I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.

GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.


You only need to cut off the cold supply from the header tank and drop
the water level down to the level of the immersion flange - usually on
the top.
Cracking a crusty seal can be a swine. Huge leverage on an immersion
spanner is NOT the answer but instead short sharp shocks to the spanner
usually work.

Usually the fibre sealing washer is quite thick - around 3mm. If it
really stuck stubbornly, use a hacksaw blade to cut into the washer
sideways all the way round stopping when you hit the immersion collar
thread and break the crusty seal that way.

However you do it, scrupulously clean the sealing face on the tank and
always use a new sealing washer.

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:27:15 +0000, GB wrote:

I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.

Not much help directly, but I would be prepared to replace a 40 year old
cylinder on general principles because of the risks of something breaking
if you do anything.

If a hard water area it is likely to be clagged up anyway, and modern
cylinders tend to be better insulated.

I would run the hot water off anyway (perhaps over a period which allows
me to use it).

I assume that you have a drain tap at the bottom :-).

Garden hose will cope with hot water (we have used one to fill a water bed
from the hot tap).

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the immersion
heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R

--
Dell XPS laptop running W8.1

On 28/12/2016 10:52, Bob Minchin wrote:
GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.


You only need to cut off the cold supply from the header tank and drop
the water level down to the level of the immersion flange - usually on
the top.

I'll pretty much empty it anyway. The last thing I need is the tank
splitting and deluging very hot water.

Cracking a crusty seal can be a swine. Huge leverage on an immersion
spanner is NOT the answer but instead short sharp shocks to the spanner
usually work.

So, tap the spanner with a hammer?



Usually the fibre sealing washer is quite thick - around 3mm. If it
really stuck stubbornly, use a hacksaw blade to cut into the washer
sideways all the way round stopping when you hit the immersion collar
thread and break the crusty seal that way.

That sounds good, thanks.


However you do it, scrupulously clean the sealing face on the tank and
always use a new sealing washer.


There are two immersion heaters. One is for night time cheap
electricity. The one I am replacing is the daytime one.

On 28/12/2016 10:27, GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.



Turn the water supply to the cylinder off and turn on the hot taps, they
should stop running in a couple of minutes as the tank will stay full as
the outlet is at the top of the tank. Carefully slacken / undo the
compression fitting above the top of the tank where the hot water pipe
tees (to the taps and the expansion pipe) mopping up any spillage - if
everything is turned off properly a couple of towels should suffice.

Use the correct box spanner (e.g.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p80367?table=no) with a bar so that you
can apply turning force to it on both sides at the same time. Just
slacken the heater to break the seal, then insert a hose to siphon out
the water to just below the heater hole and then remove and replace the
heater. Do not attempt to unscrew the heater if the tank is empty it
will just buckle.

It's one of those jobs that I have done two or three times but now days
I have a friend who is a plumber and, for the sake of my nerves, I
prefer to pay him to do it!

I'm sure others will be along with advice as well.

Peter (I am not a plumber)

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

"GB" wrote

I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for over
40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can you put
on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there anything I
can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water,

Yep.

or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by running off the hot water?

Nope.

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.

On 28/12/2016 11:07, Peter Andrews wrote:
On 28/12/2016 10:27, GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.



Turn the water supply to the cylinder off and turn on the hot taps, they
should stop running in a couple of minutes as the tank will stay full as
the outlet is at the top of the tank. Carefully slacken / undo the
compression fitting above the top of the tank where the hot water pipe
tees (to the taps and the expansion pipe) mopping up any spillage - if
everything is turned off properly a couple of towels should suffice.

Use the correct box spanner (e.g.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p80367?table=no) with a bar so that you
can apply turning force to it on both sides at the same time. Just
slacken the heater to break the seal, then insert a hose to siphon out
the water to just below the heater hole and then remove and replace the
heater. Do not attempt to unscrew the heater if the tank is empty it
will just buckle.

It's one of those jobs that I have done two or three times but now days
I have a friend who is a plumber and, for the sake of my nerves, I
prefer to pay him to do it!

I'm sure others will be along with advice as well.

Peter (I am not a plumber)
My previous post assumed (wrongly) that you had a single immersion
heater at the top! Same applies though just that you will need to
siphon out rather more water to avoid spillage when removing the heater.

Peter

On Wed, 28 Dec 2016 10:27:15 +0000, GB wrote:

I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Something to ease it will not be amiss, as in WD-40, Plusgas, etc.

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

Cool the tank, because loosening the thing is easier on a full tank, because the
water supports the tank and gives it bit of heft. And you don't want hot water
spewing everywhere.

It's easy: You will loosen the heater with the tank full just enough so it
doesn't leak (much), but comes off easily once the tank is drained.

(Yeah, one of those jobs to approach with a sense of doom.)


Thomas Prufer

On 28/12/2016 11:07, Peter Andrews wrote:
Do not attempt to unscrew the heater if the tank is empty it
will just buckle.


That's really my question. My concern is that, if it buckles and splits
when full of water, that's even more of a disaster!

In article ,
GB wrote:
You only need to cut off the cold supply from the header tank and drop
the water level down to the level of the immersion flange - usually on
the top.

I'll pretty much empty it anyway. The last thing I need is the tank
splitting and deluging very hot water.

Run it out via the taps? It will then be replaced with cold. There may be
less risk of damage to the cylinder and pipes if it's full of water - the
extra mass will help stop it moving.

--
*The closest I ever got to a 4.0 in school was my blood alcohol content*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 28/12/2016 11:08, DerbyBorn wrote:

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

I'd prefer to make sure its empty some way under the immersion tank
opening. In the past I have worried about the tank giving but being
copper it ought to be ductile and if there is any tearing it ought to be
around the mounting itself.

If exceptionally tight, I might use a hammer to tap it round rather than
apply extreme force with the worry it can all give way before I can
remove the force! LOL

..

Run it out via the taps? It will then be replaced with cold. There may be
less risk of damage to the cylinder and pipes if it's full of water - the
extra mass will help stop it moving.


Consider using Copaslip or some other thread lubricant when installing -
but take care this does not let you overtighten it. The washer needs to be
just nipped - not crushed to death.

Definately light taps.

"Peter Andrews" wrote in message
news
On 28/12/2016 10:27, GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.



Turn the water supply to the cylinder off and turn on the hot taps, they
should stop running in a couple of minutes as the tank will stay full as
the outlet is at the top of the tank. Carefully slacken / undo the
compression fitting above the top of the tank where the hot water pipe
tees (to the taps and the expansion pipe) mopping up any spillage - if
everything is turned off properly a couple of towels should suffice.

Use the correct box spanner (e.g.
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p80367?table=no) with a bar so that you
can apply turning force to it on both sides at the same time. Just slacken
the heater to break the seal, then insert a hose to siphon out the water
to just below the heater hole and then remove and replace the heater. Do
not attempt to unscrew the heater if the tank is empty it will just
buckle.

It's one of those jobs that I have done two or three times but now days I
have a friend who is a plumber and, for the sake of my nerves, I prefer to
pay him to do it!

I'm sure others will be along with advice as well.

Peter (I am not a plumber)

In my case, there is a drain cock at the bottom of the cylinder, allowing me
to get the water level below that of the immersion mounting prior to
unscrewing.

Once, I did indeed rip the tank trying to unscrew the immersion. I was
amazed at how thin the copper was, so be warned! I soldered copper patches
over the tears as an interim solution.

I would say try to avoid the use of boss white on the new fibre washer, as
that's what hardens and makes removal difficult. PTFE tape round the screw
thread should be OK if it can be done without tearing.
--
Dave W

GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years.

40 years? What's the insulation like? If it's a strap on jacket I would
just change the cylinder.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 28/12/2016 10:27, GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.



I did this a few weeks ago.

Huge torque will destroy the cylinder, they are relatively soft.

The thing that worked for me was a blow torch, heating around the top
where it screwed into the cylinder.

I'm not totally sure why but I think it was because the heat softened
the jointing compound that had been used on the thread.

On 28/12/2016 13:00, Nick wrote:
On 28/12/2016 10:27, GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.



I did this a few weeks ago.

Huge torque will destroy the cylinder, they are relatively soft.

The thing that worked for me was a blow torch, heating around the top
where it screwed into the cylinder.

I'm not totally sure why but I think it was because the heat softened
the jointing compound that had been used on the thread.

Forgot to say buy this type of spanner

http://www.screwfix.com/p/box-immersion-spanner/29549?kpid=29549&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&gclid=COKSpoj6ltECFUa4GwodH FoFVA

I tried this cheaper one and it was rubbish

http://www.screwfix.com/p/plumbing-tools-by-rothenberger-cranked-immersion-spanner-122mm/20266

GB formulated on Wednesday :
On 28/12/2016 11:07, Peter Andrews wrote:
Do not attempt to unscrew the heater if the tank is empty it
will just buckle.


That's really my question. My concern is that, if it buckles and splits when
full of water, that's even more of a disaster!

It will not suddenly split, it will buckle first giving plenty of
warning. Try tapping spanner towards tighten and well as slacken.

Is this a soldered in lug or original fitment?

On 28/12/2016 13:16, Harry Bloomfield wrote:
GB formulated on Wednesday :
On 28/12/2016 11:07, Peter Andrews wrote:
Do not attempt to unscrew the heater if the tank is empty it
will just buckle.


That's really my question. My concern is that, if it buckles and
splits when full of water, that's even more of a disaster!

It will not suddenly split, it will buckle first giving plenty of
warning. Try tapping spanner towards tighten and well as slacken.

Is this a soldered in lug or original fitment?

You mean the boss for the immersion heater? It looks like it was
originally on the cylinder when made..

Is an immersion heater one of those situations where - as it is the washer
and the faces that perform the function of sealing, it is totally un-
necesary to apply any sealant to the threads. (I wouldn't - I would just
ensure the faces were free of debris and damage - and the washer was good.)

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 10:27:14 UTC, GB wrote:
I need to replace an immersion heater that's been in the cylinder for
over 40 years. It looks well crusted in place. So, how much force can
you put on it to unscrew it without rupturing the cylinder? Is there
anything I can do to ease it, or is brute force the way to do it?

Also, the cylinder is full of hot water. I'll need to drain the cylinder
through a hose at the bottom. Will an ordinary garden hose be okay with
piping hot water, or do I need to cool the cylinder down first by
running off the hot water?

You can tell that this is not a job I've done before.

Removing an old immersion heater is easy.
I have removed dozens as an apprentice.
All you need is a hacksaw blade with one end taped up to form a handle.
Use this to saw out the fibre washer between the cylinder and the heater.
You need to go all the way round and all the way through.
You know you're through when you feel the blade skidding on the metal of the immersion heater.
It will then unscrew quite easily.
You might have to carefully file out any scores/fibre washer remnants on the flange face on the cylinder,
Smear jointing compound on the new fibre washer.

On 28/12/2016 18:20, harry wrote:

Removing an old immersion heater is easy.
I have removed dozens as an apprentice.
All you need is a hacksaw blade with one end taped up to form a handle.
Use this to saw out the fibre washer between the cylinder and the heater.
You need to go all the way round and all the way through.
You know you're through when you feel the blade skidding on the metal of the immersion heater.

I did that, and it is exactly as you say. Afterwards, I read that fibre
washers of that era contain asbestos. Oh well, fingers crossed. You seem
to have survived ok.



It will then unscrew quite easily.
You might have to carefully file out any scores/fibre washer remnants on the flange face on the cylinder,
Smear jointing compound on the new fibre washer.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 18:30:07 UTC, GB wrote:
On 28/12/2016 18:20, harry wrote:

Removing an old immersion heater is easy.
I have removed dozens as an apprentice.
All you need is a hacksaw blade with one end taped up to form a handle.
Use this to saw out the fibre washer between the cylinder and the heater.
You need to go all the way round and all the way through.
You know you're through when you feel the blade skidding on the metal of the immersion heater.

I did that, and it is exactly as you say. Afterwards, I read that fibre
washers of that era contain asbestos. Oh well, fingers crossed. You seem
to have survived ok.


True but it is damp and the dust doesn't waft about.


It will then unscrew quite easily.
You might have to carefully file out any scores/fibre washer remnants on the flange face on the cylinder,
Smear jointing compound on the new fibre washer.

On 28/12/2016 16:46, DerbyBorn wrote:
Is an immersion heater one of those situations where - as it is the washer
and the faces that perform the function of sealing, it is totally un-
necesary to apply any sealant to the threads. (I wouldn't - I would just
ensure the faces were free of debris and damage - and the washer was good.)

I think that is a good point.

Possibly I was misleading and the jointing compound was applied to the
washer.

The first time I refitted the immersion I didn't use jointing compound
and it leaked. So I put jointing compound all around it the next time. I
bought a better spanner too, so I can't be quite sure what fixed it.

On Wednesday, 28 December 2016 19:52:07 UTC, Nick wrote:
On 28/12/2016 16:46, DerbyBorn wrote:
Is an immersion heater one of those situations where - as it is the washer
and the faces that perform the function of sealing, it is totally un-
necesary to apply any sealant to the threads. (I wouldn't - I would just
ensure the faces were free of debris and damage - and the washer was good.)

I think that is a good point.

Possibly I was misleading and the jointing compound was applied to the
washer.

The first time I refitted the immersion I didn't use jointing compound
and it leaked. So I put jointing compound all around it the next time. I
bought a better spanner too, so I can't be quite sure what fixed it.

Only taper threads make a seal.
Parallel threads are not intended to and need a washer or joint.

It will then unscrew quite easily.
You might have to carefully file out any scores/fibre washer
remnants on the flange face on the cylinder, Smear jointing
compound on the new fibre washer.



But if it had been fitted by someone who used a thread sealant than it
won't help much.

On 12/28/2016 4:46 PM, DerbyBorn wrote:
Is an immersion heater one of those situations where - as it is the washer
and the faces that perform the function of sealing, it is totally un-
necesary to apply any sealant to the threads. (I wouldn't - I would just
ensure the faces were free of debris and damage - and the washer was good.)

True, you don't need it for sealing. But if you use PTFE tape, this
reduces the friction and then you get more axial force (so better
sealing) for a given torque. And if you more or less completely fill the
thread clearance with PTFE, you get less limescale deposited there, and
that makes it easier to remove. PTFE is so soft that you can't really
overfill the clearance, any surplus just extrudes. The same think
happens if you accidentally put a wrap of PTFE over an olive, although
it is good practice not to.

On 28/12/2016 11:08, DerbyBorn wrote:

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

IME yes, its much stronger when kept "taught" by the mass of water in it.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2016 11:08, DerbyBorn wrote:

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

IME yes, its much stronger when kept "taught" by the mass of water in it.

Oh dear, I don't think this is going to increase my popularity,
'taut'. (It does mean you don't have to quote it really though).

:-) :-)

--
Chris Green
·

On 29/12/16 20:51, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2016 11:08, DerbyBorn wrote:

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

IME yes, its much stronger when kept "taught" by the mass of water in it.

Oh dear, I don't think this is going to increase my popularity,
'taut'. (It does mean you don't have to quote it really though).

:-) :-)

That's virgin on tautology.

On 29/12/2016 18:51, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2016 11:08, DerbyBorn wrote:

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

IME yes, its much stronger when kept "taught" by the mass of water in it.

Oh dear, I don't think this is going to increase my popularity,
'taut'. (It does mean you don't have to quote it really though).

:-) :-)

Apologies - fumbled it as I typed, and then took the first spell check
option without looking carefully enough!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On 30/12/2016 17:43, John Rumm wrote:
On 29/12/2016 18:51, Chris Green wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
On 28/12/2016 11:08, DerbyBorn wrote:

Ummm....if you have hot water, why do you have to replace the
immersion heater?

Or is this the best window of opportunity?

Cheers



Dave R


Best to leave it until you have a time when merchants are not going to
close.
Question for the experts - Is it preferable to try and crack it loose
whilst it is full of water - to avoid risk of damage to the cylinder???

IME yes, its much stronger when kept "taught" by the mass of water in
it.

Oh dear, I don't think this is going to increase my popularity,
'taut'. (It does mean you don't have to quote it really though).

:-) :-)

Apologies - fumbled it as I typed, and then took the first spell check
option without looking carefully enough!



That's taut you!

On 28/12/2016 18:30, GB wrote:
On 28/12/2016 18:20, harry wrote:

Removing an old immersion heater is easy.
I have removed dozens as an apprentice.
All you need is a hacksaw blade with one end taped up to form a handle.
Use this to saw out the fibre washer between the cylinder and the heater.
You need to go all the way round and all the way through.
You know you're through when you feel the blade skidding on the metal
of the immersion heater.

I did that, and it is exactly as you say. Afterwards, I read that fibre
washers of that era contain asbestos. Oh well, fingers crossed. You seem
to have survived ok.

Although it has left him barking mad! ;-)



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/