In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

you'd need an adequate number of qualified staff to
check it all as it's built. With many councils, that would be an
unnecessary expense. Or something that could be privatized.

AIUI there *are* plenty of privatised building control inspectors so
that you can inform the council you will using one instead of requiring
their own services ...

Yes. But sometimes a jobsworth is the best bet. ;-)

--
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 11:55:55 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
On 24/06/2017 21:05, tabbypurr wrote:
On Saturday, 24 June 2017 20:55:47 UTC+1, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

First they exposed the foil surface to a 700 centigrade
source of heat (but no flame). The foil surface bubbled
but did not catch fire.

they they repeated the test exposing the cut surface
of the celotex core to the heat source.

It burst into flames *immediately*.

This was surprising, I always thought PIR just charred,
but that wasn't what I saw. Quite worrying.

Yes, that video clip was a real eye-opener. There'll be some worried
people in building control today.

I'm finding this all a bit odd. Surely anyone that knows anything about fire knows that no amount of
retardant stops plastics burning if sufficient external heat is applied,
and it's pretty obvious
that that's exactly what happens in a raging building fire. Ie any form
of plastic insulation
is going to go up if well flamed first. And thus the only sensible
insulation to use on a high rise
tower is anything non-combustible, ie it must be free of plastics.
PE or FR treated PE just don't cut it.

And that means rockwool slabs.

I think I read somewhere that 150 mm of celetex was being used.
This seems to be overkill, assuming that it tightly affixed to the
underlying concrete structure, which is practically impossible
because of the rough surface of the concrete, plus the corner
and intermediate columns that had a surface shape that rigid
board-style insulation is always going to be kludged.

SO it could well be that hot gases at 700+ centigrade shot up
both sides of the celotex boards.

Fibreglass or rockwool would be better on both those counts. OTOH it can trap water, so detailing matters.


NT

On Sunday, 25 June 2017 14:52:14 UTC+1, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Jim GM4DHJ wrote:

That was PPP what did you expect? .......

PFI?


Private Public Partnership ??????

**** poor practice?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Andy Burns wrote:
Dave Plowman wrote:

you'd need an adequate number of qualified staff to
check it all as it's built. With many councils, that would be an
unnecessary expense. Or something that could be privatized.

AIUI there *are* plenty of privatised building control inspectors so
that you can inform the council you will using one instead of requiring
their own services ...

Yes. But sometimes a jobsworth is the best bet. ;-)

in the near of Scotland the building Scotland act says you need to inform
building standards within seven days of the work starting date.... not seven
days before the work starts so you can do the job in six days and inform
them on the seventh of your start date and their is sod all the council can
do about that the way it is written ...... not a lot of people know that
......

En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

not in scotland .....


Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools
by the strength of the wind ..

Scottish building inspectors, eh. Too busy wrecking their livers with
whisky to do their jobs properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-report-slams-
firms-who-built-fault-ridden-scottish-schools

or http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

not in scotland .....


Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools
by the strength of the wind ..

Scottish building inspectors, eh. Too busy wrecking their livers with
whisky to do their jobs properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-report-slams-
firms-who-built-fault-ridden-scottish-schools

or http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo


Embras full of **** heads ......

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

not in scotland .....


Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools
by the strength of the wind ..

Scottish building inspectors, eh. Too busy wrecking their livers with
whisky to do their jobs properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-report-slams-
firms-who-built-fault-ridden-scottish-schools

or http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo

I wouldn't expect a poof to know what Hemochromatosis is ...probably too
busy worrying about catching Aids from beach volleyball partners
.........bona ........

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

not in scotland .....


Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools
by the strength of the wind ..

Scottish building inspectors, eh. Too busy wrecking their livers with
whisky to do their jobs properly.

Building inspectors went out in the 70's it is now "Building Standards
Surveyors" and some of us were MRICS ........

On 24/06/2017 16:20, Andrew wrote:
On 23/06/2017 09:23, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 23/06/17 09:09, Martin Brown wrote:
On 22/06/2017 22:48, Andrew wrote:
On 21/06/2017 10:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Te problem is inflammable decorative cladding applied over the
(fireproof) insulation

The insulation is not fireproof, it is fire resistant, but
even the technical notes say once the temperature exceeds
a certain value, then even the fire-resistant nature of
this type of celotex will be overwhelmed.

It will contribute to the available fuel load if there is enough hot
flame played on it

No, it wont.

Yes it DID !!. ITV news did a test at a proper test lab.

First they exposed the foil surface to a 700 centigrade
source of heat (but no flame). The foil surface bubbled
but did not catch fire.

they they repeated the test exposing the cut surface
of the celotex core to the heat source.

It burst into flames *immediately*.

That is scary. If it was the right grade for that purpose it wouldn't do
that - I think they need to analyse these foam samples to see which fire
retardant chemistry (if any) has been used. Burning them just shows a
fail and as of last night they had seen 100% failure rate of both foams
and plastic core cladding. How did the fire safety standards get so bad?

This was surprising, I always thought PIR just charred,
but that wasn't what I saw. Quite worrying.

There are multiple sorts about. I think the one most commonly on sale to
DIY users is a variant of FR5000 - the properly fire retardant one.

The wisdom apparently has been that provided it is a block between foil
to prevent access to oxygen it doesn't need to be very fire suppressed.
And to be fair if it is installed as cavity insulation in between two
fundamentally inert brick/breezeblock wall skins that is about true.

But install that same material against concrete with a cheap thin and
also flammable rain cladding on the outside and all bets are off.

Making it 60m high also allows it to make its own updraft and things
will always burn a lot better when there is forced air ventilation.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article ,
Martin Brown wrote:
Making it 60m high also allows it to make its own updraft and things
will always burn a lot better when there is forced air ventilation.

Which is why some other countries allow its use on building up to a
certain height. Looks to be something like 3 stories.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/06/2017 08:14, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

at least building standards surveyors do a responsible job that affects the
health and safety of people

You didn't do your "responsible job" very well when you worked in
Scottish building control, did you?

http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo

"An investigation into the emergency closure of 17 schools in Edinburgh
built under private finance initiative arrangements has revealed a
series of other potentially fatal safety defects at PFI schools"

"Prof John Cole, a construction industry expert, said brick walls at
four other schools in Scotland fell down in high winds in very similar
circumstances to the collapse of an external wall at Oxgangs primary
school in Edinburgh in January 2016"

"In his 250-page report to the council, Cole said the subsequent safety
inspections of those schools revealed the builders had failed to make
them fire safe by leaving gaps and unsealed areas which could have
allowed a fire to spread unchecked"

Too busy wrecking your liver (which you got transplanted for free on the
NHS), eh?

Moron.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson
escribió:

Moron.

ps: tee hee

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) "Between two evils, I always pick
(")_(") the one I never tried before." - Mae West

On 26/06/2017 08:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

not in scotland .....


Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools
by the strength of the wind ..

Scottish building inspectors, eh. Too busy wrecking their livers with
whisky to do their jobs properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-report-slams-
firms-who-built-fault-ridden-scottish-schools

or http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo

I wouldn't expect a poof to know what Hemochromatosis is ...probably too
busy worrying about catching Aids from beach volleyball partners
........bona ........


? Too much Irnbru ?

Haemochromatosis is an inherited condition in which iron levels in the
//
body slowly build up over many years.

This build-up of iron, known as iron overload, can cause unpleasant
symptoms. If it isn't treated, this can damage parts of the body such as
the liver, joints, pancreas and heart.

Haemochromatosis most often affects people of white north European
background, and is particularly common in countries where lots of people
have a Celtic background, such as Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

"Andrew" wrote in message
news
On 26/06/2017 08:19, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Andrew Andrew97d-
escribió:

not in scotland .....


Where entire outer leafs of brickwork were ripped off schools
by the strength of the wind ..

Scottish building inspectors, eh. Too busy wrecking their livers with
whisky to do their jobs properly.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-report-slams-
firms-who-built-fault-ridden-scottish-schools

or http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo

I wouldn't expect a poof to know what Hemochromatosis is ...probably too
busy worrying about catching Aids from beach volleyball partners
........bona ........


? Too much Irnbru ?

Haemochromatosis is an inherited condition in which iron levels in the
//
body slowly build up over many years.

This build-up of iron, known as iron overload, can cause unpleasant
symptoms. If it isn't treated, this can damage parts of the body such as
the liver, joints, pancreas and heart.

Haemochromatosis most often affects people of white north European
background, and is particularly common in countries where lots of people
have a Celtic background, such as Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

good you now know...great thing google.....if tomlinkinson thinks all Scots
are alkies I think he is a poofter.....

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...


On 25/06/2017 08:14, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

at least building standards surveyors do a responsible job that affects
the
health and safety of people

You didn't do your "responsible job" very well when you worked in
Scottish building control, did you?

http://tinyurl.com/htoklgo

"An investigation into the emergency closure of 17 schools in Edinburgh
built under private finance initiative arrangements has revealed a
series of other potentially fatal safety defects at PFI schools"

"Prof John Cole, a construction industry expert, said brick walls at
four other schools in Scotland fell down in high winds in very similar
circumstances to the collapse of an external wall at Oxgangs primary
school in Edinburgh in January 2016"

"In his 250-page report to the council, Cole said the subsequent safety
inspections of those schools revealed the builders had failed to make
them fire safe by leaving gaps and unsealed areas which could have
allowed a fire to spread unchecked"

Too busy wrecking your liver (which you got transplanted for free on the
NHS), eh?

Moron.

look **** face no school to my knowledge in Renfrewshire (not east
Renfrewshire) had a problem like that.......and I was never a drinker I'm
sure you being an IT fanny can gain access to my medical records and check
for youself .......but why bother you and your buddies cole and reay can
just spread rumours .......p.s. you know **** all about building......

"Mike Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
En el artículo , Mike Tomlinson
escribió:

Moron.

ps: tee hee

p.s. **** off

In message , at 13:59:15 on Mon, 26 Jun
2017, Andrew remarked:

Haemochromatosis is an inherited condition in which iron levels in the
//
body slowly build up over many years.

This build-up of iron, known as iron overload, can cause unpleasant
symptoms. If it isn't treated, this can damage parts of the body such
as the liver, joints, pancreas and heart.

And there's a specific genetic test for it now, so diagnosis isn't
hit-or-miss.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:59:15 on Mon, 26 Jun 2017,
Andrew remarked:

Haemochromatosis is an inherited condition in which iron levels in the
//
body slowly build up over many years.

This build-up of iron, known as iron overload, can cause unpleasant
symptoms. If it isn't treated, this can damage parts of the body such as
the liver, joints, pancreas and heart.

And there's a specific genetic test for it now, so diagnosis isn't
hit-or-miss.

well I didn't know I had it until they tested my liver when they removed it
..... just my luck...got all my family tested though

Too busy wrecking your liver (which you got transplanted for free on the
NHS), eh?

Moron.

look **** face no school to my knowledge in Renfrewshire (not east
Renfrewshire) had a problem like that.......and I was never a drinker I'm
sure you being an IT fanny can gain access to my medical records and check
for youself .......but why bother you and your buddies cole and reay can
just spread rumours .......p.s. you know **** all about building......
tee hee ...