Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high), then
how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just running a
fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation front)
but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters which
seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty, but
I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much would be
practical.

Cheers



Dave R


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On 29/10/2017 13:58, jim wrote:


£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of
wood...
)


You can get a reversible 5kw heat pump for less than that.

So about 20p an hour to run and no mess.

David Wrote in message:
Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high), then
how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just running a
fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation front)
but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters which
seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty, but
I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much would be
practical.

Cheers



Dave R



£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of
wood...
)
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On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:10:02 +0000, "dennis@home"
wrote:

On 29/10/2017 13:58, jim wrote:


£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of
wood...
)


You can get a reversible 5kw heat pump for less than that.

So about 20p an hour to run and no mess.

And depending on where the electricity comes from, less pollution at
the point of use.

https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/...nts/ard-36.pdf

We live in a smokeless zone and depending on the wind direction, I can
generally smell when someone is lighting up / running their woodburner
(often for no (practical) reason as they would have central heating
and have to additionally buy the logs).

Cheers, T i m

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 13:58:31 +0000, jim wrote:

David Wrote in message:
Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the
numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high),
then how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just
running a fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation
front) but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters
which seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty,
but I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much
would be practical.

Cheers



Dave R



£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of wood...)

Stovax instructions say a minimum of 4 meters vertical height for the flue.

So about 1.5 metres to the ceiling coupling and then about 2.5 metres of
twin wall above the tin roof.

I want to get the smoke (such as it is) up above the neighbours' gardens
as the shed is along the boundary fence at the bottom.

I was being generous with the estimate, because despite DIY I am
considering getting someone in to fit it. Wimpish, I know, some days I'm
all DIYed out.

Cheers


Dave R



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On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:10:02 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 29/10/2017 13:58, jim wrote:


£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of wood...
)


You can get a reversible 5kw heat pump for less than that.

So about 20p an hour to run and no mess.

Got a link with prices, please?

I had a quick look but didn't find any obvious price lists.

At that price I might consider one for the house.


Cheers


Dave R


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On 29 Oct 2017 12:56:19 GMT, David wrote:

snip

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty, but
I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much would be
practical.

I think it all depends on what you want, have and are willing to put
up with for the whole process.

Having any solid fuel heater is like have a young child in that it
must be fed and cleaned regularly. ;-)

And on the food ... even if you grow your own, you have to plan the
food months / years in advance.

So, I have an IR heater on a stand that is above anything flammable on
the floor and given my workshop isn't very well insulated, it gives
instant heat to me, as and when I want / need it (with no moving parts
etc).

Now if your workshop is off grid, you spend a lot of time in there and
you have loads of trees you have / can fell, chog, split and store,
then it could pay back at some time.

You still have the issue with potential 'point of use' pollution etc.

Cheers, T i m

On Sunday, 29 October 2017 12:56:23 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:
Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the numbers..

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high), then
how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just running a
fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation front)
but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters which
seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty, but
I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much would be
practical.

Cheers



Dave R

Give us the numbers.
What temp will you heat to?
What's the average heat loss?
How long will you be in there?
What will that cost for gas & for the stove?
Will you pay for wood? If so, why?


NT

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 15:02:34 +0000, T i m wrote:

On 29 Oct 2017 12:56:19 GMT, David wrote:

snip

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty,
but I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much
would be practical.

I think it all depends on what you want, have and are willing to put up
with for the whole process.

Having any solid fuel heater is like have a young child in that it must
be fed and cleaned regularly. ;-)

And on the food ... even if you grow your own, you have to plan the food
months / years in advance.

So, I have an IR heater on a stand that is above anything flammable on
the floor and given my workshop isn't very well insulated, it gives
instant heat to me, as and when I want / need it (with no moving parts
etc).

Now if your workshop is off grid, you spend a lot of time in there and
you have loads of trees you have / can fell, chog, split and store,
then it could pay back at some time.

You still have the issue with potential 'point of use' pollution etc.

Cheers, T i m

One thing encouraging me to do this is that I already have the stove.
Took it out of our previous house then fitted a larger one here so always
destined to be used in the shed because .... fire .....

So I want to do it; just speculating on how financially foolish it is (not
that it is likely to stop me).

As we have another wood burner there will always be a supply of fuel.

This is also a multi-fuel stove (newer one is a log burner) so there is
scope for some smokeless fuel as well. Should really just have gone for a
wood burner the first time but you live and learn. I could take the grate
out and just have a tray in the bottom, I suppose.

Cheers


Dave R





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On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 12:56:19 +0000, David wrote:

Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the
numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high),
then how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just
running a fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation
front) but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters
which seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty,
but I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much
would be practical.

Just to note that I have run a quick calculation using the Dimplex site
https://www.dimplex.co.uk/room-heating-calculator
with the figures as near as I can get to the questions asked.

It didn't have options for 4 external walls and 2 * double doors.

Single Storey Recommendation

Room Information

Length 7.5 m

Breadth 3.3 m

Height 2.3 m

Window Area 5.2 m2

Outside Walls 3

Room Level Single Storey

Outside wall 'U' value 2

Roof 'U' value 0.32

Window 'U' value 3.2

Floor 'U' value 0.6

Approx. External Temperature -3

Approx. Room Temperature 21

Product Type Q-Rad Electric Radiator

Based upon the above information we recommend the following. Please bear
in mind these calculations are a guide to the kiloWatt loading required
for the product(s) you have selected. You will need to select a heater
which has a loading the same as or greater than the figure shown.

No.Room..........Recommendation
1..Living Room...5.7 kW Q-Rad Electric Radiator

So it looks as though the wood burner is rated about right for the middle
of winter.

Cheers



Dave R


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On 29 Oct 2017 15:34:43 GMT, David wrote:

snip

One thing encouraging me to do this is that I already have the stove.

Ah, yes, that could be a big motivator but still not sure it would for
me ... and I also have a reasonable supply of wood. You could always
sell it (while you can)?

Took it out of our previous house then fitted a larger one here so always
destined to be used in the shed because .... fire .....

;-)

So I want to do it; just speculating on how financially foolish it is (not
that it is likely to stop me).

Then it's not that foolish ... just like buying a motor cruiser
wouldn't be, even if you only used it once a year, if you weren't
having to look after your cash. ;-)

As we have another wood burner there will always be a supply of fuel.

But less with two stoves presumably?

This is also a multi-fuel stove (newer one is a log burner) so there is
scope for some smokeless fuel as well.

Again, given you said the walls weren't very well insulated and a
solid fuel stove has to be either 'kept in' to be any use when you
first go in there, if you aren't in there a lot it could a fairly big
money drain (unless you have your own coal mine, or have money to burn
etc). If you only go in there intermittently and have to get the stove
on ... ? Nothing stopping you also having a IR / Fan heater till the
solid fuel stove get's going? [1]

Should really just have gone for a
wood burner the first time but you live and learn.

Again, if you (or someone) are going to be in there a lot ... and
don't mind tending the stove (it sounds like you are used to doing so)
rather than getting on with whatever you are in there for ... then it
could be fine.

I could take the grate
out and just have a tray in the bottom, I suppose.

Pass, I stopped having to wet-nurse Mums coal fire when she got
central heating and the novelty had worn off a long time before that.
;-)

Personally, because I only use my workshop very intermittently and
certainly am not living in there, having a heater I can turn on *and*
off (and have it respond instantly) is very handy (and cost
efficient). ;-)


Cheers, T i m

[1] Years ago we only had gas wall heaters at home (and the Parkray
that was only used whilst the novelty lasted etc) or fan heaters. So,
if when we came in from say the snow we could get a gas fire or fan
heater on and get relief pretty quickly. I can remember being round a
mates who only had central heating and standing next to the gas hob to
try to thaw ourselves out till some head got into the CH. ;-(

In article ,
David writes:
One thing encouraging me to do this is that I already have the stove.
Took it out of our previous house then fitted a larger one here so always
destined to be used in the shed because .... fire .....

So I want to do it; just speculating on how financially foolish it is (not
that it is likely to stop me).

As we have another wood burner there will always be a supply of fuel.

This is also a multi-fuel stove (newer one is a log burner) so there is
scope for some smokeless fuel as well. Should really just have gone for a
wood burner the first time but you live and learn. I could take the grate
out and just have a tray in the bottom, I suppose.

I suspect that burning wood is likely to be banned in smokeless
zones in the near future because of the particulate polution,
so if you are going to any effort, make sure your stove can also
burn smokeless fuel.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 29/10/2017 12:56, David wrote:

Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high), then
how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just running a
fan heater or two?.

Without knowing what the heat loss rate is, its hard to say. But for a
straight electric heater the numbers are going to fairly simple -
whatever you pay for 1kWh multiplied by the power of the heater, and the
number of hours it runs. So for example if its a 3kW heater, and needs
to run 30 mins per hour for 5 hours, and you pay 15p/kWh then that would
be 3 x 0.5 x 5 x 0.15 = ~£1.13 / day

If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a third to a
quarter of the price for normal resistive heating.

An advantage of electric is that you can set it for frost / dew
protection when the shed is not occupied. (although there is no reason
you could not have that in addition to fire!)

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation front)
but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters which
seems quite effective.

I lined my workshop with 2" of pir foam all over, and then ply clad it.
Makes it very much easier to heat, and it feels much nicer to be in there.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty, but
I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much would be
practical.

What do you do in the shed? Does it create lots of waste wood for example?





--
Cheers,

John.

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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 17:46:28 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

On 29/10/2017 12:56, David wrote:

Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the
numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high),
then how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just
running a fan heater or two?.

Without knowing what the heat loss rate is, its hard to say. But for a
straight electric heater the numbers are going to fairly simple -
whatever you pay for 1kWh multiplied by the power of the heater, and the
number of hours it runs. So for example if its a 3kW heater, and needs
to run 30 mins per hour for 5 hours, and you pay 15p/kWh then that would
be 3 x 0.5 x 5 x 0.15 = ~£1.13 / day

If you fitted heatpump aircon instead, then it would be a third to a
quarter of the price for normal resistive heating.

An advantage of electric is that you can set it for frost / dew
protection when the shed is not occupied. (although there is no reason
you could not have that in addition to fire!)

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation
front) but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters
which seems quite effective.

I lined my workshop with 2" of pir foam all over, and then ply clad it.
Makes it very much easier to heat, and it feels much nicer to be in
there.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty,
but I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much
would be practical.

What do you do in the shed? Does it create lots of waste wood for
example?

Sadly I don't do anything in there at the moment but look at all the stuff
I need to shift and/or get rid of.

In the future I aim to have a work bench and perhaps even try a bit of
wood turning but I suspect that if I get it sorted as planned the main use
will be as a garden room. So the stove would be part of the "lifestyle"
thing.

The plan is to rationalise the 8 * 4 wooden shed so the garden tools and
the mower can go into the newer big shed, clear out the garage (again
putting stuff in the newer shed) and then knock down the garage to make
space to reshape the garden.

At that point we may go for hard landscaping and do away with both lawn
and lawn mower.

Lots and lots of stuff to get rid of :-(

Cheers


Dave R



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jim wrote:
David Wrote in message:
Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high), then
how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just running a
fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation front)
but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the rafters which
seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty, but
I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much would be
practical.

Cheers



Dave R



£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of
wood...
)


In workshops you normally only use tinwall chimneys where they exit the
roof. The internal steel chimney is an effective radiator.

On 29/10/2017 14:55, David wrote:
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 14:10:02 +0000, dennis@home wrote:

On 29/10/2017 13:58, jim wrote:


£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of wood...
)


You can get a reversible 5kw heat pump for less than that.

So about 20p an hour to run and no mess.

Got a link with prices, please?

I had a quick look but didn't find any obvious price lists.

At that price I might consider one for the house.


https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p...UaApfWEALw_wcB

https://www.appliancesdirect.co.uk/p...caAll5EALw_wcB


https://www.debenhamsplus.com/p/8653...AaAj7pEALw_wcB



https://www.aircondirect.co.uk/p/865...8aAmNeEALw_wcB

On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 21:50:04 +0000, Capitol wrote:

jim wrote:
David Wrote in message:
Just capturing the thought for the moment so I remember to do the
numbers.

If it costs, say, £750 to fit a flue for the 4.7 kw stove to my rather
large shed (7.5 meters * 3.3 meters * (average) about 2 meters high),
then how long will it take to get back the outlay compared to just
running a fan heater or two?.

Shed is single block wall (so not currently good on the insulation
front) but the ceiling is insulated with fibreglass between the
rafters which seems quite effective.

There are all sorts of reasons to fit the stove, because fire+toasty,
but I was just wondering how much would be sheer vanity and how much
would be practical.

Cheers



Dave R



£750¿
Is that a quote? For ~2m of flue?....

Remember to derate your 4.7kw MAX stove as you won't be running it
flat out unless you have lots of air leaks ( & lots of wood...
)


In workshops you normally only use tinwall chimneys where they
exit the
roof. The internal steel chimney is an effective radiator.

Yes.

Although even then the stove manufacturers recommend twin wall all the way
to stop the flue gasses cooling down and condensation forming.

Cheers


Dave R




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