https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

On 15/02/17 17:47, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:45:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

"the wind turbine has an electrical power output
of 15 kilowatts". So allowing for a capacity factor of say 20%,
they'll get 3kW out of it on average. I wonder how much it costs!

well its around £1000/kw (capacity) for a large turbine So at least £15k.

to just about get rid of your electricity bill. Mines around 1k per year
which wont pay for that., Of course you probably get a huge FIT bunce ....

--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On 15/02/2017 19:01, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:47:51 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:45:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

"the wind turbine has an electrical power output
of 15 kilowatts". So allowing for a capacity factor of say 20%,
they'll get 3kW out of it on average. I wonder how much it costs!

How much it will cost *us* you mean?

Unless its an approved design by an approved installer they won't be
paid for any electricity.



"The homes, farm etc are still connected to the national grid and can
still draw power from the grid when the turbine isn’t running."

Why would it not be running? Oh, I know, it's broken or there is not
enough or too much wind.

"The community group receives the Feed In Tariff and export tariff
payments for generating renewable electricity"

So what microgeneration certificate does a home built wind mill have?


Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.


Harry has probably gone to buymysolar.net by now.

On 15-Feb-17 5:47 PM, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:45:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

"the wind turbine has an electrical power output
of 15 kilowatts". So allowing for a capacity factor of say 20%,
they'll get 3kW out of it on average. I wonder how much it costs!


A lot more than the old oil drum cut in half to make a Savonius rotor
and the generator from a bus or lorry out of a scrapyard that was
cutting edge DIY windmill design in the 1970s.

--
--

Colin Bignell

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

"The community group receives the Feed In Tariff and export tariff
payments for generating renewable electricity"

So what microgeneration certificate does a home built wind mill have?

shrug


Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

R i g h t .... and that 'Green energy' tax is paid by ... ? Yup,
electricity bill payers.

Harry has probably gone to buymysolar.net by now.

Or the South of France on his FIT 'income'.

Cheers, T i m

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11718594/Green-energy-subsidies-spiral-out-of-control.html

"Officials admitted that so-called “green” energy schemes will require
a staggering £9 billion a year in subsidies - paid for by customers -
by 2020. "

So, most electricity consumers are paying a minority of people for the
privilege of not only *not* actually helping with our base energy
supply but expecting us to pay for what they generate (when they do
.... which often is not when we actually want it) and use themselves!

You really couldn't make it up.

Cheers, T i m

On Wednesday, 15 February 2017 20:27:01 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

"The community group receives the Feed In Tariff and export tariff
payments for generating renewable electricity"

So what microgeneration certificate does a home built wind mill have?

shrug


Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

R i g h t .... and that 'Green energy' tax is paid by ... ? Yup,
electricity bill payers.

Harry has probably gone to buymysolar.net by now.

Or the South of France on his FIT 'income'.

No,I'd be bored.
I do have a Rolls Royce out of the profits.

On Wednesday, 15 February 2017 20:57:47 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11718594/Green-energy-subsidies-spiral-out-of-control.html

"Officials admitted that so-called €œgreen€� energy schemes will require
a staggering £9 billion a year in subsidies - paid for by customers -
by 2020. "

So, most electricity consumers are paying a minority of people for the
privilege of not only *not* actually helping with our base energy
supply but expecting us to pay for what they generate (when they do
... which often is not when we actually want it) and use themselves!


But not as much subsidy as nuclear power.
Or the fossil fuels.

Somebody who lived next door to a store that hada wind turbine on its roof
successfully had it removed due to the noise it made whining all night.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"harry" wrote in message
...
https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

Be OK to charge up batteries for various devices with though.
I don't think most diyers of such things think about cost, 8its the
challenge of getting it to work.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:45:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

"the wind turbine has an electrical power output
of 15 kilowatts". So allowing for a capacity factor of say 20%,
they'll get 3kW out of it on average. I wonder how much it costs!

--

Chris

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:22:37 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 15 February 2017 20:57:47 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11718594/Green-energy-subsidies-spiral-out-of-control.html

"Officials admitted that so-called “green” energy schemes will require
a staggering £9 billion a year in subsidies - paid for by customers -
by 2020. "

So, most electricity consumers are paying a minority of people for the
privilege of not only *not* actually helping with our base energy
supply but expecting us to pay for what they generate (when they do
... which often is not when we actually want it) and use themselves!


But not as much subsidy as nuclear power.

Good, at least that's predictable and can be relied on 24/7.

Or the fossil fuels.

The only way you can bring the use of fossil fuels into a conversation
about energy is if you are willing to accept the alternative and have
no power *every* night and many days (especially when we need power
most, in the winter).

A true 'alternative' (when it comes to alternative energy sources)
would be something that would offer the same capacity and availability
as what we have no and with Solar and Wind we all know that is *NEVER*
going to happen.

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:52:34 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Though much of this is true, is not this how the current capitalist system
is supposed to function? Nobody asks about carbon footprints etc about other
stuff we buy.

True Brian, but few other things we (the majority) *have* to buy earn
cash for a small minority and for something they are also consuming
themselves!

It's like you are buying a cake and harry is eating it and we are all
supposed to think that deal is fair?

I was musing about energy efficient lights and wondered how
efficient they were if you add development costs etc into the mix.

One assumes that has already been done somewhere along the lines? I
know the first CFL I bought (a Phillips in a glass jar jobby) probably
cost me in excess of 20 quid then but they went down in price over the
years (as most things do).

Except for the cash a minority are going to be earning from us for
using the energy they produce themselves ... that's guaranteed and
index linked for 20 years! ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:47:05 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:


I don't think most diyers of such things think about cost, 8its the
challenge of getting it to work.

I don't think 'most people' think about lots of stuff, including those
being suckered into the whole alternative energy / green bs and the
lack of thought and understanding re where their 'Magic Money' is
actually coming from. Whilst there are people like harry who would
happily take a fiver out of a blind buskers cap, many of us like to
find out who exactly pays for these handouts and won't go for them if
they upset our moral compass.

It's exactly the same thing as why I didn't buy any shares when they
were selling off public utilities (to make a quick buck from) because
I considered it wrong in the first place.

Whilst those of us who feel the same may be considered 'mugs' but
unlike the thieves and greedy, I like being able to sleep well at
night and believe 'what goes round comes round'. You never know, harry
could be outside on a breezy day and one of the blades comes off his
'let's see just how much money I can earn of other people' wind
turbine and ... ;-(

Cheers, T i m

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:45:36 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Somebody who lived next door to a store that hada wind turbine on its roof
successfully had it removed due to the noise it made whining all night.

Yup, this is all just another instance of being 'socially responsible
/ considerate' and a having a sense of community.

Now, if he had put the turbine on a nearby hill and shared the
electricity with the community, maybe they would put up with some
noise?

Cheers, T i m

On 16/02/2017 10:53, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 09:45:36 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Somebody who lived next door to a store that hada wind turbine on its roof
successfully had it removed due to the noise it made whining all night.

Yup, this is all just another instance of being 'socially responsible
/ considerate' and a having a sense of community.

Now, if he had put the turbine on a nearby hill and shared the
electricity with the community, maybe they would put up with some
noise?

Cheers, T i m


Noise is something that is hard to put up with.
Unlike solar where the most you can complain about is the glare if it
reflects in a bad way noise can cause sleep deprivation and murder.

On 16/02/17 09:45, Brian Gaff wrote:
Somebody who lived next door to a store that hada wind turbine on its roof
successfully had it removed due to the noise it made whining all night.
Brian

Gosh . If only one could do that with wives...

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:55:01 PM UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 15/02/2017 19:01, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:47:51 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:45:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

"the wind turbine has an electrical power output
of 15 kilowatts". So allowing for a capacity factor of say 20%,
they'll get 3kW out of it on average. I wonder how much it costs!

How much it will cost *us* you mean?

Unless its an approved design by an approved installer they won't be
paid for any electricity.



"The homes, farm etc are still connected to the national grid and can
still draw power from the grid when the turbine isnt running."

Why would it not be running? Oh, I know, it's broken or there is not
enough or too much wind.

"The community group receives the Feed In Tariff and export tariff
payments for generating renewable electricity"

So what microgeneration certificate does a home built wind mill have?


Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.


Clearly this has changed a lot then, or maybe it is being expressed differently. It used to be that the FIT paid 4-5 times the price of grid electricity.

Robert

On 16/02/17 12:02, RobertL wrote:
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:55:01 PM UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 15/02/2017 19:01, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 17:47:51 +0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 08:45:05 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

https://transitionmalvernhills.org.u...-wind-turbine/

"the wind turbine has an electrical power output
of 15 kilowatts". So allowing for a capacity factor of say 20%,
they'll get 3kW out of it on average. I wonder how much it costs!

How much it will cost *us* you mean?

Unless its an approved design by an approved installer they won't be
paid for any electricity.



"The homes, farm etc are still connected to the national grid and can
still draw power from the grid when the turbine isnt running."

Why would it not be running? Oh, I know, it's broken or there is not
enough or too much wind.

"The community group receives the Feed In Tariff and export tariff
payments for generating renewable electricity"

So what microgeneration certificate does a home built wind mill have?


Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.


Clearly this has changed a lot then, or maybe it is being expressed differently. It used to be that the FIT paid 4-5 times the price of grid electricity.

Robert


the two statements are not inconsistent. Most of the green cash goes on
solar panels and big windmills. the odd farmer with a 500KW windmill in
a field doesn't amount to a great deal, except to his poor bloody
neighbours.


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Thursday, 16 February 2017 10:29:53 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:22:37 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 15 February 2017 20:57:47 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11718594/Green-energy-subsidies-spiral-out-of-control.html

"Officials admitted that so-called €œgreen€� energy schemes will require
a staggering £9 billion a year in subsidies - paid for by customers -
by 2020. "

So, most electricity consumers are paying a minority of people for the
privilege of not only *not* actually helping with our base energy
supply but expecting us to pay for what they generate (when they do
... which often is not when we actually want it) and use themselves!


But not as much subsidy as nuclear power.

Good, at least that's predictable and can be relied on 24/7.

Or the fossil fuels.

The only way you can bring the use of fossil fuels into a conversation
about energy is if you are willing to accept the alternative and have
no power *every* night and many days (especially when we need power
most, in the winter).

A true 'alternative' (when it comes to alternative energy sources)
would be something that would offer the same capacity and availability
as what we have no and with Solar and Wind we all know that is *NEVER*
going to happen.

Cheers, T i m

The molten salt solar towers are trying to do just that. Whether they'll ever be economic is another matter.


NT

On 16/02/17 12:25, wrote:
On Thursday, 16 February 2017 10:29:53 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 00:22:37 -0800 (PST), harry
wrote:

On Wednesday, 15 February 2017 20:57:47 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 19:54:58 +0000, dennis@home
wrote:

snip

Which isn't magic money but money coming from ordinary electricity
users out of their hard earned case.

No its actually about 0.5% of the approximately 10% green energy tax
that is spent on FIT payments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/11718594/Green-energy-subsidies-spiral-out-of-control.html

"Officials admitted that so-called €œgreen€� energy schemes will require
a staggering £9 billion a year in subsidies - paid for by customers -
by 2020. "

So, most electricity consumers are paying a minority of people for the
privilege of not only *not* actually helping with our base energy
supply but expecting us to pay for what they generate (when they do
... which often is not when we actually want it) and use themselves!


But not as much subsidy as nuclear power.

Good, at least that's predictable and can be relied on 24/7.

Or the fossil fuels.

The only way you can bring the use of fossil fuels into a conversation
about energy is if you are willing to accept the alternative and have
no power *every* night and many days (especially when we need power
most, in the winter).

A true 'alternative' (when it comes to alternative energy sources)
would be something that would offer the same capacity and availability
as what we have no and with Solar and Wind we all know that is *NEVER*
going to happen.

Cheers, T i m

The molten salt solar towers are trying to do just that. Whether they'll ever be economic is another matter.



Te basic physics say thy would be lucky to be more than 30% efficeint
with the raw input being just as variable as anything else. They are
also instant bird death. Anything capable of melting salt is well
capable of vaporising birds. Its a very very danegerous technology.

NT



--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal