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  #1   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I want to know if a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor is powerful
enough to fill a 5-gal air tank with enough pressure. I intend to use
the air-tank to power a brad gun (or a pinner) to shoot brads (let say
20 brads a day).

Because my garage workshop is near the property line, I want to keep
the noise down when I am doing woodworking. One of the thing that I
want to purchase is a brad gun. But my understanding is that those
cheap/small air compressor (oil-less and direct-drive) are very noisy,
and the relatively quiet air compressor (oil-lubed and belt-driven)
are expensive and big. I want to be able to (1) keep the noise down in
the workshop, (2) limit the space requirement, (3) reduce cost.

One way to do this is to use an air tank that I can fill it up in gas
station. But according to messages that I come across in this
newsgroup, I get an impression that this will not work because the air
pump in a gas station cannot fill the air tank with enough pressure,
and the pressure in air tank will drop to unusable level after
shooting a small number of nails.

Another way to do this is to place a small/cheap air compressor in the
basement, and run a long air hose to the garage workshop. But this is
impractical for me because I don't want to keep the door or the window
open to let the air hose out, and I don't want to go through the
trouble of adding an air hose connector outside my house.

I am thinking of buying a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor, leaving
it in a corner of my basement, and using it to fill a 5-gal air tank.
Then, I can bring the air tank to the shop to shoot brads. I "think"
the noise from the pan-cake air compressor should not be a problem if
I leave it in the basement. One more benefit is that the air
compressor will not use the very limited power supply available in my
garage. Another benefit is that I can get the air tank first, try to
fill it in a local gas station and see how many brads I can get from
it before I buy the pan-cake air compressor.

Does my plan make sense? Will this work? Any down side that I may have
overlooked?

Thanks in advance for any comment.

Jay Chan
  #2   Report Post  
Kevin P. Fleming
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a BradGun?

Jay Chan wrote:

I am thinking of buying a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor, leaving
it in a corner of my basement, and using it to fill a 5-gal air tank.
Then, I can bring the air tank to the shop to shoot brads. I "think"
the noise from the pan-cake air compressor should not be a problem if
I leave it in the basement. One more benefit is that the air
compressor will not use the very limited power supply available in my
garage. Another benefit is that I can get the air tank first, try to
fill it in a local gas station and see how many brads I can get from
it before I buy the pan-cake air compressor.


You'll need to purchase a regulator, as most air tanks don't have them
and you can't supply unregulated tank pressure to the brad nailer
(unless you want to max out your tank pressure at the highest pressure
the nailer can handle, but that would be silly). If you get an air tank
rated at 150psi (and larger, say 10gal), and a compressor than can put
out 150psi (a lot of them stop at 125-135psi), you could shoot a large
number of brads before the tank pressure dropped below 70psi or so. If
your brad nailer will do the job at 70psi, you're all set. However, if
you're shooting long brads and/or shooting into hardwoods, it will take
more pressure and you'll drain the tank more quickly.

  #3   Report Post  
Lee K
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?


"Jay Chan" wrote in message
m...
I want to know if a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor is powerful
enough to fill a 5-gal air tank with enough pressure. I intend to use
the air-tank to power a brad gun (or a pinner) to shoot brads (let say
20 brads a day).

Because my garage workshop is near the property line, I want to keep
the noise down when I am doing woodworking. One of the thing that I
want to purchase is a brad gun. But my understanding is that those
cheap/small air compressor (oil-less and direct-drive) are very noisy,
and the relatively quiet air compressor (oil-lubed and belt-driven)
are expensive and big. I want to be able to (1) keep the noise down in
the workshop, (2) limit the space requirement, (3) reduce cost.


Can you keep the air compressor in a corner in your workshop and build a
frame around it, then insulate it heavily to suppress the noise? Set it on
a rubber mat for additional noise suppression.


  #4   Report Post  
Mike in Mystic
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I have one of those pancake compressors that came as part of a
nailer/compressor combo kit (Porter-Cable). Admittedly, the compressor is
pretty loud when running and it IS annoying, but for the amount of nailing I
do at one time, which sounds similar to you, the thing rarely has to
recharge while I'm there. I usually let the air out when I'm done and drain
the condensation, but the less than 5 minutes of noise it gives me when I
plug it back in isn't that bad. So, I'm basically telling you to just use
the pancake compressor itself because at your usage needs it won't be that
big a deal.

Mike

"Jay Chan" wrote in message
m...
I want to know if a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor is powerful
enough to fill a 5-gal air tank with enough pressure. I intend to use
the air-tank to power a brad gun (or a pinner) to shoot brads (let say
20 brads a day).

Because my garage workshop is near the property line, I want to keep
the noise down when I am doing woodworking. One of the thing that I
want to purchase is a brad gun. But my understanding is that those
cheap/small air compressor (oil-less and direct-drive) are very noisy,
and the relatively quiet air compressor (oil-lubed and belt-driven)
are expensive and big. I want to be able to (1) keep the noise down in
the workshop, (2) limit the space requirement, (3) reduce cost.

One way to do this is to use an air tank that I can fill it up in gas
station. But according to messages that I come across in this
newsgroup, I get an impression that this will not work because the air
pump in a gas station cannot fill the air tank with enough pressure,
and the pressure in air tank will drop to unusable level after
shooting a small number of nails.

Another way to do this is to place a small/cheap air compressor in the
basement, and run a long air hose to the garage workshop. But this is
impractical for me because I don't want to keep the door or the window
open to let the air hose out, and I don't want to go through the
trouble of adding an air hose connector outside my house.

I am thinking of buying a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor, leaving
it in a corner of my basement, and using it to fill a 5-gal air tank.
Then, I can bring the air tank to the shop to shoot brads. I "think"
the noise from the pan-cake air compressor should not be a problem if
I leave it in the basement. One more benefit is that the air
compressor will not use the very limited power supply available in my
garage. Another benefit is that I can get the air tank first, try to
fill it in a local gas station and see how many brads I can get from
it before I buy the pan-cake air compressor.

Does my plan make sense? Will this work? Any down side that I may have
overlooked?

Thanks in advance for any comment.

Jay Chan



  #5   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?


"Jay Chan" wrote in message



I am thinking of buying a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor, leaving
it in a corner of my basement, and using it to fill a 5-gal air tank.
Then, I can bring the air tank to the shop to shoot brads. I "think"
the noise from the pan-cake air compressor should not be a problem if
I leave it in the basement. One more benefit is that the air
compressor will not use the very limited power supply available in my
garage. Another benefit is that I can get the air tank first, try to
fill it in a local gas station and see how many brads I can get from
it before I buy the pan-cake air compressor.

Does my plan make sense? Will this work? Any down side that I may have
overlooked?


Probably overkill but would work. Worst case scenario is to use the
compressor as is. If you plan to work late at night, run the pressure up on
a tank in addition to the compressor and you are good for a couple hundred
brads. I often use the compressor and forget it is even on as it will not
run again during my work session. My wife reminds me when she hears it a
few day later.

If you go with the tank, look for a gas station that allows you to pump a
higher pressure than available for cars. Most seem to be limited to about
35 pounds these day.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome




  #6   Report Post  
john moorhead
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I think that a small compresser should easily fill up a portable air tank.
I have just the arrangement in my shop and can easily get 20 or 30 brads per
fill, depending on how long the brads are and what I'm shooting them into.
If you are looking at getting a small pancake compressor, I would strongly
recommend an oil type, rather than oil free. I fill my tank up to a bit
over 100 psi and I can drive brads until the pressure gets down to about 45
psi.

Harbor Freight, K mart, KRagen and the like have the cheapos.... I got a
fine one, oil lubed, at HF for $90..., depending on your use/needs/budget
that might work or you might want to go with a Senco or DW.... I think Senco
has a pretty good package for about 150 or 200...

YMMV, other will post their opinions as well... Good luck....


John Moorhead
Lakeport, CA


PS:: Here's the link for the compressor that I got at HF.... I think it has
gotten pretty good reviews here on the NG (for HF stuff, that is...) One of
the few diamonds in the rough...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38898


  #7   Report Post  
Mark
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a BradGun?

I have a Delta CP200 that was thrown in for free as incentive to buy a
Unisaw instead of Jet at a WW show. Free is good!!! It's 2 gallons, oil
free, and VERY quiet. Nice form factor (why can't we just say size
anymore), so compact that it sits on a shelf covering the Unisaw mobile
base. Haven't tried it to shoot brads yet, so far it's used just for
blowing chips, teasing the dogs, G etc. But powering a nailer should
be no problem. When it runs in the basement, it isn't heard upstairs.
Mark

Jay Chan wrote:
I want to know if a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor is powerful
enough to fill a 5-gal air tank with enough pressure. I intend to use
the air-tank to power a brad gun (or a pinner) to shoot brads (let say
20 brads a day).

Because my garage workshop is near the property line, I want to keep
the noise down when I am doing woodworking. One of the thing that I
want to purchase is a brad gun. But my understanding is that those
cheap/small air compressor (oil-less and direct-drive) are very noisy,
and the relatively quiet air compressor (oil-lubed and belt-driven)
are expensive and big. I want to be able to (1) keep the noise down in
the workshop, (2) limit the space requirement, (3) reduce cost.

One way to do this is to use an air tank that I can fill it up in gas
station. But according to messages that I come across in this
newsgroup, I get an impression that this will not work because the air
pump in a gas station cannot fill the air tank with enough pressure,
and the pressure in air tank will drop to unusable level after
shooting a small number of nails.

Another way to do this is to place a small/cheap air compressor in the
basement, and run a long air hose to the garage workshop. But this is
impractical for me because I don't want to keep the door or the window
open to let the air hose out, and I don't want to go through the
trouble of adding an air hose connector outside my house.

I am thinking of buying a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor, leaving
it in a corner of my basement, and using it to fill a 5-gal air tank.
Then, I can bring the air tank to the shop to shoot brads. I "think"
the noise from the pan-cake air compressor should not be a problem if
I leave it in the basement. One more benefit is that the air
compressor will not use the very limited power supply available in my
garage. Another benefit is that I can get the air tank first, try to
fill it in a local gas station and see how many brads I can get from
it before I buy the pan-cake air compressor.

Does my plan make sense? Will this work? Any down side that I may have
overlooked?

Thanks in advance for any comment.

Jay Chan


  #8   Report Post  
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:27:11 GMT, "Mike in Mystic"
wrote:

I have one of those pancake compressors that came as part of a
nailer/compressor combo kit (Porter-Cable). Admittedly, the compressor is
pretty loud when running and it IS annoying, but for the amount of nailing I
do at one time, which sounds similar to you, the thing rarely has to
recharge while I'm there. I usually let the air out when I'm done and drain
the condensation, but the less than 5 minutes of noise it gives me when I
plug it back in isn't that bad. So, I'm basically telling you to just use
the pancake compressor itself because at your usage needs it won't be that
big a deal.


I agree. I also have a 2HP, 6 gal PC compressor When running a brad
or finish nailer, it hardly runs at all.

Barry
  #9   Report Post  
lazarus
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

What you want to do can be done. Get a regulator for that tank and
fill 'er up as much as it'll take and regulate what comes out for the
nailer.

But why make all that effort? My pancake, while a little on the loud
side but doesn't run very often when shooting brads.

I commend your efforts to be a good neighbor and keep the noise down,
but what do you do about the other loud tools? A planer or router
makes a hell of a racket too.
  #10   Report Post  
Nick Bozovich
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I agree with these other guys - I just got the "El Cheapo" from Harbor
Freight - 2 hp, 5 gal - for $89. It's run my brad nailer just fine - maybe
it will run once during a 3 hr session. I maybe use 5 - 10 brads, and blow
off my machines at the end, before I vacuum.

Why mess with a tank - have to keep it filled, forgot to fill it, have to go
to the station to have it filled....? This cheapo seems to work fine for
the hobby ww'r.

Nick B


"Jay Chan" wrote in message
m...
I want to know if a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor is powerful
enough to fill a 5-gal air tank with enough pressure. I intend to use
the air-tank to power a brad gun (or a pinner) to shoot brads (let say
20 brads a day).

Because my garage workshop is near the property line, I want to keep
the noise down when I am doing woodworking. One of the thing that I
want to purchase is a brad gun. But my understanding is that those
cheap/small air compressor (oil-less and direct-drive) are very noisy,
and the relatively quiet air compressor (oil-lubed and belt-driven)
are expensive and big. I want to be able to (1) keep the noise down in
the workshop, (2) limit the space requirement, (3) reduce cost.

One way to do this is to use an air tank that I can fill it up in gas
station. But according to messages that I come across in this
newsgroup, I get an impression that this will not work because the air
pump in a gas station cannot fill the air tank with enough pressure,
and the pressure in air tank will drop to unusable level after
shooting a small number of nails.

Another way to do this is to place a small/cheap air compressor in the
basement, and run a long air hose to the garage workshop. But this is
impractical for me because I don't want to keep the door or the window
open to let the air hose out, and I don't want to go through the
trouble of adding an air hose connector outside my house.

I am thinking of buying a small/cheap pan-cake air compressor, leaving
it in a corner of my basement, and using it to fill a 5-gal air tank.
Then, I can bring the air tank to the shop to shoot brads. I "think"
the noise from the pan-cake air compressor should not be a problem if
I leave it in the basement. One more benefit is that the air
compressor will not use the very limited power supply available in my
garage. Another benefit is that I can get the air tank first, try to
fill it in a local gas station and see how many brads I can get from
it before I buy the pan-cake air compressor.

Does my plan make sense? Will this work? Any down side that I may have
overlooked?

Thanks in advance for any comment.

Jay Chan





  #11   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Thanks for all the great advices that people have shared with me here.

I think I will take the advices and purchase the small air compressor
alone without using the air tank for these reasons. Then I can run it
in my basement to fill up its built-in air tank, and bring it to the
workshop.

As suggested by a couple newsgroup members here, I should be able to
shoot all the nails without getting the air compressor to re-start
because I don't shoot that many nails anyway. This means noise will
not be an issue.

The small oil-lubed pan-cake air compressor from HF that another
newsgroup member has suggested looks quite good, and the price is
right. After saying this, I may get a small oil-lubed direct-drive
2-gal single-hot-dog air compressor because it looks lighter than the
pan-cake version.

Thanks again for all the good advices.

Jay Chan
  #12   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I have a Delta CP200 that was thrown in for free as incentive to buy a
Unisaw instead of Jet at a WW show. Free is good!!! It's 2 gallons, oil
free, and VERY quiet. Nice form factor (why can't we just say size
anymore), so compact that it sits on a shelf covering the Unisaw mobile
base. Haven't tried it to shoot brads yet, so far it's used just for
blowing chips, teasing the dogs, G etc. But powering a nailer should
be no problem. When it runs in the basement, it isn't heard upstairs.


I am interested to learn more about your small compressor. I have
checked its spec in this web site:
http://www.pucketttools.com/decp2gahoair.html
Its spec is:
Motor 120V 60 Hz.
Tank Size 2 gallon
Maximum Pressure 100 psi
Inflation
• Car/Bike Tire - 100 seconds (depending on size)
• Raft/Mattress - 135 seconds (depending on size)
Blowing
• Can be used to clean or prepare work surface
on a continuous basis.
Fastening
• 90 Brad nails (before recovery is needed)
• 90 Staples (before recovery is needed)
• 23 Finish Nails (before recovery is needed)
Air Brush
• Can be used to spray paint for 300 continuous seconds.
Weight 23 lbs.

Its spec looks very good. Actually, I am eyeing on one that has a very
similar spec from Craftman. The only major exception is that it is
oil-lubed. I have another message thread going on about this type of
small air compressor.

My questions a
- The picture doesn't show a handle bar. How do
you carry it? Do you need to kind of hugging it
with both hands.
- You said you use it to blow chip from surface.
Will it run out of air very quickly when you use
it to blow air? I assume the motor needs to run
continuously in order to accomplish this.
Otherwise, it will drain all the air from the air
tank. Not a problem. I just want to learn more.

Thanks for any additional info in advance.

Jay Chan
  #13   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?


"Jay Chan" wrote in message
I am interested to learn more about your small compressor. I have
checked its spec in this web site:

My questions a
- The picture doesn't show a handle bar. How do
you carry it? Do you need to kind of hugging it
with both hands.


I h ave PC. The "handle" is part of the housing. Well balanced and easy
to carry. This is probably similar in that the housing or top shroud is the
handle.


- You said you use it to blow chip from surface.
Will it run out of air very quickly when you use
it to blow air? I assume the motor needs to run
continuously in order to accomplish this.


I use a blow gun with small tip. I can blow off a couple of parts before it
kicks in. It is adequate for cleaning the dust off a few parts, it is not
going to clean your garage like a leaf blower. YMWV depending on the orfice
size and and durationof cleaning.


Otherwise, it will drain all the air from the air
tank. Not a problem. I just want to learn more.


When the pressure gets down to about 40 pounds, it is not as effective.
They you wait for it to recoup a few minutes. Use some common sense.
Clearing chips at the drill press is far different that trying to clean the
garage floor.

I use mine to blow off parts before finishing. I do it outdoors and it is
very effective getting rid of sanding dust. I don't do it in the shop as it
would probably stir up more dust that will take time to settle and I'd have
to breath in.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome


  #14   Report Post  
Lawrence Wasserman
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I can usually fire a full strip of 18 ga. brads from a fully
pressurized (125 psi) 5 gallon tank. The pancake compressor or any
compressor will fill the tank just fine, the only difference would be
in how long it takes to do so. When filling at a service station, they
may have the pressure at the hose available to customers for filling
tires regulated to lower than the maximum available.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland


  #15   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I have the small compressor that Senco sells with their brad FP18 brad gun.
Its perfectly matched. The compressor hardly makes any noise at all. Its
sounds more like a mad butterfly. In fact, I could run out in the open in
my driveway and the neighbors still would not notice.

Now if you buy a much bigger direct drive oil-less compressor, those things
will rattle your teeth. I understand you can do an effective job enlosing
one to knock the sound down.

If I were you, I'd spend the dollars on the little Senco compressor rather
than an air tank. Their brad nailer is top notch.

Bob

"Jay Chan" wrote in message
m...

Because my garage workshop is near the property line, I want to keep
the noise down when I am doing woodworking. One of the thing that I
want to purchase is a brad gun. But my understanding is that those
cheap/small air compressor (oil-less and direct-drive) are very noisy,
and the relatively quiet air compressor (oil-lubed and belt-driven)
are expensive and big. I want to be able to (1) keep the noise down in
the workshop, (2) limit the space requirement, (3) reduce cost.





  #16   Report Post  
Mark
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a BradGun?

Everything Edwin said below pretty much applies to the PC200. It's a
great little auxiliary compressor. The handle is also molded plastic,
with the weight well balanced.

Jay Chan wrote:
I have a Delta CP200 that was thrown in for free as incentive to buy a
Unisaw instead of Jet at a WW show. Free is good!!! It's 2 gallons, oil
free, and VERY quiet. Nice form factor (why can't we just say size
anymore), so compact that it sits on a shelf covering the Unisaw mobile
base. Haven't tried it to shoot brads yet, so far it's used just for
blowing chips, teasing the dogs, G etc. But powering a nailer should
be no problem. When it runs in the basement, it isn't heard upstairs.



I am interested to learn more about your small compressor. I have
checked its spec in this web site:
http://www.pucketttools.com/decp2gahoair.html
Its spec is:
Motor 120V 60 Hz.
Tank Size 2 gallon
Maximum Pressure 100 psi
Inflation
• Car/Bike Tire - 100 seconds (depending on size)
• Raft/Mattress - 135 seconds (depending on size)
Blowing
• Can be used to clean or prepare work surface
on a continuous basis.
Fastening
• 90 Brad nails (before recovery is needed)
• 90 Staples (before recovery is needed)
• 23 Finish Nails (before recovery is needed)
Air Brush
• Can be used to spray paint for 300 continuous seconds.
Weight 23 lbs.

Its spec looks very good. Actually, I am eyeing on one that has a very
similar spec from Craftman. The only major exception is that it is
oil-lubed. I have another message thread going on about this type of
small air compressor.

My questions a
- The picture doesn't show a handle bar. How do
you carry it? Do you need to kind of hugging it
with both hands.
- You said you use it to blow chip from surface.
Will it run out of air very quickly when you use
it to blow air? I assume the motor needs to run
continuously in order to accomplish this.
Otherwise, it will drain all the air from the air
tank. Not a problem. I just want to learn more.

Thanks for any additional info in advance.

Jay Chan


  #17   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I h ave PC. The "handle" is part of the housing. Well balanced and easy
to carry. This is probably similar in that the housing or top shroud is the
handle.


Thanks for the explanation.

I use a blow gun with small tip. I can blow off a couple of parts before it
kicks in. It is adequate for cleaning the dust off a few parts, it is not
going to clean your garage like a leaf blower. YMWV depending on the orfice
size and and durationof cleaning.

When the pressure gets down to about 40 pounds, it is not as effective.
They you wait for it to recoup a few minutes. Use some common sense.
Clearing chips at the drill press is far different that trying to clean the
garage floor.


I mainly want to clean filter cartridges of a shop vac or a dust
collector. Because a filer cartridge has many folds. Cleaning all the
folds probably will take a lot of air. In order to get one that can
really clean all the folds in a filter cartridge, I will need a BIG
compressor will a LARGE air tank. This likely kills my budget. I
probably will have to do this cleaning without using an air compressor
(go back to do this manually). Or may be I should use a small
low-pressure compressor that doesn't need an air tank for cleaning
filter cartridge (instead of trying to get one air compressor to do
two different things). We don't want to use high pressure to blow dust
off a filter cartridge, right?

Seem like a small air compressor is all I should use -- for now.

Jay Chan
  #18   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?



"Jay Chan" wrote in message


I mainly want to clean filter cartridges of a shop vac or a dust
collector. Because a filer cartridge has many folds. Cleaning all the
folds probably will take a lot of air. In order to get one that can
really clean all the folds in a filter cartridge, I will need a BIG
compressor will a LARGE air tank. This likely kills my budget. I
probably will have to do this cleaning without using an air compressor
(go back to do this manually). Or may be I should use a small
low-pressure compressor that doesn't need an air tank for cleaning
filter cartridge (instead of trying to get one air compressor to do
two different things). We don't want to use high pressure to blow dust
off a filter cartridge, right?


You have two choices. Use the pancake compressor, but let the pressure come
back up once or twice to finish the job. Takes an extra 5 or so minutes.
Spend three times the $$$ and do it in one shot. Either way will get the
job done. Impatience can be costly.
Ed


  #19   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Jay Chan said:

I mainly want to clean filter cartridges of a shop vac or a dust
collector. Because a filer cartridge has many folds. Cleaning all the
folds probably will take a lot of air. In order to get one that can
really clean all the folds in a filter cartridge, I will need a BIG
compressor will a LARGE air tank. This likely kills my budget. I
probably will have to do this cleaning without using an air compressor
(go back to do this manually). Or may be I should use a small
low-pressure compressor that doesn't need an air tank for cleaning
filter cartridge (instead of trying to get one air compressor to do
two different things). We don't want to use high pressure to blow dust
off a filter cartridge, right?

Seem like a small air compressor is all I should use -- for now.


Any compressor without a tank that will move enough air to operate a
standard air nozzle is going to be pretty big.

Why don't you use a shop-vac with a washable filter to clean the Dust
Collector filter, and a small compressor top run your brad nailer?

A shop-vac in BLOW mode would probably work fine. Just blow the
filter outside - not indoors. Besides, too much air pressure from an
air nozzle may damage the filter material by blasting holes in it.


Greg G.
  #20   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

I have the small compressor that Senco sells with their brad FP18 brad gun.
Its perfectly matched. The compressor hardly makes any noise at all. Its
sounds more like a mad butterfly. In fact, I could run out in the open in
my driveway and the neighbors still would not notice.


Would you please give me the manufacturer name and model number of
that ultra quiet small air compressor, and where do you order it if
you don't mind.

My another alterative is Delta CP200. According to the spec, it is
described as having a quiet motor.

I have given up on the 1.5HP 2-gal Craftman single-hot-dog air
compressor because its spec doesn't say whether it is quiet or not (it
is oil-lubed direct drive). I assume that if it doesn't say so,
"quietness" may not be its selling point.

Thanks.

Jay Chan


  #21   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Jay Chan said:

My another alterative is Delta CP200. According to the spec, it is
described as having a quiet motor.

I have given up on the 1.5HP 2-gal Craftman single-hot-dog air
compressor because its spec doesn't say whether it is quiet or not (it
is oil-lubed direct drive). I assume that if it doesn't say so,
"quietness" may not be its selling point.


I wouldn't base any purchasing decision on whether the manufacturer
describes it as "quiet". Being a relative term, it means nothing -
quiet compared to what? A jet plane? Another compressor?

Unless they give a decibel reading, it's all meaningless.

Your best bet would be to go and look at them in person and decide for
yourself just how quiet they really are.

P.S. - Many manufacturers advertising material consists of lies and
half-truths.


Greg G.
  #22   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Jay Chan said:

My another alterative is Delta CP200. According to the spec, it is
described as having a quiet motor.


Another point I forgot to mention is that it isn't the *motor* that
makes most of the noise - it is the compressor itself. The air pump
doing it's job of moving air around rapidly. The intake and exhausts
of the compressor pump are where most of the noise comes from.

It sounds like you are looking for a vibrating diaphragm pump. They
are generally quieter than a piston pump. You could operate one of
these in an apartment and no one would notice. The problem is, they
are slow to generate much air pressure.

FWIW,

Greg G.
  #23   Report Post  
Roy Smith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Greg G. wrote:
P.S. - Many manufacturers advertising material consists of lies and
half-truths.


Those are the good ones. The bad ones leave out the half-truths.
  #24   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

The compressor is Senco branded. I don't know if its sold separately under a
different brand. Here's a link on the Woodcraft website

http://shop.woodcraft.com/Woodcraft/...9AD47F6F71F3C9

If that link fails, go to www.woodcraft.com and search for "Senco
compressor".

The compressor is the smallest compressor I have seen anywhere and I really
like the size. I can lift it with one hand. Just recently, I used the
nailer to tack down a bunch of floor sheathing in the attic. I could walk up
the attic stairway with nailer hooked on my belt and compressor in one hand.
When I was using it, I would put down a 4 foot wood strip for a guide and
pop the brads out at a rate of about 2/second. The little compressor
faithfully did its job. I would hate to have been doing this same job
lugging around the one of the other compressors I've seen (like the Porter
Cable model).

Woodcraft prices are pure retail. If I had been on my toes, I could have
purchased this combo at Lowe's for 10-20% off.

Bob


"Jay Chan" wrote in message
om...
I have the small compressor that Senco sells with their brad FP18 brad

gun.
Its perfectly matched. The compressor hardly makes any noise at all. Its
sounds more like a mad butterfly. In fact, I could run out in the open

in
my driveway and the neighbors still would not notice.


Would you please give me the manufacturer name and model number of
that ultra quiet small air compressor, and where do you order it if
you don't mind.

My another alterative is Delta CP200. According to the spec, it is
described as having a quiet motor.

I have given up on the 1.5HP 2-gal Craftman single-hot-dog air
compressor because its spec doesn't say whether it is quiet or not (it
is oil-lubed direct drive). I assume that if it doesn't say so,
"quietness" may not be its selling point.

Thanks.

Jay Chan



  #25   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

You have two choices. Use the pancake compressor, but let the pressure come
back up once or twice to finish the job. Takes an extra 5 or so minutes.
Spend three times the $$$ and do it in one shot. Either way will get the
job done. Impatience can be costly.


A regular pancake compressor has a 4-gal air tank. If I need extra 5
minutes for it to recover once or twice, this sounds OK for my
infrequent need of cleaning filter cartridge.

A single hot-dog compressor has a 2-gal air tank. This probably means
I need extra 10 minutes for it to recover. This is still OK.

An ulta small single hot-dog compressor has a 1-gal air tank. This
probably means I need extra 20 minutes for it to recover. This sounds
a bit long. If I go this way, I will need to see whether I have that
kind of patient. Oh well...

Thanks for the reference point.

Jay Chan


  #26   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Another point I forgot to mention is that it isn't the *motor* that
makes most of the noise - it is the compressor itself. The air pump
doing it's job of moving air around rapidly. The intake and exhausts
of the compressor pump are where most of the noise comes from.


Oh no... That Delta CP200 was at the top of my list. Now, I may need
to rethink... Thanks anyway.

Jay Chan
  #27   Report Post  
Greg G.
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Jay Chan said:

Oh no... That Delta CP200 was at the top of my list. Now, I may need
to rethink... Thanks anyway.


I'm not saying it isn't quiet, I'm just saying that 'quiet' is a
relative term. For all I know the CP200 absorbs noise from the room
it is operated in. g I don't have one - I use a loud and noisy 20
gallon Cambell Hausfield compressor.


Greg G.
  #28   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?


"Jay Chan" wrote in message
A regular pancake compressor has a 4-gal air tank. If I need extra 5
minutes for it to recover once or twice, this sounds OK for my
infrequent need of cleaning filter cartridge.

A single hot-dog compressor has a 2-gal air tank. This probably means
I need extra 10 minutes for it to recover. This is still OK.

An ulta small single hot-dog compressor has a 1-gal air tank. This
probably means I need extra 20 minutes for it to recover.


Sort of, but you are confusing tank size to the output of the compressor.
If you have a 5 gallon tank and a 5 cfm unit, it will take half as long as a
5 gallon tank with a 2.5 cfm compressor. The 5 gallons with a 5 cfm will
take the same time as a 2.5 gallon tank with 2.5 cfm, but th e tank will
pull down in half the time of use.

The time to refill is directly related to the compressor output. Bigger is
better, of course, but you also must look at cost effectiveness for your
use.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome


  #29   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Sort of, but you are confusing tank size to the output of the compressor.
If you have a 5 gallon tank and a 5 cfm unit, it will take half as long as a
5 gallon tank with a 2.5 cfm compressor. The 5 gallons with a 5 cfm will
take the same time as a 2.5 gallon tank with 2.5 cfm, but th e tank will
pull down in half the time of use.


Thanks for the correction. I look into the spec on the two small/quiet
single-hot-dog air compressors that I am interested (Delta CP200 and
Senco PC1010). They are both in the 0.35 cfm and 0.7 cfm range (both
at 90 psi). This sounds very low as compared to a regular pancake air
compressor (something like 2.7 cfm at 90 psi). This means that I will
have to spend an extra half hour or longer to wait for the small air
compressor to recover before I can finish blowing all the dust from a
filter cartridge. This pretty much means that neither of them are good
for blowing anything. This means I should use it strictly for nailers.

I probably need to use my shop vac in reverse to blow dusts off a
filter cartridge (yes, I will do this outdoor).

Thanks for the useful information.

Jay Chan
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Jay Chan
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

The compressor is Senco branded. I don't know if its sold separately under a
different brand.


I think I have found the combo kit that you are using. The compressor
model number is PC1010, and the model number of the combo kit is
PC0947. It is advertised as ultra quiet air compressor.

The compressor is the smallest compressor I have seen anywhere and I really
like the size. I can lift it with one hand. Just recently, I used the
nailer to tack down a bunch of floor sheathing in the attic. I could walk up
the attic stairway with nailer hooked on my belt and compressor in one hand.
When I was using it, I would put down a 4 foot wood strip for a guide and
pop the brads out at a rate of about 2/second. The little compressor
faithfully did its job. I would hate to have been doing this same job
lugging around the one of the other compressors I've seen (like the Porter
Cable model).


May I ask you two things about your Senco small and quiet air
compressor:

- Does it say whether it can support the use of a finish-nailer?
Review in Amazon.com said that it is not suitable for a finish-nailer.
I am not sure whether this means it is not suitable for a
finish-nailer PERIOD, or whether this means it is not suitable for
finish-nailer in a production environment instead of a DIY
environment.

- Does the operation instruction say anything about the possible uses
of this air compressor other than using it with a nailer?

This is always nice to talk with something who actually has the air
compressor that I am interested.

Thanks.

Jay Chan


  #31   Report Post  
Bob Davis
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

Jay, I tried to find information to answer your question but the
consumption specs are not available for Senco 15-16 ga nailers.

My guess is that the PC 1010 will operate it but will not keep up. It will
go up to 120 PSI, but only 0.7 scfm at 90 PSI. The consumption of my
Finish Pro 18 nailer is 0.84 scfm at 60 brads/second so it closely matches
the compressor. The Finish pro XL25, a heavy duty brad nailer is 1.9 scfm
at 90 PSI at a rate of 60 brads/minute. The larger nailers will surely
consume more. With only a 1 gallon tank, I think the PC1010 may be a
disappointment to operate the 15 or 16 ga nailers under anything but a few
nails per minute. The pump up time for the PC 1010 compressor is 128
seconds (0-120 PSI) and it will recover from 90-120 PSI in 35 seconds. My
guess is that you would have to limit the nailing rate for a larger nailer
to about 4-5 per minute.

Bob


"Jay Chan" wrote in message
om...
The compressor is Senco branded. I don't know if its sold separately

under a
different brand.


I think I have found the combo kit that you are using. The compressor
model number is PC1010, and the model number of the combo kit is
PC0947. It is advertised as ultra quiet air compressor.

The compressor is the smallest compressor I have seen anywhere and I

really
like the size. I can lift it with one hand. Just recently, I used the
nailer to tack down a bunch of floor sheathing in the attic. I could

walk up
the attic stairway with nailer hooked on my belt and compressor in one

hand.
When I was using it, I would put down a 4 foot wood strip for a guide

and
pop the brads out at a rate of about 2/second. The little compressor
faithfully did its job. I would hate to have been doing this same job
lugging around the one of the other compressors I've seen (like the

Porter
Cable model).


May I ask you two things about your Senco small and quiet air
compressor:

- Does it say whether it can support the use of a finish-nailer?
Review in Amazon.com said that it is not suitable for a finish-nailer.
I am not sure whether this means it is not suitable for a
finish-nailer PERIOD, or whether this means it is not suitable for
finish-nailer in a production environment instead of a DIY
environment.

- Does the operation instruction say anything about the possible uses
of this air compressor other than using it with a nailer?

This is always nice to talk with something who actually has the air
compressor that I am interested.

Thanks.

Jay Chan



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Jay Chan
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

The pump up time for the PC 1010 compressor is 128
seconds (0-120 PSI) and it will recover from 90-120 PSI in 35 seconds. My
guess is that you would have to limit the nailing rate for a larger nailer
to about 4-5 per minute.


Thanks for giving me your assessment of how the small air compressor
matching a finish nailer.

Actually, 4-5 finish nails a minute is more than enough for me. I am
not a "fast-moving" woodworker. I like to do thing slowly. I will
order a Senco ultra quiet air compressor nailer combo right after
posting this message. Thanks for recommending this combo kit to me. I
will first use it to nail baseboard trimming in my basement project.

This also means that please don't tell me there is a much better one
else where.

Jay Chan
  #33   Report Post  
Jay Chan
 
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Default Can Pan Cake Air Compressor Refill a 5-gal Air Tank for a Brad Gun?

My guess is that the PC 1010 will operate it but will not keep up. It will
go up to 120 PSI, but only 0.7 scfm at 90 PSI. The consumption of my
Finish Pro 18 nailer is 0.84 scfm at 60 brads/second so it closely matches
the compressor. The Finish pro XL25, a heavy duty brad nailer is 1.9 scfm
at 90 PSI at a rate of 60 brads/minute. The larger nailers will surely
consume more. With only a 1 gallon tank, I think the PC1010 may be a
disappointment to operate the 15 or 16 ga nailers under anything but a few
nails per minute. The pump up time for the PC 1010 compressor is 128
seconds (0-120 PSI) and it will recover from 90-120 PSI in 35 seconds. My
guess is that you would have to limit the nailing rate for a larger nailer
to about 4-5 per minute.


I used the Senco ultra quiet compressor with a Senco finish nailer
(FP35) in this weekend. I found that the compressor will start kicking
in after I had shot five 15-gauge finish nails. Then, I still could
shoot the sixth nail without any problem. I didn't try to shoot the
seventh nail; I just waited 10 seconds to let the compressor to catch
up a bit before I shot any more nail.

This is of course not good enough for "production" use. But for DIYer
like me who tends to work slowly and tends to have down time between
shooting nails, it is good enough.

If I got a two-hot-dogs compressor, I (as a DIYer) probably would
never ever need to pause to wait for the compressor. But then I would
need to pay more and had to carry the heavy load around (it would be
heavy as comparing to the very light Senco ultra quiet compressor).
Therefore, I feel that I am much better off using the Senco ultra
quiet compressor.

Yes, it is quite quiet. I cannot hear it running in the basement when
I walked up to the first floor (and the floor is not well insulated
nor sound-proof).

By the way, it works perfectly fine with the bundled FP-18 brad
nailer. I don't remember hearing the compressor ever needs to kick in
when I used the brad nailer to shoot brads at quarter-round
shoe-molding around the entire basement wall. It might have kicked in
once. But this happens so infrequent that I cannot recall this ever
happens.

The bottom line is: It is cheap enough, quiet, very light, takes very
little room, great for brads, and OK for finish nails for DIY usage.

Thanks for the recommendation on that compressor/brad-nailer combo.

Jay Chan
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