I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is
such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension
from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.


It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering
if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

How are you going to keep the 'leisure battery' charged? It'll need
to be a *big* battery, a typical vacuum cleaner will take 600 to 1200
watts, at 12 volts that makes 50 to 100 amps. To handle that you
need a *big* battery and good solid recharging facilities.

--
Chris Green
·

On 09/09/2017 23:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage


Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

For the power tools / vacuum, you are probably looking at say 1kW, or
getting towards that. A leisure battery won't run an inverter for long
supplying the required current to power the inverter and the load,
unless it is a monster (over 100Ah).

(A quick look on Ebay shows a 1kW modified sinewave invertor with 85%
eff. So, with a 1kW load, allowing for losses, you'd need 98A at 12V.
You don't get an hour from 100Ah battery drawing 98A. )

Of course, those numbers are on the limit etc but having to stop and
wait while the battery recharges is no fun.

A cheap generator is an option, you can pick up 2 stoke ones for less
than the price of a decent leisure battery. Lidl did a 4 stoke one which
was under £100 not long back and they are quieter. It may have even been
an 'invertor' one, which will run things like PCs etc. The 2 stroke
ones are OK but noisy and smell a bit. A small one will run, say, a
small vacuum or drill.

Years ago I used a generator (a small Honda) in a similar situation. I
sold it when I moved house and regretted it many times. I've since
bought another one for motorhoming and had it converted to run on
propane. We take it on some trips.





--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?
--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Graham. Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?

Or doing it properly & burying something suitable in a trench?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

A leisure battery of reasonable capacity and an inverter will be heavy
to lug about.
Your choice but I think you would be better of with a small inverter
generator. Lidl do one about once a year , 1200 Watts , weighs 13kg
so east to carry. usually on sale for around £140.
I got one last year .
You tube clip of one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGSZV1pyZ4w
UK version has UK socket.

if you decide on a generator and can't find/wait for that one the
inverter bit is important, they are far more economical on fuel as
they adapt better to the load requirement and are kinder on sensitive
electrical equipment.
Older style generators small generators don't regulate their voltage
well enough for modern electronics, most power tools would be fine but
one day you may want to take something like a telly or microwave to
the shed.
Failing that if you are planning to run power tools from a battery set
up implies not too long a use, why not use battery tools,lamps and
vacuum cleaner anyway.


G.Harman

On 09/09/2017 23:25, wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

A leisure battery of reasonable capacity and an inverter will be heavy
to lug about.
Your choice but I think you would be better of with a small inverter
generator. Lidl do one about once a year , 1200 Watts , weighs 13kg
so east to carry. usually on sale for around £140.
I got one last year .
You tube clip of one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGSZV1pyZ4w
UK version has UK socket.

if you decide on a generator and can't find/wait for that one the
inverter bit is important, they are far more economical on fuel as
they adapt better to the load requirement and are kinder on sensitive
electrical equipment.
Older style generators small generators don't regulate their voltage
well enough for modern electronics, most power tools would be fine but
one day you may want to take something like a telly or microwave to
the shed.
Failing that if you are planning to run power tools from a battery set
up implies not too long a use, why not use battery tools,lamps and
vacuum cleaner anyway.


G.Harman


I, too, was going to suggest a generator if you really can't install a
proper mains supply.

However, power tools often have a start-up current of several times
their running current, so you will need to take that into account. [I
have tools which my 2kW generator can't start even though they're rated
at well below 2kW]. You probably need to think in terms of a 4 - 5 kW genny.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 23:47:05 +0100, Roger Mills
wrote:

On 09/09/2017 23:25, wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

A leisure battery of reasonable capacity and an inverter will be heavy
to lug about.
Your choice but I think you would be better of with a small inverter
generator.
G.Harman


I, too, was going to suggest a generator if you really can't install a
proper mains supply.

However, power tools often have a start-up current of several times
their running current, so you will need to take that into account. [I
have tools which my 2kW generator can't start even though they're rated
at well below 2kW]. You probably need to think in terms of a 4 - 5 kW genny.

You are quite right to point that out but as Murmansk was proposing to
use a battery and inverter I reckon his power tools will be small
ones, and if he stays with his inverter proposal then that too will
have to be sized in a similar manner.
A 4 to 5kW inverter and battery set will require a large leisure
battery or a bank of them that for the use he has told us will be
quite impractical. the cables from battery to inverter would be hefty
to carry over 400 amps .

G.Harman

G.Harman

On Saturday, 9 September 2017 22:16:04 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

Lighting you can run off a little battery, and if practical run a 12v feed from house to shed to charge it or run the lights direct.

The other stuff takes a lot more power. Either install mains for it or forget about it, there's very little likelihood of a genny being worthwhile. As well as the expense, they're very noisy and cheap ones are short lived.


NT

On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 09/09/2017 23:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it
is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an
extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's
quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and
vacuum cleaner usage


Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

A modest sized solar panel can kick out a lot of power. It's a good way
to maintain the charge of batteries, more so if power tools are only
used say at weekends.

The panels and inverter are not cheap, but quiet and need little attention.

On 09/09/2017 23:16, jim wrote:
Graham. Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?

Or doing it properly & burying something suitable in a trench?

Proper catenary wire with suitable cable suspended counts equally as
"properly" as a buried cable.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
On 09/09/2017 23:16, jim wrote:
Graham. Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is
such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension
from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long
way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum
cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?

Or doing it properly & burying something suitable in a trench?

Proper catenary wire with suitable cable suspended counts equally as
"properly" as a buried cable.

Indeed. My house is even supplied that way from the power
line on poles down the street, and there aint no catenary either.

In article ,
wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is
such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension
from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long
way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum
cleaner usage

A leisure battery of reasonable capacity and an inverter will be heavy to
lug about. Your choice but I think you would be better of with a small
inverter generator. Lidl do one about once a year , 1200 Watts , weighs
13kg so east to carry. usually on sale for around £140. I got one last
year
I bought one from them in June - it wouldn't start. After a great deal of
waiting, and hassle, (I had to send it to their German service agent) I
recieved a new one. Yesterday - when it mattered - that one failed.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

If its going to be habitable in all seasons, I'd suggest finding a way to
get the mains in really.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Murmansk" wrote in message
...
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is
such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension
from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum
cleaner usage

On 10/09/2017 01:08, wrote:
On Saturday, 9 September 2017 22:16:04 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

Lighting you can run off a little battery, and if practical run a 12v feed from house to shed to charge it or run the lights direct.

The other stuff takes a lot more power. Either install mains for it or forget about it, there's very little likelihood of a genny being worthwhile. As well as the expense, they're very noisy and cheap ones are short lived.


I'd agree. A friend had a similar dilemma with his shed about 75 yards
from the house. Looked into a range of options including solar,
generators and inverters.

In the end the mains extension worked out better and cheaper. He saved
money by digging the trench, and an electrician did the wirey bits.


--
Cheers, Rob

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 07:46:08 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
Lidl do one about once a year , 1200 Watts , weighs
13kg so east to carry. usually on sale for around £140. I got one last
year
I bought one from them in June - it wouldn't start. After a great deal of
waiting, and hassle, (I had to send it to their German service agent) I
recieved a new one. Yesterday - when it mattered - that one failed.

I use mine regulary even on jobs where an extension could be used just
to make sure it hasn't suffered from the tendency for unused machinery
to sulk for no apparent reason.
Sounds like you have been unlucky, OTOH hand that's two generators
and one of you , sure you just havn't got the knack or havn't
practised enough. When a storm has just knocked the lights off that's
not the best time to find out a machines little foibles like how much
choke to use or forget the fuel shut off tap, or in the case of that
generator the electrical switch has to be in the on position before
it will start which is a bit counter intuitive, you would think you
could start the engine before switching on the load, in reality it is
just the engine shutoff switch rather than power on off despite where
it has been placed.

G.Harman

John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 09/09/2017 23:16, jim wrote:
Graham. Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?

Or doing it properly & burying something suitable in a trench?

Proper catenary wire with suitable cable suspended counts equally as
"properly" as a buried cable.

.....and looks awful IMHO.
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Brian Reay wrote:
[snip]

Years ago I used a generator (a small Honda) in a similar situation. I
sold it when I moved house and regretted it many times. I've since
bought another one for motorhoming and had it converted to run on
propane. We take it on some trips.

I have a Honda clone, 2.5kw also converted to run on propane (as our
boat has that for cooking anyway). It was very useful until we
installed 3 x 260w solar panels which now keep our leisure batteries
well charged.

--
Chris Green
·

Fredxxx wrote:
On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 09/09/2017 23:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it
is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an
extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's
quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and
vacuum cleaner usage


Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

A modest sized solar panel can kick out a lot of power. It's a good way
to maintain the charge of batteries, more so if power tools are only
used say at weekends.

The panels and inverter are not cheap, but quiet and need little attention.

You need a good (as in 'intelligent') charge controller to ensure that
the batteries are kept fully charged but not overcharged at all. That
adds a bit to the cost too.

Panels are now down below 50p/watt I think.

--
Chris Green
·

wrote:
I, too, was going to suggest a generator if you really can't install a
proper mains supply.

However, power tools often have a start-up current of several times
their running current, so you will need to take that into account. [I
have tools which my 2kW generator can't start even though they're rated
at well below 2kW]. You probably need to think in terms of a 4 - 5 kW genny.

You are quite right to point that out but as Murmansk was proposing to
use a battery and inverter I reckon his power tools will be small
ones, and if he stays with his inverter proposal then that too will
have to be sized in a similar manner.
A 4 to 5kW inverter and battery set will require a large leisure
battery or a bank of them that for the use he has told us will be
quite impractical. the cables from battery to inverter would be hefty
to carry over 400 amps .

I have a very cheap/basic 500 watt inverter on my boat, it was bought
as a stop-gap when my big 3kW inverter died. I've not bothered to
replace it as it runs the following without issues:-

A standard domestic 'under counter' refrigerator
A fairly meaty old B&D electric drill
A 200 watt multi-tool
A sander
A dremel clone

The electric tools are not all run at the same time of course but they
do run while the fridge is connected as well.

--
Chris Green
·

In article ,
wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 07:46:08 +0100, charles
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
Lidl do one about once a year , 1200 Watts , weighs
13kg so east to carry. usually on sale for around £140. I got one last
year
I bought one from them in June - it wouldn't start. After a great deal of
waiting, and hassle, (I had to send it to their German service agent) I
recieved a new one. Yesterday - when it mattered - that one failed.

I use mine regulary even on jobs where an extension could be used just
to make sure it hasn't suffered from the tendency for unused machinery
to sulk for no apparent reason.
Sounds like you have been unlucky, OTOH hand that's two generators
and one of you , sure you just havn't got the knack or havn't
practised enough. When a storm has just knocked the lights off that's
not the best time to find out a machines little foibles like how much
choke to use or forget the fuel shut off tap, or in the case of that
generator the electrical switch has to be in the on position before
it will start which is a bit counter intuitive, you would think you
could start the engine before switching on the load, in reality it is
just the engine shutoff switch rather than power on off despite where
it has been placed.


I'm actually quite good at proving things don't work very well. It must be
my engineering background.

In the case of the generator, first fault was it would not start. I've
started hedge cutters, strimmers and all sorts of similar engines over the
last 50 years. The replacement one started perfectly, so I don't think it
was me.. Yesterday, when a friend was trying to start it he found that the
recoil mechanism on the starter failed, so the starter cord did not
retract. Two completely different problems

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 10:32:05 +0100, charles
wrote:


I'm actually quite good at proving things don't work very well. It must be
my engineering background.
fair enough, unlucky then.
In the case of the generator, first fault was it would not start. I've
started hedge cutters, strimmers and all sorts of similar engines over the
last 50 years. The replacement one started perfectly, so I don't think it
was me.. Yesterday, when a friend was trying to start it he found that the
recoil mechanism on the starter failed, so the starter cord did not
retract.

Isn't there some form of separate Sods law for that? lent lawn mower
syndrome or something? Often caused by unfamiliarity with the machine
in the first place. I gave up lending things unless I go with it.
Lost a good drill once it was 110 volt and I lent it to a mate with
the transformer. His neighbour with whom he was on friendly terms saw
it in his garage when he popped around but not the transformer, my
mate was out but his wife said" I'm sure it will be alright for you to
borrow it" .
Brought it back burnt out, " all I did was change the round pin plug
on it for a normal one as we haven't got a round pin socket."

G.Harman

On 10/09/2017 10:15, Chris Green wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 09/09/2017 23:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it
is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an
extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's
quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and
vacuum cleaner usage


Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

A modest sized solar panel can kick out a lot of power. It's a good way
to maintain the charge of batteries, more so if power tools are only
used say at weekends.

The panels and inverter are not cheap, but quiet and need little attention.

You need a good (as in 'intelligent') charge controller to ensure that
the batteries are kept fully charged but not overcharged at all. That
adds a bit to the cost too.

Panels are now down below 50p/watt I think.

An appropriate robust one:

https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/...e-or-boat.html

suggests nearer £1 per watt. Though I might expect 1/2 of that for a few
hours each day.

Most power tool use is intermittent so it is a doer. The issue is it
cheaper than running a cable with the terminations/fittings and of
course the 'obligatory' certificate?

Fredxxx wrote:
On 10/09/2017 10:15, Chris Green wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 09/09/2017 23:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it
is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an
extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's
quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and
vacuum cleaner usage


Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

A modest sized solar panel can kick out a lot of power. It's a good way
to maintain the charge of batteries, more so if power tools are only
used say at weekends.

The panels and inverter are not cheap, but quiet and need little attention.

You need a good (as in 'intelligent') charge controller to ensure that
the batteries are kept fully charged but not overcharged at all. That
adds a bit to the cost too.

Panels are now down below 50p/watt I think.

An appropriate robust one:

https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/...e-or-boat.html


suggests nearer £1 per watt. Though I might expect 1/2 of that for a few
hours each day.

I was thinking of (and have on my boat) standard 'house' solar panels
with an output of 260 watts or thereabouts per panel. As soon as you
go to 'special' caravan or boat panels you willpay more.


Most power tool use is intermittent so it is a doer. The issue is it
cheaper than running a cable with the terminations/fittings and of
course the 'obligatory' certificate?

Yes, on the boat it makes all the difference between being able to go
'independent' for several days or needing to find a marina/mooring
with electricity. It's not an either/or! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On Sunday, 10 September 2017 05:50:07 UTC+1, Rod Speed wrote:
Proper catenary wire with suitable cable suspended counts equally as
"properly" as a buried cable.
Indeed. My house is even supplied that way from the power
line on poles down the street, and there aint no catenary either.

"aerial bundled cable", looks a lot neater than the old bare wires on insulators.

I don't know if it's permitted in the UK for non-supplier's works ie downstream of the meter.

Owain

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 10:20:02 +0100
Chris Green wrote:

The electric tools are not all run at the same time of course but they
do run while the fridge is connected as well.

But not necessarily running the compressor. We once lived in a house
built after the war, so it had minimal wiring circuits. Occasionally,
the downstairs power circuit fuse would break, and we traced it to the
'fridge cycling on while something else in the kitchen was already on,
such as the kettle or the toaster, along with a TV set in the living
room, and a circulating fan or two. One of these items not being on was
fine, but the last one coming on was too much, especially when it was
the 'fridge.
We had the house rewired with more circuits, the kitchen getting its
own.

--
Davey.

Davey wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 10:20:02 +0100
Chris Green wrote:

The electric tools are not all run at the same time of course but they
do run while the fridge is connected as well.

But not necessarily running the compressor. We once lived in a house
built after the war, so it had minimal wiring circuits. Occasionally,
the downstairs power circuit fuse would break, and we traced it to the
'fridge cycling on while something else in the kitchen was already on,
such as the kettle or the toaster, along with a TV set in the living
room, and a circulating fan or two. One of these items not being on was
fine, but the last one coming on was too much, especially when it was
the 'fridge.
We had the house rewired with more circuits, the kitchen getting its
own.

Actually it *does* manage the fridge compressor cycling when running
one of the tools, things slow a little but it all copes OK. Before I
had the big, new 3 x 100Ah leisure batteries the inverter would pull
the battery voltage down a lot when the compressor ran such that it
sometimes gave up.

--
Chris Green
·

On 10/09/2017 09:49, jim wrote:
John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 09/09/2017 23:16, jim wrote:
Graham. Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?

Or doing it properly & burying something suitable in a trench?

Proper catenary wire with suitable cable suspended counts equally as
"properly" as a buried cable.

....and looks awful IMHO.

Quite possibly, but if you don't have a viable alternative its an
acceptable solution from an electrical and safety point of view.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 10/09/2017 11:32, Fredxxx wrote:
On 10/09/2017 10:15, Chris Green wrote:
Fredxxx wrote:
On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:
On 09/09/2017 23:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it
is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an
extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's
quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and
vacuum cleaner usage


Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

A modest sized solar panel can kick out a lot of power. It's a good way
to maintain the charge of batteries, more so if power tools are only
used say at weekends.

The panels and inverter are not cheap, but quiet and need little
attention.

You need a good (as in 'intelligent') charge controller to ensure that
the batteries are kept fully charged but not overcharged at all.Â* That
adds a bit to the cost too.

Panels are now down below 50p/watt I think.

An appropriate robust one:

https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en/...e-or-boat.html


suggests nearer £1 per watt. Though I might expect 1/2 of that for a few
hours each day.

Most power tool use is intermittent so it is a doer. The issue is it
cheaper than running a cable with the terminations/fittings and of
course the 'obligatory' certificate?


If you power your shed via a 3-pin plug, then why is a 'certificate'
needed ?.

In article ,
Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is
such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension
from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long
way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum
cleaner usage

If you can run an extension cable from the house, installing a proper
mains feed is going to not cost much more than a decent leisure battery
and inverter. And going to be a lot more satisfactory.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 10/09/2017 09:49, jim wrote:
John Rumm Wrote in message:
On 09/09/2017 23:16, jim wrote:
Graham. Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), Murmansk
wrote:

I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage

If you can power your shed from a temporary cable from a bedroom
window, why isn't it possible to have a more permanent arrangement,
suspending a cable from a catenary wire?

Or doing it properly & burying something suitable in a trench?

Proper catenary wire with suitable cable suspended counts equally as
"properly" as a buried cable.

....and looks awful IMHO.



So hang some knickers off it and do away with the washing line.


--
Adam

On 10/09/2017 14:16, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is
such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension
from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long
way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm
wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum
cleaner usage

If you can run an extension cable from the house, installing a proper
mains feed is going to not cost much more than a decent leisure battery
and inverter. And going to be a lot more satisfactory.


That's not always the case. I don't know the OP's set up but I have
worked on jobs where the shed and house are separated by a communal path
or driveway. This needs council or planning permission for a permanent
electrical installation to the shed.

--
Adam

On 09/09/2017 22:14, Murmansk wrote:
I'll be having a new shed/workshop built soon but the position of it is such that I can't have mains power to it except by running an extension from the bedroom window which is a bit of a pain as it's quite a long way.

It's been suggested that I get a leisure battery and inverter and I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of this and suggestions?

I'm wanting it mainly for lighting but occasional power tool and vacuum cleaner usage


For lighting you would be much better off getting boat/caravan lights
and running them off 12 volt batteries.

This is what I do at some stables which I rent. If I need 250 volt, I
take down a portable generator.

OP here

I live in the ground floor flat which is one of 4 in a large Victorian house.

My allotted parking space at the back is where the shed will go. Permanent mains power is not an option.

In view of what's been said I think I might look at just aiming to have some lighting and use battery power tools and the extension lead for the occasional mains power tool.

On 10/09/2017 17:52, Murmansk wrote:
OP here

I live in the ground floor flat which is one of 4 in a large Victorian house.

My allotted parking space at the back is where the shed will go. Permanent mains power is not an option.

In view of what's been said I think I might look at just aiming to have some lighting and use battery power tools and the extension lead for the occasional mains power tool.

I think that is wise. I should probably have mentioned that I had a
couple of relatively cheap (£20 to £40) inverters fail in the 2-3 years
when I was running a handful of CFLs off leisure batteries, and a
battery charge lasts at least twice as long running 12 volt bulbs as
mains with inverter.

On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:

Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

Or avoid some conversion losses by fitting a skylight.


For the power tools / vacuum, you are probably looking at say 1kW, or
getting towards that. A leisure battery won't run an inverter for long
supplying the required current to power the inverter and the load,
unless it is a monster (over 100Ah).

That isn't a monster.


(A quick look on Ebay shows a 1kW modified sinewave invertor with 85%
eff.

Modified sine is no good for any tool that that has variable speed. Just
won't work.

So, with a 1kW load, allowing for losses, you'd need 98A at 12V.
You don't get an hour from 100Ah battery drawing 98A. )

You'd be lucky to get half an hour

Bill

On 10/09/2017 10:15, Chris Green wrote:

Panels are now down below 50p/watt I think.

Still a lot more expensive that biting the bullet and installing a
proper mains supply. What's the problem with a overhead on a catenary?

Bill

On 10/09/2017 11:32, Fredxxx wrote:

Most power tool use is intermittent so it is a doer. The issue is it
cheaper than running a cable with the terminations/fittings and of
course the 'obligatory' certificate?



Power it from a 13A plug in the house and you don't need a certificate.

Bill

On Sunday, 10 September 2017 20:56:17 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:

Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

Or avoid some conversion losses by fitting a skylight.


For the power tools / vacuum, you are probably looking at say 1kW, or
getting towards that. A leisure battery won't run an inverter for long
supplying the required current to power the inverter and the load,
unless it is a monster (over 100Ah).

That isn't a monster.


(A quick look on Ebay shows a 1kW modified sinewave invertor with 85%
eff.

Modified sine is no good for any tool that that has variable speed. Just
won't work.

So, with a 1kW load, allowing for losses, you'd need 98A at 12V.
You don't get an hour from 100Ah battery drawing 98A. )

You'd be lucky to get half an hour

Bill

I have a pre-electric vacuum cleaner. The fan is driven by the wheels, geared up of course. It works well enough if the user is feeling athletic.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Vacuum_cleaner

More practically, most loose dust cleaning is doable with a brush. A cordless vac might do for the remainder.


NT

On 10/09/17 21:09, wrote:
On Sunday, 10 September 2017 20:56:17 UTC+1, Bill Wright wrote:
On 09/09/2017 22:50, Brian Reay wrote:

Leisure battery will run some lights, especially LED. You could even
consider a solar panel to keep it charged.

Or avoid some conversion losses by fitting a skylight.


For the power tools / vacuum, you are probably looking at say 1kW, or
getting towards that. A leisure battery won't run an inverter for long
supplying the required current to power the inverter and the load,
unless it is a monster (over 100Ah).

That isn't a monster.


(A quick look on Ebay shows a 1kW modified sinewave invertor with 85%
eff.

Modified sine is no good for any tool that that has variable speed. Just
won't work.

So, with a 1kW load, allowing for losses, you'd need 98A at 12V.
You don't get an hour from 100Ah battery drawing 98A. )

You'd be lucky to get half an hour

Bill

I have a pre-electric vacuum cleaner. The fan is driven by the wheels, geared up of course. It works well enough if the user is feeling athletic.
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Vacuum_cleaner

More practically, most loose dust cleaning is doable with a brush. A cordless vac might do for the remainder.


NT


Be a good chap and keep it to yourself, we don't want the tree huggers
thinking that is a good idea to stop global warming.