"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:58:38 +0100, Rob Morley
wrote:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 15:44:48 +0100
"Brian Gaff" wrote:

What is Open banking?

I don't like using cash machines even though we now have talking ones
with headsets. When you cannot see you cannot know if anyone is
hovering waiting to pounce. I want a person involved, and I certainly
don't like any idea where security can be compromised.
So as I say, what is Open banking?

It's supposed to provide better access to "financial products" from a
broad range of suppliers rather than just your own bank, by letting
banks and finance companies share customer information. It's a bit
like the online insurance and energy supplier comparison sites, for
banks.

FSVO "supposed".

I don't consider it to be comparible with comparison sites.
It's more about banks trying to advertise and attempt to sell you more
stuff you don't need.

That's bull****. Plenty do shop around for the best value credit
cards and for the accounts paying the best interest rates and
those that do stuff like ApplePay and AndroidPay etc.

I've just reorganised mine so that I buy everything on a fee
free credit card which pays off the balance in full every month
from any account I like with any financial institution where I
currently have my substantial cash where it pays the highest
interest, and which does ApplePay and AndroidPay etc. And
have some other accounts with other banks which do other
stuff like not charge any fee on foreign currency transactions,
and which I can use if the main credit card isnt usable because
that bank is flat on its face for a few hours or so or the card
is temporarily suspended because of suspicious activity like
potential fraudulent activity etc.

I don't bother with rewards cards myself, but some do and its
handy to use a credit card that has the highest rewards and
charges no fee at all in the first year or two to suck you in etc.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 13/10/17 16:46, Bill Wright wrote:
On 13/10/2017 13:45, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:38:54 +0100, "New OAP ..."
wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
news Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?


always pay cash at a Paki run petrol station........

Racist.


If he's speaking from prejudice he's a racist. If he's speaking from
personal experience he's a realist. You didn't know which category he was
in so you had no right to call him an offensive name.

Far too many cousins back in the subcontent who can skim details
especially if he also glances at the 3 digit security code on the back.

I mistrust ANYONE who takes my card and processes it other one in my
sight.

On sorry sir that card reader is playing up, try this one'

Not even possible anymore with applepay.

Same with online transactions too.

Sometime even you dinosaurs will notice.

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Bob Minchin
wrote:

tim... wrote:

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news Michael Chare wrote:
Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?

Well I can't quite see how it would be of significant benefit to me
and any increase in flow/spread of personal info has got to increase
the possibility of a leak and hence fraud.
It could possibly open the door to unsolicited offers to move bank
accounts and other financial products but we have a large recycling
bin!

I would hope that open banking will have an opt out for customers but
not confident of this.

it is supposed to have

Yes I have now found this site
http://uk.creditcards.com/credit-car...-explained.php

Thanks for that. I checked out the supposed benefits and there is
nothing there for me.

The worrying thing, gleaned from a couple of things I read seems that
customers have to authorise/deny organisation from obtaining their banking
information rather than it being controlled at source by their bank.

Why is that a worrying thing ? You have to do that now
when applying for a mortgage or a credit card etc.

On 14/10/17 02:50, Hankat wrote:

I mistrust ANYONE who takes my card and processes it other one in my
sight.

On sorry sir that card reader is playing up, try this one'

Not even possible anymore with applepay.

HAHAHAHAJ!

Same with online transactions too.


It's even worse.
You give full card details AND your security code.

I went into my computer man to but an SSD and said 'bugger, I wanted to
pay with this new account but I've forgotten the pin number'

'No problem, if I pretend you ordered it online, all I need is the
security code'



Sometime even you dinosaurs will notice.

Poor little Hankat, really drunk the 'new shiny thing make it all
better' koolaid.




--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 14/10/17 02:50, Hankat wrote:

I mistrust ANYONE who takes my card and processes it other one in my
sight.

On sorry sir that card reader is playing up, try this one'

Not even possible anymore with applepay.

HAHAHAHAJ!

What a stunning line in rational argument you have there.

Same with online transactions too.

It's even worse.
You give full card details

No.

AND your security code.

No. The only thing the me chant gets is the one time token
that is completely useless for any further transactions.

I went into my computer man to but an SSD

Clearly completely blotto, as always.

and said 'bugger, I wanted to pay with this new account but I've forgotten
the pin number'

There is no pin number with ApplePay.

'No problem, if I pretend you ordered it online, all I need is the
security code'

No such animal with ApplePay.

Sometime even you dinosaurs will notice.

reams of your pig ignorant **** flushed where it belongs

On 14/10/17 09:34, Hankat wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 14/10/17 02:50, Hankat wrote:

I mistrust ANYONE who takes my card and processes it other one in my
sight.

On sorry sir that card reader is playing up, try this one'

Not even possible anymore with applepay.

HAHAHAHAJ!

What a stunning line in rational argument you have there.

Same with online transactions too.

It's even worse.
You give full card details

No.

AND your security code.

No. The only thing the me chant gets is the one time token
that is completely useless for any further transactions.

I went into my computer man to but an SSD

Clearly completely blotto, as always.

and said 'bugger, I wanted to pay with this new account but I've
forgotten the pin number'

There is no pin number with ApplePay.
We wer not talinmjkg about apple pay. We were talking about online
transactins.


'No problem, if I pretend you ordered it online, all I need is the
security code'

No such animal with ApplePay.

So how much to tyou have to pay Apple to be able to have a device that
can run apple pay?


Sometime even you dinosaurs will notice.

reams of your pig ignorant **** flushed where it belongs

You are Denis and I claim my 5 euro

--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

Rod Speed wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote
Michael Chare wrote

Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?

Well I can't quite see how it would be of significant benefit to me

It allows you to do banking transactions more conveniently.

and any increase in flow/spread of personal info

There is no increase in the flow/spread of personal info.

has got to increase the possibility of a leak and hence fraud.

Nope, trivial to secure.

It could possibly open the door to unsolicited offers to move bank
accounts and other financial products

Nope.

but we have a large recycling bin!

I would hope that open banking will have an opt out for customers

You dont appear to understand what open banking involves.
https://openbankproject.com/

but not confident of this.

Contactless payment cards

Have nothing to do with open banking.

didn't have an opt out unless you decline the cards or perform surgery
with a craft knife.

But you are free to put your card on ApplePay
and completely secure your physical card and
have a completely secure way to pay for stuff
that no thief can ever rape.



I'm afraid that nothing I see on the website above excites me only a
sense of not wanting to use it.
I have numerous bank accounts set up for different purposes and have no
desire that they could be connected/viewed all in one place.
When I apply for a new card, I choose which of my banks i give details
of. If the card provider looks via a credit reference agency they will
see the existence of my other accounts but no transaction details. This
look like it will probably change under open banking.

Rod Speed wrote:

ApplePay already means that you no longer need to
give a damn about what some dodgy merchant has
done with their transaction terminal, the merchant
terminal never gets anything that can be used for other
than the transaction you personally authorise after you
have left the store or done the online transaction.

It isn't only a 'dodgy merchant' who can defraud you.

--
Chris Green
·

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 14/10/17 09:34, Hankat wrote:


"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 14/10/17 02:50, Hankat wrote:

I mistrust ANYONE who takes my card and processes it other one in my
sight.

On sorry sir that card reader is playing up, try this one'

Not even possible anymore with applepay.

HAHAHAHAJ!

What a stunning line in rational argument you have there.

Same with online transactions too.

It's even worse.
You give full card details

No.

AND your security code.

No. The only thing the me chant gets is the one time token
that is completely useless for any further transactions.

I went into my computer man to but an SSD

Clearly completely blotto, as always.

and said 'bugger, I wanted to pay with this new account but I've
forgotten the pin number'

There is no pin number with ApplePay.

We wer not talinmjkg about apple pay.

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security that provides and so
you dont have to even consider how dodgy the merchant may
be or whether they might have modified their card machine to
grab your card details when you use your card in their place.

We were talking about online
transactins.

Just as true with ApplePay used for online transactions, no online
merchant ever gets any of your personal information that can be
used to do other fraudulent transactions after the one you chose
to do using ApplePay for the vastly better security of your data.

'No problem, if I pretend you ordered it online, all I need is the
security code'

No such animal with ApplePay.

So how much to tyou have to pay Apple to be able to have a device that can
run apple pay?

Irrelevant when you have one of those already.

And AndroidPay is almost as secure, particularly
if you choose a handset that will not do AndroidPay
transactions unless it has been unlocked.

Sometime even you dinosaurs will notice.

"Bob Minchin" wrote in message
news
Rod Speed wrote:
Bob Minchin wrote
Michael Chare wrote

Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?

Well I can't quite see how it would be of significant benefit to me

It allows you to do banking transactions more conveniently.

and any increase in flow/spread of personal info

There is no increase in the flow/spread of personal info.

has got to increase the possibility of a leak and hence fraud.

Nope, trivial to secure.

It could possibly open the door to unsolicited offers to move bank
accounts and other financial products

Nope.

but we have a large recycling bin!

I would hope that open banking will have an opt out for customers

You dont appear to understand what open banking involves.
https://openbankproject.com/

but not confident of this.

Contactless payment cards

Have nothing to do with open banking.

didn't have an opt out unless you decline the cards or perform surgery
with a craft knife.

But you are free to put your card on ApplePay
and completely secure your physical card and
have a completely secure way to pay for stuff
that no thief can ever rape.



I'm afraid that nothing I see on the website above excites me only a sense
of not wanting to use it.

Sure, there will always be plenty who have
no interest in different ways of doing things.

I know some who refuse to have anything at all to do
with mobile phones or contactless cards, even tho they
would allow them to do things more conveniently.

I have numerous bank accounts set up for different purposes and have no
desire that they could be connected/viewed all in one place.

Open banking is about a hell of a lot more than just that.

When I apply for a new card, I choose which of my banks i give details of.

You can still do that with open banking.

If the card provider looks via a credit reference agency they will see the
existence of my other accounts but no transaction details. This look like
it will probably change under open banking.

Nope, you are free to decide who gets to see the transaction details.

Chris Green wrote
Rod Speed wrote

ApplePay already means that you no longer need to
give a damn about what some dodgy merchant has
done with their transaction terminal, the merchant
terminal never gets anything that can be used for other
than the transaction you personally authorise after you
have left the store or done the online transaction.

It isn't only a 'dodgy merchant' who can defraud you.

Sure, but that is what was being discussed in the stuff you snipped.

And the transaction processor in a foreign country can't defraud you
either, they get nothing that can be used for extra transactions.

And stealing your phone doesnt allow the thief to loot your
card(s) until the theft has been reported either and you dont
even have to get fraudulent transactions reversed in that
situation because the thief cant do any of those.

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2017-10-14, Chris Green wrote:
Rod Speed wrote:

ApplePay already means that you no longer need to
give a damn about what some dodgy merchant has
done with their transaction terminal, the merchant
terminal never gets anything that can be used for other
than the transaction you personally authorise after you
have left the store or done the online transaction.

It isn't only a 'dodgy merchant' who can defraud you.


https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ystem-scammers

That’s not defrauding the individual who has enough
sense to use ApplePay, that’s defrauding those who
are too stupid to have their cards on ApplePay.

And doesn’t happen anymore anyway. That was due to
a few US banks being very slack about checking that it was
the card holder onboarding a particular card to ApplePay.

On 13/10/2017 16:58, Mark Allread wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:46:15 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 13/10/2017 13:45, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:38:54 +0100, "New OAP ..."
wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
news Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?


always pay cash at a Paki run petrol station........

Racist.


If he's speaking from prejudice he's a racist. If he's speaking from
personal experience he's a realist. You didn't know which category he
was in so you had no right to call him an offensive name.

But if its his personal experience of just one Pakistani should he then
cast all the same?

No that wouldn't be sensible. But if he'd had problems with a
significantly higher proportion of Pakistanis than, say, Poles, he'd be
within his moral rights to discriminate. You could call this racism, but
actually it's race-based generalisation. Generalising helps us survive
as a species. If your personal experience of Yorkshire Terriers has been
that they bite you are sensible to avoid them.
When I was working an an aerial installer I would sometimes pull up
outside a house, look the place up and down, and drive off. It was
because I'd learnt that the people in houses with a certain exterior
appearance were less likely that normal to be good customers. That was
unfair on the ones in such houses who were perfectly OK but my first
priority was to maximise profit.
My friend has just been turned down for a mortgage because the house has
a flat roof. We've been up on the roof. It's new, and perfect, and it
has a 25 year guarantee. But the building society don't lend on flat
roofed properties because they've been stung before.

Bill

On 13/10/2017 17:22, Mark wrote:

If he's speaking from
personal experience he's a realist.

No. You can't generalise like this.

We all have every right to generalise. It helps survival and profits.

Pubs turn away bikers.

Bill

"Bill Wright" wrote in message
news
On 13/10/2017 16:58, Mark Allread wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:46:15 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 13/10/2017 13:45, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:38:54 +0100, "New OAP ..."
wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
news Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?


always pay cash at a Paki run petrol station........

Racist.


If he's speaking from prejudice he's a racist. If he's speaking from
personal experience he's a realist. You didn't know which category he
was in so you had no right to call him an offensive name.

But if its his personal experience of just one Pakistani should he then
cast all the same?

No that wouldn't be sensible. But if he'd had problems with a
significantly higher proportion of Pakistanis than, say, Poles, he'd be
within his moral rights to discriminate. You could call this racism, but
actually it's race-based generalisation. Generalising helps us survive as
a species. If your personal experience of Yorkshire Terriers has been that
they bite you are sensible to avoid them.

When I was working an an aerial installer I would sometimes pull up
outside a house, look the place up and down, and drive off. It was because
I'd learnt that the people in houses with a certain exterior appearance
were less likely that normal to be good customers. That was unfair on the
ones in such houses who were perfectly OK

And now your potential customers are free to spell out that that is
how you operate, dont even bother to tell them when you dont
plan to do the work that you have said you would do without even
telling them so they can get someone else to do the work instead.

but my first priority was to maximise profit.

And they are free to say that about you too.

My friend has just been turned down for a mortgage because the house has a
flat roof. We've been up on the roof. It's new, and perfect, and it has a
25 year guarantee. But the building society don't lend on flat roofed
properties because they've been stung before.

On 14/10/2017 18:03, Hankat wrote:

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security that provides and so
you dont have to even consider how dodgy the merchant may
be or whether they might have modified their card machine to
grab your card details whenÂ* you use your card in their place.

As a matter of interest are you still covered for transactions above
£100? When making a purchase by CC of above £100 the CC company is also
liable in law for refunds etc. if the original retailer goes bankrupt etc.

By using a third party in the transaction do you lose this legal right?
You have a transaction (contract) with the retailer and the Applepay and
then Applepay has a different transaction with the card company. You
haven't actually used your card for the initial transaction.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"alan_m" wrote in message
...
On 14/10/2017 18:03, Hankat wrote:

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security that provides and so
you dont have to even consider how dodgy the merchant may
be or whether they might have modified their card machine to
grab your card details when you use your card in their place.

As a matter of interest are you still covered for transactions above £100?

Yes, and those can't be fraudulent transactions anyway.

When making a purchase by CC of above £100 the CC company is also liable
in law for refunds etc. if the original retailer goes bankrupt etc.

By using a third party in the transaction do you lose this legal right?

No. And there is no third party anyway.

You have a transaction (contract) with the retailer

Yes.

and the Applepay

No.

and then Applepay has a different transaction with the card company.

No.

Just like who the merchant uses for their transaction
processing terminal isnt relevant with physical cards.

You haven't actually used your card for the initial transaction.

Yes you have, just like you have regardless of who the
merchant chooses to provide their transaction terminal.

True in spades with online transactions and who
the merchant uses to handle the transaction.

On 15/10/2017 10:17, Huge wrote:
On 14/10/2017 18:03, Hankat wrote:

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security

"vastly better" is an odd way to spell "inferior".



And "Hankat" is an odd way to spell "Rod Speed"

On 15/10/17 02:17, Bill Wright wrote:
On 13/10/2017 17:22, Mark wrote:

If he's speaking from
personal experience he's a realist.

No.Â* You can't generalise like this.

We all have every right to generalise. It helps survival and profits.

Pubs turn away bikers.

Bill

Without generalisation we would not survive.

Only a bigot wouldn't stroke a tiger and say 'nice pussy'



--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 15/10/17 10:17, Huge wrote:
On 14/10/2017 18:03, Hankat wrote:

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security

"vastly better" is an odd way to spell "inferior".


LOL.

Hankat think new shiny thing make all better!

I was staying with a friend, who died a few months ago, and he was on to
me about 'you should buy warburtons, they are better' and 'you should by
taylors coffeee not waitrose own blend' I had never heard of these
brands. I bought them, and they were no better. Nor cheaper

Then I realised they were *advertised on TV*.

He was a staunch lefty**** all his life, a labour councillor,
whistleblower, senior member of the CND.

I was with his business partner and his business associates, the only
person other than his family, at his funeral.

His wife had recently divorced him and his children wouldnt speak to
him, largely because of his inflexible self righteousness in his
recieved wisdom knowledge.

His Brother, ex army, is now a Parson, having felt an equally strong
Moral Duty.

He of course left his Apple laptop and his Apple phone to his son.


IN general he conformed to the pattern I have seen over the years, than
anyone who thinks Apple is Great, is a bit of a **** and a far bigger
idiot than their amour propre will let them admit.

The more reasonable approach to Apple is 'well its ****, but it more or
less works, as long as you only have other apple ****'





--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 02:17:34 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 13/10/2017 17:22, Mark wrote:

If he's speaking from personal experience he's a realist.

No. You can't generalise like this.

We all have every right to generalise. It helps survival and profits.

Pubs turn away bikers.

In the Yorkshire Dales and Moors pubs, bikers are very welcome - in fact,
across the whole of the UK I cannot recollect having seen recently a 'no
bikers' sign. People generally are far more intelligent (1) than to let
a small section of a group influence their overall thinking. Even more
so when that view is based on historic prejudice.

(1) I do note the exceptions particularly on this group.

On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 02:16:05 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 13/10/2017 16:58, Mark Allread wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:46:15 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 13/10/2017 13:45, Mark wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:38:54 +0100, "New OAP ..."
wrote:


"Michael Chare" wrote in message
news Is this something that you welcome?

Does it increase the risk of fraud?


always pay cash at a Paki run petrol station........

Racist.


If he's speaking from prejudice he's a racist. If he's speaking from
personal experience he's a realist. You didn't know which category he
was in so you had no right to call him an offensive name.

But if its his personal experience of just one Pakistani should he then
cast all the same?

No that wouldn't be sensible.

Well thank goodness for that!

But if he'd had problems with a
significantly higher proportion of Pakistanis than, say, Poles, he'd be
within his moral rights to discriminate. You could call this racism, but
actually it's race-based generalisation.

and if his experience had been with one of the many British run stations
or other British conmen, thieves, whatever I'd be delighted if he would
then admit to using precisely the same level of caution.

On 15/10/17 14:37, Mark Allread wrote:
On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 02:17:34 +0100, Bill Wright wrote:

On 13/10/2017 17:22, Mark wrote:

If he's speaking from personal experience he's a realist.

No. You can't generalise like this.

We all have every right to generalise. It helps survival and profits.

Pubs turn away bikers.

In the Yorkshire Dales and Moors pubs, bikers are very welcome - in fact,
across the whole of the UK I cannot recollect having seen recently a 'no
bikers' sign. People generally are far more intelligent (1) than to let
a small section of a group influence their overall thinking. Even more
so when that view is based on historic prejudice.

I really like bikers. Lots of em turn up at our local.

(1) I do note the exceptions particularly on this group.



--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

"Huge" wrote in message
...

On 14/10/2017 18:03, Hankat wrote:

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security

"vastly better" is an odd way to spell "inferior".

Nothing inferior about adding one time tokens to
what is used with contactless cards so the merchant
never gets anything that can be used again after you
have left the store or have done the online transaction
and never gets anything they can do fraud with.

AndroidPay is almost as secure for the same reason.
The main aspect of less security is that some android
phones will do an AndroidPay transaction without
being unlocked and so someone stealing or finding
the phone can do some AndroidPay transactions, That
risk is easily avoided by not having one of those phones.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 15/10/17 10:17, Huge wrote:
On 14/10/2017 18:03, Hankat wrote:

Yes we are when you have enough of a clue to put your cards
on ApplePay for the vastly better security

"vastly better" is an odd way to spell "inferior".


LOL.

Hankat think new shiny thing make all better!

He has enough of a clue to realise that a system which
uses one time tokens is vastly more secure than one that
doesnt and which allows the merchant to steal stuff they
can use later for extra transactions after you have gone.

Bob Minchin wrote:

The worrying thing, gleaned from a couple of things I read seems that
customers have to authorise/deny organisation from obtaining their
banking information rather than it being controlled at source by their bank.

I just got an email from my bank, mainly about their UK ring-fencing,
but it also included this ...

"Open Banking will enable you to share your bank account data with other
companies if you give permission. This means you will be able to see
multiple bank accounts and transactions in one place (for example on
your Barclays Mobile Banking) even if they're from different banks. You
will also be able to allow other companies to give payment instructions
from your account. If you don't want to use these new services, you
won't notice any differences in the way you bank, as you will always
have to provide permission for the new services."