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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly
snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. |
#2
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
On 07/09/2016 11:52, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. My guess is that you've bought the cheaper *part 1* type ballvalve. Best to buy a brass *part 2* ballvalve, these are the equalibrium type and a lot less susceptible to the problems you are having. They are a bit dearer, but much better. |
#3
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
Bod wrote:
On 07/09/2016 11:52, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. My guess is that you've bought the cheaper *part 1* type ballvalve. Best to buy a brass *part 2* ballvalve, these are the equalibrium type and a lot less susceptible to the problems you are having. They are a bit dearer, but much better. Looking at various items on eBay, I'd say that that (part 1) is exactly what I have bought. TBH, I didn't know there were various kinds available - I was just happy to be able to get a replacement locally on a Sunday afternoon :-) Now I know what to get, thanks. |
#4
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
On 07/09/2016 12:31, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Bod wrote: On 07/09/2016 11:52, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. My guess is that you've bought the cheaper *part 1* type ballvalve. Best to buy a brass *part 2* ballvalve, these are the equalibrium type and a lot less susceptible to the problems you are having. They are a bit dearer, but much better. Looking at various items on eBay, I'd say that that (part 1) is exactly what I have bought. TBH, I didn't know there were various kinds available - I was just happy to be able to get a replacement locally on a Sunday afternoon :-) Now I know what to get, thanks. Happy to help. |
#5
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
Bod wrote:
On 07/09/2016 12:31, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: Bod wrote: On 07/09/2016 11:52, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. My guess is that you've bought the cheaper *part 1* type ballvalve. Best to buy a brass *part 2* ballvalve, these are the equalibrium type and a lot less susceptible to the problems you are having. They are a bit dearer, but much better. Looking at various items on eBay, I'd say that that (part 1) is exactly what I have bought. TBH, I didn't know there were various kinds available - I was just happy to be able to get a replacement locally on a Sunday afternoon :-) Now I know what to get, thanks. Happy to help. Actually, I've another question, if I may? The header tank has an overflow pipe (of course), but has a piece inside the tank at 90 degrees that looks like it should dip into the water. It didn't dip into the water before I started messing, but I can't imagine that it serves any purpose without doing so. Should I adjust the water level so that the tip is submerged? |
#6
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
On 07/09/2016 12:43, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Bod wrote: On 07/09/2016 12:31, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: Bod wrote: On 07/09/2016 11:52, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. My guess is that you've bought the cheaper *part 1* type ballvalve. Best to buy a brass *part 2* ballvalve, these are the equalibrium type and a lot less susceptible to the problems you are having. They are a bit dearer, but much better. Looking at various items on eBay, I'd say that that (part 1) is exactly what I have bought. TBH, I didn't know there were various kinds available - I was just happy to be able to get a replacement locally on a Sunday afternoon :-) Now I know what to get, thanks. Happy to help. Actually, I've another question, if I may? The header tank has an overflow pipe (of course), but has a piece inside the tank at 90 degrees that looks like it should dip into the water. It didn't dip into the water before I started messing, but I can't imagine that it serves any purpose without doing so. Should I adjust the water level so that the tip is submerged? No, overflow pipes must have an air break to prevent any chance of syphoning. |
#7
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 11:52:59 AM UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. Might be dirt in the inlet valve |
#8
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
fred wrote:
On Wednesday, September 7, 2016 at 11:52:59 AM UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. Might be dirt in the inlet valve I suppose that would be a simple enough thing to check. |
#9
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 11:52:59 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. Yes first thing to try is turning the isolating valve down as far as is practical. Have a look at the "hole in the bottom" of the valve. If it has a female thread you can screw a short bit of plastic pipe into it which may help matters. This bit of pipe used to be supplied with the valve in days of yore You could try bending slightly the brass arm the ball valve is on. This sometimes changes/stops/reduces the wave running back and forth across the tank and might stop it. Or fit a cylindrical float in place of the ball. Or hang a small weight on the ball arm near the ball. If this corrects the problem, fix it on permanently. |
#10
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
harry wrote:
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 11:52:59 UTC+1, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. Yes first thing to try is turning the isolating valve down as far as is practical. Have a look at the "hole in the bottom" of the valve. If it has a female thread you can screw a short bit of plastic pipe into it which may help matters. This bit of pipe used to be supplied with the valve in days of yore There is no thread, and the hole isn't even proud from the surface. It's just drilled into the block, so that water just goes everywhere. You could try bending slightly the brass arm the ball valve is on. This sometimes changes/stops/reduces the wave running back and forth across the tank and might stop it. Or fit a cylindrical float in place of the ball. Or hang a small weight on the ball arm near the ball. If this corrects the problem, fix it on permanently. Yes, I don't think it would take much to disturb the equilibrium of the whole thing. I expect it can only be oscillating like it does because conditions are just right :-) |
#11
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
On 07/09/2016 16:53, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Yes, I don't think it would take much to disturb the equilibrium of the whole thing. I expect it can only be oscillating like it does because conditions are just right :-) My MiL had one like that - the feed into the loft tank went through a 90 degree bend a couple of feet from the tank, then went across the loft for 10ft, all unsupported. I tied the bend to a rafter with a bit of string, and that damped the vibration enough to shut it up. Andy |
#13
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
Maybe mine's the other way around? Maybe I bought one for gravity feed,
and fitted it to a mains feed? Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, one that goes underwater is the way to go. I need one for my toilet cistern as well as it has the wrong valve size, ie its for a mains feed not a gravity feed and so it constantly sounds like a babbling brook. Brian |
#14
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New ballcock question
On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 16:50:35 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes indeed, one that goes underwater is the way to go. I need one for my toilet cistern as well as it has the wrong valve size, ie its for a mains feed not a gravity feed and so it constantly sounds like a babbling brook. Brian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote in message ... While tying up the plastic ballcock arm in the loft, I rather stupidly snapped it. I went out and got a brass one, which seems to be a much stronger replacement, so no big deal. However, the new one is a lot noisier than the old one. Again, that wouldn't be a big deal, but when the tank is close to its full level, and the valve is near to closing, the noise starts to fluctuate. I imagine that it has created some kind of resonance in the water, and that adjusting the mains water cock will get rid of it (I only open it about a single turn). But I have a question about the new brass valve. The water comes out of a hole drilled into the bottom of the valve body. Okay, I know it's got to come out of somewhere, but since it just dribbles and splashes all over the place, I'm wondering if perhaps there shouldn't at least be some kind of nozzle to attempt to direct it (like the old plastic one had)? Am I supposed to buy something else to finish it off? I'm thinking that this might be contributing to the noise. The only difference is the jet is a bigger hole for gravity fed ones. They won't close against mains pressure. |
#15
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
In message ,
harry writes On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 16:50:35 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, one that goes underwater is the way to go. I need one for my toilet cistern as well as it has the wrong valve size, ie its for a mains feed not a gravity feed and so it constantly sounds like a babbling brook. Snip The only difference is the jet is a bigger hole for gravity fed ones. They won't close against mains pressure. Oh yes they will:-) I have just connected an old gravity fed cistern to a 5 bar mains supply. Shuts off OK but *howls* as it reaches the close off point. On dipping tubes... I thought these are not permitted on mains feeds due to suck back contamination risks. The way round was a collapsible plastic tube. -- Tim Lamb |
#16
Posted to uk.d-i-y
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New ballcock question
Tim Lamb wrote:
In message , harry writes On Wednesday, 7 September 2016 16:50:35 UTC+1, Brian Gaff wrote: Yes indeed, one that goes underwater is the way to go. I need one for my toilet cistern as well as it has the wrong valve size, ie its for a mains feed not a gravity feed and so it constantly sounds like a babbling brook. Snip The only difference is the jet is a bigger hole for gravity fed ones. They won't close against mains pressure. Oh yes they will:-) I have just connected an old gravity fed cistern to a 5 bar mains supply. Shuts off OK but *howls* as it reaches the close off point. On dipping tubes... I thought these are not permitted on mains feeds due to suck back contamination risks. The way round was a collapsible plastic tube. Or a small hole near the top of the tube to allow air back in. Tim -- Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file |
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