Hi,

A friend of mine hired builders who were working for another friend of
his but this friend of mine did not satisfy himself with the quality of
work they are doing and hired them to build a porch and fit kitchen just
on hearsay. He gave the builders £8000 advance and sent these builders
to me to build my porch and toilet.

I also did not see what they have done at my friend's place and thinking
that they are reliable and good builders gave them the advance of £3500
against a contract worth £6500.

Then these builders did not appear to be reliable and after digging the
foundation of my friend's porch, they left the muck lying around with no
skip to take it away.

After the builders left my friend in lurch, then he was worried as to be
the genuineness of the builders. My friend visited the Builder's address
in Gloucester to talk to the builders why they are delaying his project?
Then, the builders brought in some blocks and material for him and that
was it.

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of £40,000 each.

Hearing all these stories, I became suspicious of the builders and when
they sent a team of three on Saturday, 6th August to dig my foundation
without any skip to put the dug out material, I told the workers that I
do not want a mess in front of my house and they should bring the
construction material and the skip before starting the job as the
advance was paid against the materials, skip, etc.

They promised to bring in material last Monday/Tuesday 15/16 August but
nothing so far and they promised to finish my job within 5 weeks of 27
July.

Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered. I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my money
back but no reply or telephone call.

Now, the facts of the case in a nutshell a-

The Company is a sole trader and is owned by a person who never visits
the sites or signs the contracts but sends workers. The persons
representing his company do not have any business cards that they are
authorised to sign the contracts and these two representatives are
taking money in the name of a private person who claims to be an
employee of the company. The signatures of the person signing the
contract are also dubious. For example, our cheque was taken in his
name on 27 July and presented the very day to be cashed next day from my
Abbey National Bank. I did contact this person on his mobile and asked
him when would he bring the materials but he made false promises and
refused to give his private address saying that he is just an employee
of the company/sole trader.

To me the whole thing is a scam and I would like your advise what course
of action should I take to recover my money please? How could I find
the private address of this private person to sue him for the money
please? I have written to the Police of Gloucester but so far I have
not heard from them.

This Builder has done no work at my place but in the other cases, he
just dug his teeth in to argue his case. Total money involved is around
£91,500. The other three being in a deeper waters rang some solicitors
in Gloucester for assistance but they claim to be already acting for
this Builder.

Trading Standards Officer of Gloucester has been informed for assistance
but he says, we should forget about recovering our money. The employees
of the Builder who have collected the money already stress that they
have not committed any crime and Police cannot touch them.

Rajinder Nijjhar

It is hard to advise you from here because the laws stateside are so
different.
But there may be another way. Try contacting a local newspaper or
television station to do a story on your problem, and others that have
had similar problems with this builder. Then, public opinion may force
the local police to do their duty and enforce the law. The public
exposure will also make it difficult for the scoundrels to find more
victims.-Jitney

Thank you. We are trying to do that.

Rajinder

wrote in message
oups.com...
It is hard to advise you from here because the laws stateside are so
different.
But there may be another way. Try contacting a local newspaper or
television station to do a story on your problem, and others that have
had similar problems with this builder. Then, public opinion may force
the local police to do their duty and enforce the law. The public
exposure will also make it difficult for the scoundrels to find more
victims.-Jitney

Was the builder, by chance, wearing a hat, big belt buckle and chaps?




"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in message
...
Hi,

A friend of mine hired builders who were working for another friend of
his but this friend of mine did not satisfy himself with the quality of
work they are doing and hired them to build a porch and fit kitchen just
on hearsay. He gave the builders £8000 advance and sent these builders
to me to build my porch and toilet.

I also did not see what they have done at my friend's place and thinking
that they are reliable and good builders gave them the advance of £3500
against a contract worth £6500.

Then these builders did not appear to be reliable and after digging the
foundation of my friend's porch, they left the muck lying around with no
skip to take it away.

After the builders left my friend in lurch, then he was worried as to be
the genuineness of the builders. My friend visited the Builder's address
in Gloucester to talk to the builders why they are delaying his project?
Then, the builders brought in some blocks and material for him and that
was it.

These builders have put two others known to my friend in the same
situation and they have paid the builders sums of £40,000 each.

Hearing all these stories, I became suspicious of the builders and when
they sent a team of three on Saturday, 6th August to dig my foundation
without any skip to put the dug out material, I told the workers that I
do not want a mess in front of my house and they should bring the
construction material and the skip before starting the job as the
advance was paid against the materials, skip, etc.

They promised to bring in material last Monday/Tuesday 15/16 August but
nothing so far and they promised to finish my job within 5 weeks of 27
July.

Now, the builders have disconnected their telephone line that used to
have a fax as well and there is no way we can contact them and it seems
the address is of a rented house. Mobile phones are not answered. I
sent them a Special Delivery Letter on 04 August, 05 demanding my money
back but no reply or telephone call.

Now, the facts of the case in a nutshell a-

The Company is a sole trader and is owned by a person who never visits
the sites or signs the contracts but sends workers. The persons
representing his company do not have any business cards that they are
authorised to sign the contracts and these two representatives are
taking money in the name of a private person who claims to be an
employee of the company. The signatures of the person signing the
contract are also dubious. For example, our cheque was taken in his
name on 27 July and presented the very day to be cashed next day from my
Abbey National Bank. I did contact this person on his mobile and asked
him when would he bring the materials but he made false promises and
refused to give his private address saying that he is just an employee
of the company/sole trader.

To me the whole thing is a scam and I would like your advise what course
of action should I take to recover my money please? How could I find
the private address of this private person to sue him for the money
please? I have written to the Police of Gloucester but so far I have
not heard from them.

This Builder has done no work at my place but in the other cases, he
just dug his teeth in to argue his case. Total money involved is around
£91,500. The other three being in a deeper waters rang some solicitors
in Gloucester for assistance but they claim to be already acting for
this Builder.

Trading Standards Officer of Gloucester has been informed for assistance
but he says, we should forget about recovering our money. The employees
of the Builder who have collected the money already stress that they
have not committed any crime and Police cannot touch them.

Rajinder Nijjhar

Here in NJ, USA this type of scam is common. The crooks are
knowledgable about the law. If they take money and never show up, it's
very easy to get a criminal conviction. However, if they show up,
start the work and then disappear, or come back in a couple months to
do a little more work, then it's much harder to prove a criminal case.
You're left with a civil suit, which is useless. You can sue them and
there's a good chance you'll win. In fact most times they don't even
show up in court, so you get a default judgement. The problem of
course is collecting. These skunks are smart and have no easy to find
assets in their own names.

The prosectors here have gotten tougher recently. Now they do go after
guys like this that do some work then disappear. But the only ones
I've seen them go after are the ones that have done it to a lot of
people. If you can find enough other victims, you may have a better
chance of getting the authorities to pursue a criminal case. But sady,
I think the chances of recovering any money are slim. The first rule
of dealing with these guys is never pay them for more work than they
do. Money should be handed over in stages as the work is done or
materials actually are delivered.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Here in NJ, USA this type of scam is common. The crooks are
knowledgable about the law. If they take money and never show up, it's
very easy to get a criminal conviction. However, if they show up,
start the work and then disappear, or come back in a couple months to
do a little more work, then it's much harder to prove a criminal case.
You're left with a civil suit, which is useless. You can sue them and
there's a good chance you'll win. In fact most times they don't even
show up in court, so you get a default judgement. The problem of
course is collecting. These skunks are smart and have no easy to find
assets in their own names.

The prosectors here have gotten tougher recently. Now they do go after
guys like this that do some work then disappear. But the only ones
I've seen them go after are the ones that have done it to a lot of
people. If you can find enough other victims, you may have a better
chance of getting the authorities to pursue a criminal case. But sady,
I think the chances of recovering any money are slim. The first rule
of dealing with these guys is never pay them for more work than they
do. Money should be handed over in stages as the work is done or
materials actually are delivered.


Convicting them in a criminal suit could be difficult but if the completion
date is well past, a civil case for breach of contract and damages incurred
would be a good place to start. The crooks will probably delay until they
have a bunch of cases then go bankrupt and start a new company someplace
else. How much money do you want to invest in getting your money back which
is a 50/50 proposition at best.

In the US there is a whole counter coulture of gypseys called the Travellers
that have been notorious for this kind of scam for many years.

Hi,

I seem to have learnt a lesson the harder way but the other three are in
much deeper water.

Rajinder

wrote in message
oups.com...
Here in NJ, USA this type of scam is common. The crooks are
knowledgable about the law. If they take money and never show up,
it's
very easy to get a criminal conviction. However, if they show up,
start the work and then disappear, or come back in a couple months to
do a little more work, then it's much harder to prove a criminal case.
You're left with a civil suit, which is useless. You can sue them and
there's a good chance you'll win. In fact most times they don't even
show up in court, so you get a default judgement. The problem of
course is collecting. These skunks are smart and have no easy to find
assets in their own names.

The prosectors here have gotten tougher recently. Now they do go
after
guys like this that do some work then disappear. But the only ones
I've seen them go after are the ones that have done it to a lot of
people. If you can find enough other victims, you may have a better
chance of getting the authorities to pursue a criminal case. But
sady,
I think the chances of recovering any money are slim. The first rule
of dealing with these guys is never pay them for more work than they
do. Money should be handed over in stages as the work is done or
materials actually are delivered.

Well, don't give up, at least you can work on making his life hell and
hunting down any new accounts he might be trying to get and warning the
owners. If you make enough noise, you might get your work done just lo
leave him alone.

I don't know about the UK but building permits are public info here in the
US, you can use it to find other victims. You should never hire a
contractor without first checking his license which should be easy and any
serious complaints will be found there. Checking references of Completed
projects is a very good idea too.






"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I seem to have learnt a lesson the harder way but the other three are in
much deeper water.

Rajinder

wrote in message
oups.com...
Here in NJ, USA this type of scam is common. The crooks are
knowledgable about the law. If they take money and never show up,
it's
very easy to get a criminal conviction. However, if they show up,
start the work and then disappear, or come back in a couple months to
do a little more work, then it's much harder to prove a criminal case.
You're left with a civil suit, which is useless. You can sue them and
there's a good chance you'll win. In fact most times they don't even
show up in court, so you get a default judgement. The problem of
course is collecting. These skunks are smart and have no easy to find
assets in their own names.

The prosectors here have gotten tougher recently. Now they do go
after
guys like this that do some work then disappear. But the only ones
I've seen them go after are the ones that have done it to a lot of
people. If you can find enough other victims, you may have a better
chance of getting the authorities to pursue a criminal case. But
sady,
I think the chances of recovering any money are slim. The first rule
of dealing with these guys is never pay them for more work than they
do. Money should be handed over in stages as the work is done or
materials actually are delivered.

THANKS.

RAJINDER

"PipeDown" wrote in message
.net...
Well, don't give up, at least you can work on making his life hell and
hunting down any new accounts he might be trying to get and warning
the
owners. If you make enough noise, you might get your work done just
lo
leave him alone.

I don't know about the UK but building permits are public info here in
the
US, you can use it to find other victims. You should never hire a
contractor without first checking his license which should be easy and
any
serious complaints will be found there. Checking references of
Completed
projects is a very good idea too.






"Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt" wrote in
message
...
Hi,

I seem to have learnt a lesson the harder way but the other three
are in
much deeper water.

Rajinder

wrote in message
oups.com...
Here in NJ, USA this type of scam is common. The crooks are
knowledgable about the law. If they take money and never show up,
it's
very easy to get a criminal conviction. However, if they show up,
start the work and then disappear, or come back in a couple months
to
do a little more work, then it's much harder to prove a criminal
case.
You're left with a civil suit, which is useless. You can sue them
and
there's a good chance you'll win. In fact most times they don't
even
show up in court, so you get a default judgement. The problem of
course is collecting. These skunks are smart and have no easy to
find
assets in their own names.

The prosectors here have gotten tougher recently. Now they do go
after
guys like this that do some work then disappear. But the only ones
I've seen them go after are the ones that have done it to a lot of
people. If you can find enough other victims, you may have a
better
chance of getting the authorities to pursue a criminal case. But
sady,
I think the chances of recovering any money are slim. The first
rule
of dealing with these guys is never pay them for more work than
they
do. Money should be handed over in stages as the work is done or
materials actually are delivered.

Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar Jatt wrote:
Hi,

A friend of mine hired builders who were working for another friend of
his but this friend of mine did not satisfy himself with the quality of
work they are doing


Cowboys are dime a dozen in the western US. Woulda been cheaper for
your firend's friends'friend of a friend to just fly out and buy a
cowboy, rather than to hire someone to build one.