Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where
just using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:28:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where just
using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Can't help there, but have you looked here?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...=bathroom+door
+handles


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Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:28:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where just
using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Can't help there, but have you looked here?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...=bathroom+door
+handles



I doubt it's the handle that's failed, it'll be the lock mechanism.

I would just take the handle and spindle off and whip out the lock
mechanism. It's a bit pointless speculating about what *might* be wrong
when a minute's work with a screw driver will reveal what actually has gone
wrong.

Any decent ironmonger should be able to supply a new lock mech if required,

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

It depends. Looking at the edge of the door will tell you. Mine has two
independent tongues, one for the lock and one for the handle set. These
never seem to fail, however the ones that push a little projection into the
side of the handle set tongue to jam it tend to either wear out or just get
stuck so they never quite engage fully and a bit of rattling on the main
handle allows release.
Brian

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"T i m" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where
just using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:15:00 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:28:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where
just using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Can't help there, but have you looked here?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...=bathroom+door
+handles



I doubt it's the handle that's failed, it'll be the lock mechanism.

I would just take the handle and spindle off and whip out the lock
mechanism. It's a bit pointless speculating about what *might* be wrong
when a minute's work with a screw driver will reveal what actually has
gone wrong.

Any decent ironmonger should be able to supply a new lock mech if
required,

I've never seen separate lock mechanisms available for the kind of simple
turnbutton system, integrated with the handle, that was described by the
OP.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

T i m wrote:
Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where
just using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Cheers, T i m


My experience with these is not good. Some have diecast parts which
wear out, others are pressed steel which bends or wears away. Take the
thing apart and look, there's no easy way. You can sometimes fabricate a
new steel plate, but it's tricky to get the correct hardness.

On 15 Jun 2017 00:53:12 GMT, Bob Eager wrote:

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:28:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where just
using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Can't help there, but have you looked here?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...=bathroom+door
+handles

No I hadn't Bob but I have now thanks and this looks the nearest I
can see on there, at least for general design (straight rectangular)
and scale (locking knob right near the bottom and generally short
body):

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/aglio-victorian-handle-door-kit-short-latch-bathroom-set-satin-chrome-664682

The handle looks more like the shape of the one he

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/carlisle-brass-450-door-handle-bathroom-set-polished-chrome-519663

The nearest lock knob I can see is this one:

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/product/altro-19mm-return-to-door-handle-bathroom-set-57mm-centres-satin-stainless-steel-904831

But the parallel bit is shorter on hers.

I think it may be satin chrome.

So, there is obviously some sort of detent around the lock part
(possibly only in the inner panel?) that is supposed to stop the
handle moving when in lock knob is in the locked position and that may
have broken or worn short / away. Because I believe they have tried
to find a replacement (and so far failed) I was wondering if it is
something that could be (in the spirit of d-i-y) be repaired somehow?

Maybe if there is a tang that has worn down I could buzz a bit of MIG
on it and re profile it (or some such)?

The only way I could know is knowing exactly how it worked and as yet
I don't ... and they aren't round the corner for me to quickly find
out for myself. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 08:09:30 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

It depends. Looking at the edge of the door will tell you. Mine has two
independent tongues, one for the lock and one for the handle set.

That sounds like a more robust solution.

These
never seem to fail,

Typical that they have the 'other one' then. ;-(

however the ones that push a little projection into the
side of the handle set tongue to jam it tend to either wear out or just get
stuck so they never quite engage fully

I think that's where they are with this one Brian.

and a bit of rattling on the main
handle allows release.

I don't know but I imagine they have had a rattle about but I will
check thanks.

Cheers, T i m

On 15/06/2017 07:15, Tim+ wrote:
Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:28:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where just
using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Can't help there, but have you looked here?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...=bathroom+door
+handles



I doubt it's the handle that's failed, it'll be the lock mechanism.

If its like mine, there is no lock mechanism. The latch is your
conventional tubular latch, and the locking component is entirely a
function of the handle. When locked it prevents the handle moving and
hence unlatching the door.

I would just take the handle and spindle off and whip out the lock
mechanism. It's a bit pointless speculating about what *might* be wrong
when a minute's work with a screw driver will reveal what actually has gone
wrong.

I had to mess about with one last week (basically the striker plate had
broken, and when replaced I found the door could not be opened! Turned
out the latch itself had worn internally such that it would no longer
fully retract). In the process of taking the locking handles off and
putting back on, I did get a spell where it failed to stay locked as you
describe. Turned out the locking knob inside the bathroom had gone back
in a different rotation, and it looks like there is an eccentricity in
its machining which needs to be in a certain orientation to work. Once
returned to its proper registration, it worked fine again.

Any decent ironmonger should be able to supply a new lock mech if required,

Tim



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
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\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:21:49 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

I had to mess about with one last week (basically the striker plate had
broken, and when replaced I found the door could not be opened!

Doh! ;-)

Turned
out the latch itself had worn internally such that it would no longer
fully retract).

Ok.

In the process of taking the locking handles off and
putting back on, I did get a spell where it failed to stay locked as you
describe. Turned out the locking knob inside the bathroom had gone back
in a different rotation, and it looks like there is an eccentricity in
its machining which needs to be in a certain orientation to work. Once
returned to its proper registration, it worked fine again.

Hmm, I *think* we can rule that out in this instance as I don't think
anything had been touched since the handle was fitted (but I'm
checking).

I think her Dad has tried to get a new handle / lock but it wasn't the
exact same model (and more importantly fit) and they got a new lock
spindle (?) but it was too long and someone else had to cut it down
for them ... so now it's ended up with me. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 15/06/2017 11:41, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 11:21:49 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

I had to mess about with one last week (basically the striker plate had
broken, and when replaced I found the door could not be opened!

Doh! ;-)

Turned
out the latch itself had worn internally such that it would no longer
fully retract).

Ok.

In the process of taking the locking handles off and
putting back on, I did get a spell where it failed to stay locked as you
describe. Turned out the locking knob inside the bathroom had gone back
in a different rotation, and it looks like there is an eccentricity in
its machining which needs to be in a certain orientation to work. Once
returned to its proper registration, it worked fine again.

Hmm, I *think* we can rule that out in this instance as I don't think
anything had been touched since the handle was fitted (but I'm
checking).

They may simply have worn too much (much as my latch had).

I think her Dad has tried to get a new handle / lock but it wasn't the
exact same model (and more importantly fit) and they got a new lock
spindle (?) but it was too long and someone else had to cut it down
for them ... so now it's ended up with me. ;-)

When fiddling with mine I had to change the tubular latch - and the new
one sat slightly deeper in the door and also needed a larger hole
(redrilled with a larger auger bit). The slight change in position also
meant I needed to drill a larger hole through the door for the handle
spindle, and move one of the handles over a few mm). So all in all that
10 min job to replace the broken striker plate took over an hour!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 12:17:31 +0100, John Rumm
wrote:

snip

Hmm, I *think* we can rule that out in this instance as I don't think
anything had been touched since the handle was fitted (but I'm
checking).

They may simply have worn too much (much as my latch had).

I have since found out the handle was fitted from new when the
downstairs toilet was created last December.

I think her Dad has tried to get a new handle / lock but it wasn't the
exact same model (and more importantly fit) and they got a new lock
spindle (?) but it was too long and someone else had to cut it down
for them ... so now it's ended up with me. ;-)

When fiddling with mine I had to change the tubular latch - and the new
one sat slightly deeper in the door and also needed a larger hole
(redrilled with a larger auger bit).

Great ... ;-(

The slight change in position also
meant I needed to drill a larger hole through the door for the handle
spindle, and move one of the handles over a few mm).

Donch'a love this sort of thing. We should join the EU and get this
sort of thing standardised (after all, who GAF what it looks like as
long as it works ...). ;-)

So all in all that
10 min job to replace the broken striker plate took over an hour!

And with all the right tools, skills and processes ... which is what
always bothers me about going (some distance) away from my modest set
of tools to do this sort of thing.

I think I'll get her to bring to door over to me ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 09:54:33 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

My experience with these is not good.

Ok.

Some have diecast parts which
wear out, others are pressed steel which bends or wears away.

You would expect something like a 'door handle'
to last at least 6 years not 6 months!

Take the
thing apart and look, there's no easy way.

Unfortunately the door is a good few
miles away from me so not something I can look at without a fair
drive.

You can sometimes fabricate a
new steel plate,

That was what I was wondering
.... or to reinforce the existing plate with one of the liquid metal
epoxy's etc?

but it's tricky to get the correct hardness.

I'll take you word
for that. ;-)

Cheers, T i m ;-)

T i m wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 09:54:33 +0100, Capitol wrote:

snip

My experience with these is not good.

Ok.

Some have diecast parts which
wear out, others are pressed steel which bends or wears away.

You would expect something like a 'door handle'
to last at least 6 years not 6 months!

Take the
thing apart and look, there's no easy way.

Unfortunately the door is a good few
miles away from me so not something I can look at without a fair
drive.

You can sometimes fabricate a
new steel plate,

That was what I was wondering
... or to reinforce the existing plate with one of the liquid metal
epoxy's etc?

but it's tricky to get the correct hardness.

I'll take you word
for that. ;-)

Cheers, T i m ;-)


I'm old!

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 06:15:00 +0000, Tim+ wrote:

Bob Eager wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 00:28:49 +0100, T i m wrote:

Hi all,

Niece apparently has a toilet door that has a brushed chrome combined
handle and rotary thumb lock-knob on the inside (with I think an
emergency slot on the outside) where the lock is supposed to stop the
handle moving and so opening the door when the room is occupied.

This did work as expected for a few years but has now failed, where
just using the handle to open the door (without unlocking it) easily
overpowers the lock mech so I'm guessing something has broken / worn
out?

They have tried to get a direct replacement but so far been unlucky so
as I've never worked on one of these before, can tell me how they
typically fail and if they can be fixed please?

Can't help there, but have you looked here?

https://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/...=bathroom+door
+handles



I doubt it's the handle that's failed, it'll be the lock mechanism.

I would just take the handle and spindle off and whip out the lock
mechanism. It's a bit pointless speculating about what *might* be wrong
when a minute's work with a screw driver will reveal what actually has
gone wrong.

Any decent ironmonger should be able to supply a new lock mech if
required,

I've never seen separate lock mechanisms available for the kind of simple
turnbutton system, integrated with the handle, that was described by the
OP.


Well obviously it depends on what kind of lock the OP has but without a
picture we're all just guessing.

Plenty of bathroom latches available on the net though for door plates with
a thumbturn latch.

E.g. (First google hit)...

https://www.todd-doors.co.uk/latch-a...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls