Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

--
F

On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC, F wrote:
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

How do you propose powering them?


Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

That`s an analogue DVR, analogue wireless CCTV is like 405 Line TV , obsolete.

You want an NVR and wireless IP cams, still have to power them though.


--
F

Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours garden.

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6

On 28/02/2017 01:57, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC, F wrote:
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

How do you propose powering them?

From a 13A socket next to where they will be located.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

That`s an analogue DVR, analogue wireless CCTV is like 405 Line TV , obsolete.

You want an NVR and wireless IP cams, still have to power them though.

Ah, thank you. Can you recommend an NVR (kit?) and suitable cameras?

--
F

On 28/02/2017 09:57, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours garden.

Thanks for the heads-up!

--
F

On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:59:06 UTC, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours garden.

A further implication of this is that the data has to be held securely, and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.

Owain

Alan Dawes Wrote in message:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked

Can people really expect privacy whilst in a public place?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:59:06 UTC, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours garden.

A further implication of this is that the data has to be held securely, and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.

Owain

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...cctv-using-cct
v-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-you
r-property

says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:08:06 AM UTC, F wrote:
On 28/02/2017 01:57, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC, F wrote:
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

How do you propose powering them?

From a 13A socket next to where they will be located.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

That`s an analogue DVR, analogue wireless CCTV is like 405 Line TV , obsolete.

You want an NVR and wireless IP cams, still have to power them though.

Ah, thank you. Can you recommend an NVR (kit?) and suitable cameras?

--
F

Have one of these, 8 channel, been reliable so far, never bothered with motion detection etc, easier to use seperate alarm:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B013U139B2/

cams, choose your features and budget, word you want to add to search is ONVIF, interoperability standard for IP cams.

first cheapy off the bay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2X-Outdoor...-/182136415281

On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:52:45 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:59:06 UTC, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours garden.

A further implication of this is that the data has to be held securely, and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.

Owain

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...cctv-using-cct
v-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-you
r-property

says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?

Thanks for posting that link.
It's difficult to separate what is legislation from what is general
advice.
eg.

it is your responsibility to make sure that the CCTV system is
installed correctly

could I use another means to protect my home, such as improved
lighting?

Also my car dashcam (which is a CCTV system after all) runs 24-7 and
has peoples property and public roads in its field of view for
practically 100% of the time, so is that illegal now?

It's not at all clear what you can capture vs. what use you make of
the footage later.

Also, that document does not touch on sound recordings that might
accompany the video, I would argue that what people say to each other
in private is more contentious than the fact they are pictured
together.


--

Graham.
%Profound_observation%

jim wrote:

Alan Dawes Wrote:

Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked

Can people really expect privacy whilst in a public place?

It's not about whether you have privacy (i.e. whether the CCTV can be
recorded or not) but whether such recordings by home users are exempt
from data protection legislation; the ECJ says they are not.

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=160561&pageIndex=0&doclan g=en&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=113106

Give Brexit a few years to settle down, then we can take an axe to this
sort of ruling.

On 28/02/17 13:35, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:52:45 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:59:06 UTC, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours garden.

A further implication of this is that the data has to be held securely, and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.

Owain

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...cctv-using-cct
v-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-you
r-property

says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?

Thanks for posting that link.
It's difficult to separate what is legislation from what is general
advice.
eg.

it is your responsibility to make sure that the CCTV system is
installed correctly

could I use another means to protect my home, such as improved
lighting?

Also my car dashcam (which is a CCTV system after all) runs 24-7 and
has peoples property and public roads in its field of view for
practically 100% of the time, so is that illegal now?

There are an estimate 1 million dashcams on the road, so...


My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction on
any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual unless
you are causing a public nuisance.

On 28/02/2017 13:03, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:08:06 AM UTC, F wrote:
On 28/02/2017 01:57, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC, F wrote:
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

How do you propose powering them?

From a 13A socket next to where they will be located.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

That`s an analogue DVR, analogue wireless CCTV is like 405 Line TV , obsolete.

You want an NVR and wireless IP cams, still have to power them though.

Ah, thank you. Can you recommend an NVR (kit?) and suitable cameras?

--
F

Have one of these, 8 channel, been reliable so far, never bothered with motion detection etc, easier to use seperate alarm:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B013U139B2/

Thanks but, unfortunately, it doesn't support wireless cameras.

--
F

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:11:21 PM UTC, F wrote:
On 28/02/2017 13:03, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:08:06 AM UTC, F wrote:
On 28/02/2017 01:57, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC, F wrote:
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

How do you propose powering them?

From a 13A socket next to where they will be located.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

That`s an analogue DVR, analogue wireless CCTV is like 405 Line TV , obsolete.

You want an NVR and wireless IP cams, still have to power them though.

Ah, thank you. Can you recommend an NVR (kit?) and suitable cameras?

--
F

Have one of these, 8 channel, been reliable so far, never bothered with motion detection etc, easier to use seperate alarm:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B013U139B2/

Thanks but, unfortunately, it doesn't support wireless cameras.

--
F

It dosen`t directly, very few will, your router premumably supports wifi, camsrouterNVR

Andy Burns Wrote in message:
jim wrote:

Alan Dawes Wrote:

Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked

Can people really expect privacy whilst in a public place?

It's not about whether you have privacy (i.e. whether the CCTV can be
recorded or not) but whether such recordings by home users are exempt
from data protection legislation; the ECJ says they are not.

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/document/document.jsf?text=&docid=160561&pageIndex=0&doclan g=en&mode=lst&dir=&occ=first&part=1&cid=113106

Give Brexit a few years to settle down, then we can take an axe to this
sort of ruling.



Clearly yet another EU nonsense area ;-)

http://www.protectingyourself.co.uk/...d-the-law.html


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 28/02/2017 15:05, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 2:11:21 PM UTC, F wrote:
On 28/02/2017 13:03, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 10:08:06 AM UTC, F wrote:
On 28/02/2017 01:57, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC, F wrote:
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits
to be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras
and they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

How do you propose powering them?

From a 13A socket next to where they will be located.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

That`s an analogue DVR, analogue wireless CCTV is like 405 Line TV , obsolete.

You want an NVR and wireless IP cams, still have to power them though.

Ah, thank you. Can you recommend an NVR (kit?) and suitable cameras?

--
F

Have one of these, 8 channel, been reliable so far, never bothered with motion detection etc, easier to use seperate alarm:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B013U139B2/

Thanks but, unfortunately, it doesn't support wireless cameras.

--
F

It dosen`t directly, very few will, your router premumably supports wifi, camsrouterNVR

Thanks, but I'm totally new to this so need some hand holding.

The wireless cameras will link to the router, got that. But how is their
output then passed on to the NVR? Presumably though an Ethernet cable
connecting the NVR to the router?

--
F

On 28/02/2017 14:07, Tim Watts wrote:

My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction on
any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual unless
you are causing a public nuisance.


There is no sanction, the most that can happen is someone will complain
and you have to make the necessary adjustments.
Then make sure you keep an eye on them to find out what they don't want
you to know about.

In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 28/02/2017 14:07, Tim Watts wrote:

My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction
on any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual
unless you are causing a public nuisance.


There is no sanction, the most that can happen is someone will complain
and you have to make the necessary adjustments.
Then make sure you keep an eye on them to find out what they don't want
you to know about.

I assume that a CCTV is there so that you can identify a burglar or vandal
damaging your car or stealing your car leading to their apprehension. As I
understand it the change in the law means that any evidence obtained from
CCTV coverage outside the boundaries of your property would not be allowed
in court unless you had registered with data protection in which case the
police could ask for a waver.

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6

"Graham." wrote in message
...
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:52:45 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:59:06 UTC, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that you
can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV covers
any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours
garden.

A further implication of this is that the data has to be
held securely, and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...cctv-using-cct
v-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-you
r-property

says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?

Thanks for posting that link.
It's difficult to separate what is legislation from what is general
advice.
eg.

it is your responsibility to make sure that the CCTV system is
installed correctly

could I use another means to protect
my home, such as improved lighting?

Depends on your circumstances. No lighting is going to be
anywhere near as good as CCTV which gets good images of
the crim up to criminal activity which the cops can recognise
one of the locals from, or you can put on your local facebook
group and have people tell you who the criminal is and you
then pass that info on to the cops. Corse that may just see
the crim in jail and you still don't get what was stolen back.

Also my car dashcam (which is a CCTV system after all) runs 24-7
and has peoples property and public roads in its field of view for
practically 100% of the time, so is that illegal now?

It's not at all clear what you can capture vs. what use you make of
the footage later.

Also, that document does not touch on sound recordings that might
accompany the video, I would argue that what people say to each other
in private is more contentious than the fact they are pictured together.

How will you be powering them, though?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"F" news@nowhere wrote in message
o.uk...
Some time ago I had http://tinyurl.com/jgrwxm3 (links to
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/swann-dvr4...FYEV0wodh_8Jcg)
recommended and it looks as though I might soon have enough round tuits to
be able to go ahead. However, I would need to add two indoor cameras and
they would need to be wireless as there's no way I can run cable.

Can anyone recommend a couple of suitable cameras?

--
F

They will be next to 13A sockets.

--

F

On 28/02/2017 19:09, Brian Gaff wrote:
How will you be powering them, though?
Brian

On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 11:52:45 UTC, jim wrote:
A further implication of this is that the data has to be held securely,
and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.
says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?

It's personal data even if it's not being recorded. If you allow someone to view a live camera feed that shows something that they can't see for themselves then that is access to personal data.

If you decide to use CCTV cameras, you should:
.... have appropriate safeguards in place to ensure that the equipment is only operated in the ways you intend and cant be misused.
https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv

Misuse would include a neighbour eavesdropping on your feed. You might only be recording the feed with a 7 day retention time, but a neighbour might be watching it continuously to spy on people and recording it with an unreasonable retention time or putting it online etc.

Owain

Alan Dawes Wrote in message:
In article om,
dennis@home wrote:
On 28/02/2017 14:07, Tim Watts wrote:

My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction
on any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual
unless you are causing a public nuisance.


There is no sanction, the most that can happen is someone will complain
and you have to make the necessary adjustments.
Then make sure you keep an eye on them to find out what they don't want
you to know about.

I assume that a CCTV is there so that you can identify a burglar or vandal
damaging your car or stealing your car leading to their apprehension. As I
understand it the change in the law means that any evidence obtained from
CCTV coverage outside the boundaries of your property would not be allowed
in court unless you had registered

Snip

What if there's a public footpath through the property?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 3:22:37 PM UTC, F wrote:
camsrouterNVR

Thanks, but I'm totally new to this so need some hand holding.

The wireless cameras will link to the router, got that. But how is their
output then passed on to the NVR?
Presumably though an Ethernet cable
connecting the NVR to the router?

Thats it, NVR only has a single RJ45 on it, this plugs into a router and the cams plug or are linled to the router.

An IP cam is just another network device with an IP address.

This looks like reasonable site for basics

http://www.cctvcameraworld.com/wirel...a-setup-guide/


--
F

Tim Watts wrote:
On 28/02/17 13:35, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:52:45 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

Wrote in message:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 09:59:06 UTC, Alan Dawes wrote:
Just a reminder of the change in the law in 2015 which means that
you can
no longer claim domestic data protection exemption if your CCTV
covers any
area outside of your property eg if your camera points covers the road
where your car is notmally parked or any part of your neighbours
garden.

A further implication of this is that the data has to be held
securely, and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.

Owain

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...cctv-using-cct
v-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-you
r-property

says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?

Thanks for posting that link.
It's difficult to separate what is legislation from what is general
advice.
eg.

it is your responsibility to make sure that the CCTV system is
installed correctly

could I use another means to protect my home, such as improved
lighting?

Also my car dashcam (which is a CCTV system after all) runs 24-7 and
has peoples property and public roads in its field of view for
practically 100% of the time, so is that illegal now?

There are an estimate 1 million dashcams on the road, so...


My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction on
any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual unless
you are causing a public nuisance.


The constabulary are very happy to use my CCTV recordings of the local
public area.

Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-28, Tim Watts wrote:
On 28/02/17 13:35, Graham. wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2017 11:52:45 +0000 (GMT+00:00), jim k wrote:

[29 lines snipped]

Also my car dashcam (which is a CCTV system after all) runs 24-7 and
has peoples property and public roads in its field of view for
practically 100% of the time, so is that illegal now?

There are an estimate 1 million dashcams on the road, so...


My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction on
any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual unless
you are causing a public nuisance.

Precisely.

And it's much easier to get forgiveness than permission.


What do these big words mean?!

wrote:
On Tuesday, 28 February 2017 11:52:45 UTC, jim wrote:
A further implication of this is that the data has to be held securely,
and analogue wireless links aren't encrypted.
says - keep the recordings secure.... when does a transmission
become a recording?

It's personal data even if it's not being recorded. If you allow someone to view a live camera feed that shows something that they can't see for themselves then that is access to personal data.

If you decide to use CCTV cameras, you should:
... have appropriate safeguards in place to ensure that the equipment is only operated in the ways you intend and cant be misused.
https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv

Misuse would include a neighbour eavesdropping on your feed. You might only be recording the feed with a 7 day retention time, but a neighbour might be watching it continuously to spy on people and recording it with an unreasonable retention time or putting it online etc.

Owain

Adam?!

On 01/03/2017 10:54, Adam Aglionby wrote:
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 3:22:37 PM UTC, F wrote:
camsrouterNVR

Thanks, but I'm totally new to this so need some hand holding.

The wireless cameras will link to the router, got that. But how is their
output then passed on to the NVR?
Presumably though an Ethernet cable
connecting the NVR to the router?

Thats it, NVR only has a single RJ45 on it, this plugs into a router and the cams plug or are linled to the router.

An IP cam is just another network device with an IP address.

This looks like reasonable site for basics

http://www.cctvcameraworld.com/wirel...a-setup-guide/

Thanks, that's really helpful.

--
F

On 01/03/2017 11:10, Capitol wrote:
Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-28, Tim Watts wrote:

My view is:

Be reasonable, and don't bother beyond that. There's no real sanction on
any of this that is likely to be applied to a private individual unless
you are causing a public nuisance.

Precisely.

And it's much easier to get forgiveness than permission.


What do these big words mean?!

It means that if you ask whether you may do something and are told no,
you can't get away with doing it. Best not to ask, and plead ignorance
later - every kid should know this.

--
Max Demian

Capitol wrote:

wrote:

Misuse would include a neighbour eavesdropping on your feed. You
might only be recording the feed with a 7 day retention time, but a
neighbour might be watching it continuously to spy on people and
recording it with an unreasonable retention time or putting it online etc.

Adam?!

Simple, just put one of your stated purposes for data protection
purposes as recording clips for public amusement ...