On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:40:52 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:



So you can put as much equipment in the house as you like, and wire it all
together properly or otherwise, and I still bet I can stop your property
from ever being a target in the first place with use of simple screw on
devices that look nasty to any would be intruder.

Such as ???
..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On 17 Jan 2004, PJO wrote



As a matter of interest, how would you do that?
.andy

With a little skill and care, the proper tools and most
importantly... experience.

So you're not willing to describe it, even in outline?

Just "trust me, I'm a pro and I know how to do this"?

No thanks.

--
Cheers,
Harvey

For e-mail, change harvey to whhvs.

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 20:40:52 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:



So you can put as much equipment in the house as you like, and wire it
all
together properly or otherwise, and I still bet I can stop your property
from ever being a target in the first place with use of simple screw on
devices that look nasty to any would be intruder.

Such as ???
.andy



If I tell you, then I'd have to kill you so it didn't go any further. :-))

In article ,
PJO wrote:


Many do do it properly. I could have fitted your front door contact in
the proper place WITHOUT chasing or re-decorating! That's doing it
right. Your way probably took 10 times longer than my way too. Perhaps
it's called training?!!

You must be some magician if you can conceal cables totally without
chasing them in. Nor would I even consider a wireless type - even if they
had been available when I installed it.

snip

Well, once in 10 years will still be better than several times a year.

But it won't just be once will it?! It'll be lots of times while you try
and fathom what it is causing the problem. OR are they all on independant
zones??!!

Fathom it out? The remote panel at the front door tells me which zone - if
any - is not 'set'. And can be isolated from there if necessary.
Tell me, does it take *you* ages to fathom out a simple fault like this?

FWIW, they're still listed by TLC.

WHHYT too though? And FFGHT. AND what's TLC?

You're not well up on electrics, are you? It's an electrical wholesaler
often mentioned on here.


If they did go wrong, it would be a simple matter (for me) to isolate
them since they work via a home made relay interface.

Oh, right. A home made relay interface eh? That's secure innit?! Can you
bake little butterfly cakes too?

Yes, it is every bit as secure as the main panel - perhaps more so. Of
course, I wouldn't expect you to be able to design such thing, let alone
understand it.

I'm talking about probabilities, not exceptions.

And as a security advisor I'm talking about both.

I'm glad I took advice from a true professional, then, the local crime
prevention officer.

As for securing the frame. Yes I agree - it's difficult. In the past
I have used ally angle which the bead fits over to hide it. Very
effective indeedie!

Looking at the front doors and frames they fit in 'problem' council
estates, etc, it would need more than a bit of angle ally to stop a
determined thief. Plate steel seems more like it. But at the end of the
day, given time and not being overlooked, you can get through near
anything.

When I worked on the security team for a major alarm company we used
brass, concrete, steel, ally, titanium plate, etc. The risk was high and
money no object though. Not like your average semi! Good home security
using proper pucker equipment needn't cost the earth. The problem with
most people, especially DIYers is that they just hate spending money on
it. Hence cheap crap equipment sold by B&Q, Wickes, etc. sells plenty.
Once major retail chain is still selling an alarm system with a plug in
PSU. Another uses PP3 batteries for the backup. The problem is the great
buying public. They're gullible an ill informed most of the time.

Could well be. But like everything else, speed and cost of
installation seems to be the prime consideration, rather than making a
decent job. Same as kitchen fitters etc.

Why are you digressing so much? From what you have posted in this thread
I can judge that you have made a pig awful job of designeing and
installing your alarm system. No cables on show maybe, but the system is
crap and you took too long messing about instead of just buying proper
dedicated equipment and doing the job like a pro would. Or do you think
the way you did it, with your home made relay interface, chasing and
re-decoration is better?

It works well and has done since it was installed with zero problems.
Not, luckily, that it's ever been needed in anger. And I take it then
your work *is* too the same standard as all the others - cables
everywhere, or just tucked underneath carpets? Personally, I'd rather be
burgled than look at that sort of a mess all day...

I didn't for one moment *actually* think otherwise. ;-) But I'd say
you're in the minority in your trade.

Agreed. And it's no longer my trade.

Perhaps the 'new' fad for wood floors taxed your cable hiding ability
too much?

I'm certainly interested in what you say, as being a self installed
system it would be easy for me to alter it to the latest standards.

Disagree. The latest EC standards for intruder alarms are exeptionally
stringent. I can't say I agree with them and in fact I absolutely
disagree with most of the new regs but that the way it is. Trust me,
your home made relay interface and pressure pads don't even scratch the
surface!

So you know better than the relevant standards makers too? Figures.

I'm afraid I'm putting you in the same box as IMM - full of theories and
hot air.

--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
PJO wrote:
As a matter of interest, how would you do that?
.andy

With a little skill and care, the proper tools and most importantly...
experience.

IMM is alive and well.

--
*Don't squat with your spurs on *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

If I tell you, then I'd have to kill you so it didn't go any further.
:-))


Roughly translated - he's talking through his arse.

I realise that, but I was rather hoping that you might enlarge on
exactly how, to the benefit of the assembled gathering....

Each and ever job is done at ht etime and to suit. There are no specific
rules or ways so no, sorry, I can't help. I'd literally have to show you.


Low voltage wiring for the purposes of alarms, networking and the like
is increasingly popular and I am sure that the group would welcome
information on ways to install cables etc. with minimum visual impact
or the need to redecorate.

Again, using proper tools, patience and skill. Metre long drills,
flexidrills and wire coat hangers usually suffice!

So you're not willing to describe it, even in outline?

I can't sescribe in words, sorry. Try learning any practical trade from a
book and you'll understand.

Just "trust me, I'm a pro and I know how to do this"?

No thanks.

Christ, I didn't say YOU HAVE to believe me!

Tell you what, describe to me here on this group how to strip wall paper. In
words I (and everyone else) can understand. Then tell me how to paint,
plumb, wire, etc. All in words.

Get the point? Have you got time?!

"Peter V" wrote in message
...
Could fit a perimeter system with inertias on windows etc,
"|^eekaye" wrote in message
...
Harry Bloomfield vomited Alarm advice with cats in mind. onto my velour:

On 15/01/2004 Mortimer opined:-
What sort of alarm system should I go for, PIRs seem simple to
source and install but are there any that ignore cats and only react
to humans?

No, but you could probably site them so that they wouldn't 'see' a cat
on the ground. Even a bit of black insulation tape is enough, when
placed across the lens to restrict the field of view of a PIR.


Good idea Harry.

A load of ******** as far as I'm concerned.

"PJO" wrote in message
...



If I tell you, then I'd have to kill you so it didn't go any further.
:-))


Roughly translated - he's talking through his arse.



You stick to fitting the systems and I'll stick to making properties secure.

Roughly translated to - Shut the f*^k up.

Roughly translated - he's talking through his arse.



You stick to fitting the systems and I'll stick to making properties
secure.

How?

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:08:13 -0000, "PJO"
wrote:

Again, using proper tools, patience and skill. Metre long drills,
flexidrills and wire coat hangers usually suffice!

I'm not sure this question is related to what you have said, but I'll
ask it anyway.

The metre long drill....do I assume that you drill across the width of
a door or window in order to run the cable thru the door from a
magnetic switch to the hinge side?

I'd be interested to know how you manage to keep the drill lined up
with the door!

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

"PJO" wrote in message
...
Roughly translated - he's talking through his arse.



You stick to fitting the systems and I'll stick to making properties
secure.

How?



If I start to tell folks how a professional installs security equipment then
it wouldn't be very secure. Would it ? Electronic security is, and always
has been, the last line of defence in all security systems. So having an
alarm today with all the DIY products on the market, is like having a flag
telling people you have things they want to steal from you.

You, yourself, should know how easy it is to fool an alarm system into
thinking it is not being attacked, and on that point it is not possible to
be one hundred percent sure that your system is going to be effective in
preventing someone from attacking you property.

If you don't know how these procedures work, then I'll say again, you stick
to fitting the electronic systems, and I'll stick to making property secure.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:21:57 GMT, "BigWallop"
wrote:


"PJO" wrote in message
...
Roughly translated - he's talking through his arse.



You stick to fitting the systems and I'll stick to making properties
secure.

How?



If I start to tell folks how a professional installs security equipment then
it wouldn't be very secure. Would it ?

Oh come on, that's a pretty poor argument.

It isn't as though we are talking about the ultrasecret (aka British
knowledge of Enigma during WW2) is it?

Alarm installers and security consultants are not part of some secret
brotherhood with initiation rituals are they?

As somebody already said, it becomes a question of the perceived or
actual value of the prize, and then making and maintaining the counter
measures to achieve an acceptable level of risk, considering the
miscreants that are likely to attack the target.

Obfuscation is one way of achieving a level of security, but not a
particularly effective one.

It does seem that your points are understandably about protecting a
commercial business or trade against the onslaught of DIY.

That's fine, but at the end of the day, the market is the market.
Some people will call in professional installers and pay the money,
others will put in what they can buy in the DIY sheds as cheaply as
possible. In the middle, there are people who would like to select
and buy professional materials and install them themselves armed with
an appropriate level of knowledge.

I was hoping that you might have had some useful information to impart
to this latter group, who are not setting out to secure a bank, but
who are not going to employ a professional.

Using your own point about information, if I fit various security
measures to my property that are a subset of a vast menu, then I know
about them and nobody else. If I employ a professional, then at
least one more person knows about them, and if it is a professional
installation is undoubtedly also documented somewhere.


..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
Alarm installers and security consultants are not part of some secret
brotherhood with initiation rituals are they?

Still nobody has given the magic answer to how to conceal a cable from a
door sensor without chasing.
I can only draw the conclusion that PJO has a bendy drill, or loves RF
wireless.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

If you don't know how these procedures work, then I'll say again, you
stick
to fitting the electronic systems, and I'll stick to making property
secure.

Nice cop-out.

Using your own point about information, if I fit various security
measures to my property that are a subset of a vast menu, then I know
about them and nobody else. If I employ a professional, then at
least one more person knows about them, and if it is a professional
installation is undoubtedly also documented somewhere.

A very valid point. I can remember around 12 years ago a rather well known
London based alarm company sent in an engineer to do some routine service
work on a customers alarm system. While there, the engineer shorted out some
detectors and that night the place was screwed by his mates. The engineer
fully expected to be returned to the job to hide his work but tragically for
him a different engineer was sent who then discovered the shorts. The
engineer ended up in clink and the companies reputation throughout the
industry was severely damaged.

And that also brings me back to the point I raised above of it being an
absolute must to have anti-tamper wiring to ALL parts of the system. PIR's
etc are very easy to short out once you have the lid off.

So yes, involving any third party, inc. professional companies, does involve
some risk.

Still nobody has given the magic answer to how to conceal a cable from a
door sensor without chasing.
I can only draw the conclusion that PJO has a bendy drill, or loves RF
wireless.

Yes, I do have a bendy drill. Bought it in USA years ago. It bends to around
30 degrees.

OK, here's a rough "how to" (without a bendy!)

If it's a concealed type contact fit it approx 4 inches up the frame. Drill
the necessary 20mm hole and then use a 16 inch drill (readily available) to
drill down through the 20mm hole to floor level. Drill a suitable hole into
the skirting at floor level and then simply fish the cable. If there is a
floor void then drill all the way down into that and fish from under. For
top mounted contacts drill the 20mm home in the head and then use a long
drill (1 metre drills are also readily available) to drill up through the
wall/plaster until you reach the next floor/loft level and then fish the
cable accordingly. If the contact is surface, i.e. on a PVC door, then you
can use the same methods but you may have to silicone up the fish holes.

That is a very brief explanation for the guy who does not believe and like I
said earlier I have installed thousands of systems and never once have I
shown a cable.

Think about it... most systems are contacts and PIR's. Drilling door frames
as above hides the contact cables. Windows (if you really must) can be done
similar. As for PIR's, fit them at ceiling height of just below the coving
and again drill up at an angle into the floor/loft space and fish. Try to
bring all wiring from above. Try to install the panel upstairs in a
cupboard/wardrobe and a keypad downstairs. With some fore thought you can
have a super neat installation which is quicker than clipping cables all
over the place. Also try to use ID systems to minimise wiring. I can install
a decent system in a four bed detached - 6 PIR's, front door, a couple of
PA's, etc - in just one full day. The average DIYer should certainly be able
to do it PROPERLY in a weekend!

I'm not sure this question is related to what you have said, but I'll
ask it anyway.

The metre long drill....do I assume that you drill across the width of
a door or window in order to run the cable thru the door from a
magnetic switch to the hinge side?

I'd be interested to know how you manage to keep the drill lined up
with the door!

PoP

Christ no. The long drills are used to drill through frames into floor
spaces or up through plaster work. See my other post explaining.

On saying that though drilling through doors used to be a common task when
switched locks were popular years ago. A switch in a chubb lock would be
used to isolate an area such as a spirit store in a pub. Most engineers
would fit the lock and bring the cable out onto the door and then clip or
trunk it across the door to the hinge side. We used to drill all the way
through and out through the opposite edge. Then a small hole into the door
brought the cable into a door loop box and hey presto - a super neat job
with no cables showing! The only give away being a small hole on the hinged
edge which is easily filled and probably will never be seen anyway.

How did we keep the drill straight? With patience and by using a short drill
until it ran out, then a longer, then an longer, etc.

The drills we used for this we had made. A simply 10mm drill extended with a
bar and welded. You can't buy long wood drills whereas you can buy 1m long
masonry drills.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Using your own point about information, if I fit various security
measures to my property that are a subset of a vast menu, then I know
about them and nobody else. If I employ a professional, then at
least one more person knows about them, and if it is a professional
installation is undoubtedly also documented somewhere.

Absolutely. If a 'pro' like PJO was asked to fix a fault on my system with
the home made relay interface, he'd run a mile. Pros like to deal with
things they know and understand. With a security system, this ain't
necessarily a good idea given that a 'pro' burglar who could defeat such
things will have had to learn his 'trade' somewhere too...

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

You must be some magician if you can conceal cables totally without
chasing them in. Nor would I even consider a wireless type - even if they
had been available when I installed it.

No, just experienced.

Fathom it out? The remote panel at the front door tells me which zone - if
any - is not 'set'. And can be isolated from there if necessary.
Tell me, does it take *you* ages to fathom out a simple fault like this?

Oh so you have a suitable high-tec panel with multiple annunciation and yet
connect it to a home made relay interface! Ok.

You're not well up on electrics, are you? It's an electrical wholesaler
often mentioned on here.

No, I'm not up on electrics. I'm well up on alarms and security though and
that is exactly what this thread is all about! Sorry but I only know of
proper pucker alarm wholesalers - not sell-it-alls.

If they did go wrong, it would be a simple matter (for me) to isolate
them since they work via a home made relay interface.

Oh, right. A home made relay interface eh? That's secure innit?! Can you
bake little butterfly cakes too?

Yes, it is every bit as secure as the main panel - perhaps more so. Of
course, I wouldn't expect you to be able to design such thing, let alone
understand it.

Oh dear... here we go! The last time I played with relays was late 70's. I
dropped them in favout of IC's. Maybe you need to do the same.

I'm talking about probabilities, not exceptions.

And as a security advisor I'm talking about both.

I'm glad I took advice from a true professional, then, the local crime
prevention officer.

WHAT???? a CPO???!!! They know the square root of **** all about alarm
systems. They know the bare basics and that's it. They give basic advice and
then a list of professional installers. How do I know? cos not only have I
dealt with them for 25 years I also worked with then as a support officer
for 4 years when the job became civvy.

In article ,
PJO wrote:
You must be some magician if you can conceal cables totally without
chasing them in. Nor would I even consider a wireless type - even if
they had been available when I installed it.

No, just experienced.

From a distance. Your method described elsewhere wouldn't have worked in
my situation - do you *really* think I'd have chased the cable in if all
that was needed was a longer drill - which I have in any case?

Fathom it out? The remote panel at the front door tells me which zone
- if any - is not 'set'. And can be isolated from there if necessary.
Tell me, does it take *you* ages to fathom out a simple fault like
this?

Oh so you have a suitable high-tec panel with multiple annunciation and
yet connect it to a home made relay interface! Ok.

I'm not going to bother explaining why to one with a closed mind.

You're not well up on electrics, are you? It's an electrical
wholesaler often mentioned on here.

No, I'm not up on electrics. I'm well up on alarms and security though
and that is exactly what this thread is all about! Sorry but I only know
of proper pucker alarm wholesalers - not sell-it-alls.

Err, if you don't know the company, how can you know what they do and
don't supply? Closed mind again.

If they did go wrong, it would be a simple matter (for me) to
isolate them since they work via a home made relay interface.

Oh, right. A home made relay interface eh? That's secure innit?! Can
you bake little butterfly cakes too?

Yes, it is every bit as secure as the main panel - perhaps more so. Of
course, I wouldn't expect you to be able to design such thing, let
alone understand it.

Oh dear... here we go! The last time I played with relays was late 70's.
I dropped them in favout of IC's. Maybe you need to do the same.

I'd suggest you learn a bit about electronics. A relay isn't necessarily a
mechanical device. And in any case, mechanical relays are still very much
in evidence as they are far more robust to contact abuse than a solid
state equivalent.

I'm talking about probabilities, not exceptions.

And as a security advisor I'm talking about both.

I'm glad I took advice from a true professional, then, the local crime
prevention officer.

WHAT???? a CPO???!!! They know the square root of **** all about alarm
systems. They know the bare basics and that's it. They give basic advice
and then a list of professional installers. How do I know? cos not only
have I dealt with them for 25 years I also worked with then as a support
officer for 4 years when the job became civvy.

You don't seem to support them very well, then. They also appear to know
FA - as does everyone but you.

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:03:26 UTC, Dave Plowman
wrote:

In article ,
PJO wrote:
As a matter of interest, how would you do that?
.andy

With a little skill and care, the proper tools and most importantly...
experience.

IMM is alive and well.

No, he's just jealously guarding teh knowledge so he can charge lots of
money...

Apropos of which, who's read Deathworld 2 by Harry Harrison? (there is a
a connection, unless I mis-remember and it's Deathworld 3).

--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325*4; PS/2s 9585, 8595, 9595*2, 8580*3,
P70...

"PJO" wrote in message ...
No worries If I'm wrong keep saying, and together we all learn.

Indeed we all will.

Well I accept much of what you say, just 1 or 2 questions.


As for window foil. It's outdated by many other forms of setection such
as
curtain PIR's etc. You can't even buy the proper foil and blocks these
days.

It is around, just not popular. Google. Also, copper adhesive foil
used in lead window making can be used effectively.

No, what's still around is self adhesive alluminium crap. Proper window foil
was lead and not self adhesive.

Trust me, no alarm company uses foil
these days. OK odd job yes but it's just not used as a general rule.

So its not popular but does still get used at times, and aluminium and
copper foils are still available. Looks like we agree.


Burglar identifying paints?? Don't think so. You've been watching too
much
007!

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...52567&id=16822

That's anti-clime paint - not identifying paint! So, it marks the burglars
hands black. Does that mean that when I next do an oil change on my car and
end up with black hands I'd better avoid being seen in public?!

Deter and prevent yes. Help catch - no. Not at all. A simple wip with a rag
and it's gone.

It gets on both hands and clothes. You can wipe your hands but you
cant wipe goo off your clothes as easy as that. Those of us whove done
decorating know that you can be as careful as you like, paint still
tends to wander and turn up where its not expected.

Thus this black goo is likely to be on the burglar until they get
home. If the police turn up at time of incident and pick someone up,
either on premises or off, the presence of this same black goo is
useful evidence. It narrows down the suspects rapidly, leaves the
burglar with an explanation problem, and is one more piece of evidence
in the picture.


Regards, NT

Absolutely. If a 'pro' like PJO was asked to fix a fault on my system with
the home made relay interface, he'd run a mile. Pros like to deal with
things they know and understand. With a security system, this ain't
necessarily a good idea given that a 'pro' burglar who could defeat such
things will have had to learn his 'trade' somewhere too...

Dead right I'd run a mile. I wouldn't even take over a system installed by
another engineer. As others have said some so called engineers are butchers.

You home made bits though are about as easy to defeat as switching off a
light when compared to a proper installation. I have installed ID systems
since 1990 (I installed the very first one) and I can honestly say that I
wouldn't have a clue how to defeat on by attacking the wiring etc. Any other
system, even end of line resistor systems - easy.

From a distance. Your method described elsewhere wouldn't have worked in
my situation - do you *really* think I'd have chased the cable in if all
that was needed was a longer drill - which I have in any case?

Ands like I said in an earlier posy it's impossible to describe EVERY
situation here. What I can say with condidence though is that I could have
done your door without chasing and re-decorating and no wiring showing. I
can say this because I have never yet come across a door that I couldn't do
and that includes doors on some very nice old buildings where, at initial
inspection, one says "f**k"!. Your modest house (your words not mine) would
be little challange to any well trained installer using the proper kit.

Err, if you don't know the company, how can you know what they do and
don't supply? Closed mind again.

No, not a closed mind but If I've not heard of them after 25 years in the
game I just have to assume they're not a proper alarm/security wholesaler
and are in fact a sell-it-all liek many other electrical suppliers.

It gets on both hands and clothes. You can wipe your hands but you
cant wipe goo off your clothes as easy as that. Those of us whove done
decorating know that you can be as careful as you like, paint still
tends to wander and turn up where its not expected.

Ok, lets get back to basics here. Does Screwfix sell this as an anti-clime
paint or a "burglar identifying" paint?

Go one, answer that question but please keep your answer strictly to
information which can be found in the Screwfex book! i.e. from the title
description of the product (anti-climb paint)!


Thus this black goo is likely to be on the burglar until they get
home. If the police turn up at time of incident and pick someone up,
either on premises or off, the presence of this same black goo is
useful evidence. It narrows down the suspects rapidly, leaves the
burglar with an explanation problem, and is one more piece of evidence
in the picture.

Get real please.

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 11:56:05 -0000, "PJO"
wrote:

Christ no. The long drills are used to drill through frames into floor
spaces or up through plaster work. See my other post explaining.

Okay, thanks for that

I couldn't quite believe that you might have been taking the wiring
thru the width of the door.

PoP

Sending email to my published email address isn't
guaranteed to reach me.

In article ,
PJO wrote:
You home made bits though are about as easy to defeat as switching off a
light when compared to a proper installation.

Once again, how do you know? You've not seen what I've done. I'd say it's
in fact more secure than the main panel.

I have installed ID systems since 1990 (I installed the very first one)
and I can honestly say that I wouldn't have a clue how to defeat on by
attacking the wiring etc.

My system pre-dates the common availability of those. But like everything,
they will be capable of being defeated by someone who understands them.

Any other system, even end of line resistor
systems - easy.

There comes a point when you have to decide what you really need - for
most homes, money spent on making the house secure is better than any
fancy alarm, given how most are ignored due to the frequency of false
alarms from even pro fitted systems.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article ,
PJO wrote:
Ands like I said in an earlier posy it's impossible to describe EVERY
situation here. What I can say with condidence though is that I could
have done your door without chasing and re-decorating and no wiring
showing.

What - poking out a hole at the bottom of the skirting as you describe? No
thanks - I'm happy I did it my way.

--
*Letting a cat out of the bag is easier than putting it back in *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

What - poking out a hole at the bottom of the skirting as you describe? No
thanks - I'm happy I did it my way.

Errr no, no cable poking out of any hole. It'd be under the floor.

Anyway, enough. Your opinion of what you have done seems to be the most
important thing in this conversation whereas I tried to offer good honest
sensible advice. I'll not respond to any more of your silly
comments/arguments. You're doubtless happy so carry on regardless.

"PJO" wrote in message ...
It gets on both hands and clothes. You can wipe your hands but you
cant wipe goo off your clothes as easy as that. Those of us whove done
decorating know that you can be as careful as you like, paint still
tends to wander and turn up where its not expected.

Ok, lets get back to basics here. Does Screwfix sell this as an anti-clime
paint or a "burglar identifying" paint?

Go one, answer that question but please keep your answer strictly to
information which can be found in the Screwfex book! i.e. from the title
description of the product (anti-climb paint)!


Thus this black goo is likely to be on the burglar until they get
home. If the police turn up at time of incident and pick someone up,
either on premises or off, the presence of this same black goo is
useful evidence. It narrows down the suspects rapidly, leaves the
burglar with an explanation problem, and is one more piece of evidence
in the picture.

Get real please.


Great explanation PJO I'll buy that


Regards, NT

In article ,
PJO wrote:
What - poking out a hole at the bottom of the skirting as you
describe? No thanks - I'm happy I did it my way.

Errr no, no cable poking out of any hole. It'd be under the floor

Anyway, enough. Your opinion of what you have done seems to be the most
important thing in this conversation whereas I tried to offer good honest
sensible advice. I'll not respond to any more of your silly
comments/arguments. You're doubtless happy so carry on regardless.

Your advice seems to be that only you know this sort of work, and that all
other experts in this field are rubbish. So I'll make my own judgments -
given that I've heard this tale from so many before.

Nobody knows everything there is to know about any subject, and those that
do think they do deserve what they get.

--
*Out of my mind. Back in five minutes.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Your advice seems to be that only you know this sort of work, and that all
other experts in this field are rubbish. So I'll make my own judgments -
given that I've heard this tale from so many before.

I never suggested that at all and considering there are no other similar
experts in this thread then I consider my opinion much more important that
yours, especially considering that you admit to being non-professional.


Nobody knows everything there is to know about any subject, and those that
do think they do deserve what they get.

Some people actually do know everything about certain subjects though.
That's why they're called experts, professors, etc!

The end.