We have a small air compressor similar to this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-2498.../dp/B00CHLSM1O

On start up it will occassionally struggle to get up to speed. It just rumbles and rocks. Has to be turned off and on again.

Is this likely to be easily fixed

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:22:41 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

We have a small air compressor similar to this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-2498.../dp/B00CHLSM1O

On start up it will occassionally struggle to get up to speed. It just rumbles and rocks. Has to be turned off and on again.

Is this likely to be easily fixed

A couple of things ... I'm guessing the motor has a start or run
capacitor and if that has gone (or is going) that it will effect the
overall performance of the motor?

When the compressor comes to pressure (assuming it ever does) and / or
you turn it off using the knob on the top of the control box, you
should hear a 'Tish' as it dumps the air out of the pipe between the
output of the pump and the reservoir. This allows the pump / motor to
start up against no pressure when it turns on the next time and if
that wasn't working on yours (stuck open one way valve where the pump
hose joins the cylinder, or it could be stuck closed, offering too
much back pressure etc), that might have something to do with it?

You could try disconnecting the output hose from the pump (with
everything de pressurised) and then turn it on and see if it all spins
up quickly?

Not directly related but have you ever drained the water off? I was
given a small / silent compressor that seem exceptionally heavy for
it's size and it seemed to come to pressure very quickly, and then
have no real capacity. The cylinder was actually *full* of water as it
had never been drained over it's entire life! (it was used to power a
liquid foam packing gun for a company). [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] I found a 25L 'Wolf' cylinder (new) and took the silent Bambi pump
off the 9L cylinder and made myself something better. ;-)

By better I really mean 'a very quiet compressor', something both my
Tinnitus and neighbours appreciate. ;-)

Not cheap to buy new though ... (for the capacity etc):

https://www.airsupplies.co.uk/bambi-...ir-compressors

fred has brought this to us :
We have a small air compressor similar to this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-2498.../dp/B00CHLSM1O

On start up it will occassionally struggle to get up to speed. It just
rumbles and rocks. Has to be turned off and on again.

Is this likely to be easily fixed

Is that starting with or without any air pressure already in the
cylinder?

On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 11:48:47 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 02:22:41 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

We have a small air compressor similar to this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-2498.../dp/B00CHLSM1O

On start up it will occassionally struggle to get up to speed. It just rumbles and rocks. Has to be turned off and on again.

Is this likely to be easily fixed

A couple of things ... I'm guessing the motor has a start or run
capacitor and if that has gone (or is going) that it will effect the
overall performance of the motor?

When the compressor comes to pressure (assuming it ever does) and / or
you turn it off using the knob on the top of the control box, you
should hear a 'Tish' as it dumps the air out of the pipe between the
output of the pump and the reservoir. This allows the pump / motor to
start up against no pressure when it turns on the next time and if
that wasn't working on yours (stuck open one way valve where the pump
hose joins the cylinder, or it could be stuck closed, offering too
much back pressure etc), that might have something to do with it?

You could try disconnecting the output hose from the pump (with
everything de pressurised) and then turn it on and see if it all spins
up quickly?

Not directly related but have you ever drained the water off? I was
given a small / silent compressor that seem exceptionally heavy for
it's size and it seemed to come to pressure very quickly, and then
have no real capacity. The cylinder was actually *full* of water as it
had never been drained over it's entire life! (it was used to power a
liquid foam packing gun for a company). [1]

Cheers, T i m

[1] I found a 25L 'Wolf' cylinder (new) and took the silent Bambi pump
off the 9L cylinder and made myself something better. ;-)

By better I really mean 'a very quiet compressor', something both my
Tinnitus and neighbours appreciate. ;-)

Not cheap to buy new though ... (for the capacity etc):

https://www.airsupplies.co.uk/bambi-...ir-compressors

Thanks for that. I'll have a look at it tonight.

I have a Bambi also and being slightly hard of hearing I cannot hear it run With hearing aids in place it is just barely noticeable. Such a relief from the racket created but its predecessor

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:56:09 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

snip

Thanks for that. I'll have a look at it tonight.

You are welcome. ;-)

I have a Bambi also and being slightly hard of hearing I cannot hear it run

They are amazing, considering.

With hearing aids in place it is just barely noticeable.

Even more so eh. ;-)

Such a relief from the racket created but its predecessor

Quite. I do also have a 50l twin cylinder jobby but resist using it
because of the noise. It really is nice to have the function of a
compressor that will pump up a car tyre from flat, all be it with a
couple of goes (while the pump catches up).

For general air blowing / dusting, cycle / trailer tyres, popping
pistons out of calipers and doing so whilst standing next to the
compressor and still able to hear the radio ... it's ideal. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. One of the best improvements my mate made to his (commercial)
garage is to put the big / 3 phase compressor in a side building.
Before he did, if it ever fired up while you were talking, or he was
on the phone ... you either had to stop and wait or turn it off!

T i m wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:56:09 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

snip

Thanks for that. I'll have a look at it tonight.

You are welcome. ;-)

I have a Bambi also and being slightly hard of hearing I cannot hear it run

They are amazing, considering.

With hearing aids in place it is just barely noticeable.

Even more so eh. ;-)

Such a relief from the racket created but its predecessor

Quite. I do also have a 50l twin cylinder jobby but resist using it
because of the noise. It really is nice to have the function of a
compressor that will pump up a car tyre from flat, all be it with a
couple of goes (while the pump catches up).

For general air blowing / dusting, cycle / trailer tyres, popping
pistons out of calipers and doing so whilst standing next to the
compressor and still able to hear the radio ... it's ideal. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

p.s. One of the best improvements my mate made to his (commercial)
garage is to put the big / 3 phase compressor in a side building.
Before he did, if it ever fired up while you were talking, or he was
on the phone ... you either had to stop and wait or turn it off!




Try adding a storage tank in the air line, it improves tyre inflation
for large tyres.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Quite. I do also have a 50l twin cylinder jobby but resist using it
because of the noise. It really is nice to have the function of a
compressor that will pump up a car tyre from flat, all be it with a
couple of goes (while the pump catches up).

For general air blowing / dusting, cycle / trailer tyres, popping
pistons out of calipers and doing so whilst standing next to the
compressor and still able to hear the radio ... it's ideal. ;-)

snip

Try adding a storage tank in the air line, it improves tyre inflation
for large tyres.

1) No, really ... adding more storage capacity will give more storage
capacity? Left brainer, please try to remember you are talking to a
right brainer and so the chances are all the possibilities have
already have been considered. ;-)

In fact I even have a portable receiver that I could (effectively and
easily) add in parallel to the output do just what you say but I
prefer to use it portably and there is insufficient regular / reliable
requirement for the extra capacity to justify the extra space,
plumbing and maintenance required.

2) Adding such to the output will only ever realise it's full
advantage if the compressors output pressure regulator it set on
maximum. It would be far better to add it in parallel to the
compressors receiver itself and in that way it can easier make use of
any in-line filters etc.

Cheers, T i m

On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 6:23:18 PM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Quite. I do also have a 50l twin cylinder jobby but resist using it
because of the noise. It really is nice to have the function of a
compressor that will pump up a car tyre from flat, all be it with a
couple of goes (while the pump catches up).

For general air blowing / dusting, cycle / trailer tyres, popping
pistons out of calipers and doing so whilst standing next to the
compressor and still able to hear the radio ... it's ideal. ;-)

snip

Try adding a storage tank in the air line, it improves tyre inflation
for large tyres.

1) No, really ... adding more storage capacity will give more storage
capacity? Left brainer, please try to remember you are talking to a
right brainer and so the chances are all the possibilities have
already have been considered. ;-)

In fact I even have a portable receiver that I could (effectively and
easily) add in parallel to the output do just what you say but I
prefer to use it portably and there is insufficient regular / reliable
requirement for the extra capacity to justify the extra space,
plumbing and maintenance required.

2) Adding such to the output will only ever realise it's full
advantage if the compressors output pressure regulator it set on
maximum. It would be far better to add it in parallel to the
compressors receiver itself and in that way it can easier make use of
any in-line filters etc.

Cheers, T i m

istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable. Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor. Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder. No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:30:34 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

snip

istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable.

Hmmm ...

Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor.

No quite, however ...

Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder.

Understood.

No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.

Rather than risk anything like gas bottles, I have one of these:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb73bl82

Not particularly expensive and about the biggest size most would
consider portable.

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 11:15:22 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:30:34 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

snip

istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable.

Hmmm ...

Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor.

No quite, however ...

Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder.

Understood.

No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.

Rather than risk anything like gas bottles, I have one of these:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb73bl82

Not particularly expensive and about the biggest size most would
consider portable.

Cheers, T i m

Hmmmm but the ghas bottles are free !

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 03:19:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:
snip

Rather than risk anything like gas bottles, I have one of these:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb73bl82

Not particularly expensive and about the biggest size most would
consider portable.

Cheers, T i m

Hmmmm but the ghas bottles are free !

So is a trip to A&E. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 7/19/2017 8:30 AM, fred wrote:


istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable. Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor. Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder. No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.


You've seen "No country for old men"?

On 19/07/2017 08:30, fred wrote:
On Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 6:23:18 PM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:55:21 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

Quite. I do also have a 50l twin cylinder jobby but resist using it
because of the noise. It really is nice to have the function of a
compressor that will pump up a car tyre from flat, all be it with a
couple of goes (while the pump catches up).

For general air blowing / dusting, cycle / trailer tyres, popping
pistons out of calipers and doing so whilst standing next to the
compressor and still able to hear the radio ... it's ideal. ;-)

snip

Try adding a storage tank in the air line, it improves tyre inflation
for large tyres.

1) No, really ... adding more storage capacity will give more storage
capacity? Left brainer, please try to remember you are talking to a
right brainer and so the chances are all the possibilities have
already have been considered. ;-)

In fact I even have a portable receiver that I could (effectively and
easily) add in parallel to the output do just what you say but I
prefer to use it portably and there is insufficient regular / reliable
requirement for the extra capacity to justify the extra space,
plumbing and maintenance required.

2) Adding such to the output will only ever realise it's full
advantage if the compressors output pressure regulator it set on
maximum. It would be far better to add it in parallel to the
compressors receiver itself and in that way it can easier make use of
any in-line filters etc.

Cheers, T i m

istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable. Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor. Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder. No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.

I think they have it marked on them. From another site, I got the
following for 47kg propane bottles - Working pressure 240 psi, test
pressure 480 psi, design burst pressure 960 psi.

SteveW

On 19/07/2017 11:19, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 11:15:22 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:30:34 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

snip

istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable.

Hmmm ...

Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor.

No quite, however ...

Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder.

Understood.

No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.

Rather than risk anything like gas bottles, I have one of these:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb73bl82

Not particularly expensive and about the biggest size most would
consider portable.

Cheers, T i m

Hmmmm but the ghas bottles are free !

And the gas bottles have a collar so if they fall over or roll around,
the valve can't get smashed off the pressurised tank.

BTW I also read that the 47kg propane bottles have a BSP thread when you
undo the valve, I don't know what the 32 pounders have.

SteveW

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:39:11 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 19/07/2017 11:19, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 11:15:22 AM UTC+1, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:30:34 -0700 (PDT), fred
wrote:

snip

istr carpenters on building sites in America using domestic gas cylenders to power their tools where a compressor wasn't viable.

Hmmm ...

Wouldn't require a lot of plumbing to connect to the compressor.

No quite, however ...

Once the top of the gas cylinder had been modified to accept a standard snap lock connector it could be used to attach the tool and with a short length of hose used to refill the gas cylinder.

Understood.

No idea what pressure these gas cylinders would hold.

Rather than risk anything like gas bottles, I have one of these:

http://preview.tinyurl.com/yb73bl82

Not particularly expensive and about the biggest size most would
consider portable.

Cheers, T i m

Hmmmm but the ghas bottles are free !

And the gas bottles have a collar so if they fall over or roll around,
the valve can't get smashed off the pressurised tank.

That is a good thing. I was thinking of building a wooden frame to sit
mine in but it's not been an issue so far.

BTW I also read that the 47kg propane bottles have a BSP thread when you
undo the valve, I don't know what the 32 pounders have.

Do gas cylinders usually have a welded seam along their length as I
believe compressor tanks usually do and are placed at the bottom so if
/ when they do fail, or if they are in a fire etc.

And how would you drain the water out of an ex gas cylinder (short of
turning it up side down etc)?

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:34:53 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

I think they have it marked on them. From another site, I got the
following for 47kg propane bottles - Working pressure 240 psi, test
pressure 480 psi, design burst pressure 960 psi.

I don't think I'd want to be close if it let go at any of those
points, especially when it was full of gas. ;-)

Don't the fire brigade often report seeing (oxy and?) acetylene
bottles flying out of industrial files like fireworks?

Cheers, T i m

On 19/07/2017 23:43, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:34:53 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

I think they have it marked on them. From another site, I got the
following for 47kg propane bottles - Working pressure 240 psi, test
pressure 480 psi, design burst pressure 960 psi.

I don't think I'd want to be close if it let go at any of those
points, especially when it was full of gas. ;-)

Piddling little pressures!

I used to design control and instrumentation systems for industrial
compressors, typically with pressures of between 49 bar and 210 bar. The
smallest had a 330kW motor, the largest electric one an 8MW motor and
others with 24MW gas turbines for the high-flow pipelines crossing
Germany into France.

When I left, they were just quoting for a unit with a discharge pressure
of 125000 psi for a polyethelene plant.

Don't the fire brigade often report seeing (oxy and?) acetylene
bottles flying out of industrial files like fireworks?

They do tend to worry about them and concentrate on spraying them to
keep them cool.

SteveW

On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:58:28 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

On 19/07/2017 23:43, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 22:34:53 +0100, Steve Walker
wrote:

snip

I think they have it marked on them. From another site, I got the
following for 47kg propane bottles - Working pressure 240 psi, test
pressure 480 psi, design burst pressure 960 psi.

I don't think I'd want to be close if it let go at any of those
points, especially when it was full of gas. ;-)

Piddling little pressures!

;-(

I used to design control and instrumentation systems for industrial
compressors, typically with pressures of between 49 bar and 210 bar. The
smallest had a 330kW motor, the largest electric one an 8MW motor and
others with 24MW gas turbines for the high-flow pipelines crossing
Germany into France.

Ok.

When I left, they were just quoting for a unit with a discharge pressure
of 125000 psi for a polyethelene plant.

Feck!

The thing is though I'm assuming that all the safety features would be
in place for each system or that they were intrinsically safe because
of what was under pressure (gas / liquid / molten plastic etc)?

Like, I know they often test pressure vessels (steam boilers, gas
bottles, compressor reservoirs?) using water because if they do fail
there is little chance of anything nasty happening?

Don't the fire brigade often report seeing (oxy and?) acetylene
bottles flying out of industrial files like fireworks?

They do tend to worry about them and concentrate on spraying them to
keep them cool.

And I think they carry on spraying them for some time after the main
fire is out.

Cheers, T i m

T i m wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

the gas bottles have a collar so if they fall over or roll around,
the valve can't get smashed off the pressurised tank.

That is a good thing.

I was surprised the toolsatan portable tank linked earlier *didn't* have
any protection to the valve/gauge. Maybe it comes with an instruction
leaflet saying it must be emptied before being carried anywhere :-P

On Thu, 20 Jul 2017 10:47:02 +0100, Andy Burns
wrote:

T i m wrote:

Steve Walker wrote:

the gas bottles have a collar so if they fall over or roll around,
the valve can't get smashed off the pressurised tank.

That is a good thing.

I was surprised the toolsatan portable tank linked earlier *didn't* have
any protection to the valve/gauge.

Me too in a way.

Maybe it comes with an instruction
leaflet saying it must be emptied before being carried anywhere :-P

It did come with some form of (scant) instruction and OOI I'll see if
I can dig it and let you know. ;-)

Cheers, T i m