A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry

Harold Davis wrote:

A builder wants me to supply all materials

Could be he's doing it to stay under the VAT threshold, or it could be
he has cashflow or credit issues.

On 25/01/17 21:23, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry


Yes, it means he's being "creative" with his accounting.

Fire him and get a proper roofer.

I said roofer, not builder.

Builders should not be trusted with roofs.

jim k wrote in news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me VAT,
so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing maybe 5
roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a valley
elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof garage when
he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole house
(4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and carport (clean
and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

The way he said on leaving after looking at the job that he was sorry
he'd been the bearer of bad news also made me think "like yeah, right -
you think I might be a complete moron, don't you?".

Does anyone think I should do anything other than bin his offer?

Harry

jim k wrote in :

Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
jim k wrote in
news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me
VAT, so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following
work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing
maybe 5 roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a
valley elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof
garage when he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole
house (4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and
carport (clean and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

The way he said on leaving after looking at the job that he was sorry
he'd been the bearer of bad news also made me think "like yeah, right
- you think I might be a complete moron, don't you?".

Does anyone think I should do anything other than bin his offer?

Trading standards :-)

Are you saying he sounds so dodgy that Trading Standards would appreciate
it if I reported him?

(I probably wouldn't. I live on the Isle of Lewis and could get
ostracised! ).

On 1/25/2017 9:31 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 25/01/17 21:23, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry


Yes, it means he's being "creative" with his accounting.

Fire him and get a proper roofer.

I said roofer, not builder.

Builders should not be trusted with roofs.

I don't *much* like the sound of it, but have you seen other examples of
his work, or have any recommendations from someone who has used him? If
it is mainly replacing bargeboards and some simple roofing repairs then
a builder *might* be OK. But if a skip is needed, sounds like a lot of
work, you should certainly be getting at least three quotes unless you
have other good reasons to trust him.

newshound wrote in news:Gfudnai8JL-
:

On 1/25/2017 9:31 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 25/01/17 21:23, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry


Yes, it means he's being "creative" with his accounting.

Fire him and get a proper roofer.

I said roofer, not builder.

Builders should not be trusted with roofs.

I don't *much* like the sound of it, but have you seen other examples
of
his work, or have any recommendations from someone who has used him? If
it is mainly replacing bargeboards and some simple roofing repairs then
a builder *might* be OK. But if a skip is needed, sounds like a lot of
work, you should certainly be getting at least three quotes unless you
have other good reasons to trust him.

Nope, I haven't seen any other examples or had any recommendations. I'm
waiting on another quote. A couple of firms came, promised quotes, then I
heard no more from them. It's not easy to find tradesmen on this island,
especially given that I'm an incomer.

I'm not sure whether the roof repairs count as simple or not. I think
they do. I've described them in another post.

The UPVC job is replacing the full works: soffits, fascia boards,
bargeboards.

The waste would be say 5 roof tiles, the old cope, the existing timber
eaves, guttering if it breaks, and a foot of felt around the roof of the
garage and carport that they have to remove because it will split when
the replace the timber fascias there (if that is the right word).

I tend to think that if a tradesman needs a skip he should sort one out
and charge me, rather than expecting me to get one.

On 1/25/2017 9:53 PM, Harold Davis wrote:
jim k wrote in news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me VAT,
so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing maybe 5
roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a valley
elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof garage when
he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole house
(4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and carport (clean
and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

Sounds like a lot more than a week to me, with all that timber
replacement if it is being done properly (and not just slapping PVC
cladding on top of existing timber). No mention of scaffolding, so just
a tower and/or ladders?


The way he said on leaving after looking at the job that he was sorry
he'd been the bearer of bad news also made me think "like yeah, right -
you think I might be a complete moron, don't you?".

Does anyone think I should do anything other than bin his offer?

Harry

Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry


Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you vat)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
jim k wrote in news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me VAT,
so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing maybe 5
roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a valley
elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof garage when
he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole house
(4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and carport (clean
and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

The way he said on leaving after looking at the job that he was sorry
he'd been the bearer of bad news also made me think "like yeah, right -
you think I might be a complete moron, don't you?".

Does anyone think I should do anything other than bin his offer?

Harry


Trading standards :-)
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

newshound wrote in
o.uk:

On 1/25/2017 9:53 PM, Harold Davis wrote:
jim k wrote in
news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me
VAT, so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following
work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing
maybe 5 roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a
valley elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof
garage when he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole
house (4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and
carport (clean and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

Sounds like a lot more than a week to me, with all that timber
replacement if it is being done properly (and not just slapping PVC
cladding on top of existing timber). No mention of scaffolding, so
just a tower and/or ladders?

It's a full replacement job, not overboarding. He didn't mention
scaffolding, but I'm not sure how the cope can be cast in situ. The
property is a bungalow. How many days' work does it sound like to you?

Harry

Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
jim k wrote in :

Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
jim k wrote in
news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me
VAT, so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following
work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing
maybe 5 roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a
valley elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof
garage when he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole
house (4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and
carport (clean and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

The way he said on leaving after looking at the job that he was sorry
he'd been the bearer of bad news also made me think "like yeah, right
- you think I might be a complete moron, don't you?".

Does anyone think I should do anything other than bin his offer?

Trading standards :-)

Are you saying he sounds so dodgy that Trading Standards would appreciate
it if I reported him?

(I probably wouldn't. I live on the Isle of Lewis and could get
ostracised! ).



Being kind & without all detail it sounds like he doesn't want the
work.

16 of those priced jobs would get him to the vat threshold for
what sounds like a total of say 4 months work...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On 25/01/2017 23:06, Harold Davis wrote:
newshound wrote in
o.uk:

On 1/25/2017 9:53 PM, Harold Davis wrote:
jim k wrote in
news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me
VAT, so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following
work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing
maybe 5 roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a
valley elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof
garage when he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole
house (4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and
carport (clean and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

Sounds like a lot more than a week to me, with all that timber
replacement if it is being done properly (and not just slapping PVC
cladding on top of existing timber). No mention of scaffolding, so
just a tower and/or ladders?

It's a full replacement job, not overboarding. He didn't mention
scaffolding, but I'm not sure how the cope can be cast in situ. The
property is a bungalow. How many days' work does it sound like to you?

Properly replacing facia boards can turn into a nightmare job depending
on how things are fixed. That bit of the job alone could turn into two
to three man weeks worth of work if it does not go to plan. It often
easier to over estimate and then if it turns out to be straight forward,
bill less. Customers will be far more agreeable to that than the other
way around.

Case in point; a mate of mine (retired builder) was asked to do a facia
job for a friend of a friend. He only took it on as a favour and was not
really interested in making money at it - just covering costs and having
something to keep him busy between rounds of golf and snooker etc.

He estimated it would take him a day and a half to two days (this was to
replace some facia above a bay window and repaint). Knowing his tendency
to wildly underestimate jobs - I priced it up and suggested that he
quote on the basis of it taking 4 to 5 days - with materials on top -
not included in the price.

In the end it took nearer 7 days. What you could not see when looking
at the job was that the soffit and facia had few of the expected timbers
in place to support anything, so when you tried to remove the facia,
rather than having the soffit sat in a rebate in the back of the facia
so it could be removed independently, it was nailed to a batten fixed to
the back of the facia. Net result was that the asbestolux soffit broke
up as you attempted to get the fascia off. It also turned out there was
no proper felting under the bottom rows of tiles on the eves (hence why
the facia was getting soaked on the top and back and rotting). So by the
time he had stripped some tiles, refelted, retiled, added extra woodwork
to fix to, made up the new facia boards (customer wanted real timber),
and then bought and cut in new ply soffits all around the bay, and then
finally primed, undercoated and painted the lot, he was well fed up with
the whole job and vowing "never again!"




--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 25/01/17 21:23, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry



I don't see any reason to be suspicious. It might be a bit
unprofessional. I have come across builders who just want to be paid a
fair rate and work hard without any hassle. Totally honest and not
particularly businesslike.

If you pay someone a rate and buy the materials then you are in a very
different arrangement with them to a contractor who you pay for the job.
That is worth thinking about - remedial work, liability, responsibility,
insurance, it's all going to be effected.

Tim w

I'd not go with this, as if you supply stuff and it is no good then he can
blame what you bought. Does he guarantee the job in its entirety, is his
insurance underwritten by a company you have heard of? If so then check it
out and see if it actually exists. also see how long he has traded under
that name. If you are really sus, then see who directors are and search for
other companies, now wound up they have been involved in. a common thing for
cowboys is to close down and reopen as another company when complaints
start to come in, voiding any insurance in the process.
Ask to see other jobs they have done and actually follow them up. A roof is
very important and one cannot afford mistakes. of course things can and do
go wrong, but if the people are OK they know the issues and can sort them
out quickly.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Harold Davis" wrote in message
...
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip
is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:00:37 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
(I probably wouldn't. I live on the Isle of Lewis and could get
ostracised! ).

Or tarred and feathered.

The magic words are "Of course, I do understand that things are a bit more expensive up here than in London" followed by "but the meenister said you'd do a good job at a fair price".

Is that Macleod roofers or Mackay roofers? :-)

Owain

On 26/01/17 00:59, TimW wrote:

If you pay someone a rate and buy the materials then you are in a very
different arrangement with them to a contractor who you pay for the job.
That is worth thinking about - remedial work, liability, responsibility,
insurance, it's all going to be effected.

Tim w

or even affected.


--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
news
I'd not go with this, as if you supply stuff and it is no good then he
can blame what you bought. Does he guarantee the job in its entirety,
is his insurance underwritten by a company you have heard of? If so
then check it out and see if it actually exists. also see how long he
has traded under that name. If you are really sus, then see who
directors are and search for other companies, now wound up they have
been involved in. a common thing for cowboys is to close down and
reopen as another company when complaints start to come in, voiding
any insurance in the process.
Ask to see other jobs they have done and actually follow them up. A
roof is
very important and one cannot afford mistakes. of course things can
and do go wrong, but if the people are OK they know the issues and can
sort them out quickly.
Brian

Hi Brian and thanks for this.

There are no company registration details on the quote, although there is
a trading name and an address.

I am emailing them back asking whether they can

* let me know the full name of the company

* requote so that they will supply materials and any necessary skip - and
asking "do you not have an account with (the UPVC supplier they
mentioned) and a skip supplier?"

* guarantee the whole job including materials

* let me know of some clients willing to recommend them for roof work and
for full replacement of eaves with UPVC

(When they were here, they recommended overboarding saying that replacing
the eaves entirely required recementing around the UPVC, as if that was
very difficult, and I originally asked them to quote for overboarding.
But when I emailed them a short while afterwards and said I had decided
on a full replacement and asked whether they could do that, they said
yes.)

Thanks again.

Harry

Harold Davis wrote in
:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
news
I'd not go with this, as if you supply stuff and it is no good then
he can blame what you bought. Does he guarantee the job in its
entirety, is his insurance underwritten by a company you have heard
of? If so then check it out and see if it actually exists. also see
how long he has traded under that name. If you are really sus, then
see who directors are and search for other companies, now wound up
they have been involved in. a common thing for cowboys is to close
down and reopen as another company when complaints start to come in,
voiding any insurance in the process.
Ask to see other jobs they have done and actually follow them up. A
roof is
very important and one cannot afford mistakes. of course things can
and do go wrong, but if the people are OK they know the issues and
can sort them out quickly.
Brian

Hi Brian and thanks for this.

There are no company registration details on the quote, although there
is a trading name and an address.

I am emailing them back asking whether they can

* let me know the full name of the company

* requote so that they will supply materials and any necessary skip -
and asking "do you not have an account with (the UPVC supplier they
mentioned) and a skip supplier?"

* guarantee the whole job including materials

* let me know of some clients willing to recommend them for roof work
and for full replacement of eaves with UPVC

And whether they can

* let me know how many man hours of labour they are working on the basis
of

Harry

Harold Davis wrote in
:

Harold Davis wrote in
:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
news

(snip)

I am emailing them back asking whether they can

* let me know the full name of the company

or trading entity, and details of its insurer.

One problem is that if they do tell me of some happy clients for whom they
have done similar work, they might be their cousins or something But I
have asked.

Harry

In article , Harold Davis
wrote:
Harold Davis wrote in
:

Harold Davis wrote in
:

"Brian Gaff" wrote in
news

(snip)

I am emailing them back asking whether they can

* let me know the full name of the company

or trading entity, and details of its insurer.

One problem is that if they do tell me of some happy clients for whom
they have done similar work, they might be their cousins or something
But I have asked.


Of course they'll be cousins - evberyboday on Lewis is related in one way
or another.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

wrote in
:

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:00:37 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
(I probably wouldn't. I live on the Isle of Lewis and could get
ostracised! ).

Or tarred and feathered.

The magic words are "Of course, I do understand that things are a bit
more expensive up here than in London" followed by "but the meenister
said you'd do a good job at a fair price".

Is that Macleod roofers or Mackay roofers? :-)

No, someone else.



Harry

On 26/01/17 09:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/17 00:59, TimW wrote:

If you pay someone a rate and buy the materials then you are in a very
different arrangement with them to a contractor who you pay for the job.
That is worth thinking about - remedial work, liability, responsibility,
insurance, it's all going to be effected.

Tim w

or even affected.


He won't want it done with any affectation

In article ,
Harold Davis wrote:
wrote in
:

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:00:37 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
(I probably wouldn't. I live on the Isle of Lewis and could get
ostracised! ).

Or tarred and feathered.

The magic words are "Of course, I do understand that things are a bit
more expensive up here than in London" followed by "but the meenister
said you'd do a good job at a fair price".

Is that Macleod roofers or Mackay roofers? :-)

No, someone else.

A Morrison roofer then?

Suggestion: my only vague contact on the island is the owner of Baile-na-
Ceil at Uig (Richard Gollin). He will have had roofing work done, I'm
sure. Certainly old outbuildings have been converted into bedrooms and will
have needed work done. He might have a recomendation.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

TimW wrote in news
On 26/01/17 09:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 26/01/17 00:59, TimW wrote:

If you pay someone a rate and buy the materials then you are in a
very different arrangement with them to a contractor who you pay for
the job. That is worth thinking about - remedial work, liability,
responsibility, insurance, it's all going to be effected.

Tim w

or even affected.

He won't want it done with any affectation

I would prefer it if they didn't mince up the ladders and call me "ducky",
but that might not be dealbreaker if they can deliver on all the other
criteria.

Harry

charles wrote in
:

In article ,
Harold Davis wrote:
wrote in
:

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 22:00:37 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
(I probably wouldn't. I live on the Isle of Lewis and could get
ostracised! ).

Or tarred and feathered.

The magic words are "Of course, I do understand that things are a
bit more expensive up here than in London" followed by "but the
meenister said you'd do a good job at a fair price".

Is that Macleod roofers or Mackay roofers? :-)

No, someone else.

A Morrison roofer then?

One car repair garage up here expected me to call them every morning for
about five days in a row to find out whether the parts they had ordered
had arrived. If I'd asked them to spend tuppence on calling me when they
were ready for me to bring the car in, I might have found that I had
become the biggest "English b******" out, treating them as though they
were my servants, etc.!

Suggestion: my only vague contact on the island is the owner of
Baile-na- Ceil at Uig (Richard Gollin). He will have had roofing work
done, I'm sure. Certainly old outbuildings have been converted into
bedrooms and will have needed work done. He might have a
recomendation.

Thanks, Charles. I will ask him.

Harry

In article ,
Harold Davis wrote:
I tend to think that if a tradesman needs a skip he should sort one out
and charge me, rather than expecting me to get one.

If he is trying to keep down his turnover for VAT registration purposes,
that also makes sense. You might well need a permit too if it is parked in
the street. So less work for him if you have to sort it.

When I had my roof replaced here by quite a large firm, they had a
separate guy who came to do the lead work. It can be quite specialised.

But that's not to say a decent general builder couldn't do it well. Just
depends on the builder.

The best way to find a decent tradesman is by recommendation from others.
And a good one will always be busy - and probably not need to advertise
for work.

--
*I know a guy who's addicted to brake fluid. He says he can stop any time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Harold Davis wrote:

There are no company registration details on the quote, although there is
a trading name and an address.

I am emailing them back asking whether they can

* let me know the full name of the company

Could be a sole trader, or partnership, rather than a company

On 25/01/2017 22:05, Harold Davis wrote:
newshound wrote in news:Gfudnai8JL-
:

On 1/25/2017 9:31 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 25/01/17 21:23, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry


Yes, it means he's being "creative" with his accounting.

Fire him and get a proper roofer.

I said roofer, not builder.

Builders should not be trusted with roofs.

I don't *much* like the sound of it, but have you seen other examples
of
his work, or have any recommendations from someone who has used him? If
it is mainly replacing bargeboards and some simple roofing repairs then
a builder *might* be OK. But if a skip is needed, sounds like a lot of
work, you should certainly be getting at least three quotes unless you
have other good reasons to trust him.

Nope, I haven't seen any other examples or had any recommendations. I'm
waiting on another quote. A couple of firms came, promised quotes, then I
heard no more from them. It's not easy to find tradesmen on this island,
especially given that I'm an incomer.

You could really set the cat amongst the pigeons by importing a builder!
Assuming that you can put him up in a spare room, it might be a pleasant
break for the builder and he might reflect that in his quote.



I'm not sure whether the roof repairs count as simple or not. I think
they do. I've described them in another post.

The UPVC job is replacing the full works: soffits, fascia boards,
bargeboards.

The waste would be say 5 roof tiles, the old cope, the existing timber
eaves, guttering if it breaks, and a foot of felt around the roof of the
garage and carport that they have to remove because it will split when
the replace the timber fascias there (if that is the right word).

I tend to think that if a tradesman needs a skip he should sort one out
and charge me, rather than expecting me to get one.

Is the cost of the skip not included in that estimate? The reality is
that the builder will order the skip and you'll pay for it.

On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:27:47 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Harold Davis wrote:

A builder wants me to supply all materials

Could be he's doing it to stay under the VAT threshold, or it could be
he has cashflow or credit issues.

Our major rework of the back of the house was done by a pair of builders
who were not VAT registered and we sourced all the materials.

Had accounts with several Builders' Merchants.

It came in considerably cheaper than paying VAT on labour and materials.
We just paid VAT on the materials.
20% extra on the labour is the best part of a tidy piece!
We also provided skips and hire machinery.

We took the risk of time over runs and paid a daily/weekly rate.

To their credit they were solid workers and could turn their hand to
anything. I spent some of my time as an apprentice builder which was
interesting.

So sourcing the materials yourself carries more risk but could save you
money. As usual, the simple but difficult advice is "chose a reliable
builder".

Even if you get an "all in" quote from a dodgy builder you have no real
guarantee if he skips and/or goes bust.

Cheers


Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 25/01/2017 21:23, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry



If I get trades in I want to work that way ... to avoid them buying at
trade and selling at retails - I make the savings.

Probably find it suits them for cash flow

On 26/01/2017 17:40, David wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2017 21:27:47 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

Harold Davis wrote:

A builder wants me to supply all materials

Could be he's doing it to stay under the VAT threshold, or it could be
he has cashflow or credit issues.

Our major rework of the back of the house was done by a pair of builders
who were not VAT registered and we sourced all the materials.

Had accounts with several Builders' Merchants.

It came in considerably cheaper than paying VAT on labour and materials.
We just paid VAT on the materials.
20% extra on the labour is the best part of a tidy piece!
We also provided skips and hire machinery.

We took the risk of time over runs and paid a daily/weekly rate.

To their credit they were solid workers and could turn their hand to
anything. I spent some of my time as an apprentice builder which was
interesting.

So sourcing the materials yourself carries more risk but could save you
money. As usual, the simple but difficult advice is "chose a reliable
builder".

Even if you get an "all in" quote from a dodgy builder you have no real
guarantee if he skips and/or goes bust.

You do to a degree if you don't pay in advance.

In article ,
JoeJoe wrote:
Even if you get an "all in" quote from a dodgy builder you have no real
guarantee if he skips and/or goes bust.

You do to a degree if you don't pay in advance.

Do any jobbing builders not require stage payments?

--
*Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 21:25:13 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry

Get another quote(s) & compare them.

No-one here can say, there are endless scams.
Only use people your friends have vouched for.

Don't use Poles etc.
They will be in Poland if you have any problems.

Ask to see previous jobs.
Speak to the people that used him.

Don't use people who only have mobile phone numbers and no home address.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 21:25:13 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip
is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Get another quote(s) & compare them.

No-one here can say, there are endless scams.
Only use people your friends have vouched for.

Don't use Poles etc.
They will be in Poland if you have any problems.

Says the hypocrite who used them to
install his second set of solar panels.

Ask to see previous jobs.
Speak to the people that used him.

Don't use people who only have mobile
phone numbers and no home address.

On Saturday, 28 January 2017 16:19:35 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"harry" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 January 2017 21:25:13 UTC, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip
is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Get another quote(s) & compare them.

No-one here can say, there are endless scams.
Only use people your friends have vouched for.

Don't use Poles etc.
They will be in Poland if you have any problems.

Says the hypocrite who used them to
install his second set of solar panels.

Ask to see previous jobs.
Speak to the people that used him.

Don't use people who only have mobile
phone numbers and no home address.

They were subbies.
They were ****e.
I have first hand experience.
Useless *******s.

On 25/01/2017 9:23 PM, Harold Davis wrote:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and replacing
timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he sorts out
supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A skip is
to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Thanks!

Harry



Before I read any other post, I have considered using this method myself.

The one factor, VAT. I want nothing to do with them.


....Ray.

On 27/01/17 00:25, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
JoeJoe wrote:
Even if you get an "all in" quote from a dodgy builder you have no real
guarantee if he skips and/or goes bust.

You do to a degree if you don't pay in advance.

Do any jobbing builders not require stage payments?


No, of course not. They would be too vulnerable to customers being arses
if they didn't get paid as they went along, just as the customer is
vulnerable if they pay too much in advance.
TW

On 1/26/2017 12:53 AM, John Rumm wrote:
On 25/01/2017 23:06, Harold Davis wrote:
newshound wrote in
o.uk:

On 1/25/2017 9:53 PM, Harold Davis wrote:
jim k wrote in
news
Harold Davis Wrote in
message:
A builder wants me to supply all materials for fixing my roof and
replacing timber eaves with UPVC. I think what he means is that he
sorts out supplying them but I supply them on paper.

Could he be anything other than a cowboy?

"Materials have been priced but are to be supplied by the client. A
skip is to be provided buy client for all waste materials."

Keeping turnover down to avoid vat registration? (and charging you
vat)

Thanks.

The estimate (although I expected a quote) says he won't charge me
VAT, so it could be he isn't registered.

He wants £5540 for labour and £2410 for materials for the following
work:

1) roof (replacing chimney cope, water-sealing chimney, replacing
maybe 5 roof tiles near the chimney re-leading a metre or so of a
valley elsewhere on the roof, re-felting the perimeter of flat-roof
garage when he does job 2 below)

and

2) eaves (replacing timber eaves with white UPVC around the whole
house (4 bedrooms plus large garage; house has three gables) and
carport (clean and restain plywood underside).

When I saw the labour cost I thought he must be pulling my plonker.

What should it be? Something like £200-£300 per day for two guys? A
week's work? I don't know; that's why I'm asking.

Sounds like a lot more than a week to me, with all that timber
replacement if it is being done properly (and not just slapping PVC
cladding on top of existing timber). No mention of scaffolding, so
just a tower and/or ladders?

It's a full replacement job, not overboarding. He didn't mention
scaffolding, but I'm not sure how the cope can be cast in situ. The
property is a bungalow. How many days' work does it sound like to you?

Properly replacing facia boards can turn into a nightmare job depending
on how things are fixed. That bit of the job alone could turn into two
to three man weeks worth of work if it does not go to plan. It often
easier to over estimate and then if it turns out to be straight forward,
bill less. Customers will be far more agreeable to that than the other
way around.

Case in point; a mate of mine (retired builder) was asked to do a facia
job for a friend of a friend. He only took it on as a favour and was not
really interested in making money at it - just covering costs and having
something to keep him busy between rounds of golf and snooker etc.

He estimated it would take him a day and a half to two days (this was to
replace some facia above a bay window and repaint). Knowing his tendency
to wildly underestimate jobs - I priced it up and suggested that he
quote on the basis of it taking 4 to 5 days - with materials on top -
not included in the price.

In the end it took nearer 7 days. What you could not see when looking
at the job was that the soffit and facia had few of the expected timbers
in place to support anything, so when you tried to remove the facia,
rather than having the soffit sat in a rebate in the back of the facia
so it could be removed independently, it was nailed to a batten fixed to
the back of the facia. Net result was that the asbestolux soffit broke
up as you attempted to get the fascia off. It also turned out there was
no proper felting under the bottom rows of tiles on the eves (hence why
the facia was getting soaked on the top and back and rotting). So by the
time he had stripped some tiles, refelted, retiled, added extra woodwork
to fix to, made up the new facia boards (customer wanted real timber),
and then bought and cut in new ply soffits all around the bay, and then
finally primed, undercoated and painted the lot, he was well fed up with
the whole job and vowing "never again!"




Been there done that! This was precisely what I had in ming.