We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot
bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and
used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it
if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen
reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from
the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

--

Jeff

On Thursday, 2 February 2017 09:08:36 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:
We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot
bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and
used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it
if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen
reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from
the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

I've seen it many times. Grass tends to grow over the edge, but it's not really a problem. It looks less formal. You want to lay the slab edges onto mortar, stone can come out over time otherwise.


NT

Jeff Layman wrote:

I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Bullnose edging? e.g.

http://www.hartwellfencingandpaving.co.uk/product_large/IMG_0153.jpg

On 02/02/2017 09:08, Jeff Layman wrote:

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

Yes. The main problem you get is muddy paths with soil up against a path
when it rains as birds and voles scatter soil onto the path. It is worst
when you have just added a layer of composted mulch in winter.

The path through my veg plot has no edging - which is fine where it is
but would be a real nuisance on a well travelled path nearer the house.

Lawn right up against a path is no problem at all - except that it will
slowly spread out over it but that is easily trimmed once a year.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

I would go for edging as no matter what you may think the lawn particularly
will get established at the first join between slabs and start to move them
about with the roots.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
news
We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old and
cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be done with
600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a proper base -
compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot bedding!) mortar
mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and used for foot traffic
only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it if
the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen reasons
given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one might
apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from the
paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick; why
is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder has
suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those on
edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

--

Jeff

On 02/02/2017 09:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot
bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and
used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it
if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen

Part of the reason is the need to retain the sub base at the edges. If
the path is sunk into the ground this may be less necessary. You could
also do it with concrete haunches that don't come right up tot he
finished paving level. How important this is will depend on the local
soil conditions.

reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from
the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

I did inset paving across my lawn - compacted sub base and then slabs
laid on a weak mix of blinding (sharp sand and cement - buy just laid
damp and allowed to "crisp"). Generally has worked well apart from where
I have hit them with the ride on mower (although on the bright side, it
allows the slab to shift in preference to ripping the deck off the
bottom of the mower!)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/02/17 09:08, Jeff Layman wrote:
We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot
bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and
used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it
if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen
reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from
the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?


We've got a path of single slabs laid down the garden on a bed of dry
sand and miserly cement positioned next to a flowerbed. Over time some
of that poor mix has washed out under the slabs, and some are starting
to tip and move sideways making walking a bit exciting. A concreted
buffer strip would have been a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix would
have worked without.

--
Adrian C

On 02/02/17 12:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
en a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix would
have worked without.


Opps, my snipping ability is failing. Sorry for the extra bytes...

--
Adrian C

On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 02/02/17 12:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
en a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix would
have worked without.


Opps, my snipping ability is failing. Sorry for the extra bytes...

--
Adrian C

A controlled spray of Roundup at the junction of the pathe and the grass will help control the grassy over growth. Just don't do it on a windy day.I'll leave the aestetics to others.

On 02/02/17 13:48, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-02, fred wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 02/02/17 12:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
en a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix would
have worked without.


Opps, my snipping ability is failing. Sorry for the extra bytes...

--
Adrian C

A controlled spray of Roundup ...

Stock up. You may not be able to get it much longer.


At least we can lobby MPs to get the ban rescinded post Brexit.


--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 09:08:33 +0000, Jeff Layman
wrote:

We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot
bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and
used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it
if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen
reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from
the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?


I had some laid with edging "bricks" which look very good - they protrude about
three inches higher than the paving itself - bedded in cement.

Part of the paving butts up to a garden. I did not want the edging there and a
bed of cement was put under the edge of each slab next to the garden. It is
not as high as the top edge of the paving and is covered with just a couple of
inches of topsoil. Very secure and looks good.

On 02/02/17 14:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/17 13:48, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-02, fred wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 02/02/17 12:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
en a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix
would
have worked without.


Opps, my snipping ability is failing. Sorry for the extra bytes...

--
Adrian C

A controlled spray of Roundup ...

Stock up. You may not be able to get it much longer.


At least we can lobby MPs to get the ban rescinded post Brexit.




Presumably we can have ammonium suphamate and sodium chlorate back at
the same time?

On 02/02/2017 12:09, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-02, John Rumm wrote:

[28 lines snipped]

I did inset paving across my lawn - compacted sub base and then slabs
laid on a weak mix of blinding (sharp sand and cement - buy just laid
damp and allowed to "crisp"). Generally has worked well apart from where
I have hit them with the ride on mower (although on the bright side, it
allows the slab to shift in preference to ripping the deck off the
bottom of the mower!)

I found that they slowly submerged into the lawn. Every couple of years I
had to dig the slabs up and add more sand ...

I have the reverse problem... the slabs stay put height wise (the sub
based is probably 100 - 150mm thick well compacted type 1 MoT, and the
inclusion of the cement in the screeding sand stops that migrating.
However our clay soil results in shrinkage when it gets very dry so the
effective level of the slab rises and the ground around it drops away a
bit. Which on a number of occasions has resulted in the edge catching
the bottom of the mower deck causing one to come to a very abrupt halt!

I don't want to set the slabs any lower since they are right at the
level where water sits in the winter when the ground gets waterlogged.
So I need to build up the lawn height a bit either side... I suspect
that spreading a thin layer of compost on the grass ever so often may do
it in time.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 02/02/2017 11:07, Brian Gaff wrote:

I would go for edging as no matter what you may think the lawn particularly
will get established at the first join between slabs and start to move them
about with the roots.
Brian

Never found that to be a problem. You always get some grass and weeds
growing in the cracks between flags. The only thing is that the lawn
will gradually spread out over the edges but an edging tool (or at a
push a spade) will sort that out once ever year or so.

I edge lawn to flower border transitions as they really will get out of
hand if the grass is free to colonise open soil.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 2 Feb 2017 09:08:33 +0000, Jeff Layman wrote:

We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no spot
bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or 5%, and
used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look at
the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for it
if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen
reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate from
the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is too thick;
why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable. The builder
has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half and using those
on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side of the slab showing.

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

All of mine. Does need some maintenance, as others say, but my main priority
is to be able to mow over the parh without encountering concrete!
Bullnose kerb could be hand - one path was OK until the resident mole went
to and fro, bring out a lot of sand.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

Jeff Layman wrote:
We are having a fair amount of garden path paving laid to replace old
and cracked paving which was laid straight onto the soil! It will be
done with 600 mm x 600 mm slabs (concrete) laid as a double width on a
proper base - compacted 100 mm MOT 1 with a strong, full-width (no
spot bedding!) mortar mix. It is on a natural slope of around 4 or
5%, and used for foot traffic only.

The builder has asked what edging I want between the paving and flower
beds or lawn. But I am inclined to have none at all. I've had a look
at the Marshalls brochure and http://www.pavingexpert.com/edging07.htm
webpage, but none of it appeals, and I really can't see the need for
it if the path paving has been constructed properly. Of the half-dozen
reasons given in the Introduction on The Paving Expert page, only one
might apply - "To allow garden soil and/or turf to be kept separate
from the paving". I think my main objection is that most of it is
too thick; why is the standard 50 mm? Half that would be reasonable.
The builder has suggested cutting some of the paving stones in half
and using those on edge, but that would leave the "unfinished" side
of the slab showing.
Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

The main reason (and I can't imagine paving expert hasn't listed it) is that
the path will split in the centre and move away into the garden. The central
joint between the two slabs will widen over a couple of years and fill with
weeds/debris. The edging is there as a restraint. As someone else has
mentioned, you don't have to have it, it can be flaunched with concrete and
left 10-15mm short of the top, this can then have a smattering of soil over
it but the slabs will be supported sideways

In message , Jeff Layman
writes

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

Our front garden path runs between lawns without edging and yes, the
grass does slowly encroach. However, the ease of running the mower
straight over the path outweighs the disadvantage. I use an old
fashioned lawn edger once a year, to keep it tidy.
--
Graeme

On 02/02/17 09:08, Jeff Layman wrote:

(snip - see my OP for details)

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

Many thanks for all the replies. Much food for thought!.

--

Jeff

On 02/02/2017 22:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 02/02/17 09:08, Jeff Layman wrote:

(snip - see my OP for details)

Any views? Anyone had paving laid without edging?

Many thanks for all the replies. Much food for thought!.


No edging generally works well with hover mowers, but the grass creeps
with insufficient height for the mower to catch it. Hands and knees with
shears once a year

On 02/02/2017 14:35, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/02/17 14:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/17 13:48, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-02, fred wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:
On 02/02/17 12:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
en a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix
would
have worked without.


Opps, my snipping ability is failing. Sorry for the extra bytes...

--
Adrian C

A controlled spray of Roundup ...

Stock up. You may not be able to get it much longer.


At least we can lobby MPs to get the ban rescinded post Brexit.




Presumably we can have ammonium suphamate and sodium chlorate back at
the same time?

Since the plan seems to be adopt all the disappearing EU law into UK
law as a job lot as a starting point to begin with, and then work out
the details later, you can probably guess the likelihood of that ;-)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 03/02/17 10:55, John Rumm wrote:
On 02/02/2017 14:35, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/02/17 14:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/02/17 13:48, Huge wrote:
On 2017-02-02, fred wrote:
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:
On 02/02/17 12:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
en a great move on both sides to stop both
material and slab leaving, but probably a proper 'sticky' base mix
would
have worked without.


Opps, my snipping ability is failing. Sorry for the extra bytes...

--
Adrian C

A controlled spray of Roundup ...

Stock up. You may not be able to get it much longer.


At least we can lobby MPs to get the ban rescinded post Brexit.




Presumably we can have ammonium suphamate and sodium chlorate back at
the same time?

Since the plan seems to be adopt all the disappearing EU law into UK
law as a job lot as a starting point to begin with, and then work out
the details later, you can probably guess the likelihood of that ;-)


In fact its quite high. The world is divi9ded into a few people who are
making money out of selling innefective alternatives, and few more whose
income has dropped radically because the alternatives don't work, and
the vast majority who neither know nor care, as they live in little
boxes in suburbia.

Any government would balance the lower cost of locally produced food
against an agrochemical lobby.

With Green being about as popular as a wet fart, its unlikely anyone
would go along with it on THOSE grounds, and I suspect the bill would,
if introduced, pass without a murmur.

Once bureaucrats get the idea their jobs are secure if they are looking
for laws to REPEAL, they get repealed.

Simples!


--
€œit should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism
(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalins Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.€�

Vaclav Klaus