I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all that for a container.

Safety tested perhaps?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Weatherlawyer" wrote in message
...
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler. I
asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans cost
after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to buy.
But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all that
for a container.

In article ,
Weatherlawyer writes
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler.
I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans
cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

Are you talking tanks or bottles?
That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to
buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

Smallest bottle is about £15 refill
So why are they so stupidly expensive?
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans. BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all
that for a container.
Container? Bottle? Tank? Which?
--
bert

bert wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer writes
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler.
I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans
cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

Are you talking tanks or bottles?
That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to
buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

Smallest bottle is about £15 refill
So why are they so stupidly expensive?
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans. BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all
that for a container.
Container? Bottle? Tank? Which?

It's tinfoil-hat man you're talking to. Don't expect sense.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 10 Oct 2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all that for a container.

It's also convenience given the staggering array of variation in gas
bottle connection throughout Europe and the refusal of companies to
exchange even bottles with the same connection.

--
Flying on Per Ardua ad Astra

On Monday, 10 October 2016 22:23:29 UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer writes
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler.
I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans
cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

Are you talking tanks or bottles?
That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to
buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

Smallest bottle is about £15 refill
So why are they so stupidly expensive?
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans. BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all
that for a container.
Container? Bottle? Tank? Which?

Reservoir.

On Monday, 10 October 2016 23:00:19 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
bert wrote:
In article ,
Weatherlawyer writes
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler..
I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans
cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

Are you talking tanks or bottles?
That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to
buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

Smallest bottle is about £15 refill
So why are they so stupidly expensive?
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans. BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed..
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all
that for a container.
Container? Bottle? Tank? Which?

It's tinfoil-hat man you're talking to. Don't expect sense.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls soup it only falls in between the cracks.

Thanks I need that, small snacks while waiting go down a treat.

On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 04:23:37 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
On 10 Oct 2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas controller. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all that for a container.

It's also convenient, given the staggering array of variation in gas
bottle connection throughout Europe and the refusal of companies to
exchange even bottles with the same connection.

You can get adaptors on eBay but shouldn't gas fittings be universal for the sake of safety?

My point is that I have to buy a proprietary tank if I want to get free of the monopoly. Which is like buying hotels on Mayfair and Park Lane; somehow it just isn't a doss house on the Old Kent Road.

I'll have to get a gas tank from a scrap yard and adapt it to my mobile heater, then go to different filling stations. I wonder what sort of apparatus I'd need to prime a Calor cylinder with gas from the mains. Come to think of it; what price per mile would my fuel bill be?

Down to red diesel levels I imagine.

On 11 Oct 2016 06:53, Weatherlawyer wrote:

I'll have to get a gas tank from a scrap yard and adapt it to my mobile heater, then go to different filling stations. I wonder what sort of apparatus I'd need to prime a Calor cylinder with gas from the mains. Come to think of it; what price per mile would my fuel bill be?

Down to red diesel levels I imagine.

You would need a liquification plant.

--
Flying on Per Ardua ad Astra

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Much lighter plastic bottles and the refills much cheaper. There can be
issues with sourcing the refills.

On 10/10/2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all that for a container.


What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

Mike

In message ,
Weatherlawyer writes
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 04:23:37 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
On 10 Oct 2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas
controller. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell
for caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120
to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying
all that for a container.

It's also convenient, given the staggering array of variation in gas
bottle connection throughout Europe and the refusal of companies to
exchange even bottles with the same connection.

You can get adaptors on eBay but shouldn't gas fittings be universal
for the sake of safety?

My point is that I have to buy a proprietary tank if I want to get free
of the monopoly. Which is like buying hotels on Mayfair and Park Lane;
somehow it just isn't a doss house on the Old Kent Road.

I'll have to get a gas tank from a scrap yard and adapt it to my mobile
heater, then go to different filling stations. I wonder what sort of
apparatus I'd need to prime a Calor cylinder with gas from the mains.
Come to think of it; what price per mile would my fuel bill be?

Down to red diesel levels I imagine.

I have a small blue one which floated down the river. Free to good
home:-) (Herts.)

--
Tim Lamb

On 11 Oct 2016 09:44, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 07:30:51 +0100, Zephirum wrote:

On 11 Oct 2016 06:53, Weatherlawyer wrote:

I'll have to get a gas tank from a scrap yard and adapt it to my mobile
heater, then go to different filling stations. I wonder what sort of
apparatus I'd need to prime a Calor cylinder with gas from the mains.
Come to think of it; what price per mile would my fuel bill be?

Down to red diesel levels I imagine.

You would need a liquification plant.

Calor bottles can be filled from Calor tanks. Quite a few caravan sites
run entirely on Calor, and some will fill your bottle from their tank -
or used to.

Bottles are filled by weight.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
town gas to fill a bottle.

--
Flying on Per Ardua ad Astra

On 11 Oct 2016 10:25, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:53:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

One of the effects was to be permanently on alert for a dawn raid -
whereby the IT department was required to do what the CMA told them.

Another effect was that employees were required to ensure they were
careful how they conducted business - part of the induction was a lecture
and film about the powers of the CMA and how a chat with a competitor
could be misinterpreted as anti-competitive.

BP gas in Europe use the same connection and regulator as Calor in
Ireland, which is not the same connector as Calor in UK.

--
Flying on Per Ardua ad Astra

On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 12:04:25 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a small blue one which floated down the river. Free to good
home:-) (Herts.)

Has the other Tim told you not to feed the fish like that?
It only ends up in trolls!

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

One of the effects was to be permanently on alert for a dawn raid -
whereby the IT department was required to do what the CMA told them.

Another effect was that employees were required to ensure they were
careful how they conducted business - part of the induction was a lecture
and film about the powers of the CMA and how a chat with a competitor
could be misinterpreted as anti-competitive.

BP gas in Europe use the same connection and regulator as Calor in
Ireland, which is not the same connector as Calor in UK.

A left handed thread abandoned because the British are such good engineers they manage to force them on the wrong way?

But at least we did win two World Wars! Only 60+ million killed.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
natural gas to fill a bottle.

Unless I plugged my old fridge pump into the mains. Quantity not being much of a problem for driving locally -especially when it switches over to peter-oil auotomagically.

Muddymike said:
What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

Hence the requirement to get an internet account and shop online. It is a principle not too dissimilar to the old fashioned method of shopping around but you can get a lot further oodles quicker.

But I have to stop all your fun here as I am losing track of who said what and why, mainly because I am not learning much once again on these indupitably long but caustically underperforming threads.

But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for missing the whole point of the internet entirely.

After serious thinking Muddymike wrote :
On 10/10/2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler. I
asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans cost
after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to buy.
But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all
that for a container.


What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

But where do you fill them from? Our car runs on LPG and the pumps we
use have big signs on them explicitly forbidding filling of cylinders.

On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 1:22:09 PM UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 12:04:25 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a small blue one which floated down the river. Free to good
home:-) (Herts.)

Has the other Tim told you not to feed the fish like that?
It only ends up in trolls!

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

One of the effects was to be permanently on alert for a dawn raid -
whereby the IT department was required to do what the CMA told them.

Another effect was that employees were required to ensure they were
careful how they conducted business - part of the induction was a lecture
and film about the powers of the CMA and how a chat with a competitor
could be misinterpreted as anti-competitive.

BP gas in Europe use the same connection and regulator as Calor in
Ireland, which is not the same connector as Calor in UK.

A left handed thread abandoned because the British are such good engineers they manage to force them on the wrong way?

But at least we did win two World Wars! Only 60+ million killed.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
natural gas to fill a bottle.

Unless I plugged my old fridge pump into the mains. Quantity not being much of a problem for driving locally -especially when it switches over to peter-oil auotomagically.

Muddymike said:
What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

Hence the requirement to get an internet account and shop online. It is a principle not too dissimilar to the old fashioned method of shopping around but you can get a lot further oodles quicker.

But I have to stop all your fun here as I am losing track of who said what and why, mainly because I am not learning much once again on these indupitably long but caustically underperforming threads.

But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for missing the whole point of the internet entirely.

Run that by me again. We won two world wars ? I don't think WE won them.Firstly we had the assistance of Australian, New Zealand, Canadian, Indian, African, Nepalese, Irish, etc . etc. troops. . Secondly the Russians did their fair share with massive casualities and thirdly we were right royally f****d until the yanks joined in, in both wars. So all in all I don't think we can say WE won two world wars.

On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 13:33:02 UTC+1, fred wrote:
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 1:22:09 PM UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 12:04:25 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a small blue one which floated down the river. Free to good
home:-) (Herts.)

Has the other Tim told you not to feed the fish like that?
It only ends up in trolls!

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

One of the effects was to be permanently on alert for a dawn raid -
whereby the IT department was required to do what the CMA told them..

Another effect was that employees were required to ensure they were
careful how they conducted business - part of the induction was a lecture
and film about the powers of the CMA and how a chat with a competitor
could be misinterpreted as anti-competitive.

BP gas in Europe use the same connection and regulator as Calor in
Ireland, which is not the same connector as Calor in UK.

A left handed thread abandoned because the British are such good engineers they manage to force them on the wrong way?

But at least we did win two World Wars! Only 60+ million killed.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
natural gas to fill a bottle.

Unless I plugged my old fridge pump into the mains. Quantity not being much of a problem for driving locally -especially when it switches over to peter-oil auotomagically.

Muddymike said:
What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

Hence the requirement to get an internet account and shop online. It is a principle not too dissimilar to the old fashioned method of shopping around but you can get a lot further oodles quicker.

But I have to stop all your fun here as I am losing track of who said what and why, mainly because I am not learning much once again on these indupitably long but caustically underperforming threads.

But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for missing the whole point of the internet entirely.

Run that by me again. We won two world wars ? I don't think WE won them.Firstly we had the assistance of Australian, New Zealand, Canadian, Indian, African, Nepalese, Irish, etc . etc. troops. . Secondly the Russians did their fair share with massive casualities and thirdly we were right royally f****d until the yanks joined in, in both wars. So all in all I don't think we can say WE won two world wars.

Ah the fellow thinkenship of the British "make do and mend" variety; always superior in the battle field to the Germanic perfectionism. Fortunately by the time the Americans were in we had the tactic down patent. And they managed to get rid of some of their generals before it was too late.

But one can not really consider the US input to be either tactical on manpowerful as they still persisted in throwing as much life away as was humanly possible right to the bloody end. Fortunately all we had to do wa sell them out Empire to make it all go away.

At least we chose the perfect imbecile to do that with.

But I suspect you are intent on driving the price of bridge crossing to the point of no avail. Troll food:

Three measures of oat flakes to one part of potato flour. 1 egg per ladle of mixture add salt to taste sugar to brown and water to mix.

Place 1 ladle scoop full, per portion into an oatcake sized pan and cook one side until the mixture is firm enough to turn over. Turn down heating and cook until the second side has browned. Turn the cake once more and brown the other side. Add bacon, eggs and cheese to suit.

Get suit dry cleaned the next day if not needed sooner.

Weatherlawyer wrote:


But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for missing
the whole point of the internet entirely.


When you ask a coherent question I'll happily answer it but your normal
form is to ask in an incoherent fashion and to omit important information
and *then* blame everyone else for not answering a simple question.

Oh look, you already have. "But I have to stop all your fun here as I am
losing track of who said what and why, mainly because I am not learning
much once again on these indupitably long but caustically underperforming
threads."


Maybe you need to look in a mirror to see why so many of your threads
become "caustically underperforming".


Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 11/10/16 15:45, Tim+ wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:


But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for missing
the whole point of the internet entirely.


When you ask a coherent question I'll happily answer it but your normal
form is to ask in an incoherent fashion and to omit important information
and *then* blame everyone else for not answering a simple question.

Oh look, you already have. "But I have to stop all your fun here as I am
losing track of who said what and why, mainly because I am not learning
much once again on these indupitably long but caustically underperforming
threads."


Maybe you need to look in a mirror to see why so many of your threads
become "caustically underperforming".


Tim

Weatherlawyer patently has serious issues.

Let him be


--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

"Steve" wrote in message ...
After serious thinking Muddymike wrote :
On 10/10/2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas contoler.
I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for caravans
cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120 to
buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying all
that for a container.


What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

But where do you fill them from? Our car runs on LPG and the pumps we use
have big signs on them explicitly forbidding filling of cylinders.

They may forbid that but I fill mine that way.

On 11/10/2016 13:31, Steve wrote:
After serious thinking Muddymike wrote :
On 10/10/2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas
contoler. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell for
caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120
to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying
all that for a container.


What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

But where do you fill them from? Our car runs on LPG and the pumps we
use have big signs on them explicitly forbidding filling of cylinders.

When you fill a cylinder with LPG for none road vehicle use the
operator needs to know so that they can charge without road fuel duty.
Perhaps that's why the operator you use has that sign.

Mike

In article , Jethro_uk
writes
On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:53:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

Oh it was quite deliberate. Calor threatened to withdraw supplies from
any of their dealers who also stocked the BP cylinders.
Snip
--
bert

In article , fred
writes
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 1:22:09 PM UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 12:04:25 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a small blue one which floated down the river. Free to good
home:-) (Herts.)

Has the other Tim told you not to feed the fish like that?
It only ends up in trolls!

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

One of the effects was to be permanently on alert for a dawn raid -
whereby the IT department was required to do what the CMA told them.

Another effect was that employees were required to ensure they were
careful how they conducted business - part of the induction was a lecture
and film about the powers of the CMA and how a chat with a competitor
could be misinterpreted as anti-competitive.

BP gas in Europe use the same connection and regulator as Calor in
Ireland, which is not the same connector as Calor in UK.

A left handed thread abandoned because the British are such good
engineers they manage to force them on the wrong way?

But at least we did win two World Wars! Only 60+ million killed.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
natural gas to fill a bottle.

Unless I plugged my old fridge pump into the mains. Quantity not
being much of a problem for driving locally -especially when it
switches over to peter-oil auotomagically.

Muddymike said:
What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

Hence the requirement to get an internet account and shop online. It
is a principle not too dissimilar to the old fashioned method of
shopping around but you can get a lot further oodles quicker.

But I have to stop all your fun here as I am losing track of who said
what and why, mainly because I am not learning much once again on
these indupitably long but caustically underperforming threads.

But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for
missing the whole point of the internet entirely.

Run that by me again. We won two world wars ? I don't think WE won
them.Firstly we had the assistance of Australian, New Zealand,
Canadian, Indian, African, Nepalese, Irish, etc . etc. troops. .
Secondly the Russians did their fair share with massive casualities and
thirdly we were right royally f****d until the yanks joined in, in both
wars. So all in all I don't think we can say WE won two world wars.
But we did win one world cup, as the song says.
--
bert

In article , Zephirum
writes
On 11 Oct 2016 09:44, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 07:30:51 +0100, Zephirum wrote:

On 11 Oct 2016 06:53, Weatherlawyer wrote:

I'll have to get a gas tank from a scrap yard and adapt it to my mobile
heater, then go to different filling stations. I wonder what sort of
apparatus I'd need to prime a Calor cylinder with gas from the mains.
Come to think of it; what price per mile would my fuel bill be?

Down to red diesel levels I imagine.

You would need a liquification plant.

Calor bottles can be filled from Calor tanks. Quite a few caravan sites
run entirely on Calor, and some will fill your bottle from their tank -
or used to.

Bottles are filled by weight.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
town gas to fill a bottle.

Very unwise as the pressure would be totally different.

Bottles are filled by weight, autogas tanks at filling stations are
filled/charged by litres.
--
bert

In article , Steve writes
After serious thinking Muddymike wrote :
On 10/10/2016 20:55, Weatherlawyer wrote:
I was getting my van fixed today something wrong with the gas
contoler. I asked the fellow doing it how much the cans they sell
for caravans cost after asking him if they can be used on Calor heaters.

That is what they are for he said but they cost something like £120
to buy. But it will only cost about £8 to fill a cylinder.

So why are they so stupidly expensive?
I'd have thought that the occasional holiday hardly warrants paying
all that for a container.


What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

But where do you fill them from? Our car runs on LPG and the pumps we
use have big signs on them explicitly forbidding filling of cylinders.
Cylinders or bottles do not have ullage protection unlike an autogas
tank, so high risk of overfilling.
--
bert

bert pretended :
Oh it was quite deliberate. Calor threatened to withdraw supplies from any of
their dealers who also stocked the BP cylinders.

That is correct. Homebase (I think) are one of the few/only national
stockists of BP, but a rather expensive source.

We use the BP, because they are lighter and cheaper than anything Calor
has to offer - they are just not easy to source. A great shame really,
as they are so very much better than the competition.

Prices for a 10Kg exchange/refill can vary between £24.99 to £45. I
have a local source for them at £24.99.

bert laid this down on his screen :
Very unwise as the pressure would be totally different.

Bottles are filled by weight, autogas tanks at filling stations are
filled/charged by litres.

Autogas is sold by litres, bottled gas is sold by contents weight.

When filling bottles, you can only fill to 80%, the 20% is to allow for
expansion as the liquid gas heats up. Refillable gas tanks legally have
to be fitted with a device to automatically stop the fill at 80%.

The BP gas bottles would be ideal for pirate refilling, because the
liquid level can be seen inside the bottle.

On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 10:06:48 PM UTC+1, bert wrote:
In article , fred
writes
On Tuesday, October 11, 2016 at 1:22:09 PM UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 12:04:25 UTC+1, Zephirum wrote:
Tim Lamb wrote:
I have a small blue one which floated down the river. Free to good
home:-) (Herts.)

Has the other Tim told you not to feed the fish like that?
It only ends up in trolls!

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes..

One of the effects was to be permanently on alert for a dawn raid -
whereby the IT department was required to do what the CMA told them.

Another effect was that employees were required to ensure they were
careful how they conducted business - part of the induction was a lecture
and film about the powers of the CMA and how a chat with a competitor
could be misinterpreted as anti-competitive.

BP gas in Europe use the same connection and regulator as Calor in
Ireland, which is not the same connector as Calor in UK.

A left handed thread abandoned because the British are such good
engineers they manage to force them on the wrong way?

But at least we did win two World Wars! Only 60+ million killed.

In my experience they are filled by litres, at least at LPG pumps they
are, and I meant he would need a liquification plant for using mains
natural gas to fill a bottle.

Unless I plugged my old fridge pump into the mains. Quantity not
being much of a problem for driving locally -especially when it
switches over to peter-oil auotomagically.

Muddymike said:
What about the adaptors that supposedly allow you to refill standard
cylinders They are only £30/£40?

Hence the requirement to get an internet account and shop online. It
is a principle not too dissimilar to the old fashioned method of
shopping around but you can get a lot further oodles quicker.

But I have to stop all your fun here as I am losing track of who said
what and why, mainly because I am not learning much once again on
these indupitably long but caustically underperforming threads.

But I would like to especially like to point to the other Tim for
missing the whole point of the internet entirely.

Run that by me again. We won two world wars ? I don't think WE won
them.Firstly we had the assistance of Australian, New Zealand,
Canadian, Indian, African, Nepalese, Irish, etc . etc. troops. .
Secondly the Russians did their fair share with massive casualities and
thirdly we were right royally f****d until the yanks joined in, in both
wars. So all in all I don't think we can say WE won two world wars.
But we did win one world cup, as the song says.
--
bert

And how many world cups have Gemany won ?

In article , Jethro_uk
writes
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 22:00:26 +0100, bert wrote:

In article , Jethro_uk
writes
On Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:53:03 +0100, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

bert has brought this to us :
Calor has a virtual monopoly in mobile bottles as used on touring
caravans.
BP tried to break in to the market a few years ago and failed.

The BP system is still on the go, it was bought out by MacGas. A great
system, it deserved much better, but crushed by Calor.

Not deliberately. Calor really detested being in the position they were
in, and would have done anything to lose their monopoly. Unfortunately
regulated industries don't appeal so much to the investing classes.

Oh it was quite deliberate. Calor threatened to withdraw supplies from
any of their dealers who also stocked the BP cylinders.
Snip

And the CMA let it happen ?
Yes and I did write to the Office of Fair Trading at the time.
--
bert

In article , Harry Bloomfield
writes
bert laid this down on his screen :
Very unwise as the pressure would be totally different.

Bottles are filled by weight, autogas tanks at filling stations are
filled/charged by litres.

Autogas is sold by litres, bottled gas is sold by contents weight.

When filling bottles, you can only fill to 80%, the 20% is to allow for
expansion as the liquid gas heats up. Refillable gas tanks legally have
to be fitted with a device to automatically stop the fill at 80%.

The BP gas bottles would be ideal for pirate refilling, because the
liquid level can be seen inside the bottle.
There are some bottle available useful for caravans which have such a
device and they can be refilled at autogas stations. (I forget the brand
name). Personally I find I use very little gas these days on caravan or
motorhome.
--
bert

On 14 Oct 2016 15:33, Bert wrote:

The BP gas bottles would be ideal for pirate refilling, because the
liquid level can be seen inside the bottle.
There are some bottle available useful for caravans which have such a
device and they can be refilled at autogas stations. (I forget the brand
name). Personally I find I use very little gas these days on caravan or
motorhome.
There are a number available, I have one called Gaslow made by, or at
least retailed by a company in the north of Ireland.

--
Flying on Per Ardua ad Astra

On Tuesday, 11 October 2016 15:45:57 UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:

When you ask a coherent question I'll happily answer it but your normal
form is to ask in an incoherent fashion and to omit important information

See; where you went wrong is the intent was to get an answer from someone sensible.

and *then* blame everyone else for not answering a simple question.

No. I was specific.

"But I have to stop all your fun here as I am
losing track of who said what and why, mainly because I am not learning

That is wrong but correct. Now let us see how you stop my fun.

How much is a propane tank of the sort used to store it for central heating.

How much would it cost to fill?

And can it be used for filling a car?

In article ,
Weatherlawyer writes
How much is a propane tank of the sort used to store it for central heating.

Free from the supplier overground about £1500 to bury it
How much would it cost to fill?

Depends how big it is but generally a lot cheaper than buying a 48Kg
cylinder Ask a supplier. Depends where you are and how much you use.
And can it be used for filling a car?
Well, sort of. I've heard of people who do IYSWIM HMRC might take an
interest
--
bert

On 16/10/2016 16:27, Weatherlawyer wrote:
How much is a propane tank of the sort used to store it for central heating.

How much would it cost to fill?

And can it be used for filling a car?

For filling a car you would need a bottom tapping and a pump to draw the
LPG as liquid. An old farmer friend back in Norfolk bought an old LPG
Fork truck to convince Calor that he need the ability to pump liquid
LPG. He then ran his two Range Rovers on road duty free LPG:-)

Mike

On Monday, 17 October 2016 09:05:17 UTC+1, Muddymike wrote:
On 16/10/2016 16:27, Weatherlawyer wrote:
How much is a propane tank of the sort used to store it for central heating.

How much would it cost to fill?

And can it be used for filling a car?

For filling a car you would need a bottom tapping and a pump to draw the
LPG as liquid. An old farmer friend back in Norfolk bought an old LPG
Fork truck to convince Calor that he need the ability to pump liquid
LPG. He then ran his two Range Rovers on road duty free LPG:-)

Mike

Good idea.
The pump at the propane supplier has what looks like connectors for left hand thread non "Calor push fit" type valves. Those red cylinders?
Do they have female socket type connector?