I'd be grateful for any tips for ensuring that a hole made with a hand-held
drill is accurately at 90 degrees to a surface. I've wondered about
knocking up a flat metal plate with a short stub of tubing set exactly
perpendicular to it and using that as a guide, but it would be necessary to
make a whole set of them for different size bits. It would also, in smaller
sizes, be very tricky to position the tube exactly where the hole is to be
drilled/

I've tried an accurately-cut V shape in a thick block of wood and placing
the drill into the corner of the cutout; this has worked up to a point but I
wonder if something more spot-on might be possible.

Many thanks.

Summat like this.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....S._SL1500_.jpg

Richard

On 06/02/2017 19:56, Bert Coules wrote:
I'd be grateful for any tips for ensuring that a hole made with a
hand-held drill is accurately at 90 degrees to a surface. I've wondered
about knocking up a flat metal plate with a short stub of tubing set
exactly perpendicular to it and using that as a guide, but it would be
necessary to make a whole set of them for different size bits. It would
also, in smaller sizes, be very tricky to position the tube exactly
where the hole is to be drilled/

I've tried an accurately-cut V shape in a thick block of wood and
placing the drill into the corner of the cutout; this has worked up to a
point but I wonder if something more spot-on might be possible.

Many thanks.


what about an upside down F shape, the vertical part being wood
the 2 horizintal parts being thinish perspex, with holes pre drilled for
various drill sizes.

Personall I just eyeball it and I doubt any are 100% but as I
countersink in wood not an issue.
You could also buy a cheap drill stand on ebay.

Richard,

Thanks for that. Do you have a link to the actual device?

Bert

Bert Coules wrote:

I'd be grateful for any tips for ensuring that a hole made with a hand-held
drill is accurately at 90 degrees to a surface.

If you've got access to a drill press, but can't use it for the surface
in question, cut an accurately square block of wood, drill a straight
hole in it using the press, then clamp (or temporarily screw or hotglue)
the block in place while you drill your hole.

Thanks for the new replies. Unfortunately, my drill press (along with all
my other workshop gear) is in storage at present. I have just found this:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster...ide-kit-210235

which is simpler than the device Richard linked to but which might answer my
immediate need.

Bert

Bert

Here is the link' it's a bit pricey but there are some cheaper alternatives.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/oal/Wolfc...ft+drill+guide

Richard

Thanks, Richard. As you say, pricey, but it looks decently made and I think
it would be excellent for drilling downwards onto a horizontal surface. For
anything vertical the lighter Axmister device might well have the edge,
though it would surely need to be handled with a lot more care than the
Wolfcraft to get an equally spot-on result.

Bert

On 2/6/2017 7:56 PM, Bert Coules wrote:
I'd be grateful for any tips for ensuring that a hole made with a
hand-held drill is accurately at 90 degrees to a surface. I've wondered
about knocking up a flat metal plate with a short stub of tubing set
exactly perpendicular to it and using that as a guide, but it would be
necessary to make a whole set of them for different size bits. It would
also, in smaller sizes, be very tricky to position the tube exactly
where the hole is to be drilled/

I've tried an accurately-cut V shape in a thick block of wood and
placing the drill into the corner of the cutout; this has worked up to a
point but I wonder if something more spot-on might be possible.

Many thanks.


Because you need to drill a large, inconveniently shaped object like a boat?

Otherwise it is a pillar drill, every time. Or, for large fixed metal
structures, then a drill on a magnetic stand.

"newshound" wrote:

Because you need to drill a large, inconveniently shaped object like a
boat?

Or a wall or a door: not inconveniently shaped but tricky to get under a
pillar drill.

Bert

On 2/6/2017 8:46 PM, Bert Coules wrote:
"newshound" wrote:

Because you need to drill a large, inconveniently shaped object like a
boat?

Or a wall or a door: not inconveniently shaped but tricky to get under a
pillar drill.

Bert

True. But then how often do you actually need to get an *accurately*
perpendicular hole into these? And if you do, you can always drill
through, say, a block of wood (provided you have a pillar drill to make
the guide hole perpendicular).

Some of the tools shown elsewhere do come in handy if you need to drill
accurately through the centre of something like a newel post or a bannister.

"newshound" asked:

True. But then how often do you actually need to get an *accurately*
perpendicular hole into these?

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert

On 06/02/2017 19:56, Bert Coules wrote:
I'd be grateful for any tips for ensuring that a hole made with a
hand-held drill is accurately at 90 degrees to a surface. I've wondered
about knocking up a flat metal plate with a short stub of tubing set
exactly perpendicular to it and using that as a guide, but it would be
necessary to make a whole set of them for different size bits. It would
also, in smaller sizes, be very tricky to position the tube exactly
where the hole is to be drilled/

I've tried an accurately-cut V shape in a thick block of wood and
placing the drill into the corner of the cutout; this has worked up to a
point but I wonder if something more spot-on might be possible.

Stick a large bit in the drill, and clamp it up so the drill bit is
vertical and plumb. Now fix a "bulls eye" level to the back of the drill
with some hotmelt or epoxy, making sure its sets dead centre. In future
all you need to is get the level dead centre to know you are plumb.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John,

Nice idea and I'll investigate tomorrow but from memory on neither of my two
hand drills are the back plates either dead flat nor - more crucially -
parallel to the front of the chuck.

Bert

On 06/02/2017 21:18, Bert Coules wrote:
"newshound" asked:

True. But then how often do you actually need to get an *accurately*
perpendicular hole into these?

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few
holes in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach
the handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly
not in such numbers.

Bert
I did this by drilling from the face side using a hand held drill and a
small set square for guidance - it was quick and easy. The handle
position is set by the start point of the holes and a small angular
error is insignificant over 12-18mm, especially when using holes sized
for clearance.

On 06/02/2017 23:05, Bert Coules wrote:
John,

Nice idea and I'll investigate tomorrow but from memory on neither of my
two hand drills are the back plates either dead flat nor - more
crucially - parallel to the front of the chuck.

Hence why the epoxy/hotmelt fixing - get the drill clamped in the
position it needs to be, then set the bulls eye level on the blob of
gloop and make sure it reads level in both axis before said gloop
sets/cools. That way the gloop takes out the shape of the back of the
drill from the equation.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 06/02/2017 21:18, Bert Coules wrote:

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few
holes in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach
the handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

Dead easy. Put the drill bit on the work and start the hole. Hold a
small trysquare on the work and sight the bit against it. Do it once
again at 90deg around the drill, all the time holding the drill stead.
Drill your hole. This is how I drill through 4" fence posts to fasten
steel plates on both sides with the same bolts and the accuracy is
plenty good enough.

Bill

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert

Most cupboard handles are held by 4mm machine screws. Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant number of handles to attach, I simply made a MDF jig that hooked over one edge self aligned against the top/bottom edge of the doors and drilled through preset holes in the jig. It was still serviceable after 20+ handles and every hole was spot on. I think I used a 4.5mm drill just to allow for a slight adjustment.

Richard

John,

Thanks. In fact, I realised that was what you meant, just after I posted my
reply.

Bert

Thanks for the new replies and tips. Drilling slightly oversize to allow
for any mild wander is a good notion.

Bert

On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 23:50:07 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:

Most cupboard handles are held by 4mm machine screws. Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant number of handles to attach, I simply made a MDF jig that hooked over one edge self aligned against the top/bottom edge of the doors and drilled through preset holes in the jig. It was still serviceable after 20+ handles and every hole was spot on. I think I used a 4.5mm drill just to allow for a slight adjustment.

Wot e said.

And those 4 mm screws will still tighten up fine if it's a shade out.

In a more industrial setting, there's the "drill bushing":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bushing

which is a hardened steel guide which is installed in a jig. It takes the wear
of guiding the spinning bit. They also come in different inner hole diameters
with the same outer diameters, allowing one to swap bushings to accommodate
different drill bit diameters.


Thomas Prufer

Bert Coules wrote:
"newshound" asked:

True. But then how often do you actually need to get an *accurately*
perpendicular hole into these?

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert



I've drilled many drawer fronts and cupboard doors without using any device
to ensure absolute perpendicularity. (Dunno if that's a word but it is
now). ;-)

You can get simple plastic positioning guides to align the holes with
respect to the drawer front/top/bottom etc and then drill "free hand".

For example,
http://www.diy.com/departments/bq-pl...m/37618_BQ.prd

As long as the holes in the drawer front are accurately aligned with the
corresponding holes in the handles a slight deviation in the hole angle is
of little consequence. I think you're over-complicating a simple task.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 06/02/17 21:18, Bert Coules wrote:
"newshound" asked:

True. But then how often do you actually need to get an *accurately*
perpendicular hole into these?

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few
holes in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach
the handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly
not in such numbers.

Bert
TBH all you need to do is drill a pilot very carefully, ling up by eye
from the two relevant dimensions.
Then drill the big 'un


--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

"Tim+" wrote:

I think you're over-complicating a simple task.

That is entirely possible. And in one respect, it's even easier than
kitchens I've worked on before, since the reverse of the doors are already
marked with drilling points for standard-size handles. Mind you, this
encourages drilling from back to front, so any wandering will happen on the
less favourable side.

Bert

"Tricky Dicky" wrote:

Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant
number of handles to attach, I simply made an MDF jig...

The doors I'm fitting have come with pre-marked indentations for standard
handle sizes. But of course these are on the back of the doors, and
drilling from that side means that any wander occurs on the front, where
it's rather less accommodatable. A jig is a good idea.

Bert

On 07/02/2017 09:23, Bert Coules wrote:
"Tim+" wrote:

I think you're over-complicating a simple task.

That is entirely possible. And in one respect, it's even easier than
kitchens I've worked on before, since the reverse of the doors are
already marked with drilling points for standard-size handles. Mind
you, this encourages drilling from back to front, so any wandering will
happen on the less favourable side.

Bert

Do you have a Bench pillar drill? If you are worried, why not use that?

On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 23:50:07 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert

Most cupboard handles are held by 4mm machine screws. Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant number of handles to attach, I simply made a MDF jig that hooked over one edge self aligned against the top/bottom edge of the doors and drilled through preset holes in the jig. It was still serviceable after 20+ handles and every hole was spot on. I think I used a 4.5mm drill just to allow for a slight adjustment.


I've used a 3D printer I have access to (because I mostly built it
g) to print all sorts of templates and jigs (often revisable /
multi-purpose) and that makes the job very easy (both making the jig
and drilling the holes though it).

The PLA 'plastic' we use isn't the best material in the world for such
jobs, especially if the bit gets hot but as long as you consider that,
it will generally see the job out (or you can print more). ;-)

This does require access to a 3D printer of course ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On 2017-02-06, Bert Coules wrote:
Thanks for that. Do you have a link to the actual device?

http://bestdrillpresscompared.com/to...craft-4525404/

On Tuesday, 7 February 2017 10:02:17 UTC, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 23:50:07 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
tricky.dicky wrote:


Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert

Most cupboard handles are held by 4mm machine screws. Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant number of handles to attach, I simply made a MDF jig that hooked over one edge self aligned against the top/bottom edge of the doors and drilled through preset holes in the jig. It was still serviceable after 20+ handles and every hole was spot on. I think I used a 4.5mm drill just to allow for a slight adjustment.


I've used a 3D printer I have access to (because I mostly built it
g) to print all sorts of templates and jigs (often revisable /
multi-purpose) and that makes the job very easy (both making the jig
and drilling the holes though it).

The PLA 'plastic' we use isn't the best material in the world for such
jobs, especially if the bit gets hot but as long as you consider that,
it will generally see the job out (or you can print more). ;-)

This does require access to a 3D printer of course ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

Surely it's quicker, more durable & far cheaper to make a jig the old way.

I would like to see the day us diyers start building houses using huge 3d printers.


NT

On 2/7/2017 7:50 AM, Tricky Dicky wrote:

Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert

Most cupboard handles are held by 4mm machine screws. Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant number of handles to attach, I simply made a MDF jig that hooked over one edge self aligned against the top/bottom edge of the doors and drilled through preset holes in the jig. It was still serviceable after 20+ handles and every hole was spot on. I think I used a 4.5mm drill just to allow for a slight adjustment.

Richard

+1, very well worth doing. Also for positioning hinges, if you don't
have pre-drilled carcases.

On 2/7/2017 9:26 AM, Bert Coules wrote:
"Tricky Dicky" wrote:

Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant
number of handles to attach, I simply made an MDF jig...

The doors I'm fitting have come with pre-marked indentations for
standard handle sizes. But of course these are on the back of the
doors, and drilling from that side means that any wander occurs on the
front, where it's rather less accommodatable. A jig is a good idea.

Bert

Drill from both sides. You need clearance for the spindles. The entry
holes need to be accurate, the perpendicularity of the hole is
unimportant. The spindle does need to go square between the handles to
avoid binding in the latch, but that is set by the handle positions.

On 2/7/2017 10:02 AM, T i m wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 23:50:07 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky
wrote:


Well just at the moment I'm faced with the task of drilling a good few holes
in the doors and drawer fronts of a new kitchen in order to attach the
handles. Accuracy is pretty important.

After this project I doubt if the need will ever arise again, certainly not
in such numbers.

Bert

Most cupboard handles are held by 4mm machine screws. Last time I put a kitchen in requiring a significant number of handles to attach, I simply made a MDF jig that hooked over one edge self aligned against the top/bottom edge of the doors and drilled through preset holes in the jig. It was still serviceable after 20+ handles and every hole was spot on. I think I used a 4.5mm drill just to allow for a slight adjustment.


I've used a 3D printer I have access to (because I mostly built it
g) to print all sorts of templates and jigs (often revisable /
multi-purpose) and that makes the job very easy (both making the jig
and drilling the holes though it).

The PLA 'plastic' we use isn't the best material in the world for such
jobs, especially if the bit gets hot but as long as you consider that,
it will generally see the job out (or you can print more). ;-)

This does require access to a 3D printer of course ... ;-)

Cheers, T i m

And I've been telling myself I don't want one, there's nothing useful I
could do with it.

Thanks, Alan.

Bert

T i m, I'd love to have a 3D printer to play with, but alas I haven't.

Bert

"GB" wrote:

Do you have a Bench pillar drill?
If you are worried, why not use that?

I do, but it's not available at the moment.

Bert

On 07/02/2017 11:21, Bert Coules wrote:
"GB" wrote:

Do you have a Bench pillar drill? If you are worried, why not use that?

I do, but it's not available at the moment.

Bert

Sorry, you did say.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 02:39:38 -0800 (PST), wrote:

snip

I've used a 3D printer I have access to (because I mostly built it
g) to print all sorts of templates and jigs (often revisable /
multi-purpose) and that makes the job very easy (both making the jig
and drilling the holes though it).

The PLA 'plastic' we use isn't the best material in the world for such
jobs, especially if the bit gets hot but as long as you consider that,
it will generally see the job out (or you can print more). ;-)

This does require access to a 3D printer of course ... ;-)



Surely it's quicker,

That can depend on the complexity of the jig in both how long it takes
to design and print versus how long to design, source the materials
and make (accurately)?

more durable & far cheaper to make a jig the old way.

I wouldn't say so. The 3d printed stuff is nearly indestructible (from
a general impact / abuse pov) and would cost pence to actually print
(once you have the printer of course). ;-)

I would like to see the day us diyers start building houses using huge 3d printers.

It's being done already of course and some of it done (or started) by
d-i-y'ers. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:06:50 +0000, newshound
wrote:

snip


This does require access to a 3D printer of course ... ;-)


And I've been telling myself I don't want one, there's nothing useful I
could do with it.

Oh, mate, ours could (and has some times) been running all day, every
day, there are just so many things you can make with them (including
the bits for more printers). When I get a sec I'll see if I can knock
up a list of the things I've done so far. ;-)

And you can build it yourself of course, keeping it strictly on d-i-y
topic. ;-)

I really wouldn't be without one now (seriously).

(This is what we have):

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:20355

Cheers, T i m

On Tue, 7 Feb 2017 11:20:26 -0000, "Bert Coules"
wrote:

T i m, I'd love to have a 3D printer to play with, but alas I haven't.

If you had a spec (or we came up with one) and you could wait a bit, I
might be able to print a template for you (foc)?

Cheers, T i m

Don't know about that part but a bit of tape round the drill works for
depth!

For the most part its usually OK to do it by feel of the drill.
After all Rawl plugs are not the most accurate devices in the world.
brian

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bert Coules" wrote in message
news
I'd be grateful for any tips for ensuring that a hole made with a
hand-held drill is accurately at 90 degrees to a surface. I've wondered
about knocking up a flat metal plate with a short stub of tubing set
exactly perpendicular to it and using that as a guide, but it would be
necessary to make a whole set of them for different size bits. It would
also, in smaller sizes, be very tricky to position the tube exactly where
the hole is to be drilled/

I've tried an accurately-cut V shape in a thick block of wood and placing
the drill into the corner of the cutout; this has worked up to a point but
I wonder if something more spot-on might be possible.

Many thanks.