Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

On 26/02/17 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.


That'st because it depends on what has been listed

e,g one farmhouse was listed to preserve its outside appearance. Owner
built essentially a new one inside it.

Another had beams and ladder style staircase listed. NO chance to put a
proper staircase in.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

You need to talk to the Conservation Officer at your local council

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 26/02/2017 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



You can do quite a lot inside, but it's not a complete 'free for all'.
The powers that be are still interested in preserving period features
like lath and plaster ceilings and ceiling bosses, etc.

Do you already own the property? It would be a good idea to have an
informal chat with your local Conservation Officer. They are usually
quite helpful in advising you what sort of things would require Listed
Building Consent.

Have you come across the LPOC (Listed Property Owners Club)? There's
quite a lot of information available on their website if you register
(for free) and if you join (£55 p.a.) you get access to their experts.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On 26/02/2017 17:40, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/02/2017 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



You can do quite a lot inside, but it's not a complete 'free for all'.
The powers that be are still interested in preserving period features
like lath and plaster ceilings and ceiling bosses, etc.

That is worth knowing.


Do you already own the property? It would be a good idea to have an
informal chat with your local Conservation Officer. They are usually
quite helpful in advising you what sort of things would require Listed
Building Consent.

We are looking at a couple of investment properties. One thing we what
to assess before getting too involved is the implications, especially as
the properties aren't local.




Have you come across the LPOC (Listed Property Owners Club)? There's
quite a lot of information available on their website if you register
(for free) and if you join (£55 p.a.) you get access to their experts.


Looks promising.

Thank you and the others who responded.

On 26/02/17 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

In practice depend a bit on where you are, the state of the interior,
and just how special it is.
My old flat was in a listed building, there was nothing original left
inside, it was just a facade, an undistinguished early 19th century
terrace. The listing details said 'interiour not inspected'. And it was
in London where there are not many nosey neighbours. So, as long as the
outside is unchanged, who's to know.




--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

On 26/02/2017 20:28, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 17:40, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/02/2017 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



You can do quite a lot inside, but it's not a complete 'free for all'.
The powers that be are still interested in preserving period features
like lath and plaster ceilings and ceiling bosses, etc.

That is worth knowing.


Do you already own the property? It would be a good idea to have an
informal chat with your local Conservation Officer. They are usually
quite helpful in advising you what sort of things would require Listed
Building Consent.

We are looking at a couple of investment properties. One thing we what
to assess before getting too involved is the implications, especially as
the properties aren't local.


In which part of the country? Some authorities are much fussier than
others - the New Forest, where I own a share in a listed property, being
one of the worst!
--
Cheers,
Roger
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checked.

On 26/02/2017 21:03, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/02/2017 20:28, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 17:40, Roger Mills wrote:
On 26/02/2017 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing
modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



You can do quite a lot inside, but it's not a complete 'free for all'.
The powers that be are still interested in preserving period features
like lath and plaster ceilings and ceiling bosses, etc.

That is worth knowing.


Do you already own the property? It would be a good idea to have an
informal chat with your local Conservation Officer. They are usually
quite helpful in advising you what sort of things would require Listed
Building Consent.

We are looking at a couple of investment properties. One thing we what
to assess before getting too involved is the implications, especially as
the properties aren't local.


In which part of the country?


I'd rather not give details.

Some authorities are much fussier than
others - the New Forest, where I own a share in a listed property, being
one of the worst!

I know it well but not for listed property.

On 26/02/2017 20:59, DJC wrote:
On 26/02/17 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

In practice depend a bit on where you are, the state of the interior,
and just how special it is.
My old flat was in a listed building, there was nothing original left
inside, it was just a facade, an undistinguished early 19th century
terrace. The listing details said 'interiour not inspected'. And it was
in London where there are not many nosey neighbours. So, as long as the
outside is unchanged, who's to know.

I don't what to do anything illegal, in part as it will come to light
when we sell.

On 26/02/2017 21:14, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 20:59, DJC wrote:
On 26/02/17 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

In practice depend a bit on where you are, the state of the interior,
and just how special it is.
My old flat was in a listed building, there was nothing original left
inside, it was just a facade, an undistinguished early 19th century
terrace. The listing details said 'interiour not inspected'. And it was
in London where there are not many nosey neighbours. So, as long as the
outside is unchanged, who's to know.

I don't what to do anything illegal, in part as it will come to light
when we sell.

I live in a 1800 terraced town house Grade2 listed. Conservation Officer
is only interested in maintaining front elevation, a large "stairwell"
rear window and central staircase.
Proposals to move/remove internal walls, create bathrooms etc were met
with response that "no listed or planning permission was required for
proposed alterations" . When asked about external paint colours he just
said he wished people would be more imaginative than magnolia or white!
However I would expect internal fancy coving, plaster features etc if
present may well be protected by a conservation office.

On 26/02/2017 21:14, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 20:59, DJC wrote:
On 26/02/17 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

In practice depend a bit on where you are, the state of the interior,
and just how special it is.
My old flat was in a listed building, there was nothing original left
inside, it was just a facade, an undistinguished early 19th century
terrace. The listing details said 'interiour not inspected'. And it was
in London where there are not many nosey neighbours. So, as long as the
outside is unchanged, who's to know.

I don't what to do anything illegal, in part as it will come to light
when we sell.


Indeed. And, whilst there's a time limit for enforcement in the case of
ordinary planing infringements, there's no time limit for listed
building misdemeanors. The authorities can come back many years later
and require you to remedy them.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
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checked.

On 26/02/17 17:33, charles wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

You need to talk to the Conservation Officer at your local council


This is the only good advice you will get here. Worth following.

Some of the advice is just plain wrong. The property is listed in its
entirety. The description in the listing may mention certain features
but it is quite wrong to think that only those features are listed.

There are afaik no rules as to what is allowable modernisation. It is
all fuzzy and vague and the Conservation Officer is the important person
who decides what can be done. Much is compromise. Almost always repair
is preferred over replacement. Sometimes modern materials and techniques
are considered appropriate, sometimes not. Sometimes it is thought
better to make the new work 'disappear' with a bit of subtle ageing,
sometimes they say to leave it new looking. Sometimes the Planning
Officer is totally fastidious and officious, sometimes they can barely
be bothered to look.

Tim W

On Sunday, 26 February 2017 22:39:10 UTC, TimW wrote:
On 26/02/17 17:33, charles wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

You need to talk to the Conservation Officer at your local council


This is the only good advice you will get here. Worth following.

Some of the advice is just plain wrong. The property is listed in its
entirety. The description in the listing may mention certain features
but it is quite wrong to think that only those features are listed.

There are afaik no rules as to what is allowable modernisation. It is
all fuzzy and vague and the Conservation Officer is the important person
who decides what can be done. Much is compromise. Almost always repair
is preferred over replacement. Sometimes modern materials and techniques
are considered appropriate, sometimes not. Sometimes it is thought
better to make the new work 'disappear' with a bit of subtle ageing,
sometimes they say to leave it new looking. Sometimes the Planning
Officer is totally fastidious and officious, sometimes they can barely
be bothered to look.

Tim W

And sometimes only totally inappropriate new build work is allowed, eg glass on old stone properties. That's one people in future will look back at and think wtf were they thinking.


NT

On 26/02/2017 22:56, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-26, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

Turn round and walk away?



ROTFL, it may come to that. However, we've seen a few we like and
another place for 'breaks' would be nice. We don't like hotels and don't
always want to use the motorhome.

--

Suspect someone is claiming a benefit under false pretences? Incapacity
Benefit or Personal Independence Payment when they don't need it? They
are depriving those in real need!

https://www.gov.uk/report-benefit-fraud

In message ,
writes
On Sunday, 26 February 2017 22:39:10 UTC, TimW wrote:
On 26/02/17 17:33, charles wrote:
In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

You need to talk to the Conservation Officer at your local council


This is the only good advice you will get here. Worth following.

Some of the advice is just plain wrong. The property is listed in its
entirety. The description in the listing may mention certain features
but it is quite wrong to think that only those features are listed.

There are afaik no rules as to what is allowable modernisation. It is
all fuzzy and vague and the Conservation Officer is the important person
who decides what can be done. Much is compromise. Almost always repair
is preferred over replacement. Sometimes modern materials and techniques
are considered appropriate, sometimes not. Sometimes it is thought
better to make the new work 'disappear' with a bit of subtle ageing,
sometimes they say to leave it new looking. Sometimes the Planning
Officer is totally fastidious and officious, sometimes they can barely
be bothered to look.

Tim W

And sometimes only totally inappropriate new build work is allowed, eg
glass on old stone properties. That's one people in future will look
back at and think wtf were they thinking.

I think the idea is to segregate the new from the old while attempting
to meet the owners needs.

Matching the existing seems to be generally forbidden.
--
Tim Lamb

"Robert" wrote in message
...
On 26/02/2017 21:14, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 20:59, DJC wrote:
On 26/02/17 17:21, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing
modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

In practice depend a bit on where you are, the state of the interior,
and just how special it is.
My old flat was in a listed building, there was nothing original left
inside, it was just a facade, an undistinguished early 19th century
terrace. The listing details said 'interiour not inspected'. And it was
in London where there are not many nosey neighbours. So, as long as the
outside is unchanged, who's to know.

I don't what to do anything illegal, in part as it will come to light
when we sell.

I live in a 1800 terraced town house Grade2 listed. Conservation Officer
is only interested in maintaining front elevation, a large "stairwell"
rear window and central staircase.
Proposals to move/remove internal walls, create bathrooms etc were met
with response that "no listed or planning permission was required for
proposed alterations" .

though not all areas so reasonable

some LBO's are arseholes who want everything at time of listing to remain in
situ no matter how inappropriate it is to the original history of the
property or how inconvenient it makes it to live there.

The OP really needs to know what his local listings officer will permit, not
what some fictional one three towns away thinks is OK

tim

Its very much suck it and see with the local council. Some may charge for
detailed advice, these days they probably will, but general advice, assuming
they still have staff is normally free as it saves a lot of work later when
the plans surface.
Brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Brian Reay" wrote in message
news

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff, just
basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.

In article ,
Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 22:56, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-26, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN
a Grade 2 listed building.

Turn round and walk away?



ROTFL, it may come to that. However, we've seen a few we like and
another place for 'breaks' would be nice. We don't like hotels and don't
always want to use the motorhome.

Have a friendly chat with estate agents in the area near the property as
they usually have a good idea about what is happening.

If you need to borrow money for the purchase check with the lender about
any rules they have about listed buildings in that area.

Alan

--


Using an ARMX6

Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



Run a mile. Never buy listed buildings, leave it for someone else with
more money than sense.

On 27/02/2017 00:08, Brian Reay wrote:
On 26/02/2017 22:56, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-26, Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

Turn round and walk away?



ROTFL, it may come to that. However, we've seen a few we like and
another place for 'breaks' would be nice. We don't like hotels and don't
always want to use the motorhome.


We bought ours for breaks - and usually manage to spend a few days there
every month throughout the year.

Ours is a flat in a mansion which was converted into 6 apartments in the
1950's. The flats are leasehold, but the six leaseholders collectively
own the freehold of the building and manage its running without
employing a third-party management company.

I'm not sure that I would want to own a listed building outright - but
sharing the risk with 5 other people doesn't seem too bad.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
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On Monday, 27 February 2017 08:34:44 UTC, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message ,
tabbypurr writes

And sometimes only totally inappropriate new build work is allowed, eg
glass on old stone properties. That's one people in future will look
back at and think wtf were they thinking.

I think the idea is to segregate the new from the old

it is. And the results are a shock to the eye. Hard to find anything less suited than an all glass add-on to a 1600s house.


while attempting
to meet the owners needs.

Glass walls with abysmal insulation don't really qualify as that

Matching the existing seems to be generally forbidden.

Sadly yes. There are basically 4 possible approaches:
1. Match the existing & do it well.
2. Match the existing & make a hash of it.
3. Don't match but make it fit in comfortably
4. Make it clash totally, eg glass walls onto stone.

2 & 4 are the worst options of course. Lots of old property has had 1 done in the past. We like old properties mainly because of their style, and their history. And yet constructing more of the same interesting, quirky and charming style is now forbidden. Mad. Especially when keeping record of what was built when is in no way a challenge nowadays.


NT

On 27/02/17 11:11, Capitol wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



Run a mile. Never buy listed buildings, leave it for someone else
with more money than sense.

The best way to enjoy a 15th century cottage with all the beams is rent
one for a holiday

In message , Huge
writes

BTW, renting (holiday) houses is a brilliant way of finding out, at a
reasonable cost, that low beams, wet rooms and AGAs are all ****e.

What don't you like about wet rooms?

--
Tim Lamb

"Huge" wrote in message
...
On 2017-02-27, Tim Watts wrote:
On 27/02/17 11:11, Capitol wrote:
Brian Reay wrote:

Does anyone have any 'rule of thumb' guidelines on what you can do IN a
Grade 2 listed building.

I'm not thinking of major works- extensions etc- nor exterior stuff,
just basic things like decorating, possibly replacing an existing
modern
kitchen or bathroom, etc.

I've looked on the internet and 'vague' isn't strong enough to describe
the sites which, supposedly, offer advice.



Run a mile. Never buy listed buildings, leave it for someone else
with more money than sense.

The best way to enjoy a 15th century cottage with all the beams is rent
one for a holiday

Excellent advice. I think I can still feel the bump on my head from
where I stood up too quickly in the living room of one. That might have
been the same one that had a beam running across the kitchen at a height
of about 4' 6".

BTW, renting (holiday) houses is a brilliant way of finding out, at a
reasonable cost, that low beams, wet rooms and AGAs are all ****e.

wet rooms are great

I had one in my Swedish flat, wish I had one here

tim




--
Today is Pungenday, the 58th day of Chaos in the YOLD 3183
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

On 26/02/17 20:28, Brian Reay wrote:

We are looking at a couple of investment properties. One thing we what
to assess before getting too involved is the implications, especially as
the properties aren't local.


If it's an investment you don't want listed, the cost of maintenance
will be higher because of that compliance and it won't bring in any more
in rent.




--
djc

(–€Ì¿Ä¹Ì¯–€Ì¿ Ì¿)
No low-hanging fruit, just a lot of small berries up a tall tree.

In message , Huge
writes
On 2017-02-27, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , Huge
writes

BTW, renting (holiday) houses is a brilliant way of finding out, at a
reasonable cost, that low beams, wet rooms and AGAs are all ****e.

What don't you like about wet rooms?

Doubtless they could be done right, with proper extraction, underfloor
heating and physical separation of the wet and dry areas, but I've never
used one that was anything other than cold, slippery, impractical and hard
on the feet and made all your towels and bathroom stuff damp all the time.
The word "dank" springs to mind. Like showering in a cave.

Umm..

I am attempting to future proof our next home. As planned there will be
3 *bathrooms*. Sadly builders ideas of following architects drawings
adapts dimensions to the nearest 1/2 block. This has meant that a space
marginally tight for wheelchair access is now very tight! Shower screens
would detract further.

Extract/underfloor heating planned, (maybe humidity stat.). Electric
towel rail for summer.

I do like large walk-in shower cubicles that are separated from the rest
of the bathroom. Do they count as "wet rooms"?

Current is 800x1200 and seems adequate. You can stand out of the spray
while the thermostat stabilises.


--
Tim Lamb

On 28/02/2017 08:47, Tim Lamb wrote:


I am attempting to future proof our next home. As planned there will be
3 *bathrooms*. Sadly builders ideas of following architects drawings
adapts dimensions to the nearest 1/2 block.

'Twas ever thus. Any architect worth his salt would realise this and
produce designs based on integral multiples of the materials being used.

I found this out the hard way when I designed a new garage, and had to
accept a few dimensional compromises.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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