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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Anyone know of cheaper "unbranded" ones? For the limited use I'd make of one,
90 squid for a Bosch from Screwfix seems a bit much |
#2
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![]() "OldScrawn" wrote in message ... Anyone know of cheaper "unbranded" ones? For the limited use I'd make of one, 90 squid for a Bosch from Screwfix seems a bit much That is for a driver really. 7.2V is not that powerful to use for constant drilling, say in wooden joists. It only has one battery too. Do a google on "angle drill", I recall seeing a mains operated one for around £90. These have much more power. Unfortunately there are no cheap mains angle drills. Protrade http://www.protrade-direct.co.uk sent me a catalogue and are pushing a Roybio 14.4 v angle drill and a 14.4 v drill/driver and charger and bag for £114 inc VAT & del. If you need two drills then is the one to go for. DeWalt are selling a similar angle drill with two batteries for around £170 Tool shops sell angle converters for around £12-15. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#3
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You should be able to find the angle adapter that fits into you ordinary
drill chuck. Mine works great but don't often use it. |
#4
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That URL should be http://www.protrade.co.uk/.
Thanks; the immediate need is for pilot holes & screws (fitting kitchen cabinets) rather than joists, but that Ryobi deal looks good. Is everyone happy with Ryobi (serious amateur, rather than pro)? S |
#5
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"OldScrawn" wrote in message
... That URL should be http://www.protrade.co.uk/. Thanks; the immediate need is for pilot holes & screws (fitting kitchen cabinets) rather than joists, but that Ryobi deal looks good. Is everyone happy with Ryobi (serious amateur, rather than pro)? I would say into the pro range. Protrade don't sell amateur DIY from what I know. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#6
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On 02 Dec 2003 21:05:46 GMT, (OldScrawn) wrote:
That URL should be http://www.protrade.co.uk/. Thanks; the immediate need is for pilot holes & screws (fitting kitchen cabinets) rather than joists, but that Ryobi deal looks good. Is everyone happy with Ryobi (serious amateur, rather than pro)? S A better solution is to go for one of the branded makes and share the batteries among several tools. Take a look at http://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/isho...shopscr24.html Some while ago I bought a Makita angle drill and actually have ended up using it much more than I thought I would. This site has the 12v version without battery and charger for £81 The torque on it is excellent because it is more highly geared than regular drills and will comfortably drill through joists using an auger bit rather than a spade bit. For pilot holes and driving screws it's excellent. I then have another Makita 12v drill which came with three batteries and a fast charger in a special deal from Axminster Tools. I can cycle three batteries through the charger and can basically run both tools concurrently on a job. ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#7
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![]() "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 02 Dec 2003 21:05:46 GMT, (OldScrawn) wrote: That URL should be http://www.protrade.co.uk/. Thanks; the immediate need is for pilot holes & screws (fitting kitchen cabinets) rather than joists, but that Ryobi deal looks good. Is everyone happy with Ryobi (serious amateur, rather than pro)? A better solution is to go for one of the branded makes and share the batteries among several tools. Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Take a look at http://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/isho...shopscr24.html Some while ago I bought a Makita angle drill and actually have ended up using it much more than I thought I would. This site has the 12v version without battery and charger for £81 The torque on it is excellent because it is more highly geared than regular drills and will comfortably drill through joists using an auger bit rather than a spade bit. For pilot holes and driving screws it's excellent. Screwfix sell the 9.6v Makita for £160 and its cmes with"two" batteries. One battery is worth about £60-70 I then have another Makita 12v drill which came with three batteries and a fast charger in a special deal from Axminster Tools. I can cycle three batteries through the charger and can basically run both tools concurrently on a job. How much for this 12v drill? --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#8
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On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 23:02:04 +0000 (UTC), "Jim"
(remove $ ) wrote: You should be able to find the angle adapter that fits into you ordinary drill chuck. Mine works great but don't often use it. I find them a PITA if used for driving screws. It can be difficult to hold the angle attachment to the screw and manipulate the drill at the same time. Needs 3 hands ! Paul Mc Cann |
#9
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On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc. They are more of an OEM manufacturer with products being labelled for various outlets. For example, in the U.S. their own named products are sold only through Home Depot. Take a look at http://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/isho...shopscr24.html Some while ago I bought a Makita angle drill and actually have ended up using it much more than I thought I would. This site has the 12v version without battery and charger for £81 The torque on it is excellent because it is more highly geared than regular drills and will comfortably drill through joists using an auger bit rather than a spade bit. For pilot holes and driving screws it's excellent. How much for this 12v drill? At the time, IIRC, about £100 or so. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#10
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![]() "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc. You are right. They begin with M and B not R. They are more of an OEM manufacturer with products being labelled for various outlets. For example, in the U.S. their own named products are sold only through Home Depot. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#11
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![]() "IMM" wrote in message ... "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Mains angle drill £119.39 Inc VAT & del http://www.worldofpower.co.uk/acatalog/angle_drill.html Atachment £17: http://www.ishop.co.uk/ishop/982/shopscr2066.html --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 19/11/2003 |
#12
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![]() "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc. http://www.ryobi-group.co.jp/en/proj...ols/index.html I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#13
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In article ,
IMM wrote: Screwfix sell the 9.6v Makita for £160 and its cmes with"two" batteries. One battery is worth about £60-70 That would put each cell at approximately 8 quid. Don't be silly. -- *Does fuzzy logic tickle? * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#14
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On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:08:56 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc. http://www.ryobi-group.co.jp/en/proj...ols/index.html Your point being? The important issue is the quality point in the market, the product design and manufacturing and the service backup. These are closely related to the strength of a brand in the market and a well defined positioning. For example, Bosch have a green range (DIY) and a blue range (professional). Makita have predominantly a professional range. They are broadly distributed and have the service backup to match. I don't consider three year warranties with no real service and repair a valid service offering because typically the product is junked at the end of that period since it will have been superceded. I would rather pay more for a higher quality product that will work better throughout its long life. Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Sorry, but a web site in Japan doesn't cut it. I suggest you read their annual report. In 2003 their power tool sales fell by nealry 25% and they sold off their power tools subsidiaries outside Japan. Their sales of power tools were at only around $200M which is small for what they are doing. This, coupled with the financial data does not give a strong impression of commitment to the power tools market. Their main business is diecastings and printing machines. A lot of what they make goes in rebadged form on the U.S. market, where as I mentioned they only sell their own bramd through Home Depot. Home Depot has a service arrangement worse than anything one has seen in the UK and plays the numbers game just like most UK sheds do with their own brand tools. For example, Ryobi produces Sears Craftsman tool range, which has an apalling reputation nowadays in the U.S. Private labelling of products has the advantage for a manufacturer that they can deliver product to more outlets without incurring the costs of maintaining their own support infrastructure. It's also a way to fill the factory. The problem is that this way of doing business is fiercely competitive and products have to be made down to a price. This way of working suits products positioned for the consumer market and sold through volume retail channels at cheap prices. That's fine for what it is, but it has nothing to do with quality. This almost always comes from manufacturers who design and build good quality products and take responsibility themselves for them. As a comparison, take a look at Makita's annual report. This has a much clearer message as to strategy and indicated increased sales figures to nearly $1500M for the same period in 2002/2003. There was a 20% increase in sales in Europe which also accounts for a third of their business. They have subsidiary sales and support organisations in virtually every country. I would rather buy a higher quality and properly supported product, which, when all is taken into account costs the about the same in the long run as one that isn't, yet runs better and produces better results. I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html I am sure that these are fine for what they are. However, the dimensions of the gearbox appear to be a lot more than those of an angle drill and may not fit into a small space which is where an angle drill is often needed. --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#15
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In article ,
Andy Hall wrote: Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. I've only got the one Ryobi tool which is several years old now - it's a rechargeable Dremmel type device which gets heavy use (on light work, though) and I really can't fault it. Its batteries are original and have lasted better than any other rechargeable I own regardless - and this is IMHO the sign of quality. Nor was it expensive when bought from B&Q. Sad that they didn't retain this quality/value compromise. -- *Change is inevitable ... except from vending machines * Dave Plowman London SW 12 RIP Acorn |
#16
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On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 22:33:34 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"OldScrawn" wrote in message ... Anyone know of cheaper "unbranded" ones? For the limited use I'd make of one, 90 squid for a Bosch from Screwfix seems a bit much That is for a driver really. 7.2V is not that powerful to use for constant drilling, say in wooden joists. It only has one battery too. Do a google on "angle drill", I recall seeing a mains operated one for around £90. These have much more power. Unfortunately there are no cheap mains angle drills. Protrade http://www.protrade-direct.co.uk sent me a catalogue and are pushing a Roybio 14.4 v angle drill and a 14.4 v drill/driver and charger and bag for £114 inc VAT & del. If you need two drills then is the one to go for. DeWalt are selling a similar angle drill with two batteries for around £170 Tool shops sell angle converters for around £12-15. That URL should be http://www.protrade.co.uk/. -- cheers, witchy/binarydinosaurs |
#17
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![]() "Andy Hall" wrote in message news ![]() On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 02:08:56 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc. http://www.ryobi-group.co.jp/en/proj...ols/index.html Your point being? They are a lathe Japanese corporation, not a Chinese DIY outfit. Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Not in the UK. In some countries some brands have status, while in other countries they do. I suggest you read their annual report. In 2003 their power tool sales fell by nealry 25% and they sold off their power tools subsidiaries outside Japan. Making them in Japan gives status and they must be introducing new products. Not many do battery angle drills. Their sales of power tools were at only around $200M which is small for what they are doing. This, coupled with the financial data does not give a strong impression of commitment to the power tools market. Their main business is diecastings and printing machines. A lot of what they make goes in rebadged form on the U.S. market, where as I mentioned they only sell their own bramd through Home Depot. Home Depot has a service arrangement worse than anything one has seen in the UK and plays the numbers game just like most UK sheds do with their own brand tools. For example, Ryobi produces Sears Craftsman tool range, which has an apalling reputation nowadays in the U.S. Maybe that is what they sold off the overseas subs. The point is: Ryobi are a Mickey Mouse outfit and are not poor quality. I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html I am sure that these are fine for what they are. However, the dimensions of the gearbox appear to be a lot more than those of an angle drill and may not fit into a small space which is where an angle drill is often needed. It is fine for the occasional drilling of say joists and the likes. I would not use it for driving. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#18
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On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:42:18 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
Ryobi is a brand, it's called, Ryobi. Not in the same sense as Makita, Bosch, etc. http://www.ryobi-group.co.jp/en/proj...ols/index.html Your point being? They are a lathe Japanese corporation, not a Chinese DIY outfit. I don't think that they make lathes. Printing machines, but not lathes. They are far from being large in japanese terms and in power tools very small and apparently shrinking. Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Not in the UK. In some countries some brands have status, while in other countries they do. I suggest you read their annual report. In 2003 their power tool sales fell by nealry 25% and they sold off their power tools subsidiaries outside Japan. Making them in Japan gives status and they must be introducing new products. Not many do battery angle drills. Like most companies, some production has moved to China. The issue then becomes the effectiveness of the quality control. Their sales of power tools were at only around $200M which is small for what they are doing. This, coupled with the financial data does not give a strong impression of commitment to the power tools market. Their main business is diecastings and printing machines. A lot of what they make goes in rebadged form on the U.S. market, where as I mentioned they only sell their own bramd through Home Depot. Home Depot has a service arrangement worse than anything one has seen in the UK and plays the numbers game just like most UK sheds do with their own brand tools. For example, Ryobi produces Sears Craftsman tool range, which has an apalling reputation nowadays in the U.S. Maybe that is what they sold off the overseas subs. They sold off the subs, as stated in the annual report, because they were losing money heavily. This raises a big question mark concerning long term viability in the business area, certainly over the support and maintenance. The point is: Ryobi are a Mickey Mouse outfit and are not poor quality. I wouldn't go as far as to describe them as a Mickey Mouse outfit, but they are not, by their own positioning in the professional quality market. Undoubtedly they are fit for purpose up to a point,....... I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html I am sure that these are fine for what they are. However, the dimensions of the gearbox appear to be a lot more than those of an angle drill and may not fit into a small space which is where an angle drill is often needed. It is fine for the occasional drilling of say joists and the likes. I would not use it for driving. --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#19
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On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:40:59 +0000, Paul Mc Cann
wrote: I find them a PITA if used for driving screws. It can be difficult to hold the angle attachment to the screw and manipulate the drill at the same time. Needs 3 hands ! Dunno if the OP wants to drive screws or drill... I've seen a chap who fit a drill chuck on an angle grinder (M14 thread?), which was fine for drilling, and sounds cheap... Thomas Prufer |
#20
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![]() "Thomas Prufer" wrote in message ... On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 22:40:59 +0000, Paul Mc Cann wrote: I find them a PITA if used for driving screws. It can be difficult to hold the angle attachment to the screw and manipulate the drill at the same time. Needs 3 hands ! Dunno if the OP wants to drive screws or drill... I've seen a chap who fit a drill chuck on an angle grinder (M14 thread?), which was fine for drilling, and sounds cheap... Sounds dangerous too. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#21
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On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 03:15:16 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote: snip Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Sorry, but a web site in Japan doesn't cut it. snip I discovered some years back, to my cost, the difference between Ryobi U.S.A. and Ryobi Japan. I had a perfectly good split boom strimmer with various attachments which in a moment of madness I sold to a brother-in-law and decided to treat myself to a new one. The original was Japanese and the replacement U.S.A. The difference was immediately obvious as soon as I took the new one out of the box. Some time later whilst in a different suppliers the difference was explained to me. IME RYOBI U.S.A. products were IMHO junk whereas RYOBI Japan were acceptable My general experience with American manufactured garden products is that they produce a lot of items manufactued down to a priice instead of up to a standard. Paul Mc Cann |
#22
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On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:35:07 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"Thomas Prufer" wrote in message (...) I've seen a chap who fit a drill chuck on an angle grinder (M14 thread?), which was fine for drilling, and sounds cheap... Sounds dangerous too. Why? It's no more dangerous than a chuck spinning at a similar speed in a straight drive... Thomas Prufer |
#23
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In article , Thomas
Prufer wrote: Why? It's no more dangerous than a chuck spinning at a similar speed in a straight drive... Precisely: the small Ferm angle grinder sold by Screwfix has a no load speed of 11,000 rpm whilst a drill would be 3,000rpm. But I did muse a while back that for a change of gear ratios they could be selling a £25 angle drill -- Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm |
#24
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![]() "Thomas Prufer" wrote in message ... On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 14:35:07 -0000, "IMM" wrote: "Thomas Prufer" wrote in message (...) I've seen a chap who fit a drill chuck on an angle grinder (M14 thread?), which was fine for drilling, and sounds cheap... Sounds dangerous too. Why? It's no more dangerous than a chuck spinning at a similar speed in a straight drive... Angle grinders tend to spin at far greater speeds and a chuck secured with a bolt that was not designed for the task may create a metal lump to fly about dangerously. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#25
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Just to correct a few incorrect statements
Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Ryobi are owned by Techtronic Industries in Hong Kong (www.tti.com.hk). Ryobi as a brand is exclusive to Tool Bank in the UK, I believe. In other markets it is a very strong brand. TTI are very strong in Power Tools, making products for B&Q and JCB in the UK, Home Depot and Sears Roebuck in the USA, for example. This same company owns the floorcare brands VAX, Dirt Devil and Royal Appliances. They manufacture for Bissell, Bosch, etc. Their sales of power tools were at only around $200M which is small for what they are doing. This, coupled with the financial data does not give a strong impression of commitment to the power tools market. Their main business is diecastings and printing machines. You are looking at the wrong company as Ryobi of Japan only manufacture for the home market now. TTI who make the 'international' power tools have a turnover in Power Tools of about USD1,000M. Compare this with Black and Decker with approx USD3,100M (covering a wider product range), and you can see that they are almost in the same league. TTI are expanding their share and B&D are losing theirs. A lot of what they make goes in rebadged form on the U.S. market, where as I mentioned they only sell their own bramd through Home Depot. Home Depot has a service arrangement worse than anything one has seen in the UK and plays the numbers game just like most UK sheds do with their own brand tools. Ryobi brand is not exclusive to Home Depot in US. The point is: Ryobi are a Mickey Mouse outfit and are not poor quality. They are not a Mickey Mouse outfit and you are correct hta they are not poor quality I wouldn't go as far as to describe them as a Mickey Mouse outfit, but they are not, by their own positioning in the professional quality market. Undoubtedly they are fit for purpose up to a point,....... TTI also make the Ridgid brand which is Home Depot's professional range as well as semi pro own brand tools for UK retailers. |
#26
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On Fri, 5 Dec 2003 02:08:23 +0800, "Toolmaker"
wrote: Just to correct a few incorrect statements Ryobi position themselves with a range of predominantly DIY tools but do not have a strong brand position. Ryobi are owned by Techtronic Industries in Hong Kong (www.tti.com.hk). Ryobi as a brand is exclusive to Tool Bank in the UK, I believe. In other markets it is a very strong brand. TTI are very strong in Power Tools, making products for B&Q and JCB in the UK, Home Depot and Sears Roebuck in the USA, for example. Exactly my point. TTI have virtually zero market presence themselves and manufacture private label and OEM products for others. Their sales of power tools were at only around $200M which is small for what they are doing. This, coupled with the financial data does not give a strong impression of commitment to the power tools market. Their main business is diecastings and printing machines. You are looking at the wrong company as Ryobi of Japan only manufacture for the home market now. TTI who make the 'international' power tools have a turnover in Power Tools of about USD1,000M. Compare this with Black and Decker with approx USD3,100M (covering a wider product range), and you can see that they are almost in the same league. TTI are expanding their share and B&D are losing theirs. Which is I am sure why B&D is rapidly moving manufacture of low end products to the far east. It's meaningless to compare an OEM manufacturing house with a major single product brand. A lot of what they make goes in rebadged form on the U.S. market, where as I mentioned they only sell their own bramd through Home Depot. Home Depot has a service arrangement worse than anything one has seen in the UK and plays the numbers game just like most UK sheds do with their own brand tools. Ryobi brand is not exclusive to Home Depot in US. http://www.ryobitools.com/about/about.asp?sectionid=61 "We're proud to sell our tools exclusively through The Home Depot, where the values are unbeatable, the staff is knowledgeable and friendly - and you're just steps away from everything else you need to enjoy your RTI tools to the fullest". The point is: Ryobi are a Mickey Mouse outfit and are not poor quality. They are not a Mickey Mouse outfit and you are correct hta they are not poor quality I wouldn't go as far as to describe them as a Mickey Mouse outfit, but they are not, by their own positioning in the professional quality market. Undoubtedly they are fit for purpose up to a point,....... TTI also make the Ridgid brand which is Home Depot's professional range Err no. It's Home Depot's range, but the quality is not professional. I've examined some of their products quite carefully and they are most certainly not, as well as semi pro own brand tools for UK retailers. That says it all....... ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#27
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Sorry I never meant to start a flame war. Not so many years back, you could
only get the slightly more specialist power tools like angle grinders, jigsaws, routers from the "advertised" names. These days you can get more exotic stuff like biscuit cutters, planers, belt sanders that seem to be (mostly) fine for the DIY market at a fraction of the price. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"? But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm! S |
#28
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#29
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"Andy Hall" wrote in message
... On 04 Dec 2003 21:03:43 GMT, (OldScrawn) wrote: Sorry I never meant to start a flame war. It's OK, you didn't. Not so many years back, you could only get the slightly more specialist power tools like angle grinders, jigsaws, routers from the "advertised" names. One reason is because the major brand manufacturers invested in the R&D to develop them and in some areas patented the ideas. These days you can get more exotic stuff like biscuit cutters, planers, belt sanders that seem to be (mostly) fine for the DIY market at a fraction of the price. It really depends on what you are looking for. Generally DIY grade tools are intended for lowish usage rates and depending on the type of tool, may not have the accuracy, ergonomics or performance of a higher grade product. The motor controls in cordless tools are a good example of this - the better products like Makita have much better trigger control than the cheapies. Also, when buying tools there is more to the equation than the initial price tag. The important factor is really the cost over a period of time. It may be interesting in some ways to have a low price product with a three year warranty. However, if you value your time and need to return it three times during that period, you will have probably blown away any cost saving. Let's say you would bring in a tradesperson to so a job for you. Daily rates are in the £120 - £150 area. By DIYing, you save this cost. If a product needs to be returned then I reckon about 1/3 to 1/2 a day to do it - anything up to £75. For many power tools this makes the difference between something poor to average and something pretty good, so I tend to view buying just on the price tag as a false economy. Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"? Because the volume isn't there. It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. Kitchen fitters are now adopting angle drill/drivers now, becoming a "must have" tool, like their sliding mitre saws. But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm! You can always cut down a spade bit if you need to get into a tighter space with one, but there are also short augers on the market which work more easily. I've bought several Makita battery drills and all have performed faultlessly. The only fault with them is the price. Well for occasional DIY anyhow. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
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On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:54:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor. I certainly do and I am sure that a lot of other people do as well. The equation is between the cost of having the work done and doing it yourself including the cost of materials and the lifetime cost of the tools. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"? Because the volume isn't there. It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. I've tried this one out, and I am sorry but it is nowhere near Makita's quality and usability level. Kitchen fitters are now adopting angle drill/drivers now, becoming a "must have" tool, like their sliding mitre saws. Nothing new there. But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm! You can always cut down a spade bit if you need to get into a tighter space with one, but there are also short augers on the market which work more easily. I've bought several Makita battery drills and all have performed faultlessly. The only fault with them is the price. Well for occasional DIY anyhow. As I say, one needs to look at the complete equation, not just the initial price tag --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#31
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![]() "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:54:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor. I certainly do and I am sure that a lot of other people do as well. The equation is between the cost of having the work done and doing it yourself including the cost of materials and the lifetime cost of the tools. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"? Because the volume isn't there. It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. I've tried this one out, It is only new on the market. Where? when? and I am sorry but it is nowhere near Makita's quality and usability level. No one is saying Makita is poor quality. The point is, the tool for intened use, which is DIY in tis case. Nevertheless the Ryobi is good quality, works well and does what it is supposed to do. If you assess the price of the 14.4 v drill/driver as about the same as the angle drill, then that is £57 for the angle drill, when Makita's are going for £170. That is approx THREE times the price. Kitchen fitters are now adopting angle drill/drivers now, becoming a "must have" tool, like their sliding mitre saws. Nothing new there. But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm! You can always cut down a spade bit if you need to get into a tighter space with one, but there are also short augers on the market which work more easily. I've bought several Makita battery drills and all have performed faultlessly. The only fault with them is the price. Well for occasional DIY anyhow. As I say, one needs to look at the complete equation, not just the initial price tag Exactly! I am waiting for a mains cheapy to come along for the amont of use I would give one. All they are is angle grinder geared down, and you can buy them for £12. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#32
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On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:26:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. I've tried this one out, It is only new on the market. Where? when? One of the stands at the Axminster tool show last month had one. I don't remember which. and I am sorry but it is nowhere near Makita's quality and usability level. No one is saying Makita is poor quality. The point is, the tool for intened use, which is DIY in tis case. Nevertheless the Ryobi is good quality, works well and does what it is supposed to do. You've tried one? The speed control is nowhere near as good as on the Makita drills, and for a tool of this type is critical. If you assess the price of the 14.4 v drill/driver as about the same as the angle drill, then that is £57 for the angle drill, when Makita's are going for £170. That is approx THREE times the price. This depends on how you want to count it. I already said that in my view, just looking at the initial price tag only gives a small piece of the overall story. I am waiting for a mains cheapy to come along for the amont of use I would give one. All they are is angle grinder geared down, and you can buy them for £12. That's fine. If it's your understanding of the way in which an angle drill works and your use is minimal then a £12 product is probably appropriate for your needs anyway. Since it's coming up to Christmas, have a look at this https://www.hamleys.com/web/product/...&CategoryID=4& Should suit your needs and great value at only £29.95 If you promise to behave then I'll write to Santa for you. --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#33
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![]() "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 22:26:08 -0000, "IMM" wrote: It soon will be. Every 6 months or so a new battery angle drill comes onto the market, with Ryobi the latest with am excellent deal. the only point so far is that you can't buy the angle drills separately. Maybe just an initial launch promotion. At £114 it is worth getting just for the angle drill alone and throwing away the 14.4 v drill/driver, when looking the price of the competition. I've tried this one out, It is only new on the market. Where? when? One of the stands at the Axminster tool show last month had one. I don't remember which. and I am sorry but it is nowhere near Makita's quality and usability level. No one is saying Makita is poor quality. The point is, the tool for intened use, which is DIY in tis case. Nevertheless the Ryobi is good quality, works well and does what it is supposed to do. You've tried one? If it is to the quality of their drill/drivers then it is good. If you assess the price of the 14.4 v drill/driver as about the same as the angle drill, then that is £57 for the angle drill, when Makita's are going for £170. That is approx THREE times the price. This depends on how you want to count it. From 1 and the 2 and onwards. I already said that in my view, just looking at the initial price tag only gives a small piece of the overall story. The Ryobi is not a £12 cheapy. I am waiting for a mains cheapy to come along for the amont of use I would give one. All they are is angle grinder geared down, and you can buy them for £12. That's fine. If it's your understanding of the way in which an angle drill works and your use is minimal then a £12 product is probably appropriate for your needs anyway. Since it's coming up to Christmas, have a look at this https://www.hamleys.com/web/product/...&CategoryID=4& Should suit your needs and great value at only £29.95 I think they are cheaoer at B&Q If you promise to behave then I'll write to Santa for you. You are considerate. --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#34
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On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 23:26:53 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
use, which is DIY in tis case. Nevertheless the Ryobi is good quality, works well and does what it is supposed to do. You've tried one? If it is to the quality of their drill/drivers then it is good. So "no" then. If you assess the price of the 14.4 v drill/driver as about the same as the angle drill, then that is £57 for the angle drill, when Makita's are going for £170. That is approx THREE times the price. This depends on how you want to count it. From 1 and the 2 and onwards. I already said that in my view, just looking at the initial price tag only gives a small piece of the overall story. The Ryobi is not a £12 cheapy. I didn't say that it was nor that it was junk. It is suitable for some applications and budgets, but is not at Makita's standard. I am waiting for a mains cheapy to come along for the amont of use I would give one. All they are is angle grinder geared down, and you can buy them for £12. That's fine. If it's your understanding of the way in which an angle drill works and your use is minimal then a £12 product is probably appropriate for your needs anyway. Since it's coming up to Christmas, have a look at this https://www.hamleys.com/web/product/...&CategoryID=4& Should suit your needs and great value at only £29.95 I think they are cheaoer at B&Q Probably. If you promise to behave then I'll write to Santa for you. You are considerate. I'm all heart :-) --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#35
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On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:10:00 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:54:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor. I certainly do and I am sure that a lot of other people do as well. The equation is between the cost of having the work done and doing it yourself including the cost of materials and the lifetime cost of the tools. snip Personally I couldn't agree with this sentiment. I will often do the job myself because I frequently can do it to a better standard, but the primary reason for diy for me is the sheer trouble of finding someone to do the job, at any price, never mind finding someon to do it at a sensible price. Having said that I do get pleasure in diy. Paul Mc Cann |
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On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:14:25 +0000, Paul Mc Cann
wrote: On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 22:10:00 +0000, Andy Hall wrote: On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 21:54:17 -0000, "IMM" wrote: Since when have DIYers costed their time? Many are time rich, cash poor. I certainly do and I am sure that a lot of other people do as well. The equation is between the cost of having the work done and doing it yourself including the cost of materials and the lifetime cost of the tools. snip Personally I couldn't agree with this sentiment. I will often do the job myself because I frequently can do it to a better standard, but the primary reason for diy for me is the sheer trouble of finding someone to do the job, at any price, never mind finding someon to do it at a sensible price. Having said that I do get pleasure in diy. I agree with your points as well, Paul, regarding quality of work, getting people and enjoying doing the job. I was trying to relate my comments to the economic ones in terms of why I prefer to buy professional and branded tools for the most part. I also find that the better job that I can almost always do is a benefit as well, to me at least, but it's hard to quantify that,. It's also perfectly legitimate to spend one's money or something that one likes, of course........ Paul Mc Cann ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#37
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![]() "IMM" wrote in message ... "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html I bought the above for £10 and this angle driver below for a £5 at the local tool stall. Does the job well, and all for £15. Beats paying £170 http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=313405 --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.542 / Virus Database: 336 - Release Date: 18/11/2003 |
#38
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On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 10:00:10 -0000, "IMM" wrote:
"IMM" wrote in message ... "Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 22:32:46 -0000, "IMM" wrote: I have seen this attachment for sale in tool shops for £12 http://www.cumminstools.com/browse.cfm/4,132.html I bought the above for £10 and this angle driver below for a £5 at the local tool stall. Does the job well, and all for £15. Beats paying £170 http://www.tool-net.co.uk/data/index.php?ToolID=313405 It may be suitable for a purpose. This is a bit like saying that a bicycle beats a car. Without getting into the merits of exercise, both get you from A to B and the bicycle is cheaper, but that's about it... --- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#39
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In article , OldScrawn
writes Sorry I never meant to start a flame war. Not so many years back, you could only get the slightly more specialist power tools like angle grinders, jigsaws, routers from the "advertised" names. These days you can get more exotic stuff like biscuit cutters, planers, belt sanders that seem to be (mostly) fine for the DIY market at a fraction of the price. It just struck me that the angle drill is a: occasionally quite useful and b: not much more complex to make than a standard hammer drill. So why isn't anyone selling a "cheepy"? But thanks for all the response! I've always managed joists with a standard mains drill and a spade bit (sometimes in an extension). Now I really can't decide if I must have a mains angle drill for this, or whether I need a "big name" battery drill, or whether I should wait for a Ferm! S AEG make a nifty mains drill where the motor is angled at about 110 degrees to the output shaft via a chunky gearbox. The handle unclips to allow it to get into narrow spaces. Bit pricey though, about ukp 115 and not even SDS. -- Andrew |
#40
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![]() "Andrew" wrote in message ... AEG make a nifty mains drill where the motor is angled at about 110 degrees to the output shaft via a chunky gearbox. The handle unclips to allow it to get into narrow spaces. Bit pricey though, about ukp 115 and not even SDS. Here it is. Not cheap! http://www.fulhamtimber.co.uk/tool17.html http://www.toolkit-shop.co.uk/impact...ine/823057.htm and http://tinyurl.com/y3zj £99 + VAT he http://www.generalfixings.co.uk/specialoffers.htm --- -- Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.548 / Virus Database: 341 - Release Date: 05/12/2003 |
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