Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but I
don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute.. (

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be a
freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in the
bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious and
turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start with, but
no joy).

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote for a
replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be? It's a
pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's just
an unplug and replug job.

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there cheaper
alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean would the
council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?"

Abso wrote in message ...
Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but I
don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute.. (

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be a
freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in the
bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious and
turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start with, but
no joy).

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote for a
replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be? It's a
pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's just
an unplug and replug job.

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there cheaper
alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean would the
council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?"

new stats are relatively cheap from CPC. there a few generic types according
to the type of defrost system used by your fridge, whether or not you have
an icebox etc. virtually all types are less than a tenner plus vat. The
electrica connections are normally push fit and your will need to clip the
capilliary to the same place as the old one.

To stop the big freeze whilst you get a new stat, use a plug in timeswitch
set to run the fridge for say half an hour every hour and a half to 2 hours
extending the off time over night when the door will not be being opened.

Quite an easy job

Good Luck

Bob

Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but I
don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute.. (

Not a lot of people here do, but still have a go!

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be a
freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in the
bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious and
turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start with, but
no joy).

Knackered stat.

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote for a
replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be? It's a
pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

It'll be a generic stat, readily available at most good appliance
stores.

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's just
an unplug and replug job.

Pretty much. Usually 3-5 wires depending how it's wired. Just note
which wires are on which terminals, remove and reverse for refit.
Quite a few new generic fridge stats come with instructions for
inter-compatability.

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there cheaper
alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean would the
council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

Go to a proper appliance shop, we knock spots off comet. And sell
proper appliances as opposed to proline etc...
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 22:41:14 UTC, (Lurch) wrote:

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there cheaper
alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean would the
council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

Go to a proper appliance shop, we knock spots off comet. And sell
proper appliances as opposed to proline etc...

In East Kent, we buy them from a big barn...cheaper than Comet, better
range and free delivery! So, I agree...!

--
Bob Eager
begin by not using Outlook Express...

On 05/02/2004 at 22:30:09, Bob Minchin typed:


Abso wrote in message ...
Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but
I don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute..
(

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be
a freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in
the bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious
and turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start
with, but no joy).

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote
for a replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be?
It's a pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's
just an unplug and replug job.

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there
cheaper alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean
would the council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

snip

new stats are relatively cheap from CPC. there a few generic types
according to the type of defrost system used by your fridge, whether
or not you have an icebox etc. virtually all types are less than a
tenner plus vat. The electrica connections are normally push fit and
your will need to clip the capilliary to the same place as the old
one.

After adding VAT and handling to the CPC charge it's as cheap to go to
the local appliance spares shop in Slough, so I'll do that tomorrow.

To stop the big freeze whilst you get a new stat, use a plug in
timeswitch set to run the fridge for say half an hour every hour and
a half to 2 hours extending the off time over night when the door
will not be being opened.

That's a cracking idea. Done!

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

On 05/02/2004 at 22:41:14, Lurch typed:

Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but
I don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute..
(

Not a lot of people here do, but still have a go!

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be
a freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in
the bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious
and turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start
with, but no joy).

Knackered stat.

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote
for a replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be?
It's a pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

It'll be a generic stat, readily available at most good appliance
stores.

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's
just an unplug and replug job.

Pretty much. Usually 3-5 wires depending how it's wired. Just note
which wires are on which terminals, remove and reverse for refit.
Quite a few new generic fridge stats come with instructions for
inter-compatability.

Cool, thanks to all for their advice on this subject. The fitted stat
appears to be by Kema Keur but my friendly local appliance spares shop
only has a Ranco unit in stock, so I'll chance my arm on that.

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there
cheaper alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean
would the council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

Go to a proper appliance shop, we knock spots off comet. And sell
proper appliances as opposed to proline etc...

Unfortunately, like most people, I have an image of Comet & Currys
being much more competitive on white goods than the man on the high st.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I look to C&C first (plus they have
decent websites).

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"Do not attempt to use Australian slang, unless you are a trained
linguist and good in a fistfight." Douglas Adams.

On 06/02/2004 at 09:55:14, Huge typed:

"Abso" writes:

[9 lines snipped]

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote
for a replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be?
It's a pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

About #15 IIRC.


How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's
just an unplug and replug job.

Yep. Took me longer to go and get than to replace.

Cheers Huge.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?"

In article , Abso
writes
On 05/02/2004 at 22:41:14, Lurch typed:

Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but
I don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute..
(

Not a lot of people here do, but still have a go!

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be
a freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in
the bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious
and turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start
with, but no joy).

Knackered stat.

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote
for a replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be?
It's a pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

It'll be a generic stat, readily available at most good appliance
stores.

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's
just an unplug and replug job.

Pretty much. Usually 3-5 wires depending how it's wired. Just note
which wires are on which terminals, remove and reverse for refit.
Quite a few new generic fridge stats come with instructions for
inter-compatability.

Cool, thanks to all for their advice on this subject. The fitted stat
appears to be by Kema Keur but my friendly local appliance spares shop
only has a Ranco unit in stock, so I'll chance my arm on that.


KEMA Keur isn't a manufacturer. It's the approval mark from the Dutch
testing & approvals organisation, equivalent to the BEAB. KEMA - de NV
tot Keuring van Elektrotechnischer Materialen. So there. :-)

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there
cheaper alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean
would the council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

Go to a proper appliance shop, we knock spots off comet. And sell
proper appliances as opposed to proline etc...

Unfortunately, like most people, I have an image of Comet & Currys
being much more competitive on white goods than the man on the high st.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I look to C&C first (plus they have
decent websites).


--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

Abso wrote in message ...
On 05/02/2004 at 22:30:09, Bob Minchin typed:


Abso wrote in message ...
Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask, but
I don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to contribute..
(

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to be
a freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots stored in
the bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've done the obvious
and turned the dial down (not that it had been turned up to start
with, but no joy).

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote
for a replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to be?
It's a pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's
just an unplug and replug job.

A new fridge is looking like around 150 GBP from Comet and they also
want to charge me 15 quid to take my old one away.. Are there
cheaper alternatives? (No, not throwing it in a field, I mean
would the council maybe take it for less?). TIA..!

snip

new stats are relatively cheap from CPC. there a few generic types
according to the type of defrost system used by your fridge, whether
or not you have an icebox etc. virtually all types are less than a
tenner plus vat. The electrica connections are normally push fit and
your will need to clip the capilliary to the same place as the old
one.

After adding VAT and handling to the CPC charge it's as cheap to go to
the local appliance spares shop in Slough, so I'll do that tomorrow.

I find CPC sells so much useful stuff and generally good prices that I
rarely get away with an order under £30 which is then post free!

To stop the big freeze whilst you get a new stat, use a plug in
timeswitch set to run the fridge for say half an hour every hour and
a half to 2 hours extending the off time over night when the door
will not be being opened.

That's a cracking idea. Done!

Yup I was rather pleased with myself when I had a stat failure in a rented
hose in France and it came to me in a flash and saved having frozen white
wine and beer!

My French was not up to telling the landlord 'your fridge is buggered' and
in any case their concept of getting a repair done is normally getting round
to it when you have forgotten what needed doing!

Bob

On 07/02/2004 at 08:41:50, Peter Twydell typed:

In article , Abso
writes
On 05/02/2004 at 22:41:14, Lurch typed:

Hi all, sorry I only post here when I've got a question to ask,
but I don't know much about diy, so I don't have much to
contribute.. (

Not a lot of people here do, but still have a go!

Latest one is that my fridge seems to have a burning ambition to
be a freezer, ie. the motor runs continuously and my carrots
stored in the bottom drawer are looking mighty frozen. I've
done the obvious and turned the dial down (not that it had been
turned up to start with, but no joy).

Knackered stat.

IMHO this points to a duff thermostat so I'll be getting a quote
for a replacement, but does anyone know how much it's likely to
be? It's a pretty bog standard Zanussi Freezone (model ZFT56RL).

It'll be a generic stat, readily available at most good appliance
stores.

How easy is it to replace a thermostat, anyway? I'm hoping it's
just an unplug and replug job.

Pretty much. Usually 3-5 wires depending how it's wired. Just note
which wires are on which terminals, remove and reverse for refit.
Quite a few new generic fridge stats come with instructions for
inter-compatability.

Cool, thanks to all for their advice on this subject. The fitted
stat appears to be by Kema Keur but my friendly local appliance
spares shop only has a Ranco unit in stock, so I'll chance my arm
on that.


KEMA Keur isn't a manufacturer. It's the approval mark from the Dutch
testing & approvals organisation, equivalent to the BEAB. KEMA - de NV
tot Keuring van Elektrotechnischer Materialen. So there. :-)

Heh, I should tell the guy at the appliance spares shop. He agreed
with me that the Ranco stat I bought today would be an acceptable
substitute for one made by KEMA Keur!

Anyway, I've another question now I've bought this new stat. The side
of the box has the following info:

Cold out: -26 deg C
Constant in: +3.5 deg C
Warm out: -11 deg C

What's that all about? Obviously it's the specs for the thermal range
of the stat, but what is cold out, or warm out or constant in? It's a
Ranco K59 if that means anything to anyone. I've not yet tried fitting
it, so it's still fingers crossed time.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"The politics of fire, ice and snow."

Unfortunately, like most people, I have an image of Comet & Currys
being much more competitive on white goods than the man on the high st.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I look to C&C first (plus they have
decent websites).

I think that's what's called a misguided preconception. I can assure
you, like for like, they're not. They usually sell absolute crap for
next to nothing whereas your local independent will go for a better
quality as a base model, usually, so that's why the cheapest in the
shop isn't always the cheapest available. Also because of some of
Comet & Currys buying power they can buy 1 million pieces of crap for
next to nothing with a whacking profit, whereas the local independent
will only make a small profit on any item.
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

snip

Anyway, I've another question now I've bought this new stat. The side
of the box has the following info:

Cold out: -26 deg C
Constant in: +3.5 deg C
Warm out: -11 deg C

What's that all about? Obviously it's the specs for the thermal range
of the stat, but what is cold out, or warm out or constant in? It's a
Ranco K59 if that means anything to anyone. I've not yet tried fitting
it, so it's still fingers crossed time.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"The politics of fire, ice and snow."

I think this is a stat for a self defrosting fridge. These have to ensure
that the cooling panel in the fridge rises above freezing point to thaw out
the ice build up. The temperature control of the cabinet is achieved but
switching the compressor on at a constant temperature that is above
freezing - in this case +3.5 degrees. The variable control governs the
temperature of the panel at which the compressor switches off eg between -11
and -26 degrees.

Instead of the knob varying the temperature at the bulb tip, it varies the
hysteresis band.

In short, the self defrosting fridge only differs from a normal fridge in
the type of thermostat used.

Hope this helps

Bob

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:21 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:

Unfortunately, like most people, I have an image of Comet & Currys
being much more competitive on white goods than the man on the high st.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I look to C&C first (plus they have
decent websites).

I think that's what's called a misguided preconception. I can assure
you, like for like, they're not. They usually sell absolute crap for
next to nothing whereas your local independent will go for a better
quality as a base model, usually, so that's why the cheapest in the
shop isn't always the cheapest available. Also because of some of
Comet & Currys buying power they can buy 1 million pieces of crap for
next to nothing with a whacking profit, whereas the local independent
will only make a small profit on any item.
..

But what value does the small independent have compared with on-line
purchase where manufacturers are doing direct to customer delivery and
run their own service organisations?

For example, I recently bought a new Miele dishwasher. The order was
taken by an online site by credit card, after I had found the cheapest
price.

The machine arrived a few days later with delivery note from Miele.
The retailer certainly didn't touch the product. A good thing too,
because the more hands that touch something, the more the chance of
damage.

It comes with a 5 year warrranty. In the unlikely event that I will
need to use service, I call Miele's service number in Abingdon and
book a call, agreeing morning or afternoon. On the day before,
after 1800, I can call them and receive an automated estimate of when
the engineer will call. On the small number of occasions over the
last 20 years that I have had to use Miele's service they have always
sent good engineers who fix the issue quickly and efficiently.

Given all of that, why do I need a local independent retailer? I
don't see the value. A small retailer won't have the space to display
all the models, so it isn't as if I can go there and see before I buy.

I realise that the small retailers become members of buying
organisations which get them reasonable pricing but there are still
the overheads of the bricks and mortar.

Some years ago, I lived in a small village in north Wales. There was
a small shop of traditional design with door at the centre and a
display window each side. One half of the shop was an electrical
retailer and the other was a greengrocers. The same person ran both
pieces. When customers went in and went into the electrical part, the
old boy who ran it would take off his brown coat, go and wash his
hands and put on a white coat to come and serve them. Then he would
do the reverse. It was quite sweet really, and the pace of life was
such that waiting for a bit didn't matter. I went past there not
that long ago. The greengrocers is still there, I think run by an
Asian family and of course the electrical business has long gone.

I'm certainly no fan of the supermarket places that DSG operate, and
avoid going to them if I can, but I can't remember when I last went to
a small electrical retailer.




..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

But what value does the small independent have compared with on-line
purchase where manufacturers are doing direct to customer delivery and
run their own service organisations?

For example, I recently bought a new Miele dishwasher. The order was
taken by an online site by credit card, after I had found the cheapest
price.

The machine arrived a few days later with delivery note from Miele.
The retailer certainly didn't touch the product. A good thing too,
because the more hands that touch something, the more the chance of
damage.

It comes with a 5 year warrranty. In the unlikely event that I will
need to use service, I call Miele's service number in Abingdon and
book a call, agreeing morning or afternoon. On the day before,
after 1800, I can call them and receive an automated estimate of when
the engineer will call. On the small number of occasions over the
last 20 years that I have had to use Miele's service they have always
sent good engineers who fix the issue quickly and efficiently.

Given all of that, why do I need a local independent retailer? I
don't see the value. A small retailer won't have the space to display
all the models, so it isn't as if I can go there and see before I buy.

Maybe you or I could but not everyone knows enough about a particular
product, be it appliance, car or house, to go online and make their
own decisions about it. Not all people can get online. In our shop it
is in a quiet town, what you'd call 1 horse really, a lot of the
population are elderly or of agricultural persuasion and the nearest
Comet or Currys is about 15-20 miles away. Given all that not many of
the residents would be able to go online and certainly most of them
haven't a clue when it comes to what machine to buy. We still are a
lot cheaper than Comet and Currys and are always there for service,
usually within 2 days from calling to book an engineer.
Although I agree wholeheartedly with what you say it isn't really
catching on in Shropshire this internetty thingy wotsit!
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On 07/02/2004 at 19:45:57, Bob Minchin typed:

snip

Anyway, I've another question now I've bought this new stat. The
side of the box has the following info:

Cold out: -26 deg C
Constant in: +3.5 deg C
Warm out: -11 deg C

What's that all about? Obviously it's the specs for the thermal
range of the stat, but what is cold out, or warm out or constant
in? It's a Ranco K59 if that means anything to anyone. I've not
yet tried fitting it, so it's still fingers crossed time.

snip

I think this is a stat for a self defrosting fridge. These have to
ensure that the cooling panel in the fridge rises above freezing
point to thaw out the ice build up. The temperature control of the
cabinet is achieved but switching the compressor on at a constant
temperature that is above freezing - in this case +3.5 degrees. The
variable control governs the temperature of the panel at which the
compressor switches off eg between -11 and -26 degrees.

Instead of the knob varying the temperature at the bulb tip, it
varies the hysteresis band.

In short, the self defrosting fridge only differs from a normal
fridge in the type of thermostat used.

Cool, it finally makes sense. Thanks.

--
Abso [at] ukrm [dot] net - Ignore header email address

The uk.people.consumers.ebay FAQ is at upce.org.uk

"The superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid situations in
which he has to demonstrate his superior skill." Anonymous.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:16:42 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:



Maybe you or I could but not everyone knows enough about a particular
product, be it appliance, car or house, to go online and make their
own decisions about it. Not all people can get online. In our shop it
is in a quiet town, what you'd call 1 horse really, a lot of the
population are elderly or of agricultural persuasion and the nearest
Comet or Currys is about 15-20 miles away. Given all that not many of
the residents would be able to go online and certainly most of them
haven't a clue when it comes to what machine to buy.

That's interesting. In that kind of environment, I can imagine that
over time you can become a trusted pair of hands and people will
respond to that and buy from you, possibly even at a price premium.

There is a generation factor as you say. My parents are silver
surfers in every sense of the phrase and use email, web forums and
even e-banking (although it was a struggle convincing them that SSL
encryption is probably safer than the postman :-)

They recently wanted to buy a new TV and I helped them to look at
various ones before they settled on a Sony. There was a range of
prices, delivery conditions and warranties. In the end, they bought
on line from John Lewis - not the cheapest price, but they liked the
included extended warranty. They were even more pleased when the
thing arrived in a green John Lewis van from the local depot - somehow
this gave a sense of wellbeing. Of course the reality was that it
had arrived there the day before with a bulk load from Sony's
warehouse. Perception is important.


We still are a
lot cheaper than Comet and Currys and are always there for service,
usually within 2 days from calling to book an engineer.

Do you belong to one of the retail buying groups to do that?


Although I agree wholeheartedly with what you say it isn't really
catching on in Shropshire this internetty thingy wotsit!

Also interesting. I wonder if there is a regional effect. A couple
of years ago I bought various oak joinery, doors, staircase etc. from
a firm in Shrewsbury. Their sales person/surveyor had been a joiner
himself and periodically he would try to take one of the joiners from
the workshop to a customer to see the fruit of their labours and
generally how pleased the customers were. The guys would go, and
liked the customer appreciation, but were equally content to do a good
job and go home at 5.

I work in the networking industry, live in the Thames Valley and spend
a significant amount of my time travelling in the rest of Europe.
About the only time when I don't have internet connectivity is when
physically in an aircraft and even that is changing. Airport
lounges, hotels, motorway service areas,... have high speed wireless
LAN or other connections, most customers that I visit have facilities
for visitors to have internet access. Given that, if I can do
something on line more quickly and easily, then naturally I will do so
and spend time on other things.

However, thanks for pointing out that there are a lot of different
factors in a purchase, and it does remain true that people buy from
people.......





..

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:57:21 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:

Unfortunately, like most people, I have an image of Comet & Currys
being much more competitive on white goods than the man on the high st.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's why I look to C&C first (plus they have
decent websites).

I think that's what's called a misguided preconception. I can assure
you, like for like, they're not. They usually sell absolute crap for
next to nothing whereas your local independent will go for a better
quality as a base model, usually, so that's why the cheapest in the
shop isn't always the cheapest available. Also because of some of
Comet & Currys buying power they can buy 1 million pieces of crap for
next to nothing with a whacking profit, whereas the local independent
will only make a small profit on any item.
..

But what value does the small independent have compared with on-line
purchase where manufacturers are doing direct to customer delivery and
run their own service organisations?

For example, I recently bought a new Miele dishwasher. The order was
taken by an online site by credit card, after I had found the cheapest
price.

The machine arrived a few days later with delivery note from Miele.
The retailer certainly didn't touch the product. A good thing too,
because the more hands that touch something, the more the chance of
damage.

It comes with a 5 year warrranty. In the unlikely event that I will
need to use service, I call Miele's service number in Abingdon and
book a call,

And then take out a mortgage.

agreeing morning or afternoon. On the day before,
after 1800, I can call them and receive an automated estimate of when
the engineer will call. On the small number of occasions over the
last 20 years that I have had to use Miele's service they have always
sent good engineers who fix the issue quickly and efficiently.

Given all of that, why do I need a local independent retailer? I
don't see the value. A small retailer won't have the space to display
all the models, so it isn't as if I can go there and see before I buy.

I realise that the small retailers become members of buying
organisations which get them reasonable pricing but there are still
the overheads of the bricks and mortar.

Some years ago, I lived in a small village in north Wales. There was
a small shop of traditional design with door at the centre and a
display window each side. One half of the shop was an electrical
retailer and the other was a greengrocers. The same person ran both
pieces. When customers went in and went into the electrical part, the
old boy who ran it would take off his brown coat, go and wash his
hands and put on a white coat to come and serve them. Then he would
do the reverse. It was quite sweet really, and the pace of life was
such that waiting for a bit didn't matter. I went past there not
that long ago. The greengrocers is still there, I think run by an
Asian family and of course the electrical business has long gone.

I'm certainly no fan of the supermarket places that DSG operate, and
avoid going to them if I can, but I can't remember when I last went to
a small electrical retailer.




.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

That's interesting. In that kind of environment, I can imagine that
over time you can become a trusted pair of hands and people will
respond to that and buy from you, possibly even at a price premium.

Some people do come in and value our advice and just go with what we
say, others come in for a £10 kettle, and want free delivery and a
cash discount!

We still are a
lot cheaper than Comet and Currys and are always there for service,
usually within 2 days from calling to book an engineer.

Do you belong to one of the retail buying groups to do that?

No, we are still very much independent. We have started dealing a lot
with manufacturers directly to get better terms. We buy in bulk at
special rates where we can, we have a lot of storage space for doing
this. A lot of our appliances are graded, but because of our
longstanding past with the suppliers we tend to get the good ones, you
have to look quite hard to find the blemishes! We quite often look
around for end of line and various special offers from various
warehouses and get a good amount of decent goods that way.
All in all we look at what the customer will probably want, and try to
be there with what they want.

Although I agree wholeheartedly with what you say it isn't really
catching on in Shropshire this internetty thingy wotsit!

Also interesting. I wonder if there is a regional effect. A couple
of years ago I bought various oak joinery, doors, staircase etc. from
a firm in Shrewsbury. Their sales person/surveyor had been a joiner
himself and periodically he would try to take one of the joiners from
the workshop to a customer to see the fruit of their labours and
generally how pleased the customers were. The guys would go, and
liked the customer appreciation, but were equally content to do a good
job and go home at 5.

I work in the networking industry, live in the Thames Valley and spend
a significant amount of my time travelling in the rest of Europe.
About the only time when I don't have internet connectivity is when
physically in an aircraft and even that is changing. Airport
lounges, hotels, motorway service areas,... have high speed wireless
LAN or other connections, most customers that I visit have facilities
for visitors to have internet access. Given that, if I can do
something on line more quickly and easily, then naturally I will do so
and spend time on other things.

Obviously I've caught up with it, 'd make a pretty useless Director of
an IT\data\telecoms company if I hadn't! And being from Sheffield I'm
not quite as simple as quite a few of the local yokels so that helps.
I don't know how I'd manage without an ADSL line and GPRS now.
I don't think it's so much of a way of life yet out in the wilds, but
one day...
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:08:42 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


For example, I recently bought a new Miele dishwasher. The order was
taken by an online site by credit card, after I had found the cheapest
price.

The machine arrived a few days later with delivery note from Miele.
The retailer certainly didn't touch the product. A good thing too,
because the more hands that touch something, the more the chance of
damage.

It comes with a 5 year warrranty. In the unlikely event that I will
need to use service, I call Miele's service number in Abingdon and
book a call,

And then take out a mortgage.


For what?



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 22:04:14 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 21:08:42 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


For example, I recently bought a new Miele dishwasher. The order was
taken by an online site by credit card, after I had found the cheapest
price.

The machine arrived a few days later with delivery note from Miele.
The retailer certainly didn't touch the product. A good thing too,
because the more hands that touch something, the more the chance of
damage.

It comes with a 5 year warrranty. In the unlikely event that I will
need to use service, I call Miele's service number in Abingdon and
book a call,

And then take out a mortgage.


For what?

Don't encourage him!
...

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:31:18 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:

Don't encourage him!

He/she needs encouragement? My twit filter suggests otherwise.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 20:16:42 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:



Maybe you or I could but not everyone knows enough about a particular
product, be it appliance, car or house, to go online and make their
own decisions about it. Not all people can get online. In our shop it
is in a quiet town, what you'd call 1 horse really, a lot of the
population are elderly or of agricultural persuasion and the nearest
Comet or Currys is about 15-20 miles away. Given all that not many of
the residents would be able to go online and certainly most of them
haven't a clue when it comes to what machine to buy.

That's interesting. In that kind of environment, I can imagine that
over time you can become a trusted pair of hands and people will
respond to that and buy from you, possibly even at a price premium.

There is a generation factor as you say. My parents are silver
surfers in every sense of the phrase and use email, web forums and
even e-banking (although it was a struggle convincing them that SSL
encryption is probably safer than the postman :-)

They recently wanted to buy a new TV and I helped them to look at
various ones before they settled on a Sony. There was a range of
prices, delivery conditions and warranties. In the end, they bought
on line from John Lewis - not the cheapest price, but they liked the
included extended warranty. They were even more pleased when the
thing arrived in a green John Lewis van from the local depot - somehow
this gave a sense of wellbeing. Of course the reality was that it
had arrived there the day before with a bulk load from Sony's
warehouse. Perception is important.


We still are a
lot cheaper than Comet and Currys and are always there for service,
usually within 2 days from calling to book an engineer.

Do you belong to one of the retail buying groups to do that?


Although I agree wholeheartedly with what you say it isn't really
catching on in Shropshire this internetty thingy wotsit!

Also interesting. I wonder if there is a regional effect. A couple
of years ago I bought various oak joinery, doors, staircase etc. from
a firm in Shrewsbury. Their sales person/surveyor had been a joiner
himself and periodically he would try to take one of the joiners from
the workshop to a customer to see the fruit of their labours and
generally how pleased the customers were. The guys would go, and
liked the customer appreciation, but were equally content to do a good
job and go home at 5.

I work in the networking industry,

You don't know much about that either.

live in the Thames Valley

You said you lived in Sarf Landan. have you moved? Are are you porkie
telling?

and spend
a significant amount of my time travelling in the rest of Europe.
About the only time when I don't have internet connectivity is when
physically in an aircraft and even that is changing. Airport
lounges, hotels, motorway service areas,... have high speed wireless
LAN or other connections, most customers that I visit have facilities
for visitors to have internet access. Given that, if I can do
something on line more quickly and easily, then naturally I will do so
and spend time on other things.

However, thanks for pointing out that there are a lot of different
factors in a purchase, and it does remain true that people buy from
people.......





..

SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

.andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"PoP" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 23:31:18 GMT, (Lurch) wrote:

Don't encourage him!

He/she needs encouragement? My twit filter suggests otherwise.

Bracknell;? My God!

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:15:24 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message


I work in the networking industry,

You don't know much about that either.

You'd be surprised.


live in the Thames Valley

You said you lived in Sarf Landan. have you moved? Are are you porkie
telling?

Nope. I never have lived where you suggest. I think you have
confused yourself.



..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:13:47 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Nope. I never have lived where you suggest. I think you have
confused yourself.

Our IMM is suffering from early dementia I think. Just recently he was
adamant I lived in Basingstoke, which is a bit too far away for us to
have met to share a beer (with several others it has to be said).

Talking of beer......?

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 15:16:22 +0000, PoP wrote:

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 13:13:47 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Nope. I never have lived where you suggest. I think you have
confused yourself.

Our IMM is suffering from early dementia I think. Just recently he was
adamant I lived in Basingstoke, which is a bit too far away for us to
have met to share a beer (with several others it has to be said).

Talking of beer......?


You're right.

Shall I try and organise something for later this month?

For the last (first) one, did you need to contact the pub, or was it
just a case of show up?

Do we want a different venue?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

Talking of beer......?

You're right.

Shall I try and organise something for later this month?

For the last (first) one, did you need to contact the pub, or was it
just a case of show up?

Do we want a different venue?

There are no decent boozers in Basingstoke. It is an appalling place along
with Woking and Wokingham.

On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 17:01:12 -0000, "IMM" wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .

Talking of beer......?

You're right.

Shall I try and organise something for later this month?

For the last (first) one, did you need to contact the pub, or was it
just a case of show up?

Do we want a different venue?

There are no decent boozers in Basingstoke. It is an appalling place along
with Woking and Wokingham.

Basingstoke probably wasn't under consideration.

Have you been to either of the other places?


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:46:02 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Shall I try and organise something for later this month?

Yes, no problem!

For the last (first) one, did you need to contact the pub, or was it
just a case of show up?

My wife and I popped along to have a quiet chat with the staff the
weekend before (as I recall). No special bookings required. Nice food.

Do we want a different venue?

I have no problem either way, quite happy with the last place (The
Green Man?). I tend towards the Wokingham/Bracknell side of Reading if
there's a choice, simply because of logistics of getting to/from, but
I wouldn't demand special treatment in this respect - others might
prefer a more distant location.

Suggestions I would offer for decent pubs not so far from me include
the following, which are all on the way to The Green Man for me:

Three Legged Cross: Excellent little pub, emphasis on "little". You
need to be good friends and not have someone with BO in the group to
meet there, and hope that you don't choose a night when the local WI
is meeting otherwise you'll probably end up with a couple of grannies
sat on your knee. And I mean that seating room is tight - your living
room might be bigger Good place if you are out with the other half
on a Sunday afternoon cruise and want to try a nice little place.

Location: http://tinyurl.com/3feum

Stag and Hounds: Much bigger, couple of bar areas and a separate
"restaurant" area, though built for dwarves and Santa's helpers (low
height ceilings). Remember to take forehead repair kit. History in
terms of King Whatisname used to use it during the hunting season.
Probably haunted given its background. Good food selection.

Location: http://tinyurl.com/276bq

Warren Inn: Changed its name recently - might be called the Bullfinch
now, but the only pub for a couple of miles around so I doubt you
could get lost - Citreon garage immediately opposite, in the middle of
nowhere. Decent food. Went there recently, seems to have become more
of a Berni Inn in terms of service, which I felt tends towards
production line serving arrangements.

Location: http://tinyurl.com/25c5s

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.