Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On 7/29/2016 3:47 PM, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Any risk of thefts from sheds? (Obviously, you might have an indoor
backup too).

On 29/07/2016 15:47, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.

Small buildings in strong sunshine tend to get awfully hot inside unless
you have active ventilation. Keeping dust and humidity at bay will be
the hardest part whilst maintaining an even temperature and avoiding a
condensing atmosphere. Astronomers have similar problems keeping scopes
in good condition in small observatories. It is amazing where spiders
and thrips can get into even when things are hermetically sealed.

The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

Strong summer sunshine will potentially cause you overheating problems
unless the structure is cunningly designed to be self shading. Adding
ventilation without introducing dust will be a challenge.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I tried something similar in our loft, and discovered that they get
hotter than you'd think :-)

Obviously some kind of raid or other internal back up system in case drives
running all the time peg it.
Watch out for creepy crawlies. Use a very tight piece of mesh over any air
bricks or wasps and other things move in.
The door is probably going to be your biggest challenge I think to keep
weather out. Also what happens if there is a power cut? Is there some way
you can arrange for graceful shut down from this and some way to keep the
hardware from getting too cold if its a protracted outage.
Depends how safe safe has to be I suppose.

Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Andrew" wrote in message
...
I'm looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things I'm fine with. I'm just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
I'm thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house (well
as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I still
have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud storage is
not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in the Tera
bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost perspective.
So for the structure I'm thinking of starting with a concrete base, and a
brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks. The
inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom course
of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a felt
course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature is
not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to extract
heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should keep the
temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 29/07/16 15:47, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

That will build up fast if you insulate a small space and may eb
extremely bad in summer.

The rest sounds fine though.

On 29/07/2016 15:47, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.

I've got unlimited cloud backup for $60 USD a year. Others are cheaper.
The important thing isn't your total volume of data, it's rate of
change. The backup software will get your existing videos online
eventually, and if they don't change, no more needs to be sent.

IMO you should be doing that if you're concerned about your data. The
outside server cupboard won't be as secure. Doing both is also an option
though - the local backup will be faster to restore from.

(obviously you will also need an internet link where you're not paying
per GB, but that's easy too these days).

The things I would be concerned about would be water, dirt and critters.
Also consider how much you're spending on electricity - especially if
you're adding fans, the cost does add up, and suddenly the cloud-based
storage starts to look better value.

On 29/07/2016 15:58, newshound wrote:
On 7/29/2016 3:47 PM, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Any risk of thefts from sheds? (Obviously, you might have an indoor
backup too).

Of course I have indoor backups these are 2nd level backups,
(hopefully randomware proof as the files are never overwritten( even if
changed) and are not accessible to the windows clients.
My current outdoor backups in a different building are also heavily
encrypted so that if a tea-leaf gets them they are totally useless from
a data perspective.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 29/07/2016 16:01, Martin Brown wrote:
On 29/07/2016 15:47, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.

Small buildings in strong sunshine tend to get awfully hot inside unless
you have active ventilation. Keeping dust and humidity at bay will be
the hardest part whilst maintaining an even temperature and avoiding a
condensing atmosphere. Astronomers have similar problems keeping scopes
in good condition in small observatories. It is amazing where spiders
and thrips can get into even when things are hermetically sealed.

The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

Strong summer sunshine will potentially cause you overheating problems
unless the structure is cunningly designed to be self shading. Adding
ventilation without introducing dust will be a challenge.

Agreed, the current location is in direct sunlight in an outside
building. Lost an old disk recently I don't think either the age of the
disk or the heat helped the situation. My new place is in the shade
under some large bushes, mainly to keep them out of site, and provide shade

---
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On 29/07/2016 16:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I tried something similar in our loft, and discovered that they get
hotter than you'd think :-)
Yes i found that out too, lost a disk recently. hence the new location

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On 29/07/2016 16:49, Brian Gaff wrote:
Obviously some kind of raid or other internal back up system in case drives
running all the time peg it.
Watch out for creepy crawlies. Use a very tight piece of mesh over any air
bricks or wasps and other things move in.
The door is probably going to be your biggest challenge I think to keep
weather out. Also what happens if there is a power cut? Is there some way
you can arrange for graceful shut down from this and some way to keep the
hardware from getting too cold if its a protracted outage.
Depends how safe safe has to be I suppose.

Brian

Agree with the raid as a principle, however despite using raids heavily
at work I have gone for the approach of multiple non resilient backups,
Also its cheaper and ,more flexible for my home needs

Like the point about the creepy crawlies though not thought about that one.

Power cut again an excellent point, given the risk of power cuts is low
and the cost is high to protect a couple of servers which should in
theory stand a crashed shutdown, plus i can rebuild quickly , and
recover to data to as well. I had not planned this. but is something to
consider.

As for how safe. I have had a couple of NAS drives in a locked out
building in a box to protect them from water for the past 4 years, and
no real issues (except a disk failed recently). Crime is low in our
areas. I mainly want to add a little more protection to all the family
videos (Tera Bytes), in case we ever get burgled or have a fire. I also
want to provide a reasonable environment for the devices to maximise
their life (well as long as it can be) , with out building a proper data
center with full AC, power redundancy and CCTV etc.

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On 29/07/2016 17:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Andrew
wrote:

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You're as bad as Dennis.

Dennis who, and what is wrong with Avast.

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On 29/07/2016 17:44, Tim Watts wrote:
On 29/07/16 15:47, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

That will build up fast if you insulate a small space and may eb
extremely bad in summer.

The rest sounds fine though.
Agreed , well sort of, it does get a little too cold (-5-6C), and these
server will only be active at night for the majority of their time, but
the point about a lot of heat is a valid one. I was thinking of putting
a network connected thermometer in there as well to allow monitoring and
tuning of the environment. Reason for the insulation is I don't want the
disks to spin up and be cold as this could cause moisture to build up on
the disk platters and the disk to destroy its self.


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On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 18:03:32 +0100, Andrew wrote:

On 29/07/2016 15:58, newshound wrote:
On 7/29/2016 3:47 PM, Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just
looking for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire)
I still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored.
Cloud storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home
videos (in the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed
and cost perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base,
and a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling.
There would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside
bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with
insulation between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from
the bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to
allow heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to
access the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Any risk of thefts from sheds? (Obviously, you might have an indoor
backup too).

Of course I have indoor backups these are 2nd level backups,
(hopefully randomware proof as the files are never overwritten( even if
changed) and are not accessible to the windows clients.
My current outdoor backups in a different building are also heavily
encrypted so that if a tea-leaf gets them they are totally useless from
a data perspective.

My last-ditch backups are in a storage unit ten miles away!

(BTW, your sig separator is broken...should be two dashes and a space,
not three dashes!)

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Andrew wrote:
On 29/07/2016 17:20, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Andrew
wrote:

---
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You're as bad as Dennis.

Dennis who, and what is wrong with Avast.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Apart from spuriously signing all your newsgroup messages where there is
zero threat to anyone? You can turn the Avast sig off.

As pointed out elsewhere, your sig separator is wrong too. Should be two
hyphens and a space. This allows it to be automatically stripped out of
replies to messages rather than being pointlessly requoted.

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

On 29/07/2016 18:38, Tim+ wrote:


Apart from spuriously signing all your newsgroup messages where there is
zero threat to anyone? You can turn the Avast sig off.

As pointed out elsewhere, your sig separator is wrong too. Should be two
hyphens and a space. This allows it to be automatically stripped out of
replies to messages rather than being pointlessly requoted.

Tim

Also, claiming that it has been checked for viruses is a nonsensical
thing to do. Somewhat surprising that there is any malware which doesn't
proudly proclaim how malware free it is!

The important aspect is NOT what state the message was in when it left
you, but its state when it arrives with each and every one of us. Unless
Avast can assure us that it is still malware-free, what is the point of
saying anything? It is spam.

Also, please note my use of the wider term "malware" rather than
"virus". There is an awful lot of stuff out there I wouldn't want which
is actually not technically a virus.

--
Rod

On 29/07/2016 18:22, Andrew wrote:
Reason for the insulation is I don't want the disks to spin up and be
cold as this could cause moisture to build up on the disk platters and
the disk to destroy its self.

Use helium-filled drives.

--
Rod

On Friday, 29 July 2016 15:47:52 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:

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So, basically... you have paranoia and have upset some of the people you are asking to help you because of the way you have set up your computer. Most OSs come with easy data back-up capabilitiesthese days. Have you ever considered a system that is designed by people who are security conscious?

Why don't you just form the habit of taking a USB wherever you work and backing up regularly?

Some of the flash drives available these days hold enormous amounts, are cheap plus they don't need to be turned over all the time like the good old fashioned reliable stuff.

Clive George wrote:
I've got unlimited cloud backup for $60 USD a year. Others are cheaper.
The important thing isn't your total volume of data, it's rate of
change. The backup software will get your existing videos online
eventually, and if they don't change, no more needs to be sent.

IMO you should be doing that if you're concerned about your data. The
outside server cupboard won't be as secure. Doing both is also an option
though - the local backup will be faster to restore from.

There is no such thing as 'unlimited': you will get kicked off eventually if
you have 'too much' (whatever that means). They're betting that your
dataset growth will be throttled by your upload pipe.

While it's not quite the same thing as plain storage, running servers
on-premises frequently comes in cheaper than the most barrel-scraping of
dedicated servers. For example, a recent server purchase was the cost of
renting similar hardware for 3 months - that's from a cheap host, let
alone AWS.

Power is extra, of course, but $100 or more per month buys a lot of power in
the UK - even if the datacentre has cheap power and cooling located next to
a nuclear power station in the Arctic Circle.

The things I would be concerned about would be water, dirt and critters.
Also consider how much you're spending on electricity - especially if
you're adding fans, the cost does add up, and suddenly the cloud-based
storage starts to look better value.

If you can architect the servers to be not-loud, how about keeping them
indoors somewhere the heat will be useful? In a cold room, maybe, instead of
running the heating? Or use it to dry clothes instead of running the dryer?

Theo

On 29/07/2016 20:49, Theo wrote:
Clive George wrote:
I've got unlimited cloud backup for $60 USD a year. Others are cheaper.
The important thing isn't your total volume of data, it's rate of
change. The backup software will get your existing videos online
eventually, and if they don't change, no more needs to be sent.

IMO you should be doing that if you're concerned about your data. The
outside server cupboard won't be as secure. Doing both is also an option
though - the local backup will be faster to restore from.

There is no such thing as 'unlimited': you will get kicked off eventually if
you have 'too much' (whatever that means). They're betting that your
dataset growth will be throttled by your upload pipe.

Which it will be. The one I looked at said they're fine with customers
doing 5T, which sounds like it would match what the OP wants.

While it's not quite the same thing as plain storage, running servers
on-premises frequently comes in cheaper than the most barrel-scraping of
dedicated servers. For example, a recent server purchase was the cost of
renting similar hardware for 3 months - that's from a cheap host, let
alone AWS.

Yes, this is true. And I have the amusement of watching people at work
believe Azure is going to save them money. But for storage, what it
gives you is a decent offsite backup, which is the critical thing.

On 29/07/2016 20:35, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 29 July 2016 15:47:52 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:

---
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So, basically... you have paranoia and have upset some of the people you are asking to help you because of the way you have set up your computer. Most OSs come with easy data back-up capabilitiesthese days. Have you ever considered a system that is designed by people who are security conscious?

Why don't you just form the habit of taking a USB wherever you work and backing up regularly?

Some of the flash drives available these days hold enormous amounts, are cheap plus they don't need to be turned over all the time like the good old fashioned reliable stuff.

This group used to be useful for DIY advise / discussions , but now
appears to be full of people who care more about how many dashes there
are than trying to help or calling me paranoid.
As I stated earlier I did not want to discuss IT or the merits of
different solutions. I was looking for some advice about a DIY project.

Thanks for nothing guys...



---
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Andrew wrote:
On 29/07/2016 20:35, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 29 July 2016 15:47:52 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

So, basically... you have paranoia and have upset some of the people you
are asking to help you because of the way you have set up your computer.
Most OSs come with easy data back-up capabilitiesthese days. Have you
ever considered a system that is designed by people who are security conscious?

Why don't you just form the habit of taking a USB wherever you work and
backing up regularly?

Some of the flash drives available these days hold enormous amounts, are
cheap plus they don't need to be turned over all the time like the good
old fashioned reliable stuff.

This group used to be useful for DIY advise / discussions , but now
appears to be full of people who care more about how many dashes there
are than trying to help or calling me paranoid.
As I stated earlier I did not want to discuss IT or the merits of
different solutions. I was looking for some advice about a DIY project.

Thanks for nothing guys...

Seems a bit early to be spitting your dummy out.

A number of people have raised points that you seemed grateful to receive.
Wait a bit longer and if you don't alienate everyone first, you might get
the advice that you're looking for.

Without a doubt Usenet is withering so it's not the repository of knowledge
and experience that it once was but there are still some very knowledgable
people around. Maybe you're just expecting too much?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Oh, and your sig separator is wrong. ;-) A trivial thing perhaps but it
****es people off. Your intention maybe?

Tim

--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file

On 29/07/16 22:06, Andrew wrote:
On 29/07/2016 20:35, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Friday, 29 July 2016 15:47:52 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

So, basically... you have paranoia and have upset some of the people
you are asking to help you because of the way you have set up your
computer. Most OSs come with easy data back-up capabilitiesthese days.
Have you ever considered a system that is designed by people who are
security conscious?

Why don't you just form the habit of taking a USB wherever you work
and backing up regularly?

Some of the flash drives available these days hold enormous amounts,
are cheap plus they don't need to be turned over all the time like the
good old fashioned reliable stuff.

This group used to be useful for DIY advise / discussions , but now
appears to be full of people who care more about how many dashes there
are than trying to help or calling me paranoid.
As I stated earlier I did not want to discuss IT or the merits of
different solutions. I was looking for some advice about a DIY project.

Thanks for nothing guys...

Oi - I gave you a considered reply

On 29/07/16 22:06, Andrew wrote:

This group used to be useful for DIY advise / discussions , but now
appears to be full of people who care more about how many dashes there
are than trying to help or calling me paranoid.

Your email From address is illegal and your sig is illegal


--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Fri, 29 Jul 2016 22:06:18 +0100, Andrew wrote:

appears to be full of people who care more about how many dashes there
are than trying to help or calling me paranoid.

The point about the dashes is that newsreader software will strip out
your signature so that it isn't quoted in any followup, as long as the
separator is correct. It stops the thread get cluttered, which is to your
benefit too.

You'll note that I gave an answer to your query, then politely pointed
that out at the end. Does that mean I care more about the dashes? I think
not.

It seems that either you have a thin skin, or you are innately
ungrateful, and even rude.

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 29/07/2016 18:06, Andrew wrote:
On 29/07/2016 16:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I tried something similar in our loft, and discovered that they get
hotter than you'd think :-)
Yes i found that out too, lost a disk recently. hence the new location

I have wondered about putting our home server under the suspended floor
of the house. It is currently in a cupboard in a conservatory!

It is not as bad as it sounds, a fan draws air out of the cupboard and
the air is replaced by air coming from under the house floor. So far,
although not ideal, temperatures have remained under the alarm range for
the server's ambient air temperature monitor.

On 29/07/2016 21:13, Clive George wrote:
On 29/07/2016 20:49, Theo wrote:
Clive George wrote:
I've got unlimited cloud backup for $60 USD a year. Others are cheaper.
The important thing isn't your total volume of data, it's rate of
change. The backup software will get your existing videos online
eventually, and if they don't change, no more needs to be sent.

IMO you should be doing that if you're concerned about your data. The
outside server cupboard won't be as secure. Doing both is also an option
though - the local backup will be faster to restore from.

There is no such thing as 'unlimited': you will get kicked off
eventually if
you have 'too much' (whatever that means). They're betting that your
dataset growth will be throttled by your upload pipe.

Which it will be. The one I looked at said they're fine with customers
doing 5T, which sounds like it would match what the OP wants.

While it's not quite the same thing as plain storage, running servers
on-premises frequently comes in cheaper than the most barrel-scraping of
dedicated servers. For example, a recent server purchase was the cost of
renting similar hardware for 3 months - that's from a cheap host, let
alone AWS.

Yes, this is true. And I have the amusement of watching people at work
believe Azure is going to save them money. But for storage, what it
gives you is a decent offsite backup, which is the critical thing.

Two friends of mine used to back up their systems to each other's home
systems.

On 29/07/2016 23:26, Steve Walker wrote:
On 29/07/2016 18:06, Andrew wrote:
On 29/07/2016 16:06, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Andrew wrote:
Im looking to build a small outside cupboard (data center) to store a
couple of servers in.
The server and electrical side of things Im fine with. Im just
looking
for some tips on the structure its self.
Im thinking of having this building a fair distance from the house
(well as far as I can) so if the worst ever happens (burglary or
fire) I
still have my photos/ home videos and other data safely stored. Cloud
storage is not an option due to the large quantity of home videos (in
the Tera bytes), this is from both upload / download speed and cost
perspective.
So for the structure Im thinking of starting with a concrete base, and
a brick outside . The inside having a frame made of stud walling. There
would be a waterproof layer between the studs and the outside bricks.
The inside of the stud walling would be covered in ply, with insulation
between the ply and waterproof material.
For air flow I would add a couple of breather blocks on the bottom
course of the bricks. This would also let out any condensation from the
bricks.
I would also put some vents at the top of the inside structure to allow
heat out, These could be closed in the winter.
The roof would be wood with 2 layers and insulation in between, and a
felt course to make sure it was waterproof.
Not really got any ideas as yet for the door which I would use to
access
the servers.
The important part is the inside does not get damp and the temperature
is not allowed to get too cold or hot. I may need to add some fans to
extract heat, but the heat from the servers in this small space should
keep the temperature up.
Any views / improvements / tips / crucial things I have missed?

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


I tried something similar in our loft, and discovered that they get
hotter than you'd think :-)
Yes i found that out too, lost a disk recently. hence the new location

I have wondered about putting our home server under the suspended floor
of the house.

What you're proposing is a lot of work. If you have a cellar, it's
probably trivial to chuck a NAS down there - it's what I've done for
several years and it's worked without a hitch.

Maybe a secure cupboard in case of a burglary that comprehensive.

Fire, I'm not sure. It'd have to be a real corker to affect underfloor
storage.

I don't bother - if I was subject to such a thing, I think the data loss
would be the least of my worries. I use Apple's 200GB/£2.50 month cloud
for a convenient last resort backup of the bulk of my data. The 2TB of
video/music is mostly expendable/replaceable.

--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
Andrew writes:
On 29/07/2016 17:44, Tim Watts wrote:
I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

Home servers are not normally this high.

That will build up fast if you insulate a small space and may eb
extremely bad in summer.

The rest sounds fine though.
Agreed , well sort of, it does get a little too cold (-5-6C), and these
server will only be active at night for the majority of their time, but
the point about a lot of heat is a valid one. I was thinking of putting
a network connected thermometer in there as well to allow monitoring and
tuning of the environment. Reason for the insulation is I don't want the
disks to spin up and be cold as this could cause moisture to build up on
the disk platters and the disk to destroy its self.

The server components will have a working operating temperature
range, and you need to ensure it remains within that, heating the
shed iff too cold, and powering off if too hot.

Equally important is the humidity and risk of condensation, and
you will need to control this, and it needs to be done regardless if
the server is running or not. You can do this entirely by heating.
(You don't need a dehumidifier, and they don't work at low temperatures
anyway). Keep the humidity below 80% to guarantee no risk of condensation.
Make sure the server is in the warmer part of the room when heating is
on to lower the relative himidity.

I've been controlling the environment in a large shed of a friend for
almost 3 years now, and that was so it can be used to store soft
furnishings and pieces of steel without damp damaging them, which was
happening before I put the environmental controls in. The key here is
to prevent condensation, and for some other items in the shed, also
to protect against freezing. You will need something similar.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 30/07/16 08:50, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Equally important is the humidity and risk of condensation, and
you will need to control this, and it needs to be done regardless if
the server is running or not. You can do this entirely by heating.
(You don't need a dehumidifier, and they don't work at low temperatures
anyway). Keep the humidity below 80% to guarantee no risk of condensation.
Make sure the server is in the warmer part of the room when heating is
on to lower the relative himidity.

The internal heat generated by a working computer is more than enough to
take it above the dew point.

Provided it has a roof over its head and is above flood level it will be
fine.


There is little you can do however to alleviate high temps. beyond
putting it in the shade, ventilating it, and perhaps on a vast slab of
concrete to act as a heat sink.

Some pentium chips should be avoided too. Very high tempo beast even idling.

fans will need checking periodically and remote temp monitoring is no
bad thing.



--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
The internal heat generated by a working computer is more than enough to
take it above the dew point.

That would be fine if it was running all the time, but the OP said
it won't be.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Clive George writes:
On 29/07/2016 20:49, Theo wrote:
There is no such thing as 'unlimited': you will get kicked off eventually if
you have 'too much' (whatever that means). They're betting that your
dataset growth will be throttled by your upload pipe.

Which it will be. The one I looked at said they're fine with customers
doing 5T, which sounds like it would match what the OP wants.

Do look at all the costs.
A very common catch in the commercial space is very low cost to upload
and store, and astronomic cost to retrieve the data. A great lock-in
strategy when that's your primary (or only) data store, and makes it
impossible to move to another provider. Seen several companies caught
out by not including the cost of exiting to a cheaper provider in their
cloud storage costings.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 30/07/2016 09:00, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/07/16 08:50, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
Equally important is the humidity and risk of condensation, and
you will need to control this, and it needs to be done regardless if
the server is running or not. You can do this entirely by heating.
(You don't need a dehumidifier, and they don't work at low temperatures
anyway). Keep the humidity below 80% to guarantee no risk of
condensation.
Make sure the server is in the warmer part of the room when heating is
on to lower the relative himidity.

The internal heat generated by a working computer is more than enough to
take it above the dew point.


I take it you mean temperature? Humidity isn't something the OP can do
much about if outside.

If temperature, could a headless low consumption computer lift the
temperature from a not unusual -10C to say +5C? Doubt it.

Provided it has a roof over its head and is above flood level it will be
fine.


There is little you can do however to alleviate high temps. beyond
putting it in the shade, ventilating it, and perhaps on a vast slab of
concrete to act as a heat sink.

Some pentium chips should be avoided too. Very high tempo beast even
idling.


Well, quite. For a 24/7 machine payback would be very quick if using a
low energy processor.



--
Cheers, Rob

On 30/07/16 10:38, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
The internal heat generated by a working computer is more than enough to
take it above the dew point.

That would be fine if it was running all the time, but the OP said
it won't be.

should still be OK. disks are sealed. You don't normally get
condensation on the inside of an open (vented) structure, that hasn't
got a moisture source inside it.



--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

On 30/07/16 08:50, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Andrew writes:
On 29/07/2016 17:44, Tim Watts wrote:
I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

Home servers are not normally this high.

Speak for yourself

Talking of which, I wonder what Bob's "home server" collection amounts to

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:57:12 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 30/07/16 08:50, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Andrew writes:
On 29/07/2016 17:44, Tim Watts wrote:
I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

Home servers are not normally this high.

Speak for yourself

Talking of which, I wonder what Bob's "home server" collection amounts
to

The four main servers are HP microservers with (mostly) two disks in
each. I think about 50-60W each but I haven't checked in a while so might
be a bit out.

The power hogs are the four desktops which are about 60W quiescent (each).



--
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wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:55:56 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 30/07/16 10:38, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
The Natural Philosopher writes:
The internal heat generated by a working computer is more than enough
to take it above the dew point.

That would be fine if it was running all the time, but the OP said it
won't be.

should still be OK. disks are sealed.

Well, almost.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 30/07/16 11:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:57:12 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 30/07/16 08:50, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Andrew writes:
On 29/07/2016 17:44, Tim Watts wrote:
I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

Home servers are not normally this high.

Speak for yourself

Talking of which, I wonder what Bob's "home server" collection amounts
to

The four main servers are HP microservers with (mostly) two disks in
each. I think about 50-60W each but I haven't checked in a while so might
be a bit out.

The power hogs are the four desktops which are about 60W quiescent (each).




Don't you have a PDP as well?

On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 14:57:32 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 30/07/16 11:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:57:12 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 30/07/16 08:50, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Andrew writes:
On 29/07/2016 17:44, Tim Watts wrote:
I actually think your insulation is a bad idea. The servers will be
putting out what - 200,300,400W ?

Home servers are not normally this high.

Speak for yourself

Talking of which, I wonder what Bob's "home server" collection amounts
to

The four main servers are HP microservers with (mostly) two disks in
each. I think about 50-60W each but I haven't checked in a while so
might be a bit out.

The power hogs are the four desktops which are about 60W quiescent
(each).




Don't you have a PDP as well?

Yes, but I don't run them all the time (I have three). Not to mention the
three VAXes...

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 14:57:32 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 30/07/16 11:35, Bob Eager wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jul 2016 10:57:12 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:


Don't you have a PDP as well?

Yes, but I don't run them all the time (I have three). Not to mention the
three VAXes...


Carpet cleaning fetishist are you? ;-)

Tim


--
Trolls AND TROLL FEEDERS all go in my kill file