boiler. -- Johnny B Good |
To replace older combi boiler?
In article ,
Jeff Layman wrote: Depends on how much gas you use. I bought a Viessmann from Ebay at well below the local prices, and fitted it myself. Paid for itself in approx 4 years over the previous RS cast iron lump. But my gas usage is higher than average. Are you on the Gas Safe Register? Or are you considered "competent" to fit a gas appliance? There still seems to be a good bit of confusion around for anyone considering a DIY gas installation. I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only know such things by a bit of paper. -- *I don't work here. I'm a consultant Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
To replace older combi boiler?
Johnny B Good wrote:
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote: Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp? pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035 Its not a condenser... I note that it's also a wall mounted unit. Presumably it's not using the classic cast iron lump of a heat exchanger/burner assembly normally found in the older floor standing models such as the Ideal Mexico Super CF.100 we've had running in our basement for about the last 35 years or so and still going strong. Before you posted that link, I was going to venture my opinion that it might have another 25 years of useful life left. Now that I know that it's lightweight enough to be wall mounted, I'm not so sure. Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved efficiency of a condensing boiler. Fortunately, it is not actually illegal to use a boiler in non-condensing (75deg return temp) mode if you need to, to actually heat the house in cold weather. -- Roger Hayter |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 28/12/2017 00:16, Johnny B Good wrote:
Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved efficiency of a condensing boiler. The rads thing is probably less worth worrying about than many expect. They are normally sized so that they can keep the house warm even on the coldest winter days, so for the vast bulk of the heating season they are oversized anyway. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote: On Wed, 27 Dec 2017 15:03:52 +0000, John Rumm wrote: On 27/12/2017 14:49, David wrote: Chasing up on non-condensing. https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/need-condensing-boiler "In 2005 it became illegal for anything other than a condensing boiler to be installed in the UK (unless special permission has been granted under certain exemptions)." Here are the details for the 28Cdi: http://www.ncm-pcdb.org.uk/sap/pcdbdetails.jsp? pid=26&id=001758&type=105&mid=000035 Its not a condenser... I note that it's also a wall mounted unit. Presumably it's not using the classic cast iron lump of a heat exchanger/burner assembly normally found in the older floor standing models such as the Ideal Mexico Super CF.100 we've had running in our basement for about the last 35 years or so and still going strong. Before you posted that link, I was going to venture my opinion that it might have another 25 years of useful life left. Now that I know that it's lightweight enough to be wall mounted, I'm not so sure. Unless someone else has good reason to say otherwise, it may yet have another 10 years or more of useful life left in it in which case, I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to replace it with a modern condensing boiler which may require the rads to be upgraded to cope with the lower flow and return temperatures required to make the most of the improved efficiency of a condensing boiler. my boiler, which is wall hung, was installed (my me) in 1988. It needed a new over-temperature sensor about 5 years ago, but just keeps going. It doesn't have acat iron lump, but a stainless steel heat exchanger. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
To replace older combi boiler?
John Rumm brought next idea :
The rads thing is probably less worth worrying about than many expect. They are normally sized so that they can keep the house warm even on the coldest winter days, so for the vast bulk of the heating season they are oversized anyway. Our system was originally sized up for single glazing, draughty doors and little or no insulation. With all of these losses fixed, it had far too much heat input capacity. I was able to drastically downsize the boiler's capacity - I suspect the same will apply to many older systems. |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 28/12/2017 10:21, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
John Rumm brought next idea : The rads thing is probably less worth worrying about than many expect. They are normally sized so that they can keep the house warm even on the coldest winter days, so for the vast bulk of the heating season they are oversized anyway. Our system was originally sized up for single glazing, draughty doors and little or no insulation. With all of these losses fixed, it had far too much heat input capacity. I was able to drastically downsize the boiler's capacity - I suspect the same will apply to many older systems. Yup, its one of those ironic things that a modern that can modulate its output right down to match the reduced load would work fine, but an old fixed output one will end up cycling like mad trying to match the new lower load. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote:
What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? When I checked my non-condensing one it was only 10% less efficient than the Carlos Fandango premium condensing boiler by the same manufacturer. |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 28/12/2017 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only know such things by a bit of paper. This statement gets my vote. :) |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote:
It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced) Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity. |
To replace older combi boiler?
In article ,
www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote: On 27/12/2017 18:22, tim... wrote: It's just coming up to 9 years old, never given me a problem (and I think that girly who owned it before me never once had it serviced) Boilers don't need "servicing" they only need attention when they stop working. Not having some half-wit poking and twiddling stuff that doesn't need either action is the the best way to ensure boiler longevity. Cleaning the "fluff" out of the combustion area is necessary once in a while - if the boiler is not room sealed and there's a dog in the house. -- from KT24 in Surrey, England |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 28/12/2017 13:15, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 28/12/2017 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote: I don't give a stuff about 'Gas Safe' in my own house. And I defy any inspector etc to tell it wasn't installed by a pro. Except those who only know such things by a bit of paper. This statement gets my vote. :) I suppose I do give a stuff, but only because in theory if I install a boiler I now ought to go to building control. Other than that most fatalities have been caused by Gas Safe installers. I also live in my own home, so want anything installed to be safe and work properly. I am certainly ****ed off with the nanny state through interest groups like NIC and Gas Safe, such anyone doing their own work gets my vote too. |
To replace older combi boiler?
On 28/12/2017 13:12, www.GymRatZ.co.uk wrote:
On 27/12/2017 14:13, Paul Giverin wrote: What sort of savings would I make with a new efficient condensing boiler over my older non condensing one? When I checked my non-condensing one it was only 10% less efficient than the Carlos Fandango premium condensing boiler by the same manufacturer. Which when run in non-condensing mode won't be 10% more efficient. |
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