wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 09:00:57 UTC, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 01:40:34 UTC, tabby wrote:

I'm not going to do these myself, it's for people learning how to.

What size pipe can a standard blowtorch do?
What do you mean by a standard blow torch. (Meaningless term)

What size can a mini torch do?
Another meaningless term

What do you do with joints that fail to seal first time?
Add more flux and solder and reheat.

How would you flare a pipe end with minimal budget?
Not relevant to household plumbing.
Used more on car braking systems.

Flaring avoids buying a fitting, at the price of time
& work. I've seen it done on domestic piping.

Yeah, I have too.

What could be used as flux if you have a flux budget of 50p?
What could be used as a heat protecting mat on a budget of 10p?
You buy the proper stuff if you want to be successful.

I do. The question is how could it be done for much less.

You didnt say that initially.

Can loose sand be used to clean pipes before soldering?
It could with a lot more effort

Are you trolling?

No, I want to know how to solder pipes at
minimum cost for developing world use.

Then you should have said that.

I'll try sand cleaning a pipe, see if it works, I suspect
the sand will leave too much contamination.

No reason why it has to.

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for a tub of
flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped for cash.

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

On 04/12/2016 11:02, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Jeeze - how much is a ball of steel wool? Even a kitchen
scourer would probably work.

I read kitchen green scourers were actually recommended as wire wool can
leave steel crap in the pipe which damages boilers.

FWIW I tried a couple of weeks ago and green scourers do appear to work
quite quickly.

In article ,
writes:

No, I want to know how to solder pipes at minimum cost for developing world use. I'll try sand cleaning a pipe, see if it works, I suspect the sand will leave too much contamination.

I can tell you it jams solder fittings such that they won't budge
(without soldering). When I filled a 28mm pipe with dry sand to
bend it, I temporarily pushed capiliary endcaps on to stop the
sand running out. No way would either one come off afterwards (and
they were nowhere near the bend deformation). I had to cut the ends
off the pipe and chuck them with the end-caps. (Fortunately, I had
allowed spare pipe and not accurately measured the bend from an end.)

BTW, I cleaned the pipe afterwards by sucking a large cotton wool
ball through it many times with the vacuum cleaner.

The other way my old 'Working with copper' book gives for bending
pipe is to fill the pipe with molten lead and seal the ends. Then
bend it and the pressure in the lead will prevent it collapsing. It
wouldn't surprise me if that method was still used in the 3rd world.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
writes:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 17:27:40 UTC, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el art=C3=ADculo , MrCheerful
escribi=C3=B3:
=20
I bought some used slates in the dead right size for my roof (IIRC they=
=20
are called princess size) came to nigh on a pound each delivered (100 of=
em)
=20
OK, and how much would a broken one, usable as a cheapo plumbing heat
mat, have cost?
=20
It was only a suggestion, I'm sorry if it doesn't meet with your
approval

Slate's good if they can take direct fire. Can they?

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

I would suggest using something that has already been
fired such as a ceramic tile or a brick, which I suspect
is less likely to explode if heated again.
Eye protection still advisable though.

I expect you'll find pieces of asbestos sheet easily to
hand too in many places, although asbestos cement sheet
can blow apart with a loud pop in a fire and would not
be suitable, even if they are ignoring the long term
health risks.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 04/12/2016 19:06, Nick wrote:

I read kitchen green scourers were actually recommended as wire wool can
leave steel crap in the pipe which damages boilers.

FWIW I tried a couple of weeks ago and green scourers do appear to work
quite quickly.

You can use them even when they're "dead" with regards to scouring pots.

Only thing to e aware of is not to use them on hot pipe.
I'm pedantic about seeing a perfect bead of solder around the end of the
joint which often means a quick re-clean and touch-up after the initial
joint is made; green scourers melt.

En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

Slate is used in fireplace hearths, indeed my own fireplace has a slate
hearth.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

wrote
Andy Burns wrote
tabbypurr wrote

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but
not £5 for a tub of flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Copper pipe plumbing is used in the developing world,

Much more often steel plumbing is, for a reason.

And plastic plumbing in spades now.

albeit not as widely as here. An unnecessary £5 spend is out of the
question.

BULL****.

On 04/12/2016 19:20, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
writes:

No, I want to know how to solder pipes at minimum cost for developing world use. I'll try sand cleaning a pipe, see if it works, I suspect the sand will leave too much contamination.

I can tell you it jams solder fittings such that they won't budge
(without soldering). When I filled a 28mm pipe with dry sand to
bend it, I temporarily pushed capiliary endcaps on to stop the
sand running out. No way would either one come off afterwards (and
they were nowhere near the bend deformation). I had to cut the ends
off the pipe and chuck them with the end-caps. (Fortunately, I had
allowed spare pipe and not accurately measured the bend from an end.)

BTW, I cleaned the pipe afterwards by sucking a large cotton wool
ball through it many times with the vacuum cleaner.

The other way my old 'Working with copper' book gives for bending
pipe is to fill the pipe with molten lead and seal the ends. Then
bend it and the pressure in the lead will prevent it collapsing. It
wouldn't surprise me if that method was still used in the 3rd world.


oh yes, quick, convenient and safe, love it.

On 04/12/2016 19:45, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

Slate is used in fireplace hearths, indeed my own fireplace has a slate
hearth.


I have seen slate explode when hot.
I have also seen asbestos cement explode in a fire (1).
Don't assume that non-combustable makes it 100% safe in a fire.


As ~7 year old my brother and I decided to play firemen and set fire to
our sisters dolls house up the garden, the roof went with a very big
bang and bits went everywhere. The sister wasn't happy. 8-)

"Rod Speed" wrote in message ...



"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for a tub of
flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped for cash.

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

They stole the plumbing already. Just need solder and other stuff.

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 18:56:47 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 11:04:08 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr writes:

I'm not going to do these myself, it's for people learning how to.

What size pipe can a standard blowtorch do?

I've done 28mm without any difficulty, providing cylinder isn't
getting close to empty (in which case power output noticably drops,
but it will still do 22mm and 15mm).

What size can a mini torch do?

No idea - I never tried to use one for plumbing, and how
small is *mini*? I suspect my Aldi one might do 8mm if I
tried.

What do you do with joints that fail to seal first time?

Depends on the situation, and why it failed.
Fortunately, it's not something that happens to me often.

How would you flare a pipe end with minimal budget?

I have a flaring tool. I wouldn't try without one (and I
rarely use it anyway, and ISTR it's not allowed for gas
use).

What could be used as flux if you have a flux budget of 50p?
What could be used as a heat protecting mat on a budget of 10p?

If that's all you've got, you won't be able to afford any
proper tools/fittings, so forget about plumbing.

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world.

You should have said that.

In hindsight I agree.

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

They are useless for plumbing.

That's odd, all the old school writing on it I read when I was a kid said to use killed spirits, which is ZnCl. And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.


A heat mat of wet cardboard sandwiched between opened
flat food tins works, someone might have a better idea.

I use offcuts of what we call fibro. Works fine.

Do you know exactly what it is? Presumably cement adhered fibres of some sort.


NT

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:04:56 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
tabbypurr wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for a tub of
flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped for cash..

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

There certainly is a logic failure. At the risk of stating the obvious, plastic is used where it will do, steel is used where it will do, bamboo is used where it will do etc. Copper is used when it is needed.


NT

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:57:10 UTC, MrCheerful wrote:
On 04/12/2016 19:20, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr writes:

No, I want to know how to solder pipes at minimum cost for developing world use. I'll try sand cleaning a pipe, see if it works, I suspect the sand will leave too much contamination.

I can tell you it jams solder fittings such that they won't budge
(without soldering). When I filled a 28mm pipe with dry sand to
bend it, I temporarily pushed capiliary endcaps on to stop the
sand running out. No way would either one come off afterwards (and
they were nowhere near the bend deformation). I had to cut the ends
off the pipe and chuck them with the end-caps. (Fortunately, I had
allowed spare pipe and not accurately measured the bend from an end.)

BTW, I cleaned the pipe afterwards by sucking a large cotton wool
ball through it many times with the vacuum cleaner.

The other way my old 'Working with copper' book gives for bending
pipe is to fill the pipe with molten lead and seal the ends. Then
bend it and the pressure in the lead will prevent it collapsing. It
wouldn't surprise me if that method was still used in the 3rd world.


oh yes, quick, convenient and safe, love it.

I'd not heard of that one before. I've seen ice used. Not sure but I think it had a bit of washing up liquid in it.


NT

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:58:31 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/12/2016 19:45, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

Slate is used in fireplace hearths, indeed my own fireplace has a slate
hearth.


I have seen slate explode when hot.
I have also seen asbestos cement explode in a fire (1).
Don't assume that non-combustable makes it 100% safe in a fire.

Cement asbestos sheet explodes in a fire IIRC, as does cement & sand sheet. Floppy asbestos works great, but I can't recommend that.


NT

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
news
On 04/12/16 13:49, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 11:36:26 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
tabbypurr wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for a tub
of flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Copper pipe plumbing is used in the developing world, albeit not as
widely as here. An unnecessary £5 spend is out of the question.



Copper pipe is an unncessary £25 spend then

Use bamboo.

They actually use plastic, like everyone else does now.

On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:57:05 +0000, MrCheerful wrote:

oh yes, quick, convenient and safe, love it.

They make springs for that very purpose. **** messing around with molten
lead!

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
news
In article ,
writes:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 17:27:40 UTC, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el art=C3=ADculo , MrCheerful
escribi=C3=B3:
=20
I bought some used slates in the dead right size for my roof (IIRC
they=
=20
are called princess size) came to nigh on a pound each delivered (100
of=
em)
=20
OK, and how much would a broken one, usable as a cheapo plumbing heat
mat, have cost?
=20
It was only a suggestion, I'm sorry if it doesn't meet with your
approval

Slate's good if they can take direct fire. Can they?

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

I would suggest using something that has already been
fired such as a ceramic tile or a brick, which I suspect
is less likely to explode if heated again.
Eye protection still advisable though.

I expect you'll find pieces of asbestos sheet easily to
hand too in many places, although asbestos cement
sheet can blow apart with a loud pop in a fire

It works fine behind something you are soldering.

and would not be suitable,

It is actually.

even if they are ignoring the long term health risks.

There are no long term health risks with the current stuff
and those in the third world are unlikely to care anyway.

On 12/4/2016 9:00 AM, harry wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 01:40:34 UTC, wrote:
I'm not going to do these myself, it's for people learning how to.

What size pipe can a standard blowtorch do?
What do you mean by a standard blow torch. (Meaningless term)

What size can a mini torch do?
Another meaningless term

What do you do with joints that fail to seal first time?
Add more flux and solder and reheat.

How would you flare a pipe end with minimal budget?
Not relevant to household plumbing.
Used more on car braking systems.

There is a (sort of) flaring tool sold by BES which is hammered into the
end of a length of 15 mm copper pipe, swageing it out so that it can be
soldered to another length without a coupling.

On 12/4/2016 12:04 PM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , MrCheerful
escribió:

So
he installed barbed wire instead, still carried the current and had
little value as scrap.

I like it

So do I!

On 12/4/2016 8:57 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:57:05 +0000, MrCheerful wrote:

oh yes, quick, convenient and safe, love it.

They make springs for that very purpose. **** messing around with molten
lead!

No, springs are a PITA. Rather than lead, use Cerrobend or Wood's metal.

"Richard" wrote in message
news
"Rod Speed" wrote in message ...



"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for a tub
of flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped for cash.

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

They stole the plumbing already. Just need solder and other stuff.

No reason why they can't steal that too.

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 18:56:47 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 11:04:08 UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr writes:

I'm not going to do these myself, it's for people learning how to.

What size pipe can a standard blowtorch do?

I've done 28mm without any difficulty, providing cylinder isn't
getting close to empty (in which case power output noticably drops,
but it will still do 22mm and 15mm).

What size can a mini torch do?

No idea - I never tried to use one for plumbing, and how
small is *mini*? I suspect my Aldi one might do 8mm if I
tried.

What do you do with joints that fail to seal first time?

Depends on the situation, and why it failed.
Fortunately, it's not something that happens to me often.

How would you flare a pipe end with minimal budget?

I have a flaring tool. I wouldn't try without one (and I
rarely use it anyway, and ISTR it's not allowed for gas
use).

What could be used as flux if you have a flux budget of 50p?
What could be used as a heat protecting mat on a budget of 10p?

If that's all you've got, you won't be able to afford any
proper tools/fittings, so forget about plumbing.

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world.

You should have said that.

In hindsight I agree.

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

They are useless for plumbing.

That's odd, all the old school writing on it I read when
I was a kid said to use killed spirits, which is ZnCl.

Yeah, my brain fart there, I didnt register that one.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

A heat mat of wet cardboard sandwiched between opened
flat food tins works, someone might have a better idea.

I use offcuts of what we call fibro. Works fine.

Do you know exactly what it is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_cement
Very common indeed in the third world, when
they dont use corrugated iron which gets stinking
hot in the summer and ****ing cold in the winter.

Presumably cement adhered fibres of some sort.

Yeah, and in the first world hasnt had asbestos in it since
the mid 70s. Presumably it still does in the third world.

We have recently had some stuff turn up from china with asbestos
in it, used in building, which had to be removed and replaced.

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 21:32:53 UTC, newshound wrote:
On 12/4/2016 8:57 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 04 Dec 2016 19:57:05 +0000, MrCheerful wrote:

oh yes, quick, convenient and safe, love it.

They make springs for that very purpose. **** messing around with molten
lead!

No, springs are a PITA. Rather than lead, use Cerrobend or Wood's metal.

very toxic.


NT

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:04:56 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
tabbypurr wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for a tub
of
flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped for
cash.

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

There certainly is a logic failure.

Yep.

At the risk of stating the obvious, plastic is used where it will do,

Which is almost always now, particularly
when price is important in the third world.

steel is used where it will do,

Which is everywhere, particularly when you dont care about
the much higher labour involved in threading the pipe etc.

bamboo is used where it will do etc.

I'd be surprised if its used much at all anymore given that
plastic is so cheap and works anywhere where bamboo does.

I bet its only the worst of the stupid greeny survivalists
that use bamboo for plumbing much anymore.

Copper is used when it is needed.

It isnt ever needed in the third world except in industrial
situations where the cost of the flux and steel wool to
clean it isnt going to be a consideration.

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:58:31 UTC, dennis@home wrote:
On 04/12/2016 19:45, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

Slate is used in fireplace hearths, indeed my own fireplace has a slate
hearth.


I have seen slate explode when hot.
I have also seen asbestos cement explode in a fire (1).
Don't assume that non-combustable makes it 100% safe in a fire.

Cement asbestos sheet explodes in a fire IIRC,
as does cement & sand sheet.

But not when used behind something being soldered.

That's what the pros use here even when
brazing with an oxy torch instead of soldering.

Floppy asbestos works great, but I can't recommend that.

Best not to in the third world where
it almost certainly still is asbestos.

Not that its all that dangerous in that situation.

Mate of mine used to do maintenance work in submarines, and
they used to throw loose asbestos at each other. Hardly any of
them ended up with asbestosis and he died of something else.

On 04/12/16 19:45, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

Slate is used in fireplace hearths, indeed my own fireplace has a slate
hearth.

Fireplace hearths do not get very hot

Its the firebacks that take the punishment


--
The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all
private property.

Karl Marx

On 04/12/16 20:22, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:04:56 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
tabbypurr wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for
a tub of flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped
for cash..

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

There certainly is a logic failure. At the risk of stating the
obvious, plastic is used where it will do, steel is used where it
will do, bamboo is used where it will do etc. Copper is used when it
is needed.


And solder is used when it is needed and blowlamps are used when its
needed and wire wool is used when its needed and flux is used when its
needed and soldering mats are used when they are needed.....


NT



--
"If you dont read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 21:52:27 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 18:56:47 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message
...

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

They are useless for plumbing.

That's odd, all the old school writing on it I read when
I was a kid said to use killed spirits, which is ZnCl.

Yeah, my brain fart there, I didnt register that one.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

it's easy to get from scrap wood. I've not tried it with a blowtorch.

A heat mat of wet cardboard sandwiched between opened
flat food tins works, someone might have a better idea.

I use offcuts of what we call fibro. Works fine.

Do you know exactly what it is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_cement
Very common indeed in the third world, when
they dont use corrugated iron which gets stinking
hot in the summer and ****ing cold in the winter.

Presumably cement adhered fibres of some sort.

Yeah, and in the first world hasnt had asbestos in it since
the mid 70s. Presumably it still does in the third world.

We have recently had some stuff turn up from china with asbestos
in it, used in building, which had to be removed and replaced.

Asbestos is still common in developing countries. I've seen asbestos manufacturing workers taking no precautions at all - the stuff gets everywhere.


NT

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 21:52:28 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message

Copper is used when it is needed.

It isnt ever needed in the third world except in industrial
situations

precisely, it is used.

where the cost of the flux and steel wool to
clean it isnt going to be a consideration.

ha ha


NT

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 22:32:58 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/12/16 20:22, tabbypurr wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 19:04:56 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
tabbypurr wrote:

These questions are for plumbing in the developing world

So they can afford 28mm copper tube at £20/length but not £5 for
a tub of flux that will do hundreds of joints?

Yeah, real logic failure there.

Plastic plumbing makes a lot more sense if you are that strapped
for cash..

Or steel plumbing if that isnt feasible for some reason.

There certainly is a logic failure. At the risk of stating the
obvious, plastic is used where it will do, steel is used where it
will do, bamboo is used where it will do etc. Copper is used when it
is needed.


And solder is used when it is needed and blowlamps are used when its
needed and wire wool is used when its needed and flux is used when its
needed and soldering mats are used when they are needed.....

You're a mine of useful information.


NT

On 04/12/16 23:03, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 22:32:58 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/12/16 20:22, tabbypurr wrote:
At the risk of stating the
obvious, plastic is used where it will do, steel is used where it
will do, bamboo is used where it will do etc. Copper is used when it
is needed.


And solder is used when it is needed and blowlamps are used when its
needed and wire wool is used when its needed and flux is used when its
needed and soldering mats are used when they are needed.....

You're a mine of useful information.


You're a mine of illogical statements.



NT



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

On 04/12/16 23:02, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 21:52:28 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote in message

Copper is used when it is needed.

It isnt ever needed in the third world except in industrial
situations

precisely, it is used.

where the cost of the flux and steel wool to
clean it isnt going to be a consideration.

ha ha


We have already demonstrated that to be true.

You can buy a blowlamp solder, flux, and as mat and some wire wool for
less than the cost of a 50m length of copper pipe.



NT



--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

They are useless for plumbing.

That's odd, all the old school writing on it I read when
I was a kid said to use killed spirits, which is ZnCl.

Yeah, my brain fart there, I didnt register that one.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

it's easy to get from scrap wood.

That isnt what is used with electronics and it isnt
easy to get enough to use with plumbing either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin#Production

I've not tried it with a blowtorch.

That's obvious, it will just burn.

A heat mat of wet cardboard sandwiched between opened
flat food tins works, someone might have a better idea.

I use offcuts of what we call fibro. Works fine.

Do you know exactly what it is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos_cement
Very common indeed in the third world, when
they dont use corrugated iron which gets stinking
hot in the summer and ****ing cold in the winter.

Presumably cement adhered fibres of some sort.

Yeah, and in the first world hasnt had asbestos in it since
the mid 70s. Presumably it still does in the third world.

We have recently had some stuff turn up from china with asbestos
in it, used in building, which had to be removed and replaced.

Asbestos is still common in developing countries.

Yeah, that's what I said.

I've seen asbestos manufacturing workers taking
no precautions at all - the stuff gets everywhere.

And they are likely smokers to, which makes it much worse.

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote

Copper is used when it is needed.

It isnt ever needed in the third world except in industrial situations

precisely, it is used.

But only where the extra cost of the flux and steel wool doesnt
matter because the cost of the copper is so much higher.

where the cost of the flux and steel wool to
clean it isnt going to be a consideration.

ha ha

You never could bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.

In article ,
Tim Lamb writes:
In message . com,
lid writes
On 04/12/2016 19:45, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel
escribió:

I would be careful about the surface exploding out.
Slate is formed by compression, not by firing.

Slate is used in fireplace hearths, indeed my own fireplace has a slate
hearth.


I have seen slate explode when hot.
I have also seen asbestos cement explode in a fire (1).
Don't assume that non-combustable makes it 100% safe in a fire.


As ~7 year old my brother and I decided to play firemen and set fire to
our sisters dolls house up the garden, the roof went with a very big
bang and bits went everywhere. The sister wasn't happy. 8-)

I think heated asbestos cement roofing *explodes* due to steam forming
within the sheet.

Sounds very plausible.
In this case, even when using fired products (ceramic tiles, bricks,
etc), make sure it has a very low absorbancy (e.g. engineering brick)
so there isn't going to be water under the surface to blow out.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On Sunday, 4 December 2016 23:39:12 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

it's easy to get from scrap wood.

That isnt what is used with electronics and it isnt
easy to get enough to use with plumbing either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin#Production

it's easier to harvest than that

I've not tried it with a blowtorch.

That's obvious, it will just burn.

I guess so. ZnCl looks the most likely candidate.


NT

On 05/12/16 00:23, wrote:
On Sunday, 4 December 2016 23:39:12 UTC, Rod Speed wrote:
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

it's easy to get from scrap wood.

That isnt what is used with electronics and it isnt
easy to get enough to use with plumbing either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin#Production

it's easier to harvest than that

I've not tried it with a blowtorch.

That's obvious, it will just burn.

I guess so. ZnCl looks the most likely candidate.

Ah. Bakers fluid. Considerably more expensive than normal plumbers flux.

Why am I not surprised?


NT



--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

it's easy to get from scrap wood.

That isnt what is used with electronics and it isnt
easy to get enough to use with plumbing either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin#Production

it's easier to harvest than that

But isnt any use when soldering plumbing when you do.

I've not tried it with a blowtorch.

That's obvious, it will just burn.

I guess so. ZnCl looks the most likely candidate.

Yeah, that would certainly be viable and easy to do too.

The Natural Philosopher wrote
wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote
Rod Speed wrote
tabbypurr wrote

Flux possibilities include tallow, soap, ZnCl, rosin, and
who kows what else. But I've not tried them with plumbing.

And I've used rosin plenty with electronics.

Not sure its viable with plumbing and
isnt likely to be any cheaper than flux.

it's easy to get from scrap wood.

That isnt what is used with electronics and it isnt
easy to get enough to use with plumbing either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosin#Production

it's easier to harvest than that

I've not tried it with a blowtorch.

That's obvious, it will just burn.

I guess so. ZnCl looks the most likely candidate.

Ah. Bakers fluid. Considerably more expensive than normal plumbers flux.

But easy to do cheaply yourself in a third world country.

Why am I not surprised?