I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept 2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received
it as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I
wrote advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter
closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising
the appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay
£10, otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 15:19:46 +0000, rick
wrote:

I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept 2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received
it as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I
wrote advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter
closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising
the appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay
£10, otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?


You may get more authoritative replies in uk.legal.moderated

In article ,
rick wrote:
My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.

Was it a council etc car park or a private one?

If a private one tell them to go stuff themselves.

I failed to get my parking authorised at a Lidl - where the checkout asked
for your car number and entered it. Except on this occasion they didn't.
I'd paid for the shopping by credit card so had proof I'd shopped there at
the time in question.

The car park operator sent me a penalty notice. I emailed back explaining
things. They wanted me to send them the till receipt - not a copy.

I told them to get lost and ignored any subsequent posts.

And, of course, they gave up.

If it is run for the council, they *might* have more powers. And may take
you to court many many miles away. If you don't attend, send in the
bailiffs.

--
*How's my driving? Call 999*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"rick" wrote in message
news
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ... it
was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3 separate
pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before expiration
times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

by "not correct way up" do you mean "face down" or simply that the printing
was visible but upside down.

My view is, I paid correct fee,

The parking company will (if they intend to follow up) have taken a photo of
your car with the errant ticket not displayed properly

A face down ticket could easily be out of time, this is not proof that you
have validly paid

That you now have a ticket could have easily come into you possession by
picking up a ticket discarded by a leaving motorist, it is not proof that
you paid

This is a civil case, It will be decide on balance of probability, not
beyond reasonable doubt

the judge will be asked to decide. "Is it more likely that you paid, or
that you used subterfuge to avoid paying?"

Whilst you know that you are an honest person, the judge does not. And an
awful lot of people who have turned up before him on parking "charges" in
the past, will have been pulling a fast one. He will be habituated to that.

Do you feel lucky!

parked correctly, returned within allotted time,

The evidence to that is not overwhelming, it is circumstantial.

therefore they have suffered no material loss.

This legal argument has been tried many times before,. It has now been
considered all the way to the SC and was lost.

If the company can show (on Balance of Probability) that you didn't pay,
they are entitled to their "fine" provided it is set at a reasonable level
(which It seems to be)

I have made no financial gain.

Irrelevant, this is a no fault "offence".

However, anecdotal evidence suggest that the parking company will take this
no further if you don't pay

HTH

tim

On 26/01/17 15:19, rick wrote:


My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?


Use a free robot lawyer?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36650317

http://www.donotpay.co.uk

--
Adrian C

On 26/01/17 15:19, rick wrote:
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept 2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received
it as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I
wrote advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter
closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising
the appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay
£10, otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?


Take it to the parking appeals body (Google it and uk.l.m had a thread
recently).

Someone won an appeal on exactly this scenario (upside down ticket).

On 26/01/17 16:00, tim... wrote:


"rick" wrote in message
news
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was
not correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid
ticket.

by "not correct way up" do you mean "face down" or simply that the
printing was visible but upside down.

My view is, I paid correct fee,

The parking company will (if they intend to follow up) have taken a
photo of your car with the errant ticket not displayed properly

A face down ticket could easily be out of time, this is not proof that
you have validly paid

That you now have a ticket could have easily come into you possession by
picking up a ticket discarded by a leaving motorist, it is not proof
that you paid

This is a civil case, It will be decide on balance of probability, not
beyond reasonable doubt

the judge will be asked to decide. "Is it more likely that you paid, or
that you used subterfuge to avoid paying?"

Whilst you know that you are an honest person, the judge does not. And
an awful lot of people who have turned up before him on parking
"charges" in the past, will have been pulling a fast one. He will be
habituated to that.

Do you feel lucky!

parked correctly, returned within allotted time,

The evidence to that is not overwhelming, it is circumstantial.

therefore they have suffered no material loss.

This legal argument has been tried many times before,. It has now been
considered all the way to the SC and was lost.

If the company can show (on Balance of Probability) that you didn't pay,
they are entitled to their "fine" provided it is set at a reasonable
level (which It seems to be)

I have made no financial gain.

Irrelevant, this is a no fault "offence".

However, anecdotal evidence suggest that the parking company will take
this no further if you don't pay

HTH

tim



And the case to which I alluded in my other thread was won on appeal (to
the appeals body, not a court IIRC) on the basis that she had paid for
the correct ticket and displayed the ticket.

There were no posted instruction in the carpark as to which orientation
the ticket must be displayed.

On 26/01/17 15:19, rick wrote:
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept 2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received
it as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I
wrote advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter
closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising
the appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay
£10, otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?


I got out of almost the same because they changed the charge from
'failure to pay' to 'failure to display correctly'

Otherwise largely the penalty is for failure to display correctly, and
that's how they make most of their money.

I wish I had appealed the pre printed ticket that was for 'parking in a
prescribed place'

The Lefty****s at Cambnridge Town Council don't know the difference
between 'prescribed' and 'proscribed'....

If you don't know What The Big Words Mean, or Cant Be Arsed to Spell
Them, tough ****...


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 26/01/17 16:00, tim... wrote:


"rick" wrote in message
news
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was
not correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid
ticket.

by "not correct way up" do you mean "face down" or simply that the
printing was visible but upside down.

My view is, I paid correct fee,

The parking company will (if they intend to follow up) have taken a
photo of your car with the errant ticket not displayed properly

A face down ticket could easily be out of time, this is not proof that
you have validly paid

That you now have a ticket could have easily come into you possession by
picking up a ticket discarded by a leaving motorist, it is not proof
that you paid

This is a civil case, It will be decide on balance of probability, not
beyond reasonable doubt

the judge will be asked to decide. "Is it more likely that you paid, or
that you used subterfuge to avoid paying?"

Whilst you know that you are an honest person, the judge does not. And
an awful lot of people who have turned up before him on parking
"charges" in the past, will have been pulling a fast one. He will be
habituated to that.

Do you feel lucky!

parked correctly, returned within allotted time,

The evidence to that is not overwhelming, it is circumstantial.

therefore they have suffered no material loss.

This legal argument has been tried many times before,. It has now been
considered all the way to the SC and was lost.

If the company can show (on Balance of Probability) that you didn't pay,
they are entitled to their "fine" provided it is set at a reasonable
level (which It seems to be)

I have made no financial gain.

Irrelevant, this is a no fault "offence".

However, anecdotal evidence suggest that the parking company will take
this no further if you don't pay

HTH

tim


Complete crap. The company only has to show that you didn't display
correctly.

The penalty is not for failure to pay, its for failure to display
(correctly)

--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

"rick" wrote in message
news
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ... it
was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3 separate
pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before expiration
times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept
2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received it
as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I wrote
advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising the
appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay £10,
otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within allotted
time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?


i stuck mine the wrong way around and the nice council wummin let me off
after I sent it to them ......

I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"rick" wrote in message
news
I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ... it
was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3 separate
pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before expiration
times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept
2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received it
as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I wrote
advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising the
appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay £10,
otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within allotted
time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such
twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.

the actual evidence of court results suggest you are wrong

tim

On 26-Jan-17 3:38 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
rick wrote:
My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.

Was it a council etc car park or a private one?

If a private one tell them to go stuff themselves.

I failed to get my parking authorised at a Lidl - where the checkout asked
for your car number and entered it. Except on this occasion they didn't.
I'd paid for the shopping by credit card so had proof I'd shopped there at
the time in question.

The car park operator sent me a penalty notice. I emailed back explaining
things. They wanted me to send them the till receipt - not a copy.

I told them to get lost and ignored any subsequent posts.

And, of course, they gave up....

Was that before the November 2015 Supreme Court judgement in the case of
Beavis v ParkingEye? Since that, car park penalty clauses have been
enforceable in law.


--
--

Colin Bignell

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news

I wish I had appealed the pre printed ticket that was for 'parking in a prescribed
place'

The Lefty****s at Cambnridge Town Council don't know the difference between
'prescribed' and 'proscribed'....

If you don't know What The Big Words Mean, or Cant Be Arsed to Spell Them, tough
****...

In this instance, the Council are perfectly correct.

You parked in a "prescribed" *place, a designated Car Park where people
are directed to park their cars , without fulfilling the necessary conditions.
In this instance by not displaying your ticket the right way up.

Had you parked in a "proscribed" ** place, you would have parked in a
place where parking in forbidden at all times.

HTH

* Prescribe Write or lay down as a rule or direction; impose authoritatively; appoint,
lay down rules.

** Proscribe Reject, condemn, denounce (esp. a practice) as unwanted or dangerous;
prohibit. E17.

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by almost 5
months !

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 15:19:46 +0000, rick
wrote:

I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept 2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received
it as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I
wrote advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter
closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising
the appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay
£10, otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?

Depends. If the ticket was upside down so the attendent had to turn
his head to read it then I have every sympethy and you have not
violated any condition of use.

I suspect however, that you put the ticket-face down on the dash.
Clearly they are going to treat that as failiure to display. What else
would you expect?

If they are indeed just going to charge a nominal £10 for doing that,
I would pay up while the offer stands.


--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 26-Jan-17 5:35 PM, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.

The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise.



--
--

Colin Bignell

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.





--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

On 26/01/2017 15:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
rick wrote:
My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.

Was it a council etc car park or a private one?


I'll find out - why does it make a difference

On 26/01/2017 19:51, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.





It was on the dash but upside down

I have the ticket so proof that I had paid.

Is it fair & reasonable that I should pay a £10 charge for putting it
upside down.
They also took such a long time to reply, even exceeding their own
advised response time by 5 months ... which seems unfair & unreasonable.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 20:21:34 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 19:51, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.





It was on the dash but upside down

I have the ticket so proof that I had paid.

Is it fair & reasonable that I should pay a £10 charge for putting it
upside down.
They also took such a long time to reply, even exceeding their own
advised response time by 5 months ... which seems unfair & unreasonable.


FFS Rick, was it
A) face down so the attendant could not possibly see the expiry date &
time
or
B) upside-down so the attendant could see the date & time albeit
upside down.

A or B




--

Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham. Wrote in message:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 20:21:34 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 19:51, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.





It was on the dash but upside down

I have the ticket so proof that I had paid.

Is it fair & reasonable that I should pay a £10 charge for putting it
upside down.
They also took such a long time to reply, even exceeding their own
advised response time by 5 months ... which seems unfair & unreasonable.


FFS Rick, was it
A) face down so the attendant could not possibly see the expiry date &
time
or
B) upside-down so the attendant could see the date & time albeit
upside down.

A or B

FFS indeed :-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 26/01/2017 20:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 19:51, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such
twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of
parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in
fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by
almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.

It was on the dash but upside down

Whether it's upside down depends where you are looking at it from.
Through the driver's door window? Or through the windscreen? Through
one of these, it will be upside down no matter how you orient it.


He means face down so it was unreadable but doesn't want to say so.

There was a similar argument on local radio a few months ago and it was
a while before the caller admitted he put it face down.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 26/01/2017 20:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 19:51, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such
twaddle.
If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of
parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in
fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by
almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.

It was on the dash but upside down

Whether it's upside down depends where you are looking at it from.
Through the driver's door window? Or through the windscreen? Through
one of these, it will be upside down no matter how you orient it.


He means face down so it was unreadable but doesn't want to say so.

If that is the case, he doesnt have a leg to stand on and should pay the
fine.

There was a similar argument on local radio a few months ago and it was a
while before the caller admitted he put it face down.

rick wrote:

On 26/01/2017 19:51, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 19:38:41 +0000, rick
wrote:

On 26/01/2017 17:35, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd just ignore them but keep the ticket. I've never heard of such
twaddle. If its private and ythey took you to court they would lose.
Brian


I paid for the ticket so they had no loss of revenue, no loss of parking
space, so on a fairness position they had what was due.

I will stick with not paying ..... they put in writing that they would
respond on my appeal against charge by 2 Sept 2016 and did not in fact
reply until 25 Jan 2017


They state that you are required to respond to them within 7 days, yet
themselves set a 2 month target and then fail to meet it ... by almost 5
months !

Rick, you still haven't told us if the ticket was face down or merely
upside down from the attendants POV.

If former, they are doing you a favour by reducing the charge to £10
and you would be a fool not to pay it.





It was on the dash but upside down

I have the ticket so proof that I had paid.

Is it fair & reasonable that I should pay a £10 charge for putting it
upside down.
They also took such a long time to reply, even exceeding their own
advised response time by 5 months ... which seems unfair & unreasonable.

The delay did not harm you - indeed it delayed when you had to pay.

You still do not seem to realise that "upside down" is completely
ambiguous.

From their POV if you turned up with the receipt only after you got the
parking ticket they have no reason to be convinced that you had paid the
parking fee, people often try to find a discarded ticket after they are
caught. I realise this does not apply to you, but you have to look at
it from their point of view.

You may win, but if you lose a court case it will be much more
expensive, I strongly advise paying the 10GBP.




--

Roger Hayter

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:11:07 +0000, (Roger Hayter)
wrote:

snip

You still do not seem to realise that "upside down" is completely
ambiguous.

I'm, not sure where all the confusion is coming from here? In his
first post, rick wrote:

"Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ..."

Therefore, for it to be a real issue (to the Parking Attendant) it
would have to have been placed (as we later learned) 'face down', not
simply 'upside down' re for reading by an attendant though say the
windscreen. Even if it was both the right way up and not upside down
it would still have been at 90 Deg if read though either side window
or upside down when read though the rear window ... or sunroof when
standing on the bonnet. ;-)

So, rick was fined because it was impossible for the attendant to be
sure he had a valid ticket so even though obviously frustrating, was a
valid outcome (IMHO).

In just the same way a new neighbour had all their bins left
un-emptied by the dustman because whilst they had put the correct
things in the recycling bins, they had just mixed them all up within
each bin and therefore were considered 'contaminated'.

As an aside and as an example of what was considered to be a genuine
parking mistake ... I got a parking ticket for not displaying a free
ticket after they had changed a scheme that hadn't required a ticket
previously. I noted (afterwards) that not only had they just updated
the original 'Max say 1hr / no returns' sign to include the use of a
ticket but had *themselves* added an additional A4 laminated sign tied
to a lamp post because so many people had missed the fact that the
information on the sign had changed! My local councilor took it up
with the guy in charge of such matters and my fine was dropped. It
turned out that later everyone who had been fined over the same period
had their fines refunded (because they conceded their sineage was
insufficient for the regular users to easily notice the change).

My point was ... as I had been parking there for over 40 years it
wasn't 'reasonable' to expect me to read the small print on the sign
every time I parked there to see if it had changed (so at worse a
notice should have been left under my wiper highlighting the change of
use on my first 'offence').

Cheers, T i m

En el artículo , rick rick_hughes@_remove_
btconnect.com escribió:

Comments ?

Your mistake was interacting with them. You should have ignored it, and
you wouldn't have heard anything more. By contacting them you
acknowledged that you'd received the "charge" and were liable for it.

In your shoes I would keep schtum, ignore all letters and if they do
take you to court (very, very unlikely) just produce the ticket as proof
that you paid.

What's this got to do with DIY anyway? You've got uk.legal and
uk.legal.moderated available.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 26/01/2017 19:44, Graham. wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 15:19:46 +0000, rick
wrote:

I know you guys love parking fines.

July last year parked in one of the car parks run by Excel Parking ...
it was a horrendous day weather wise, and I got soaked walking to 3
separate pay & display machines as first 2 were out of use.

Bought a ticket put it on my dashboard ... returned well before
expiration times to find big yellow sticker on window ... for parking
violation.
Along with a 'Parking Charge Notice" for £70

I took my pay & display ticket to the 'operator' he advised it was not
correct way up on the dash, therefore I had not displayed a valid ticket.

The ticket said I had 7 days to appeal .... I sent off proof of ticket,
and that it was only the awful weather that had caused me to put it on
dash upside down - wind was blowing a gale, and it was lashing it down.
Explained the fee had been correctly paid and I could prove that - with
the copy of ticket sent to them.

They responded ... "we expect to let you have our decision by 02 Sept 2016"

No response .. so Mid Sept emailed again .. I have proof they received
it as auto acknowledgement received - no response at end of Sept., I
wrote advising if I heard nothing within 7 days I consider the matter
closed.

Today 196 days after the parking notice issued they responded advising
the appeal had been rejected, I can however cancel the charge if I pay
£10, otherwise it increases to £100 in 7 days.



My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.


Comments ?

Depends. If the ticket was upside down so the attendent had to turn
his head to read it then I have every sympethy and you have not
violated any condition of use.

I suspect however, that you put the ticket-face down on the dash.
Clearly they are going to treat that as failiure to display. What else
would you expect?

If they are indeed just going to charge a nominal £10 for doing that,
I would pay up while the offer stands.


Pay the £10. Face down is unreasonable on your part. Get over it

On 26-Jan-17 8:16 PM, rick wrote:
On 26/01/2017 15:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
rick wrote:
My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.

Was it a council etc car park or a private one?


I'll find out - why does it make a difference

It doesn't these days, but until a Supreme Court ruling in November
2015, it was generally held that private parking company penalty fees
were not enforceable in law.



--
--

Colin Bignell

On 26-Jan-17 11:04 PM, T i m wrote:
....
My point was ... as I had been parking there for over 40 years it
wasn't 'reasonable' to expect me to read the small print on the sign
every time I parked there to see if it had changed (so at worse a
notice should have been left under my wiper highlighting the change of
use on my first 'offence').

A car park I have been using for years allows three hours' free parking
but does not have any provision to extend that by paying. It used to be
regulated by placing a parking clock on the dashboard and having a
parking warden going around checking them. Very recently, it was changed
to ANPR and now the warden is going around putting notices on the
windscreen of anybody still displaying the clock, telling them they no
longer need to use the clocks. Completely unnecessary, but helpful.


--
--

Colin Bignell

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
Whether it's upside down depends where you are looking at it from.
Through the driver's door window? Or through the windscreen? Through
one of these, it will be upside down no matter how you orient it.


He means face down so it was unreadable but doesn't want to say so.

Totally different matter, indeed.

--
*We never really grow*up, we only learn how to act in public.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 10:09:53 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

On 26-Jan-17 11:04 PM, T i m wrote:
...
My point was ... as I had been parking there for over 40 years it
wasn't 'reasonable' to expect me to read the small print on the sign
every time I parked there to see if it had changed (so at worse a
notice should have been left under my wiper highlighting the change of
use on my first 'offence').

A car park I have been using for years allows three hours' free parking
but does not have any provision to extend that by paying. It used to be
regulated by placing a parking clock on the dashboard and having a
parking warden going around checking them. Very recently, it was changed
to ANPR and now the warden is going around putting notices on the
windscreen of anybody still displaying the clock, telling them they no
longer need to use the clocks. Completely unnecessary, but helpful.

It is a passive aggressive hint that fiddling the clock will no longer
work.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 27 Jan 2017 10:09:53 +0000, Nightjar
wrote:

On 26-Jan-17 11:04 PM, T i m wrote:
...
My point was ... as I had been parking there for over 40 years it
wasn't 'reasonable' to expect me to read the small print on the sign
every time I parked there to see if it had changed (so at worse a
notice should have been left under my wiper highlighting the change of
use on my first 'offence').

A car park I have been using for years allows three hours' free parking
but does not have any provision to extend that by paying. It used to be
regulated by placing a parking clock on the dashboard and having a
parking warden going around checking them. Very recently, it was changed
to ANPR and now the warden is going around putting notices on the
windscreen of anybody still displaying the clock, telling them they no
longer need to use the clocks. Completely unnecessary, but helpful.

And that's the point (the helpfully bit) because I believe 'most
people' what to do the right thing and would also like to think / hop
that some discretion could come into it.

Like whilst I understand that if you have paid for an hours parking
you only get an hours parking ... but if you gave 'some people' some
leeway (say those running back to their cars and who obviously realise
they may have overrun their time and apologising to the warden etc)
there are always those who will take a mile when you give them an
inch.

I know of a couple of people (I'll not call them friends) who think
nothing of parking all over the place (inc disabled / parent & child
bays) because they think their time is more important than following
the rules and / or being a 'good citizen'. It's as if we (who
generally play it by the book) are weak / stupid for doing so?

And we can all make mistakes. Daughter, pulling into an unknown to her
mini supermarket drive ended up going in what was an exit but made a
point of quickly getting out of the way by pulling into a space. A
bloke came round, parked, came over and stuck his face in her van
window going on about her trying to push in etc etc. He walked off but
not being one to let such things go, she caught up with him and asked
if he wouldn't mind hearing her side of what just went on. I think he
was a bit taken aback that she had confronted 'him' so said 'ok' and
actually listened. Once that she explained that it was just a mistake,
that she had no intention of 'pushing in' and in fact was just trying
to get out of everyone's way to minimise the impact of her mistake, he
was ok.

The trouble is, he (and others) probably have to regularly put up with
those who are and meaningfully trying to push in / take advantage of
others (and partly why she wanted to set the record straight in her
case etc).

It can take quite a bit of common sense, good judgemental and the
right attitude to avoid the likes of road rage in today's traffic and
seemingly 'anything goes' driving. eg, has someone just undertaken you
to intentionally get in front of you or just done so to clear a
junction etc.

Cheers, T i m

Huge wrote:

It appears you may have placed the ticket face down and rendered it unreadable,
in which case

They'll probably have a photo of it being unreadable.

STFU and pay up.

If it was face down, rather than upside down, then yes.

"Nightjar" wrote in message
...
On 26-Jan-17 3:38 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
rick wrote:
My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.

Was it a council etc car park or a private one?

If a private one tell them to go stuff themselves.

I failed to get my parking authorised at a Lidl - where the checkout
asked
for your car number and entered it. Except on this occasion they didn't.
I'd paid for the shopping by credit card so had proof I'd shopped there
at
the time in question.

The car park operator sent me a penalty notice. I emailed back explaining
things. They wanted me to send them the till receipt - not a copy.

I told them to get lost and ignored any subsequent posts.

And, of course, they gave up....

Was that before the November 2015 Supreme Court judgement in the case of
Beavis v ParkingEye? Since that, car park penalty clauses have been
enforceable in law.

they always were

the judgment didn't change that

tim

"Nightjar" wrote in message
news
On 26-Jan-17 8:16 PM, rick wrote:
On 26/01/2017 15:38, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
rick wrote:
My view is, I paid correct fee, parked correctly, returned within
allotted time, therefore they have suffered no material loss.
I have made no financial gain.

Was it a council etc car park or a private one?


I'll find out - why does it make a difference

It doesn't these days, but until a Supreme Court ruling in November 2015,
it was generally held that private parking company penalty fees were not
enforceable in law.

No it wasn't

It was an urban myth that they weren't enforceable in law

tim

On 26/01/2017 20:47, Graham. wrote:

FFS Rick, was it
A) face down so the attendant could not possibly see the expiry date &
time
or
B) upside-down so the attendant could see the date & time albeit
upside down.

A or B

I have already confirmed elsewhere in thread, sorry if you missed it -
it was face down ... A

On 26/01/2017 21:24, dennis@home wrote:

He means face down so it was unreadable but doesn't want to say so.

There was a similar argument on local radio a few months ago and it was
a while before the caller admitted he put it face down.



I don't mind saying it - it was upside down facedown, back of ticket
facing up not front of ticket

rick wrote:

I don't mind saying it - it was upside down facedown, back of ticket
facing up not front of ticket

A tenner's not such a bad deal in the circumstances ...

"rick" wrote in message
news
On 26/01/2017 20:47, Graham. wrote:

FFS Rick, was it
A) face down so the attendant could not possibly see the expiry date &
time
or
B) upside-down so the attendant could see the date & time albeit
upside down.

A or B

I have already confirmed elsewhere in thread, sorry if you missed it - it
was face down ... A

No you haven't - this is the first time you've said "face down".
--
Dave W