www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

Sounds a /little/ over dramatic to me. Presuambly some cost cutting
going on in production but how much cable ever gets near its rated
capacity? Unlikely to be a problem on lighting circuits these days. I'd
have thought poorly screwed down terminals would still be more of a
hazard on domestic ring circuits.

I've seen a few commercial installations in the last few years and it
amazes me just how many breakers get put in the main box on relatively
small projects. Great for granularity of isolation, and in light of this
keeping the average current down, but must eat miles of cable that
someone's paying for.

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

"If it overheats, it will ignite anything that touches it. If it's
against a plasterboard wall that will ignite."

As Scott says, sounds a bit OTT.

No indication in the article of how far out of spec it was, or what
proportion was affected.

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

Be nice to know who was actually selling this stuff.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 13:15:44 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

"If it overheats, it will ignite anything that touches it. If it's
against a plasterboard wall that will ignite."

I don't really understand that, surely anything at the right temerature will ignite something next to it if the temperature is abouve the ignition point.

On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

I suspect a typical dumbing down BBC again...

Just watched 5 minutes of the 1pm news. American police chief said they
found 23 guns in the hotel and 19 in the home of the shooter, or as the
BBC immediately put it: "over 40 guns", and then the policeman said 515
injured, or as the BBC put it: "over 500".

I suppose when you manage to negotiate a £500,000 salary for reading the
news, you do feel you have the right to treat your viewers who pay your
salary as idiots...

In article ,
pamela wrote:
On 12:32 3 Oct 2017, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

How did substandard cable get sold in the UK in the first place?

Quite. It's not the sort of thing you'd buy in a Sunday market or corner
shop. I'd hope any of the usual suppliers - a wholesaler or shed - would
only buy from a reputable source.

Aren't there regulations to ensure a suitable standard? Maybe
there's no enforcement but surely a lab or agency would have checked
the cable and issued a pass certificate.

Grenfell Tower.

--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
pamela wrote:
On 12:32 3 Oct 2017, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

How did substandard cable get sold in the UK in the first place?

Quite. It's not the sort of thing you'd buy in a Sunday market or corner
shop. I'd hope any of the usual suppliers - a wholesaler or shed - would
only buy from a reputable source.

Atlas Kablo *was* was reputable source for many years. Its only after
that their previously tested and approved cables were found to now be of
a lower inadequate quality, that their licence various ranges was suspended.

Aren't there regulations to ensure a suitable standard? Maybe
there's no enforcement but surely a lab or agency would have checked
the cable and issued a pass certificate.

Indeed they do. That is how the reduction in quality was detected.


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 14:22:56 UTC+1, JoeJoe wrote:
On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

I suspect a typical dumbing down BBC again...

Just watched 5 minutes of the 1pm news. American police chief said they
found 23 guns in the hotel and 19 in the home of the shooter, or as the
BBC immediately put it: "over 40 guns",

Well that is correct isn't it. 23+19 is 42.
They haven't said those are his only guns, he might have more in a lockup or shed or car.

and then the policeman said 515
injured, or as the BBC put it: "over 500".

again true and this also true, maybe there's still some that haven't been counted or it depends what you mean by injured.
if someone was filming and tripped over and fell knocking themselves out (yes peole have killed themselves filming things) would or should that be added to the number of injured.
When I first heard the report it was that at least 2 people had died , next it was at least 20 then at least 52 last night it was at least 59.
at 15:06 UK time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41479011
Police are working to establish the motive behind a mass shooting which left 59 people dead and another 527 injured at a Las Vegas concert.


So your report of 515 injured is WRONG. over 500 is RIGHT.



I suppose when you manage to negotiate a £500,000 salary for reading the
news, you do feel you have the right to treat your viewers who pay your
salary as idiots...

it seems some are....

On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

From the electrical safety first website (posted in 2010):

Atlas Kablo has listed on its website batch numbers of products known to
be affected at this time by the BASEC suspension and distributors are
urged to inform their customers. They have a 2010 manufacturing date and
are marked with the manufacturers identification `Atlas Kablo.

The suspension by BASEC remains in place and cables affected a

Flat twin, single and 3-core with CPC (BS 6004 Table 8 and IS 201-4
Table 1, 1.0 sqmm €“ 16 sqmm)

Single core unsheathed (BS 6004 Table 4a, 1.5 sqmm €“ 35 sqmm)

Single core sheathed (BS 6004 Table 7, 1.5 sqmm €“ 35 sqmm).


Cables affected by the HAR scheme certification licence suspension have
also been found to have insufficient copper leading to high conductor
resistance. Cables affected are H05VV-F type, PVC insulated and sheathed
in sizes ranging from 0.75 sqmm to 4.00 sqmm and with 2, 3, 4 and 5 cores.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
pamela wrote:
I wonder if the general situation is a bit like the market for USB
mains chargers.

It's hard enough to get one of those chargers that actually
delivers the specified current rating, no matter how carefully you
shop to get the genuine article. Counterfeits seems to have a
stranglehold on the market. Which leads me to think that if the
current rating is faked then so might the safety approvals.

All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.

Must admit to not having had a problem with a USB charger - but have heard
of plenty who have.

I now use a multiple outlet one which is part of a mains socket (came from
TLC and part of their expensive Chelsea range) so at least any fire etc
would be contained within the steel back box. ;-) Assuming the battery
doesn't explode, of course.

It does make you wonder how much money the maker saves by selling
something that doesn't deliver the current it claims. Must be tiny.

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
Atlas Kablo *was* was reputable source for many years. Its only after
that their previously tested and approved cables were found to now be of
a lower inadequate quality, that their licence various ranges was
suspended.

So they were presumably buying stuff in from a non reputable source? You
can't really make something yourself with an inadequate amount of copper
by mistake.

Aren't there regulations to ensure a suitable standard? Maybe
there's no enforcement but surely a lab or agency would have checked
the cable and issued a pass certificate.

Indeed they do. That is how the reduction in quality was detected.


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

Really? It used materials which weren't suitable for the job. Cheaper than
those which were. Exactly the same as using less copper than needed in
cable. To increase profits.

--
*Why is 'abbreviation' such a long word?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 16:37:32 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
pamela wrote:
I wonder if the general situation is a bit like the market for USB
mains chargers.

It's hard enough to get one of those chargers that actually
delivers the specified current rating, no matter how carefully you
shop to get the genuine article. Counterfeits seems to have a
stranglehold on the market. Which leads me to think that if the
current rating is faked then so might the safety approvals.

All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.

Must admit to not having had a problem with a USB charger - but have heard
of plenty who have.

I had one that went bang literly.
But the chargers supplied with my iuDevices have all worked OK and never caused a problem.

Although I did just get this 'report' at the top of a google spreadsheet I've had open all day.

" This webpage was reloaded because it was using significant energy."

If it said memory or RAM or something but energy ?
Maybe I should invest in a windmill.
Or in this lab something that turns sound into power/energy, we've hit 91db today.



It does make you wonder how much money the maker saves by selling
something that doesn't deliver the current it claims. Must be tiny.

Maybe it's not the components as they are pretty standard surface mount I think it's the board & contruction quality and insulation etc.. not being up to it.
When you see a charger for £1.99 and sometimes 99p I really wonder about them.

pamela wrote:

On 15:09 3 Oct 2017, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
pamela wrote:
On 12:32 3 Oct 2017, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

How did substandard cable get sold in the UK in the first
place?

Quite. It's not the sort of thing you'd buy in a Sunday market
or corner shop. I'd hope any of the usual suppliers - a
wholesaler or shed - would only buy from a reputable source.

Atlas Kablo *was* was reputable source for many years. Its only
after that their previously tested and approved cables were
found to now be of a lower inadequate quality, that their
licence various ranges was suspended.

Aren't there regulations to ensure a suitable standard? Maybe
there's no enforcement but surely a lab or agency would have
checked the cable and issued a pass certificate.

Indeed they do. That is how the reduction in quality was
detected.


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

I wonder if the general situation is a bit like the market for USB
mains chargers.

It's hard enough to get one of those chargers that actually
delivers the specified current rating, no matter how carefully you
shop to get the genuine article. Counterfeits seems to have a
stranglehold on the market. Which leads me to think that if the
current rating is faked then so might the safety approvals.

All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.

AFAIK, things like USB chargers are not officially inspected unless they
are complained about to Trading Standards, Otherwise the manufacturer
certifies them and the importer (who may well be the consumer) is also
responsible for ensuring that they meet standards, though not
necessarily by testing them again. Relying on well-founded confidence
in the manufacturer is sufficient, provided nothing goes wrong.





--

Roger Hayter

On 03/10/2017 17:33, Roger Hayter wrote:
pamela wrote:

On 15:09 3 Oct 2017, John Rumm wrote:

On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
pamela wrote:
On 12:32 3 Oct 2017, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

How did substandard cable get sold in the UK in the first
place?

Quite. It's not the sort of thing you'd buy in a Sunday market
or corner shop. I'd hope any of the usual suppliers - a
wholesaler or shed - would only buy from a reputable source.

Atlas Kablo *was* was reputable source for many years. Its only
after that their previously tested and approved cables were
found to now be of a lower inadequate quality, that their
licence various ranges was suspended.

Aren't there regulations to ensure a suitable standard? Maybe
there's no enforcement but surely a lab or agency would have
checked the cable and issued a pass certificate.

Indeed they do. That is how the reduction in quality was
detected.


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

I wonder if the general situation is a bit like the market for USB
mains chargers.

It's hard enough to get one of those chargers that actually
delivers the specified current rating, no matter how carefully you
shop to get the genuine article. Counterfeits seems to have a
stranglehold on the market. Which leads me to think that if the
current rating is faked then so might the safety approvals.

All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.

AFAIK, things like USB chargers are not officially inspected unless they
are complained about to Trading Standards, Otherwise the manufacturer
certifies them and the importer (who may well be the consumer) is also
responsible for ensuring that they meet standards, though not
necessarily by testing them again. Relying on well-founded confidence
in the manufacturer is sufficient, provided nothing goes wrong.





Under what's called the New Legislative Framework a manufacturer
declares conformance with the relevant Directives, usually having
performed tests to meet the standards that are published in the Official
Journal of the EU in support of those Directives. The CE mark is applied
to show that the product complies with all relevant Directives and can
therefore be traded across EU borders and Placed On The Market.
This is very much the GCSE level version, if you have a spare few days
then much more is available via:
https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-m...e-framework_en

On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:21:09 +0100, John Rumm
coalesced the vapors of human
experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension...

On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

From the electrical safety first website (posted in 2010):

Atlas Kablo has listed on its website batch numbers of products known to
be affected at this time by the BASEC suspension and distributors are
urged to inform their customers. They have a 2010 manufacturing date and
are marked with the manufacturer’s identification `Atlas Kablo’.

The suspension by BASEC remains in place and cables affected a

Flat twin, single and 3-core with CPC (BS 6004 Table 8 and IS 201-4
Table 1, 1.0 sqmm – 16 sqmm)

Single core unsheathed (BS 6004 Table 4a, 1.5 sqmm – 35 sqmm)

Single core sheathed (BS 6004 Table 7, 1.5 sqmm – 35 sqmm).


Cables affected by the HAR scheme certification licence suspension have
also been found to have insufficient copper leading to high conductor
resistance. Cables affected are H05VV-F type, PVC insulated and sheathed
in sizes ranging from 0.75 sqmm to 4.00 sqmm and with 2, 3, 4 and 5 cores.

A quick Web search suggests that copper power cable is, or should be,
pretty much pure copper, so it begs the question what was this stuff
alloyed with?

--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

On 03/10/2017 15:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

The BBC made that connection at the bottom of the article!


--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 16:37:32 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
pamela wrote:
I wonder if the general situation is a bit like the market for USB
mains chargers.

It's hard enough to get one of those chargers that actually
delivers the specified current rating, no matter how carefully you
shop to get the genuine article. Counterfeits seems to have a
stranglehold on the market. Which leads me to think that if the
current rating is faked then so might the safety approvals.

All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.

Must admit to not having had a problem with a USB charger - but have
heard
of plenty who have.

I had one that went bang literly.
But the chargers supplied with my iuDevices have all worked OK and never
caused a problem.

Although I did just get this 'report' at the top of a google spreadsheet
I've had open all day.

" This webpage was reloaded because it was using significant energy."

If it said memory or RAM or something but energy ?
Maybe I should invest in a windmill.
Or in this lab something that turns sound into power/energy, we've hit
91db today.



It does make you wonder how much money the maker saves by selling
something that doesn't deliver the current it claims. Must be tiny.

Maybe it's not the components as they are pretty standard surface mount

Its more complicated than that. Look at Big Clive's strip downs sometime.

I think it's the board & contruction quality and insulation etc.. not
being up to it.

Not always.

When you see a charger for £1.99 and sometimes 99p I really wonder about
them.

The ones apple flogs cost a hell of a lot more than £1.99

On 03/10/2017 16:02, pamela wrote:


All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.


CE = Chinese Export

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 03/10/2017 19:59, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2017 15:21:09 +0100, John Rumm
coalesced the vapors of human
experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension...

On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

From the electrical safety first website (posted in 2010):

Atlas Kablo has listed on its website batch numbers of products known to
be affected at this time by the BASEC suspension and distributors are
urged to inform their customers. They have a 2010 manufacturing date and
are marked with the manufacturer’s identification `Atlas Kablo’.

The suspension by BASEC remains in place and cables affected a

Flat twin, single and 3-core with CPC (BS 6004 Table 8 and IS 201-4
Table 1, 1.0 sqmm – 16 sqmm)

Single core unsheathed (BS 6004 Table 4a, 1.5 sqmm – 35 sqmm)

Single core sheathed (BS 6004 Table 7, 1.5 sqmm – 35 sqmm).


Cables affected by the HAR scheme certification licence suspension have
also been found to have insufficient copper leading to high conductor
resistance. Cables affected are H05VV-F type, PVC insulated and sheathed
in sizes ranging from 0.75 sqmm to 4.00 sqmm and with 2, 3, 4 and 5 cores.

A quick Web search suggests that copper power cable is, or should be,
pretty much pure copper, so it begs the question what was this stuff
alloyed with?

ISTR, that some were simply under sized rather than less pure.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2017 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2017 15:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

The BBC made that connection at the bottom of the article!

And?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2017 15:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

The BBC made that connection at the bottom of the article!

And?

The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There have
to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.

--
*If they arrest the Energizer Bunny, would they charge it with battery? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2017 15:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

The BBC made that connection at the bottom of the article!

And?

The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off.

Yes.

There have to be standards

Yes, with something as important as electrical wiring etc, anyway.

and quality checks controlled by the state.

Just not feasible to be continually checking every single
shipment or even batch to see if something has changed.

Not feasible to dismantle every USB charger to check what
some chinese ****up of an engineer has chosen to do either.

JoeJoe posted
On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

I suspect a typical dumbing down BBC again...

Just watched 5 minutes of the 1pm news. American police chief said they
found 23 guns in the hotel and 19 in the home of the shooter, or as the
BBC immediately put it: "over 40 guns", and then the policeman said 515
injured, or as the BBC put it: "over 500".

I suppose when you manage to negotiate a £500,000 salary for reading
the news, you do feel you have the right to treat your viewers who pay
your salary as idiots...


Do you also complain when physics books tell you the speed of light is
about 3*10^8 m/s instead of 2.99792458*10^8 m/s?

--
Jack

On 03/10/2017 23:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2017 15:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

The BBC made that connection at the bottom of the article!

And?

The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There have
to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.


We had in place the Approved Cables Inititive (ACI) and British
Approvals Service for Cables (BASEC) to assess, license and police these
matters.

Routine testing of samples by ACI found that some of Atlas Kablo's
cables were no longer meeting the BS requirements, and BASEC suspended
their license. BASEC also did their own testing and concluded there was
a serious decline in quality across its range of products.

Atlas was then required by BASEC to assist the market in locating and
recovering the the affected cable from the supply chain. Atlas also
published the batch numbers of the affected cables.

What else would you have liked to happen? A central government database
of every reel of cable sold, and forms filled in quadruplicate
identifying where every bit of it was used, policed by a whole new
quango of cable usage data loggers?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/17 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

I had a heart attack until I managed to verify my "Atom Kablo" was
totally unreleated to this "Atlas Kablo"

Anyway, sticking to British cable from now on...

In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There have
to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.


We had in place the Approved Cables Inititive (ACI) and British
Approvals Service for Cables (BASEC) to assess, license and police these
matters.

Routine testing of samples by ACI found that some of Atlas Kablo's
cables were no longer meeting the BS requirements, and BASEC suspended
their license. BASEC also did their own testing and concluded there was
a serious decline in quality across its range of products.

So Atlas were prosecuted for supplying BS marked cables that didn't
comply?

Atlas was then required by BASEC to assist the market in locating and
recovering the the affected cable from the supply chain. Atlas also
published the batch numbers of the affected cables.

What else would you have liked to happen? A central government database
of every reel of cable sold, and forms filled in quadruplicate
identifying where every bit of it was used, policed by a whole new
quango of cable usage data loggers?

If a vast amount of this fake cable managed to be sold, there is obviously
something not working as intended.

--
*Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 20:20:02 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 16:37:32 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
pamela wrote:
I wonder if the general situation is a bit like the market for USB
mains chargers.

It's hard enough to get one of those chargers that actually
delivers the specified current rating, no matter how carefully you
shop to get the genuine article. Counterfeits seems to have a
stranglehold on the market. Which leads me to think that if the
current rating is faked then so might the safety approvals.

All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.

Must admit to not having had a problem with a USB charger - but have
heard
of plenty who have.

I had one that went bang literly.
But the chargers supplied with my iuDevices have all worked OK and never
caused a problem.

Although I did just get this 'report' at the top of a google spreadsheet
I've had open all day.

" This webpage was reloaded because it was using significant energy."

If it said memory or RAM or something but energy ?
Maybe I should invest in a windmill.
Or in this lab something that turns sound into power/energy, we've hit
91db today.



It does make you wonder how much money the maker saves by selling
something that doesn't deliver the current it claims. Must be tiny.

Maybe it's not the components as they are pretty standard surface mount

Its more complicated than that. Look at Big Clive's strip downs sometime.

Yes I know it is.


I think it's the board & contruction quality and insulation etc.. not
being up to it.

Not always.

It usually is that's what happened to samsung batteries.


When you see a charger for £1.99 and sometimes 99p I really wonder about
them.

The ones apple flogs cost a hell of a lot more than £1.99

yes I know maybe that's why my aplpe ones are still working and teh cheapo I have went bang sparks were seen at the USB port and teh USB plub had blackened slightly.

On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 20:20:12 UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2017 16:02, pamela wrote:


All this certification is only useful if fakes actually get
stopped.


CE = Chinese Export

:-D, so that's what it means. ;-)

On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 23:45:39 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 20:18, alan_m wrote:
On 03/10/2017 15:09, John Rumm wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:


Grenfell Tower.

Not a helpful comparison.

The BBC made that connection at the bottom of the article!

And?

The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There have
to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.

But you can't check every product, what you can do is take a sample from a manufactirer, supplier or shipper and test a few products and base your results on that.
Most people do rely on suppliers rightly or wrongly

On 04/10/2017 10:29, Tim Watts wrote:
On 03/10/17 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

I had a heart attack until I managed to verify my "Atom Kablo" was
totally unreleated to this "Atlas Kablo"

Anyway, sticking to British cable from now on...

Not sure why this has popped up again really, since this was all back in
2010...

--
Cheers,

John.

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In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There
have to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.

But you can't check every product, what you can do is take a sample from
a manufactirer, supplier or shipper and test a few products and base
your results on that.

Given how much of that cable ended up being sold, something needs
tightening up.


Most people do rely on suppliers rightly or wrongly

It's likely the maker passed on at least some of the savings they made in
materials to the UK supplier.

--
*Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 04/10/2017 12:38, John Rumm wrote:
Not sure why this has popped up again really, since this was all back in
2010...

+1

Although some reports claim that the CSA was below spec none of them say
by how much. In the absence of supporting reports of lots of fires due
to overheating cables in the last 7 years I'm inclined to assume that it
wasn't seriously below spec.

--
Mike Clarke

In article ,
Mike Clarke wrote:
On 04/10/2017 12:38, John Rumm wrote:
Not sure why this has popped up again really, since this was all back in
2010...

+1

Although some reports claim that the CSA was below spec none of them say
by how much. In the absence of supporting reports of lots of fires due
to overheating cables in the last 7 years I'm inclined to assume that it
wasn't seriously below spec.

Probably the BBC just digging up an old story on a slow news day.

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 4 October 2017 13:43:50 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
whisky-dave wrote:
The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There
have to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.

But you can't check every product, what you can do is take a sample from
a manufactirer, supplier or shipper and test a few products and base
your results on that.

Given how much of that cable ended up being sold, something needs
tightening up.

I agree weren't we 100% in the EU at the time. Did the cable have a valid CE mark ?



Most people do rely on suppliers rightly or wrongly

It's likely the maker passed on at least some of the savings they made in
materials to the UK supplier.

Perhaps, but that's not how it worked with the horse meat lasagne.
Those making the food didn't get any discount, they were told it was beef so paid for beef.

John Rumm wrote:

Routine testing of samples by ACI found that some of Atlas Kablo's
cables were no longer meeting the BS requirements, and BASEC suspended
their license. BASEC also did their own testing and concluded there was
a serious decline in quality across its range of products.

I recall a story told about one of the senior engineers at what
was then the Railway Technical Centre in Derby.

Apparently an inspector, with time on his hands, whilst checking
a vehicle build line, decided to count the strands in a heavy
flexible power cable. He eventually determined that it was one
short of the expected 905 strands.

The report was duly passed to Derby, and in the space on the form
for action required, the engineer wrote "wrap one round the
outside". Unfortunately, when this was returned, it wasn't
realised that it shouldn't actually be taken seriously, and was
forwarded to the supplier to implement.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

On 04/10/2017 10:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
John Rumm wrote:
The point is you can't rely on a supplier not to rip you off. There have
to be standards and quality checks controlled by the state.


We had in place the Approved Cables Inititive (ACI) and British
Approvals Service for Cables (BASEC) to assess, license and police these
matters.

Routine testing of samples by ACI found that some of Atlas Kablo's
cables were no longer meeting the BS requirements, and BASEC suspended
their license. BASEC also did their own testing and concluded there was
a serious decline in quality across its range of products.

So Atlas were prosecuted for supplying BS marked cables that didn't
comply?

I doubt it... they are based in Turkey, and the went tits up not long
after IIRC.

Atlas was then required by BASEC to assist the market in locating and
recovering the the affected cable from the supply chain. Atlas also
published the batch numbers of the affected cables.

What else would you have liked to happen? A central government database
of every reel of cable sold, and forms filled in quadruplicate
identifying where every bit of it was used, policed by a whole new
quango of cable usage data loggers?

If a vast amount of this fake cable managed to be sold, there is obviously
something not working as intended.

I would guess compared to the total amount sold each year its a drop in
the ocean.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/10/2017 14:10, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 13:15:44 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

"If it overheats, it will ignite anything that touches it. If it's
against a plasterboard wall that will ignite."

I don't really understand that, surely anything at the right temerature will ignite something next to it if the temperature is abouve the ignition point.


And everyone at this time of the year is out looking for scraps of
plasterboard for bonfire night. It gives the fire that extra something
that wood never seems to do:-)




--
Adam

On 03/10/2017 13:44, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

Be nice to know who was actually selling this stuff.


Most electrical wholesalers sold it.

--
Adam

On 05/10/17 20:02, ARW wrote:
On 03/10/2017 14:10, whisky-dave wrote:
On Tuesday, 3 October 2017 13:15:44 UTC+1, newshoundÂ* wrote:
On 03/10/2017 12:32, dennis@home wrote:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41391343

"If it overheats, it will ignite anything that touches it. If it's
against a plasterboard wall that will ignite."

I don't really understand that, surely anything at the right
temerature will ignite something next to it if the temperature is
abouve the ignition point.


And everyone at this time of the year is out looking for scraps of
plasterboard for bonfire night. It gives the fire that extra something
that wood never seems to do:-)



WE had forgotten how clueless dennis actually was.

Hint for dennis. CaSO4 is already 'burnt' so you can't do it again.




--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher