I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?

davefr wrote:

I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?

I personally cannot imagine anyone learning to weld out of a book. On the
other hand, most of what you need to know you can learn from a book. Then,
regardless of which technology you choose, you should really try to watch
someone doing it. Ideally, take lessons.

If you get an AC/DC "buzzbox" style stick welder and 7014 rod, it's pretty
easy to weld acceptable joints, at least on properly fit up steel in the
horizontal position. I've made some pretty complicated structures doing exactly
that. However, later I learned how to weld with 7018 and you can use this on
tool steels, or many of them anyway.

I started with an O/A setup but I found it too hard to control the heat and
anything I tried to do which was thin would warp badly.

Lately I've been learning how to do brazing. Hope this works out ..

GWE

"davefr" wrote (clip) (acetylene or arc) (clip)
Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You could use BOTH. For light work, like sheet metal, acetylene is better.
For stuff that's thicker, acetylene becomes progressively slower and more
expensive to run. If you compare initial investment, a used buzz box is way
cheaper than torch, regulators, assortment of tips and cylinders. WAY
CHEAPER.
sci.engr.joining.welding

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"davefr" wrote (clip) (acetylene or arc) (clip)
Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You could use BOTH. For light work, like sheet metal, acetylene is
better. For stuff that's thicker, acetylene becomes progressively
slower and more expensive to run. If you compare initial investment,
a used buzz box is way cheaper than torch, regulators, assortment of
tips and cylinders. WAY CHEAPER.
sci.engr.joining.welding

Take a course.
The way I learned (community college) was to take a oxy-acetylene course
first and then go on to learn the basics of arc. The principles are (more or
less) the same, the only difference is the speed of the process.
Understanding the fusion process of welding is key to using both processes.
Brazing is another beast which will be covered in a acetylene course.
Of great concern is the safety practices you will have drilled into you in a
formal course.
To be sure, an acetylene setup is expensive but for my money is essential on
any shop.
Just buying a book and a rig is a good way to get frustrated really quick.

Hope this helps
Ken.

--
http://www.rupert.net/~solar
Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 08:07:29 -0800, davefr wrote:

I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

The easiest process to learn is MIG, and it will do the sort of work
you describe very nicely. It's good on thin metal, and a small
machine can do up to 1/8" with no problem. It's also a lot easier to
use in out-of-position welding. It's also free of the smoke and
fumes characteristic of stick welding.

Buy it from a welding store who is having a sale. Most of them will
give you a demo and at least a few minutes of hands-on coaching that
will be worth far more than any price difference. You should be
able to make a good weld in that time, and see (be shown) what both
good welds and bad welds look like. Then, buy Miller's book on MIG
welding and read it from cover to cover.

Then start practicing.

Gas is very handy for brazing and silverbrazing. It is possible to
weld with gas too, of course, but it takes a lot more practice. I
haven't gas-welded steel for 20 years, but I frequently silver-braze
small things together, particularly brass.

I consider myself a newbie at welding. So maybe my experiences can
help you?

You never mentioned if you have any equipment and what type. I had an
old Sears arc welder that I got from my father. So I naturally decided
to use it. I got a few books from the library read them over and
started practicing. My first welds were horrible. However, I soon had
the hang of it. They still look like Shyt but they hold.

Quickly, I realized the type of welding ZI was doing most often was too
light for the machine. I rented a set of bottles and started brazing.
If you prepare the surface correctly, brazing will work for most of the
light work you may need to do. I find it easier that even the arc
welding and since you don't heat up the metal as much, you tend to
get less warping.

I have no knowledge of MIG and TIG welding. If I was starting from
starch, I would buy a TIG (if I could afford it) or MIG welder. I also
agree with the gentlemen recommending attending a welding course. That
is the best approach. However, you can learn on your own. Just
don't start out building an airplane.




John

Grant Erwin wrote:

-- snip --


I started with an O/A setup but I found it too hard to control the heat and
anything I tried to do which was thin would warp badly.


Oddly enough I can hammer-weld sheetmetal parts with O/A, but so far my
efforts to wire-weld bodywork has been a disaster from start to finish.
Of course buying a welder and really practicing with it may help .

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"davefr" wrote in message
...
I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?

I would first suggest that you look for a local school, like a Community
College. For what a course costs, you will get a real deal because they
will let you thou$and$ in equipment, and give you lots of practice scrap.
This will let you get your feet wet.

The next thing if that isn't available is to have someone who already knows
how to show you the basics. You can learn as much in watching for ten
minutes as you can in a day from a book.

As a process, MIG is the shortest learning curve.

HTH

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:16:51 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"davefr" wrote in message
.. .
I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?

I would first suggest that you look for a local school, like a Community
College. For what a course costs, you will get a real deal because they
will let you thou$and$ in equipment, and give you lots of practice scrap.
This will let you get your feet wet.

The next thing if that isn't available is to have someone who already knows
how to show you the basics. You can learn as much in watching for ten
minutes as you can in a day from a book.

As a process, MIG is the shortest learning curve.

HTH

Mig is the easiest to learn. Gas welding (oxy-acetylene) is more
versatile because you can cut as well as weld with it. But then you
need to have a selection of tips. You can also soft solder and braze
with gas. And, the torch on your gas welding outfit can be used for
just plain heating up stuff, like frozen pipes or that part you want
to case harden. Also, the techniques used with gas welding can be
applied to TIG welding.. Tig welding is the most versatile. Stick
welding is harder to learn than Mig welding. But with different rods,
and the right welder, there is a huge range of materials you can weld.
Often, you can just buy a pound or two of a special rod for that
special project. And remember, once you have mastered, or at least
feel comfortable with, a particular process you will have the
confidence to try other types of projects that involve different types
of welding. So you really need to decide if you will ONLY be welding
fairlt thin sections of mild steel. Thick pieces require a pretty big
Mig welder. If it was me, and I had unlimited funds, I'd get a Tig
welder. More of a learning curve, but very versatile. If not a Tig,
and limited to only one, it would be a gas welding setup. If I was
ONLY gonna weld thin steel (up to 1/4") then the Mig is the answer. If
you know you will not be needing the heating and cutting abilities of
a torch, and you will be repairing things that are at least 1/8"
thick, and if these things are going to be dirty or painted then I'd
get a stick welder with DC capability. If you can take a welding class
you should. And try to arrange practice on as many different types of
welding as possible.
But all the above is just my opinion.
Good luck,
Eric R Snow,
E T Precision Machine

Tim Wescott wrote:
Grant Erwin wrote:

-- snip --


I started with an O/A setup but I found it too hard to control the
heat and
anything I tried to do which was thin would warp badly.


Oddly enough I can hammer-weld sheetmetal parts with O/A, but so far my
efforts to wire-weld bodywork has been a disaster from start to finish.
Of course buying a welder and really practicing with it may help .


Another trick with O/A is to use MIG
wire for filler rod. I can weld 18 ga
sheetmetal with mig wire and an 000
tip.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 08:07:29 -0800, davefr wrote:

I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?

Take a course. Your local junior college probably offers one. Believe
me, it is well worth it. DAMHIKT

--RC

Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit;
Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad

-- Suzie B

I would suggest that you start with gas because it is more versatile -
welding with gas is slower and has other disadvantages, but you can silver
solder, braze, etc, and you can also heat/aneal/cut metal, and you can heat
stuck things (like rusty bolts) and get them unstuck. An arc welder can
only weld. That said, if you will only be welding, then start with a
basic arc welder - others will no doubt provide lots of good advice - my
advice is to get a good quality used unit that goes up to around 300 amps -
shouldn't cost you over $100 if you look around.

And, yes, I learned both arc and gas welding from a book, and my welds are
ok - my local welding shop had the book. If you can read and practice, you
can learn from the book. My first gas weld project, in the 70s, was to
build the cart to hold my tanks and stuff - it's still in use today, so
though it wasn't a thing of beauty, the welds were "good enough".

"davefr" wrote in message
...
I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)

Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?

If you can, take an intro course at your local community college. The intro
course at the one closest to me covers oxyacetylene (oxyfuel), stick, MIG
and TIG. You won't get good at any of these in an intro course, but you
will probably learn enough to decide what will make the most sense for you.

It is possible for some folks to learn from books. And I mean books, not a
book. But you will learn much faster with a knowledgeable instructor. And,
not everything useful to know about welding will be in the books you use.

MIG is by far the fastest to learn. It can be used for sheet metal through
reasonably thick material. I have seen people do groove welds on 1" plate
with MIG that passed a bend test. But be aware that when operated in
short-circuit mode, which is what you in all probability will be doing, it
is very easy to create something that looks like a beautiful weld but is
nothing more than weld metal melted on top of unmelted base metal. In
other words, no fusion. Because of this, it isn't used much for structural
applications. Stick or flux core is more common for these.

IMHO TIG will probably take the longest to master. And oxyfuel will be a
close second.

Stick is somewhere in between. With it, sheet metal (say about 20 ga. and
up with the right electrode, like 6013) through very thick material can be
welded.

As far as I am concerned, oxyfuel welding is obsolete. I am not aware of
any significant commercial use. Some homebuilt aircraft builders swear by
it for welding chromemoly tubular airframes. But TIG is better. The only
advantage I can think for for oxyfuel is it will work when you have
absolutely no source of electrical power.

A cheap AC "buzz box" stick welder capable of handling 3/32" electrodes can
be purchased new on sale for around $100 and represents the cheapest way to
get into welding. AC/DC units capable of handling 1/8" electrodes can be
had not a bit more. Your only addition expenses besides the cost of
protective gear you will need with any of the processes is the cost of the
electrodes and electricity.

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:00:56 -0800, Eric R Snow
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

I tend to agree with what's said, but:

Mig is the easiest to learn.

but notoriously the easiest to make a good-looking, useless weld.

Gas welding (oxy-acetylene) is more
versatile because you can cut as well as weld with it. But then you
need to have a selection of tips. You can also soft solder and braze
with gas. And, the torch on your gas welding outfit can be used for
just plain heating up stuff, like frozen pipes or that part you want
to case harden.

Versatile yes. But for me, very expensive, because of the cost of O2
and cylinder rent. MIG has gas ana cylinder rent, but O2 disappears
with horrible rapidity.

If I was
ONLY gonna weld thin steel (up to 1/4") then the Mig is the answer.

Here I disagree. You need a _good_ MIG to weld thicker steel. You may
also need patience, as you have to shape the weld area to start the
max thickness the MIG can do, and fill the weld. however, there is a
_huge_ advantage to this. On many steels, heat input maxima are
critical. With MIG, you shape the base metal to suit, and simply run
multi passes, at often quite low currents, waiting only if the temp
gets too high, or the MIG's duty cycle runs out (which is where the
good MIG comes in).

I have welded a boot onto the ripper of a D8 dozer for use in rock. It
was 3" thick and about 12-15" deep. It's cast steel alloy of about
..3%-.4% carbon content IIRC. It took a lot of work. But a 220A MIG did
the job easily. I could have done it with less, but I am lazy! G

I am afraid that I have to admit that I used OA to prepare the weld
shape. And there you have it! G

"davefr" wrote in message
...
I'd like to learn basic welding for project work/small repairs around
the shop. I don't plan to do anything fancy and most of the work will
be with mild steel.

Which welding technology is easiest to learn and less forgiving for a
newbie?? (acetylene or arc)


Oxy/Acet is far more versatile and useful to the "garage" mechanic.
Absolutely find a local night class.

Jim Stewart wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:

Grant Erwin wrote:

-- snip --


I started with an O/A setup but I found it too hard to control the
heat and
anything I tried to do which was thin would warp badly.


Oddly enough I can hammer-weld sheetmetal parts with O/A, but so far
my efforts to wire-weld bodywork has been a disaster from start to
finish. Of course buying a welder and really practicing with it may
help .


Another trick with O/A is to use MIG
wire for filler rod. I can weld 18 ga
sheetmetal with mig wire and an 000
tip.

When I try that it cracks right at the weld when I hammer on it -- mild
steel "gas welding rod" does fine other than being BIG.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show "Ken Davey"
wrote back on Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:34:02 -0600
in rec.crafts.metalworking :
Leo Lichtman wrote:
"davefr" wrote (clip) (acetylene or arc) (clip)
Does anyone have a favorite site welding site for newbies?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You could use BOTH. For light work, like sheet metal, acetylene is
better. For stuff that's thicker, acetylene becomes progressively
slower and more expensive to run. If you compare initial investment,
a used buzz box is way cheaper than torch, regulators, assortment of
tips and cylinders. WAY CHEAPER.
sci.engr.joining.welding

Take a course.
The way I learned (community college) was to take a oxy-acetylene course
first and then go on to learn the basics of arc. The principles are (more or
less) the same, the only difference is the speed of the process.
Understanding the fusion process of welding is key to using both processes.
Brazing is another beast which will be covered in a acetylene course.
Of great concern is the safety practices you will have drilled into you in a
formal course.
To be sure, an acetylene setup is expensive but for my money is essential on
any shop.

Not only that, but you can cook, too. Hot coffee anyone?

Just buying a book and a rig is a good way to get frustrated really quick.

Some people can buy the book, read it, nd then fool around with the
hardware and have it come together.
Others are better off to read the book afterwards, so that they can get
the explanation on why it works.
And still others, they should not be left near the book, or the
hardware, cause they aren't going to learn from either one. :-)


--
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 19:35:26 GMT, pyotr filipivich
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email


Some people can buy the book, read it, nd then fool around with the
hardware and have it come together.
Others are better off to read the book afterwards, so that they can get
the explanation on why it works.
And still others, they should not be left near the book, or the
hardware, cause they aren't going to learn from either one. :-)

And others _hate_ going to school....

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:11:34 -0600, Don Foreman
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

The easiest process to learn is MIG, and it will do the sort of work
you describe very nicely. It's good on thin metal, and a small
machine can do up to 1/8" with no problem. It's also a lot easier to
use in out-of-position welding. It's also free of the smoke and
fumes characteristic of stick welding.

I take issue with that last sentence. Be very careful about that. I
realise there is less, but do not get blase or advice blaseity.

On Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:34:02 -0600, "Ken Davey"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

That simply does not work for some people.

Take a course.

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 11:39:04 +0800, OldNick
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 13:11:34 -0600, Don Foreman
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

The easiest process to learn is MIG, and it will do the sort of work
you describe very nicely. It's good on thin metal, and a small
machine can do up to 1/8" with no problem. It's also a lot easier to
use in out-of-position welding. It's also free of the smoke and
fumes characteristic of stick welding.

I take issue with that last sentence. Be very careful about that. I
realise there is less, but do not get blase or advice blaseity.

Right. Any welding produces some fumes and good ventilation is
always a prudent measure. However, MIG uses inert shielding gas to
protect the weld zone rather than clouds of smoke from a flux-covered
rod.