Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

On 04/08/16 14:35, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?


Small by decent Mig welder.

I taught myself fairly quickly and a small unit will manage 2mm steel
and 4-5mm if you "V" grind the joint and do more than one pass.

The most important/irritating thing is wire feed. Some cheap units are
rough and sticky. Smooth feed is essential and more important than most
of the other attributes.

The other is gas - I got a baby industrial CO2 cylinder - not the
throw-away ones. Very economical and lasts forever. But not too big to
be a pain to store or lug around - couple of feet long IIRC, but
otherwise heavy and proper. You need to hire this and buy a regulator.

fred Wrote in message:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?


Sub £200 gasless MIG hobby set.

Steel stock, YouTube & small starter projects required :-)

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

In message , jim
writes
fred Wrote in message:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?


Sub £200 gasless MIG hobby set.

Steel stock, YouTube & small starter projects required :-)

Tomes that were recommended on this group in the dim and distant past:
Practical Welding S. Gibson 978-0-333-60957-6
Farm and workshop welding Andrew Pearce 978-1-905523-30-6
--
Nick (=----)

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

These days you need to define what junior means by "welding" as it's
massively expanded as a field over the past 40 years when there was
essentially just gas and stick (arc).
Hopefully junior will be happy to learn stick as it's the cheapest route
so if he gets fed up with it you won't suffer too much pocket-burn.

On 8/4/2016 3:44 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

These days you need to define what junior means by "welding" as it's
massively expanded as a field over the past 40 years when there was
essentially just gas and stick (arc).
Hopefully junior will be happy to learn stick as it's the cheapest route
so if he gets fed up with it you won't suffer too much pocket-burn.


+1. While there is much to be said for gasless MIG as others have
suggested (and which is what I have), things like MAPP gas get you into
gas welding but also silver soldering which is, for many things (steam
engines, bike frames?) a more useful technique. Not too difficult to
migrate from MAPP to Oxy Acetylene and that takes you into a world of
new possibilities (car restoration for example). Or demolition which is
probably a growth industry, with all these coal fired power stations to
get rid of. (As an aside, I havn't seen any discussion of whether the
cause of the boiler house collapse at Didcot Power Station has been
established yet).

The other standard advice used to be Evening Classes, I've no idea if
these still exist.

The Welding Institute (TWI at Abington, near Cambridge) used to do some
good VHS training videos at not silly prices. But these days I guess
everything you might need is on YouTube somewhere.

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 14:35:16 UTC+1, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

Gasless mig is a dream to use. Arc/stick welding is much cheaper, and once you can arc weld you can easily mig weld. Oxyacetylene not ideal for beginners due to the ongoing cost.

I'd mention spot welding but there's pretty much nothing to learn with it.


NT

On 04/08/2016 14:35, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

https://www.youtube.com/user/weldingtipsandtricks


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

fred wrote

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

When I was in that situation I got a stick welder and started doing it with
some
scrap. And ended up doing a hell of a lot of it when building the house
because
I much prefer welded steel to doing stuff in wood. None of that has ever
failed.

And some of it was with Dexion slotted tubing that plenty
will tell you can't be done with a stick welder. They're wrong.

OTOH a mate of mine made some racks for his Landcruiser and I always cringe
every time I see that abortion so there does appear to be some knack
involved.

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 16:35:52 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

things like MAPP gas get you into
gas welding

What can you weld with MAPP?

On 8/4/2016 9:38 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, 4 August 2016 16:35:52 UTC+1, newshound wrote:

things like MAPP gas get you into
gas welding

What can you weld with MAPP?


I was thinking about this sort of thing

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/28181...ype=pla&crdt=0

but doing a bit more research it does not seem to have many devotees for
welding. I had been under the impression that it was similar to OA, only
slightly cooler, but it doesn't seem to give such an effective reducing
flame.

I'd still go back to the first point. It all depends on what sort of
things the lad wants to make. So the right answer might be stick, MIG
(normal or gasless), TIG, or OA. My point about MAPP / oxygen is that it
is a relatively cheap way into gas if you are interested in small scale
stuff. And I would still say that silver soldering might be the right
way to start: getting used to controlling temperatures and seeing the
way molten metal behaves without having your workpiece disappear before
your eyes.

The other big recommend for MIG is to get a self darkening helmet.

wrote:

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 14:35:16 UTC+1, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

Gasless mig is a dream to use. Arc/stick welding is much cheaper, and once
you can arc weld you can easily mig weld. Oxyacetylene not ideal for
beginners due to the ongoing cost.

i tend to agree once you have learned to arc weld any other type of welding
ie Mig or Tig is easy even with cheap the budget types of machines

In article ,
newshound wrote:
Not too difficult to
migrate from MAPP to Oxy Acetylene and that takes you into a world of
new possibilities (car restoration for example).

Crikey. Not known of anyone who uses Oxy Acetylene on car bodywork for
ages. Too much risk of warping. MIG is still the common way.

--
*My wife has a slight impediment in her speech. She stops to breathe.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 14:35:16 UTC+1, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

Further to other comments.
It could be the start of a good working career, important these days.
Make sure he's up on the safety aspects.
Especially eye damage.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 23:42:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 14:35:16 UTC+1, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

Further to other comments.
It could be the start of a good working career, important these days.
Make sure he's up on the safety aspects.
Especially eye damage.

Nephew got an apprenticeship with an engineering firm on the basis
that he could already do some welding work and had experience of
using plasma cutters etc,he joined the volunteer force of a preserved
railway when he was 14 and progressed from just painting things to
carriage restoration where a mentor took him under his wing and taught
him welding and some metal fabricating skills.
Certainly helped at the interview stage for the sought after vacancies
as he had references that indicated he could get out of bed and
reliably turn up as expected on a regular basis , absorb instructions
and achieve results. Such things cannot always be ascertained by
looking at exam qualifications alone.


G.Harman

In article , damduck-
scribeth thus
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 23:42:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 14:35:16 UTC+1, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

Further to other comments.
It could be the start of a good working career, important these days.
Make sure he's up on the safety aspects.
Especially eye damage.

Nephew got an apprenticeship with an engineering firm on the basis
that he could already do some welding work and had experience of
using plasma cutters etc,he joined the volunteer force of a preserved
railway when he was 14 and progressed from just painting things to
carriage restoration where a mentor took him under his wing and taught
him welding and some metal fabricating skills.
Certainly helped at the interview stage for the sought after vacancies
as he had references that indicated he could get out of bed and
reliably turn up as expected on a regular basis , absorb instructions
and achieve results. Such things cannot always be ascertained by
looking at exam qualifications alone.


G.Harman

Well done that lad then:-)...

Should think that our "electric's" Adam would like a few around like
that than the ones he usually gets saddled with;(...
--
Tony Sayer

On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 8:34:55 AM UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
In article , damduck-
scribeth thus
On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 23:42:11 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Thursday, 4 August 2016 14:35:16 UTC+1, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?

Further to other comments.
It could be the start of a good working career, important these days.
Make sure he's up on the safety aspects.
Especially eye damage.

Nephew got an apprenticeship with an engineering firm on the basis
that he could already do some welding work and had experience of
using plasma cutters etc,he joined the volunteer force of a preserved
railway when he was 14 and progressed from just painting things to
carriage restoration where a mentor took him under his wing and taught
him welding and some metal fabricating skills.
Certainly helped at the interview stage for the sought after vacancies
as he had references that indicated he could get out of bed and
reliably turn up as expected on a regular basis , absorb instructions
and achieve results. Such things cannot always be ascertained by
looking at exam qualifications alone.


G.Harman

Well done that lad then:-)...

Should think that our "electric's" Adam would like a few around like
that than the ones he usually gets saddled with;(...
--
Tony Sayer

Many thanks to all who responded. Some very usefule fodder in there. There may be an old stick welder laying about so I'll let him at it at that and he can progress to wire feed if he ia any way proficient

Well done that lad then:-)...

Should think that our "electric's" Adam would like a few around like
that than the ones he usually gets saddled with;(...
--
Tony Sayer

Many thanks to all who responded. Some very usefule fodder in there. There may
be an old stick welder laying about so I'll let him at it at that and he can
progress to wire feed if he ia any way proficient

DO lay it on hard to him that he must use eye protection at ALL times
not like a mate of mine lent him my arc welder..

Anyone know how "arc-eye" is treated at the local A&E dept;!....
--
Tony Sayer

On Friday, 5 August 2016 11:45:02 UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:

Many thanks to all who responded. Some very usefule fodder in there. There may
be an old stick welder laying about so I'll let him at it at that and he can
progress to wire feed if he ia any way proficient

DO lay it on hard to him that he must use eye protection at ALL times
not like a mate of mine lent him my arc welder..

Anyone know how "arc-eye" is treated at the local A&E dept;!....

There's arc eye, red hot metal spatter, electric shock, burn & fire to beware of.


NT

On Fri, 05 Aug 2016 02:21:12 -0700, fred wrote:

Many thanks to all who responded. Some very usefule fodder in there.
There may be an old stick welder laying about so I'll let him at it at
that and he can progress to wire feed if he ia any way proficient

Very wise. Also make sure the rods he uses are thoroughly dried through
first (stick 'em in the oven for a spell) as damp rods can really cause
BIG setbacks for learners who will doubtless attribute poor results and
difficulty striking up/maintaining an arc to all manner of more obvious
possible issues.

fred wrote:

Many thanks to all who responded. Some very usefule fodder in there. There
may be an old stick welder laying about so I'll let him at it at that and
he can progress to wire feed if he ia any way proficient


Do also buy a auto darking welding helmet even the cheap ones on ebay work
ok
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222039077872

-

On 8/5/2016 1:15 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
newshound wrote:
Not too difficult to
migrate from MAPP to Oxy Acetylene and that takes you into a world of
new possibilities (car restoration for example).

Crikey. Not known of anyone who uses Oxy Acetylene on car bodywork for
ages. Too much risk of warping. MIG is still the common way.


Perhaps I am out of date. Mind you, I don't think anyone could have
repaired some of the rusty heaps I used to drive using MIG, but it was a
joy to watch my expert mate doing it with OA.

On 8/4/2016 2:35 PM, fred wrote:
Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to start ?


I'd start with a straight forward arc welder (stick welder) ... much
cheaper than mig.
You will learn good technique.
Loads of how-to videos on youtube


If Junior gets fed up ... not lost a lot of money.

A single phase welder in the 180amp range will do you up to 4mm rods
Will run off a 13A plug on all but highest settings.

( I added a 16A socket to my garage to allow full power use)

On 8/4/2016 3:44 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

These days you need to define what junior means by "welding" as it's
massively expanded as a field over the past 40 years when there was
essentially just gas and stick (arc).
Hopefully junior will be happy to learn stick as it's the cheapest route
so if he gets fed up with it you won't suffer too much pocket-burn.



agree .... learn stick, mig has its benefits, but a good grounding in
stick welding is the way to go.

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

A lot of juniors would say 'do you know any celebs that weld? Forget it then. I'm not lowering myself to that.'


NT

On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

A lot of juniors would say 'do you know any celebs that weld? Forget it then. I'm not lowering myself to that.'


You could reply Billy Connolly who was a boilermaker though he may be
too old to be a Celeb to a 16 year old.
Possibly Nicholas Parsons as well , despite his somewhat cultured
presentation his parents insisted he took an apprenticeship in
engineering so he spent the war years in Glasgow at a pump factory
doing so.

G.Harman

On Monday, 8 August 2016 23:20:01 UTC+1, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

A lot of juniors would say 'do you know any celebs that weld? Forget it then. I'm not lowering myself to that.'


You could reply Billy Connolly who was a boilermaker though he may be
too old to be a Celeb to a 16 year old.
Possibly Nicholas Parsons as well , despite his somewhat cultured
presentation his parents insisted he took an apprenticeship in
engineering so he spent the war years in Glasgow at a pump factory
doing so.

G.Harman

And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm glad I haven't watched tv in years.


NT

On 8/9/2016 12:11 AM, wrote:
On Monday, 8 August 2016 23:20:01 UTC+1, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

A lot of juniors would say 'do you know any celebs that weld? Forget it then. I'm not lowering myself to that.'


You could reply Billy Connolly who was a boilermaker though he may be
too old to be a Celeb to a 16 year old.
Possibly Nicholas Parsons as well , despite his somewhat cultured
presentation his parents insisted he took an apprenticeship in
engineering so he spent the war years in Glasgow at a pump factory
doing so.

G.Harman

And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm glad I haven't watched tv in years.


NT

Annoying he might be, but he has a certain amount of technical knowledge
and plenty of enthusiasm. Not to mention balls.

Fred Dibnah was rather like Marmite to IMechE members. Personally, I am
pretty sure George Stephenson would have approved.

To my mind, anyone who can raise the profile of engineering to the
younger generation has to be a good thing. Those of us who were raised
in the 1950's won't forget the influence of rocketry, V Bombers, Calder
Hall, and all the other new technology.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:07:56 UTC+1, newshound wrote:
On 8/9/2016 12:11 AM, tabbypurr wrote:
On Monday, 8 August 2016 23:20:01 UTC+1, wrote:
On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 12:21:44 -0700 (PDT), tabbypurr wrote:
On Thu, 04 Aug 2016 06:35:14 -0700, fred wrote:

Junior wants to tackle welding. What would be his best/easiest way to
start ?

A lot of juniors would say 'do you know any celebs that weld? Forget it then. I'm not lowering myself to that.'


You could reply Billy Connolly who was a boilermaker though he may be
too old to be a Celeb to a 16 year old.
Possibly Nicholas Parsons as well , despite his somewhat cultured
presentation his parents insisted he took an apprenticeship in
engineering so he spent the war years in Glasgow at a pump factory
doing so.

G.Harman

And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm glad I haven't watched tv in years.

Annoying he might be, but he has a certain amount of technical knowledge
and plenty of enthusiasm. Not to mention balls.

Fred Dibnah was rather like Marmite to IMechE members. Personally, I am
pretty sure George Stephenson would have approved.

To my mind, anyone who can raise the profile of engineering to the
younger generation has to be a good thing.

+1

Those of us who were raised
in the 1950's won't forget the influence of rocketry, V Bombers, Calder
Hall, and all the other new technology.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm glad I
haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of channels
now, so you're not forced to watch either Dibna or Martin. Not that you
ever were anyway.

--
*Real women don't have hot flashes, they have power surges.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:53:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm glad I
haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of channels
now,

There have been for years. Almost all of it a bad way to spend a big chunk of one's life.


NT

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:53:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm
glad I haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of
channels now,

There have been for years. Almost all of it a bad way to spend a big
chunk of one's life.

The amount of time anyone spends watching TV isn't compulsory.

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 14:36:10 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:53:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm
glad I haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of
channels now,

There have been for years. Almost all of it a bad way to spend a big
chunk of one's life.

The amount of time anyone spends watching TV isn't compulsory.

That's really informative.

On 09/08/2016 13:34, wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:53:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm glad I
haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of channels
now,

There have been for years. Almost all of it a bad way to spend a big chunk of one's life.

But a pleasant way to spend a small part of it.

In article ,
wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 14:36:10 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:53:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm
glad I haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of
channels now,

There have been for years. Almost all of it a bad way to spend a big
chunk of one's life.

The amount of time anyone spends watching TV isn't compulsory.

That's really informative.

As was your comment of not having watched TV in years. Which I very much
doubt is true.

--
*Change is inevitable ... except from vending machines *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 17:02:57 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 14:36:10 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 10:53:52 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
tabbypurr wrote:

And of course Mr. Dibnah. And that annoying twonk Guy Martin. I'm
glad I haven't watched tv in years.

You might be interested to know there is rather a large choice of
channels now,

There have been for years. Almost all of it a bad way to spend a big
chunk of one's life.

The amount of time anyone spends watching TV isn't compulsory.

That's really informative.

As was your comment of not having watched TV in years. Which I very much
doubt is true.

So this thread has degenerated to stupid too. At least I've had a productive day.


NT

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:39:28 +0100, Clive George wrote:

But a pleasant way to spend a small part of it.

Pleasant for some, perhaps, but generally mind-rotting. Doesn't do much
for one's physique, either.

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 10:44:57 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

So this thread has degenerated to stupid too. At least I've had a
productive day.

Which is something Plowman could never honestly say.

On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 21:16:11 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:39:28 +0100, Clive George wrote:

But a pleasant way to spend a small part of it.

Pleasant for some, perhaps, but generally mind-rotting. Doesn't do much
for one's physique, either.

If one watched 2 hours of tv an evening, 2hrs x 80 years = 58,400 hrs. That's 1,460 x 40 hour working weeks, or 28 years of full time employment wasted on mindless junk.

Yet at the same time, so many people wish they had the time to do various things in their lives! It's nuts. No... I do not watch tv.


NT

On 10/08/2016 00:46, wrote:
On Tuesday, 9 August 2016 21:16:11 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:39:28 +0100, Clive George wrote:

But a pleasant way to spend a small part of it.

Pleasant for some, perhaps, but generally mind-rotting. Doesn't do much
for one's physique, either.

If one watched 2 hours of tv an evening, 2hrs x 80 years = 58,400 hrs. That's 1,460 x 40 hour working weeks, or 28 years of full time employment wasted on mindless junk.

Yet at the same time, so many people wish they had the time to do various things in their lives! It's nuts. No... I do not watch tv.

It's entirely possible to watch a lot less than 14 hours of TV in a week
yet still enjoy what there is.