If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

On 09/09/16 15:15, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

I doubt it.

Being different for the sake of it, is not what brexit is about.


--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 14:59:46 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:15:40 +0100, Scott wrote:

If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer message.

Scott

And for the colour blind ?

You mean those who can distinguish brown from blue but not red from
black? I was unaware that such condition existed.

In article ,
Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the reasons
for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male population who
can't tell red from green.

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/09/16 15:59, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:28:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/09/16 15:15, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer message.

Scott

I doubt it.

Being different for the sake of it, is not what brexit is about.

Are you sure ? *Some* Brexiters seemed to think it was.

NO, really, they didn't. That was what you were supposed to think,
that's all.

In general there were three sorts of reasons to leave.

1/. People who thought the EU was economically and politically pretty
much dead, and wanted to leave before they had to pay for its collapse.

2/. People who thought it had far too much say about issues that were
none of its business, and were only there to protect vested European
interests. Those people generally have zero confidence on politicians
and consider the less there are the better.

3/. People who saw massive immigration fr9om Europe in east- and non-
Europeans, able to rapidly move across a bordereless europe and pile up
in calais.

IN the end I guess all three reason applied in my case. When you see
something wrong happening and every avenue you go down politically ends
up with 'EU says No' you tend to get pretty cynical about how much other
legislation is mindless, and serves only the interests of a
narrow lobby.



--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 09/09/16 15:59, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:15:40 +0100, Scott wrote:

If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer message.

Scott

And for the colour blind ?


just lick the cut cable ends


--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

Germany used to use Red for earth

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the reasons
for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male population who
can't tell red from green.

10% of the male population are colour blind - only 1% of women.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

The Natural Philosopher formulated the question :
In general there were three sorts of reasons to leave.

1/.

+1

2/.

+1

and 3/.

+1

On 09-Sep-16 4:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In general there were three sorts of reasons to leave.

1/. People who thought the EU was economically and politically pretty
much dead, and wanted to leave before they had to pay for its collapse.

I doubt many people really even thought about that.


2/. People who thought it had far too much say about issues that were
none of its business, and were only there to protect vested European
interests. Those people generally have zero confidence on politicians
and consider the less there are the better.

Some people found it irksome, but that wasn't what got people to the polls.




3/. People who saw massive immigration fr9om Europe in east- and non-
Europeans, able to rapidly move across a bordereless europe and pile up
in calais.

That was the killer. 300,000 net immigration requires around 100k new
homes a year, plus other infrastructure, and the government just wasn't
doing anything much about it.

Plus cultural changes. Fancy! Those Latvians really work their socks
off!






IN the end I guess all three reason applied in my case. When you see
something wrong happening and every avenue you go down politically ends
up with 'EU says No' you tend to get pretty cynical about how much other
legislation is mindless, and serves only the interests of a
narrow lobby.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 16:40:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/09/16 15:59, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:28:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/09/16 15:15, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric
wiring colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

I doubt it.

Being different for the sake of it, is not what brexit is about.

Are you sure ? *Some* Brexiters seemed to think it was.

NO, really, they didn't. That was what you were supposed to think,
that's all.

In general there were three sorts of reasons to leave.

1/. People who thought the EU was economically and politically pretty
much dead, and wanted to leave before they had to pay for its collapse.

2/. People who thought it had far too much say about issues that were
none of its business, and were only there to protect vested European
interests.
Those people generally have zero confidence on politicians and consider
the less there are the better.

3/. People who saw massive immigration fr9om Europe in east- and non-
Europeans, able to rapidly move across a bordereless europe and pile up
in calais.

And people who were told, for years, that lots of things were 'because of
the EU', when they were not - at all.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 16:31:19 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

We don't export any houses :-)

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

What sort of traffic lights do they use there?

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the reasons
for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male population who
can't tell red from green.

That I did not know.

On 09/09/16 16:54, Bob Eager wrote:


And people who were told, for years, that lots of things were 'because of
the EU', when they were not - at all.


It's very strange how all the remoaners think that the people are
stupid, and believe what they are told.

And then watched in horror as one of the most intense and vicious
propaganda campaigns since the cold war, went pear shaped because people
DID NOT believe what they were being told.

I think its called 'doublethink'

--
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on
its shoes.

I think it was supposed to help colour blind people, but to me red and black
used to be fine. After all if you really want to have contrast, you could
also make it tactile for blind electricians. How about square sleeving on
live, round on neutral, and very rough on Earth. Even I could wire a plug
then.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Scott" wrote in message
...
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

On Friday, 9 September 2016 15:15:45 UTC+1, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

I quite like the green/yellow for earth. It's nice and cheerful, but can be awkward to clip neatly for main bonding without the stripe twisting.

Owain

On 09/09/16 16:52, GB wrote:

Plus cultural changes. Fancy! Those Latvians really work their socks
off!

I like Latvians generally, have known a few and been there.

There are some countries in the EU and soon to be in the EU I am a lot
less keen on though...

On 09/09/16 18:02, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 17:18:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/09/16 16:54, Bob Eager wrote:


And people who were told, for years, that lots of things were 'because
of the EU', when they were not - at all.


It's very strange how all the remoaners think that the people are
stupid, and believe what they are told.

And then watched in horror as one of the most intense and vicious
propaganda campaigns since the cold war, went pear shaped because people
DID NOT believe what they were being told.

I think its called 'doublethink'

The problem for the leavers - and there is a delicious irony in it, for
those of us with a sense of humour - is their cleverness is going to be
their undoing.

It was a masterstroke of genius to manage to engage the masses of people
who - hitherto - had not really been involved in the political process.
And to get them onside with some soundbites was brilliance.

The problem is that the leavers are discovering *why* this bunch of
people were not politically engaged. And - being charitable - having a
long attention span is not one of their strengths.

So, I think we are seeing the Remain camp slowly re-establishing the
battleground. With the leavers trying to whip up the same level of
engagement as before. Of course the problem is now Bake off has started
and Strictly is back. Good luck there.

I wonder how many people who voted leave think that's all done and dusted
now ?

If I am right (and given I called the referendum result wrong, you are
free to ignore anything I say) then the next few months and years will
see "Brexit" being corrupted into whatever the status quo becomes in 2020.

And the Brexiters will only have themselves to blame. It's hardly like
they nailed 93 theses to the doors of Westminster. Perhaps they could
investigate the origin of "hoist with your own petard" ? Although given
it has a French word in it, I would think it unlikely.


You and every other brexit-sceptic keeps working on the assumption
brexit=certain doom.

As I said before, I did not choose a guaranteed future.

I chose a path.

And I believe it is the right path (to exit). It will not be easy, but I
have not seen Westminster for a long time actually sit down, and say:
right, it's upto us - let's make this work.

In that sense the EU was a disaster - the UK just drifted along with
relative apathy and anything that went wrong could be "blamed on the EU".

Now it has to perform for the electorate and for the country - and it
knows it. That's a good think in itself.

On 09-Sep-16 6:04 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/09/16 16:52, GB wrote:

Plus cultural changes. Fancy! Those Latvians really work their socks
off!

I like Latvians generally, have known a few and been there.

There are some countries in the EU and soon to be in the EU I am a lot
less keen on though...

There's a place near us that does pole and table dancing. Well, the
Poles love to dance. Like crazy! But the tables?

I'll just say what I think, without reference to the rest of you.

1. Unlimited migration within the EU was a real problem. We had 300k net
migration last year, and no plan to deal with it. That does not excuse
the lack of planning, though.

2. Apart from that, we were far better off in the EU. Who cares a ****
about bendy bananas? And we traded a lot with the EU without tariff
barriers. Besides, we need to be part of a large trading block for
negotiation purposes.

3. Cameron tried to limit the migration and got short shrift. I suspect
that if we tried again post Brexit, we'd get longer shrift. It is an
issue, and the EU needs to recognise it.

4. Ireland and Luxembourg offering low tax environments means that big
companies pay SFA tax. That needs tackling.

On 09/09/16 18:02, Jethro_uk wrote:
It was a masterstroke of genius to manage to engage the masses of people
who - hitherto - had not really been involved in the political process.
And to get them onside with some soundbites was brilliance.

The problem is that the leavers are discovering *why* this bunch of
people were not politically engaged. And - being charitable - having a
long attention span is not one of their strengths.


Well yes, but in the end they were simply too lazy to vote, and thats
why the leavers won.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 09/09/16 18:56, GB wrote:
2. Apart from that, we were far better off in the EU.

No, we weren't. Already its becoming clear that we have far more
opportunities outside

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...ised-UP-by-PwC



--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 09/09/2016 16:29, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 14:59:46 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:15:40 +0100, Scott wrote:

If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer message.

Scott

And for the colour blind ?

You mean those who can distinguish brown from blue but not red from
black? I was unaware that such condition existed.


Red green is common and a problem.

On 9/9/2016 1:04 PM, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 16:42:59 +0100, charles wrote:

10% of the male population are colour blind - only 1% of women.

The gene responsible is on the X chromosome - so a male only defect.

It's not male only, but it is sex-linked. Women can also inherit
colour-blindness, but only if they inherit _two_ copies of the gene, one
from each parent; men will be colour-blind with only _one_ of those genes.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 17:18:30 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 09/09/16 16:54, Bob Eager wrote:


And people who were told, for years, that lots of things were 'because
of the EU', when they were not - at all.


It's very strange how all the remoaners think that the people are
stupid, and believe what they are told.

It is clear that a lot of those who voted Leave did so without a clue.
I've spoken to quite a few.

And then watched in horror as one of the most intense and vicious
propaganda campaigns since the cold war, went pear shaped because people
DID NOT believe what they were being told.

I think its called 'doublethink'

There were outright lies on both sides, and you know that very well.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:
On 09/09/2016 16:29, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 14:59:46 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:15:40 +0100, Scott wrote:

If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer message.

Scott

And for the colour blind ?

You mean those who can distinguish brown from blue but not red from
black? I was unaware that such condition existed.


Red green is common and a problem.

which is why the earth conductor has striped insulation.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

On 09-Sep-16 9:50 PM, jim wrote:
GB Wrote in message:
On 09-Sep-16 4:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In general there were three sorts of reasons to leave.

1/. People who thought the EU was economically and politically pretty
much dead, and wanted to leave before they had to pay for its collapse.

I doubt many people really even thought about that.


2/. People who thought it had far too much say about issues that were
none of its business, and were only there to protect vested European
interests. Those people generally have zero confidence on politicians
and consider the less there are the better.

Some people found it irksome, but that wasn't what got people to the polls.




3/. People who saw massive immigration fr9om Europe in east- and non-
Europeans, able to rapidly move across a bordereless europe and pile up
in calais.

That was the killer. 300,000 net immigration requires around 100k new
homes a year, plus other infrastructure, and the government just wasn't
doing anything much about it.

Plus cultural changes. Fancy! Those Latvians really work their socks
off!

Particularly those teams of Latvian burglars working my patch a
few years ago...


Working your patch assiduously.

On 09/09/2016 18:04, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 16:42:59 +0100, charles wrote:

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric
wiring colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we
use or lump it.

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

Germany used to use Red for earth

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the
reasons for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male
population who can't tell red from green.

10% of the male population are colour blind - only 1% of women.

The gene responsible is on the X chromosome - so a male only defect.

There's more than one gene involved - according to Wiki:

Color blindness is typically inherited. It is most commonly inherited
from mutations on the X chromosome but the mapping of the human genome
has shown there are many causative mutations€”mutations capable of
causing color blindness originate from at least 19 different chromosomes
and 56 different genes (as shown online at the Online Mendelian
Inheritance in Man (OMIM)).

--
Rod

On 09/09/2016 15:15, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

Isn't it folly to treat *any* colour as safe?

--
Rod

GB Wrote in message:
On 09-Sep-16 4:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

In general there were three sorts of reasons to leave.

1/. People who thought the EU was economically and politically pretty
much dead, and wanted to leave before they had to pay for its collapse.

I doubt many people really even thought about that.


2/. People who thought it had far too much say about issues that were
none of its business, and were only there to protect vested European
interests. Those people generally have zero confidence on politicians
and consider the less there are the better.

Some people found it irksome, but that wasn't what got people to the polls.




3/. People who saw massive immigration fr9om Europe in east- and non-
Europeans, able to rapidly move across a bordereless europe and pile up
in calais.

That was the killer. 300,000 net immigration requires around 100k new
homes a year, plus other infrastructure, and the government just wasn't
doing anything much about it.

Plus cultural changes. Fancy! Those Latvians really work their socks
off!

Particularly those teams of Latvian burglars working my patch a
few years ago...

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Fri, 9 Sep 2016 21:56:41 +0100, polygonum
wrote:

On 09/09/2016 15:15, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

Isn't it folly to treat *any* colour as safe?

Fair point.

On 09/09/16 21:56, polygonum wrote:
On 09/09/2016 15:15, Scott wrote:
If Brexit goes ahead, can we have black, red and green electric wiring
colours back? I always thought 'red for danger' was a clearer
message.

Scott

Isn't it folly to treat *any* colour as safe?


Green/yellow is pretty safe....

On 09/09/2016 23:33, Tim Watts wrote:

Scott

Isn't it folly to treat *any* colour as safe?


Green/yellow is pretty safe....


Not if someone has connected it to live!

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

We don't export any houses :-)

You want to go back to the nonsense of different colours for house wiring
and flex?

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

What sort of traffic lights do they use there?

Turn the traffic light upside down, and you'd likely find out how many
don't stop at red.

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the
reasons for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male
population who can't tell red from green.

That I did not know.

It's something like 30% of males with blue eyes.

--
*Money isn‘t everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote:
I think it was supposed to help colour blind people, but to me red and
black used to be fine. After all if you really want to have contrast,
you could also make it tactile for blind electricians. How about square
sleeving on live, round on neutral, and very rough on Earth. Even I
could wire a plug then.

It's mainly a problem with red and green. Swapping line and neutral ain't
usually dangerous. But swapping line and earth is. Hence earth being
striped. Of course you still need to learn what the stripes refer to.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
GB wrote:
1. Unlimited migration within the EU was a real problem. We had 300k net
migration last year, and no plan to deal with it. That does not excuse
the lack of planning, though.

Something like half that was non EU. And despite this government pledging
to cut immigration to a trickle, they did nothing about the half which was
under their control.

In some ways, it was reflection on the success of the UK. Immigrants were
finding work here - and easily. And much of it work the UK born didn't
seem to want regardless of pay.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 09/09/2016 18:34, GB wrote:
On 09-Sep-16 6:04 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 09/09/16 16:52, GB wrote:

Plus cultural changes. Fancy! Those Latvians really work their socks
off!

I like Latvians generally, have known a few and been there.

There are some countries in the EU and soon to be in the EU I am a lot
less keen on though...

There's a place near us that does pole and table dancing. Well, the
Poles love to dance. Like crazy! But the tables?


What about the Laps?

Cheers
--
Syd

In article ,
alan_m wrote:
On 09/09/2016 23:33, Tim Watts wrote:

Scott

Isn't it folly to treat *any* colour as safe?


Green/yellow is pretty safe....


Not if someone has connected it to live!

This is the snag. Same as assuming everyone knows red is danger. There
would never be a set of colours which would be intuitive to everyone.

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Saturday, 10 September 2016 00:26:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Scott wrote:
Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

We don't export any houses :-)

The EUSSR was systematically asset stripping the UK by offering money to transfer industry to Eastern Europe.

You want to go back to the nonsense of different colours for house wiring
and flex?

Drivel.
Flexes and cable were both black and red.



Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

Go on. Tell us one of them.

On Saturday, 10 September 2016 08:10:57 UTC+1, harry wrote:
On Saturday, 10 September 2016 00:26:35 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

and flex?

Drivel.
Flexes and cable were both black and red.

There's no going back about it, most domestic wire (fixed and plugin) is a mix of redblack and bluebrown.


Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

Go on. Tell us one of them.

Germany. Red was earth.


NT

On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 00:22:22 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

We don't export any houses :-)

You want to go back to the nonsense of different colours for house wiring
and flex?

For addtions to existing circuitry that would make sense. At the
moment I have red/black and brown/blue cables and a warning sign on
the consumer unit. I cannot see how this contributes to safety.

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

What sort of traffic lights do they use there?

Turn the traffic light upside down, and you'd likely find out how many
don't stop at red.

And which countries have the traffic lights upside down? Not even the
area of the Great Western Railway?

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the
reasons for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male
population who can't tell red from green.

That I did not know.

It's something like 30% of males with blue eyes.

Is there a colour blindness test for electricians?

On 10/09/2016 09:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 00:22:22 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Of course. Makes far more sense for every country to have its own
standards. Makes exporting so much easier. They simply accept what we use
or lump it.

We don't export any houses :-)

You want to go back to the nonsense of different colours for house wiring
and flex?

For addtions to existing circuitry that would make sense. At the
moment I have red/black and brown/blue cables and a warning sign on
the consumer unit. I cannot see how this contributes to safety.

Especially those countries where red isn't danger.

What sort of traffic lights do they use there?

Turn the traffic light upside down, and you'd likely find out how many
don't stop at red.

And which countries have the traffic lights upside down? Not even the
area of the Great Western Railway?

And let's hope they all have perfect colour vision - as one of the
reasons for us changing is the large percentage of the UK male
population who can't tell red from green.

That I did not know.

It's something like 30% of males with blue eyes.

Is there a colour blindness test for electricians?

It was the first test in my medical when I joined GPO telephones in
1963. Fail meant no job IIRC.

Peter