Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

--
A man goes home early and catches another man in bed with his wife.
He drags the naked man out of the house and into his garden shed.
There he secures man's penis in a vice and removes the handle, then starts to sharpen a knife.
The naked man shouts, "You're not going to cut it off are you?"
"No, you are," was the reply. "I'm going to set fire to the shed"

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete based
house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with PEX.
That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
plus he is the local dole whore loon.

On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.
plus he is the local dole whore loon.

Count up YOUR posts and try to say that again with a straight face.

On 04/01/2017 18:48, burfordTjustice wrote:

snip

plus he is the local dole whore loon.

And you aren't?

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

--
The average lifespan of electronic devices is between zero and infinity, or 2 days after the warranty runs out, whichever comes first.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 18:42:34 -0000, mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete based
house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with PEX.
That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.

Why did you want inspection? When you do work on your house, you don't tell anyone.

--
Pub sign: Liquor in the front, poker in the rear.

On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 20:00:32 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?


NT

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 20:00:32 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

--
This exchange was overheard between the separated sections of the jail.
A male voice yells over to the female side: "I got 12 inches over here you would love to have."
The female response was: "Well, spit it out it isn't yours."

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:00:22 -0000
"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass
inspection. Long story short, research indicated that using rebar
in concrete was a trend in establishing a safety ground.
Apparently, there's enough conductive salt and water in concrete
to make it work, as long as the concrete sits on the ground and
you're not in the desert. Contact resistance is high, but
there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that
the "grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor
of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by
someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to
make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)


LOL Please post a picture of you taking the measurement.

On 1/4/17 2:00 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor
of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by
someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete
to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale
(20MOhms)

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.
The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:14:36 -0000, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 1/4/17 2:00 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor
of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by
someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete
to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale
(20MOhms)

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.

You guess?

The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF

"A good grounding resistance is 5 ohms or less" - well since I got 20 MOhms, I guess that isn't grounded.

--
The longest word in German is DONAUDAMPFSCHIFFAHRTSELEKTRIZITAETENHAUPTBETRIEBSW ERKBAUUNTERBEAMTENGESELLSCHAFT, "the club for subordinate officials of the head office management of the Danube steamboat electrical services" (name of a pre-war club in Vienna), according to 1996 Guinness.

On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 21:01:04 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 20:00:32 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area..

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

So less than a square millimetre at 1.5-9v


NT

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:44:56 -0000, wrote:

On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 21:01:04 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 20:00:32 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:
On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete
based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good
insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main with
PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass inspection.
Long story short, research indicated that using rebar in concrete
was a trend in establishing a safety ground. Apparently, there's
enough conductive salt and water in concrete to make it work,
as long as the concrete sits on the ground and you're not in
the desert. Contact resistance is high, but there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that the
"grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in the
UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

So less than a square millimetre at 1.5-9v

What's your point?

--
Reality is for people who can't handle alcohol and joints.

On 1/4/17 6:32 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Some cut.

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.

You guess?

The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF


"A good grounding resistance is 5 ohms or less" - well since I got 20
MOhms, I guess that isn't grounded.

So did you use an actual ground tester or a volt/ohm meter? It
sure seems odd that
your results don't match Mr. Ufer's and bunches of people after him.
An article in Electrical Contractor magazine says Ufer's grounding
electrodes kept the resistance at 2-5 ohms over a 20 year period.
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/what-ufer-ground

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 01:13:23 -0000, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 1/4/17 6:32 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Some cut.

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.

You guess?

The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF


"A good grounding resistance is 5 ohms or less" - well since I got 20
MOhms, I guess that isn't grounded.

So did you use an actual ground tester or a volt/ohm meter? It
sure seems odd that
your results don't match Mr. Ufer's and bunches of people after him.
An article in Electrical Contractor magazine says Ufer's grounding
electrodes kept the resistance at 2-5 ohms over a 20 year period.
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/what-ufer-ground

Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete is a porous material which may or may not contain water. The floor of your house should never contain water, or you have BIG problems, way above a possibility of shock.

--
"VAT is a simple tax..." -- Anthony Barber, Chancellor of the Exchequer on the introduction of VAT on April Fool's Day in 1973.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 01:13:23 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 1/4/17 6:32 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Some cut.

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm
meter.

You guess?

The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF



"A good grounding resistance is 5 ohms or less" - well since I got 20
MOhms, I guess that isn't grounded.

So did you use an actual ground tester or a volt/ohm meter? It
sure seems odd that
your results don't match Mr. Ufer's and bunches of people after him.
An article in Electrical Contractor magazine says Ufer's grounding
electrodes kept the resistance at 2-5 ohms over a 20 year period.
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/what-ufer-ground

Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts.

Not that well, it is whatever salts and impurities in it that do.



Concrete is a porous material which may or may not contain water. The
floor of your house should never contain water, or you have BIG
problems, way above a possibility of shock.

Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/4/17 2:00 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor
of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by
someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete
to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale
(20MOhms)

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.
The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF


My house is on a slab and I get five volt tingle from the taps when I am
in the shower.
I suspect that when it was built they did not bond the steel mesh to
earth, which they are supposed to do now.

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

--
Chris Green
·

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 10:16:05 UTC, Chris Green wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

So is concrete the impurity here ?

"whisky-dave" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 5 January 2017 10:16:05 UTC, Chris Green wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts.
Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's
the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

So is concrete the impurity here ?

Nope, you are.

Chris Green wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

Is there an echo in here?

On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 16:02:42 -0500
burfordTjustice wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:00:22 -0000
"James Wilkinson Sword" wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 19:13:21 -0000, mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 10:48 AM, burfordTjustice wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:42:34 -0800
mike wrote:

On 1/4/2017 9:58 AM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a
concrete based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a
bloody good insulator!

Sorry, can't find the post it was mentioned in.

Can't help with a link, but I recently replaced my water main
with PEX. That broke the ground to the house and wouldn't pass
inspection. Long story short, research indicated that using
rebar in concrete was a trend in establishing a safety ground.
Apparently, there's enough conductive salt and water in concrete
to make it work, as long as the concrete sits on the ground and
you're not in the desert. Contact resistance is high, but
there's a lot of area.

I followed the code and installed two ground rods.
I did some impedance measurements between the rods and the
electrical system ground (before connecting) and determined that
the "grounding" was insufficient to do anything more than
dissipate static electricity, but the
inspector liked it.
I'd guess that hooking to the rebar is at least as good.


"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules
Question wasn't about rules.
Was about concrete as a ground. Unlikely it's much different in
the UK.

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor
of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by
someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete
to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale
(20MOhms)


LOL Please post a picture of you taking the measurement.

Well?

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 00:49:42 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:44:56 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 21:01:04 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

So less than a square millimetre at 1.5-9v

What's your point?

Lol


NT

On 05/01/17 12:42, whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 5 January 2017 10:16:05 UTC, Chris Green wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

So is concrete the impurity here ?


salts in it sure can be

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 08:04:42 -0000, F Murtz wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 01:13:23 -0000, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 1/4/17 6:32 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

Some cut.

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm
meter.

You guess?

The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF



"A good grounding resistance is 5 ohms or less" - well since I got 20
MOhms, I guess that isn't grounded.

So did you use an actual ground tester or a volt/ohm meter? It
sure seems odd that
your results don't match Mr. Ufer's and bunches of people after him.
An article in Electrical Contractor magazine says Ufer's grounding
electrodes kept the resistance at 2-5 ohms over a 20 year period.
http://www.ecmag.com/section/codes-standards/what-ufer-ground

Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts.

Not that well, it is whatever salts and impurities in it that do.

I never said pure water :-)

--
Statistics show that 25% of all women are on medication for mental illness.
That's scary! It means 75% are running around with no bloody medication at all!!!

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:22:54 -0000, wrote:

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 00:49:42 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:44:56 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 21:01:04 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

So less than a square millimetre at 1.5-9v

What's your point?

Lol

I see you have no idea what you're talking about.

--
Amanpreet was overheard at the hospital angrily say, "My wife just delivered twins!!!"
A passerby said, "So? You should be happy about that. Why are you so angry?"
"I want to know who the son of a bitch is that's the father of the second kid!"

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 14:12:04 -0000, Chris Hogg wrote:

On Thu, 5 Jan 2017 02:42:43 -0800 (PST), whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 10:16:05 UTC, Chris Green wrote:
James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

So is concrete the impurity here ?

Dry concrete will have a very low conductivity. It's the aqueous
phase, and the salts therein, that are responsible for it's
conductivity. As concrete sets, the conductivity falls from a high
value when first mixed and poured, to a low value after a suitably
long setting time. The salts in the aqueous phase will consist mainly
of calcium, with some magnesium, potassium and sodium. Over time,
these salts get incorporated into the mineral phases in concrete and
conductivity falls.

See links here for more details http://tinyurl.com/gngc8hb

Precisely, set concrete with no water around does not conduct at all.

--
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 10:14:05 -0000, Chris Green wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
Resistance is resistance. Concrete does NOT conduct. WATER conducts. Concrete

Not really (water that is), pure water is a very poor conductor. It's the
impurities in water that make it a reasonable coductor but even tap
water isn't that good.

It's very good. Which is why people get shock in swimming pools and baths.

--
A dyslexic man walks into a bra.

James Wilkinson Sword posted for all of us...



Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good insulator!

Negative, if one looks at an AM radio station the tower is used as the
antenna. Note a big ceramic insulator between the tower and the foundation.
the is a spark gap on the insulator for lighting. If the transmitter is
active then a non conductive ladder to climb the tower. That is why
maintenance is performed at night because they are off the air.


--
Tekkie

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 20:09:16 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:22:54 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 5 January 2017 00:49:42 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:44:56 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 21:01:04 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

So less than a square millimetre at 1.5-9v

What's your point?

Lol

I see you have no idea what you're talking about.

Welcome to the idiot bin.

"F Murtz" wrote in message
b.com...
Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/4/17 2:00 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor
of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by
someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete
to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale
(20MOhms)

I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.
The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF

My house is on a slab

So is mine.

and I get five volt tingle from the taps when I am in the shower.

I don't. What's the detail on the plumbing ? Mine is
soldered copper, mostly but not entirely yorkshire fittings.

I suspect that when it was built they did not bond the steel mesh to
earth,

Very unlikely. I know mine isnt because I did the
mesh and slab myself and I don't get that effect.

which they are supposed to do now.

Gotta cite on that ?

What are you doing hot water wise ?

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 20:57:15 -0000, Tekkie® wrote:

James Wilkinson Sword posted for all of us...



Somebody in one of these two groups recently said that a concrete based house means you're earthed. Concrete is a bloody good insulator!

Negative, if one looks at an AM radio station the tower is used as the
antenna. Note a big ceramic insulator between the tower and the foundation.
the is a spark gap on the insulator for lighting. If the transmitter is
active then a non conductive ladder to climb the tower. That is why
maintenance is performed at night because they are off the air.

The base can get wet.

--
Hipatitis (n): Terminal coolness.

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 21:16:01 -0000, wrote:

On Thursday, 5 January 2017 20:09:16 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 13:22:54 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Thursday, 5 January 2017 00:49:42 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 00:44:56 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:
On Wednesday, 4 January 2017 21:01:04 UTC, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 20:13:28 -0000, tabbypurr wrote:

It was more about getting an electric shock by standing on the floor of your house while touching something live. This was suggested by someone recently as being a danger. I just measured some concrete to make sure I wasn't being ignorant, and it was off the scale (20MOhms)

Using what area, at what voltage, and what is the concrete resting on?

The electrodes were about 1cm apart, and on the ground, in Scotland, which is pretty damp.

So less than a square millimetre at 1.5-9v

What's your point?

Lol

I see you have no idea what you're talking about.

Welcome to the idiot bin.

Oh dear, another one who can't handle reality.

--
Snap-off parts, because it's French.

On 04/01/2017 18:48, burfordTjustice wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules

And you aren't?

(Oh. Someone's cross posted this lot to a global list as well as the UK one)

On 05/01/2017 00:14, Dean Hoffman wrote:
I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.
The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF

I like that link.

Page 5 has a table with ground electrode depths ranging between 3 and
1000 meters.

Yes, meters. I'll assume they mean metres, which is well over half a
mile... maybe they do mean a pile of 1000 testers?

Hmm... I wonder what they do mean?

Page 6 says "Just watch your units"

Andy

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 21:51:56 -0000, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 04/01/2017 18:48, burfordTjustice wrote:
"James Wilkinson Sword" is in the UK...different rules

And you aren't?

(Oh. Someone's cross posted this lot to a global list as well as the UK one)

Oh how confusing.

--
While taking down the vitals for a soon-to-be mom, I asked how much she weighed.
"I really don't know," she said.
"Well, more or less," I prompted.
"More, I guess," she answered sadly.

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 21:58:59 -0000, Vir Campestris wrote:

On 05/01/2017 00:14, Dean Hoffman wrote:
I guess one doesn't test earth grounding with a regular ohm meter.
The instructor at one of my code refresher classes asked once if
anyone had
the correct type of tester. No one did out of at least 50
electricians. Earth grounding
is primarily for damage from lightning. He also had a diagram showing
how little current would flow through the earth if a well motor had a
short to the frame. The resistance was so high that there was no way
even a tiny fuse would blow if there was a short.
This is from the meter maker Fluke:
http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2633834_6115_ENG_A_W.PDF

I like that link.

Page 5 has a table with ground electrode depths ranging between 3 and
1000 meters.

Yes, meters. I'll assume they mean metres, which is well over half a
mile... maybe they do mean a pile of 1000 testers?

Hmm... I wonder what they do mean?

Page 6 says "Just watch your units"

[crosses legs]

--
While taking down the vitals for a soon-to-be mom, I asked how much she weighed.
"I really don't know," she said.
"Well, more or less," I prompted.
"More, I guess," she answered sadly.