The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

Rafael Behr Guardian



michael adams

....

On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

It was funny and cringing at the same time.

Let him have fun, he deserved it.

"Fredxxx" wrote in message ...
On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

It was funny and cringing at the same time.

Let him have fun, he deserved it.

He'd have deserved it even more, if one or more of them had
done the decent thing and clocked him one.

Now that would have been entertainment.

As it was, he was just an embarrassment.


michael adams

....

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:33:15 +0100, michael adams wrote:

The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Every dog has his day - that was Nige's. He's waited 17 years for it.

Rafael Behr Guardian

Oo-er. The Guardian; might have known.

On 29/06/16 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.


Yep - he's not helping.

Now, if everyone had listened to Thatcher in the first place, none of
this would have happened:

https://youtu.be/odb8ux3g9_8?t=53s

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:33:15 +0100, michael adams wrote:

The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Every dog has his day - that was Nige's. He's waited 17 years for it.

Rafael Behr Guardian

Oo-er. The Guardian; might have known.

The reference to

"the pursuit of football by other means"

at the end

was an allusion to Carl Von Clausewitz's celebrated dictum

"War is merely the pursuit of policy by other means"

Only Guardian readers and those educated to a similar standard, were expected
to get this illusion in the first place. So please don't feel too disappointed


michael adams

....

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:58:21 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:


Anything written in the Grauniad is certainly an illusion. Or did you
mean allusion?

No, he's clearly too highly educated to have made an ignorant mistake
like that. ;-

michael adams wrote:

Only Guardian readers and those educated to a similar standard, were expected
to get this illusion in the first place. So please don't feel too disappointed

allusion, unless it actually was an illusion! :-)

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green wrote:
michael wrote:

Only Guardian readers and those educated to a similar standard, were expected
to get this illusion in the first place. So please don't feel too disappointed


allusion, unless it actually was an illusion! :-)


Well, he is prone to seeing things which aren't there!

On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

Rafael Behr Guardian

We have never had friends in Europe (EU), and the chance of finding any
now is non-existent.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:52:42 +0100, michael adams wrote:


"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics, once an exemplar of democratic
moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit of football hooliganism by
other means.

It was funny and cringing at the same time.

Let him have fun, he deserved it.

He'd have deserved it even more, if one or more of them had done the
decent thing and clocked him one.

So now a left-winger advocates violence.
Nice bunch, aren't they.

Now that would have been entertainment.

As it was, he was just an embarrassment.


michael adams

plonk

In article , Fredxxx
writes
On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

It was funny and cringing at the same time.

Let him have fun, he deserved it.
And don't overlook the tone of the contributions which preceded him.
--
bert

michael adams wrote

The UK urgently needs friends.

Like hell it does. It has always had plenty and hasn’t lost
any of those that matter by deciding to leaving the EU.

It needs to be mending relations,

Not even possible now with the EU.

applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies.

Not even possible now with the EU.

Instead, Nigel Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting
members of the European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience
the impression that English politics, once an exemplar of democratic
moderation,

Even sillier than you usually manage.
Watch question time sometime.

has degenerated into the pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Wota terminal ****wit.

Rafael Behr Guardian

Wota surprise.

"michael adams" wrote in message
o.uk...

"Fredxxx" wrote in message
...
On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns
up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European
parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English
politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

It was funny and cringing at the same time.

Let him have fun, he deserved it.

He'd have deserved it even more, if one or more of them had
done the decent thing and clocked him one.

Now that would have been entertainment.

As it was, he was just an embarrassment.

So be embarrassed. See if anyone actually gives a damn.

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 20:33:20 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

Rafael Behr Guardian



michael adams

...

Every word he said was true.
Lefties don't like the truth, it gets in the way of their idiotic flights of fancy.
Just about every prediction he's made has come true.
Time yet for the few remaining.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 23:14:47 -0700, harry wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 20:33:20 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Rafael Behr Guardian



michael adams

...

Every word he said was true.

Including that they had never had a proper job? The people round him had
proper jobs. Heart surgeon, for a start.



--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 29/06/16 21:58, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , michael
adams wrote:

"Cursitor Doom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:33:15 +0100, michael adams wrote:

The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Every dog has his day - that was Nige's. He's waited 17 years for it.

Rafael Behr Guardian

Oo-er. The Guardian; might have known.

The reference to

"the pursuit of football by other means"

at the end

was an allusion to Carl Von Clausewitz's celebrated dictum

"War is merely the pursuit of policy by other means"

Only Guardian readers and those educated to a similar standard, were
expected
to get this illusion in the first place. So please don't feel too
disappointed

Anything written in the Grauniad is certainly an illusion. Or did you
mean allusion?

These leftyPlebs like to pretend they are educated with Big Words.



--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 29/06/16 22:30, Chris Green wrote:
michael adams wrote:

Only Guardian readers and those educated to a similar standard, were expected
to get this illusion in the first place. So please don't feel too disappointed

allusion, unless it actually was an illusion! :-)

If he can do a reverse ferret he might be able to elude that....

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

On 29/06/16 23:06, JoeJoe wrote:
On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage
turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English
politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

Rafael Behr Guardian

We have never had friends in Europe (EU), and the chance of finding any
now is non-existent.

Is that you wodney?

What utter total crap


--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

En el artículo , Tim
Streater escribió:

And how did you get out of my KF?

I was wondering the same thing.

On a lighter note:

http://www.collectedcurios.com/Burni...House_2016.jpg

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 30/06/16 11:13, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim
Streater escribió:

And how did you get out of my KF?

I was wondering the same thing.

On a lighter note:

http://www.collectedcurios.com/Burni...House_2016.jpg

Relativity childish and innacurate, but suitable for printing on toilet
paper.

--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher
escribió:

Relativity childish and innacurate

You mean "true".

Back in the twitlist you go.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

En el artículo , Cursitor Doom
escribió:

No, he's clearly too highly educated to have made an ignorant mistake
like that. ;-



--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

Now, if everyone had listened to Thatcher

She's dead. Get over it.

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/

She's about as relevant to the current situation as sex with an
armadillo.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On 30/06/16 11:55, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim Watts
escribió:

Now, if everyone had listened to Thatcher

She's dead. Get over it.

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/

She's about as relevant to the current situation as sex with an
armadillo.

"Those that refuse to learn the lessons of history are condemned to
repeat it"

Well that shows the level of ignorance you are operating in. Or deception.

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

In article , michael
adams scribeth thus

"Fredxxx" wrote in message news:nl18bk$dq3$1@dont-
email.me...
On 29/06/2016 20:33, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations, applying
soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel Farage turns up
in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the European parliament,
reinforcing for a continental audience the impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the pursuit
of football hooliganism by other means.

It was funny and cringing at the same time.

Let him have fun, he deserved it.

He'd have deserved it even more, if one or more of them had
done the decent thing and clocked him one.

Nah! He's a brit abroad they are very troublesome for the European
locals;(...



Now that would have been entertainment.

As it was, he was just an embarrassment.


michael adams

...






--
Tony Sayer

On 30/06/16 08:27, Bob Eager wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 23:14:47 -0700, harry wrote:

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 20:33:20 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:
The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Rafael Behr Guardian



michael adams

...

Every word he said was true.

Including that they had never had a proper job? The people round him had
proper jobs. Heart surgeon, for a start.


you are quite correct. He has spent years in the European Parliament and
knows perfectly well that there is loads of experience in business and
professions there. It was a barefaced lie purely for the uk cameras. He
continues to shame us all.

And Harry? - clueless, clueless, clueless.

TW

On 30/06/16 11:55, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

Now, if everyone had listened to Thatcher

She's dead. Get over it.

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/

She's about as relevant to the current situation as sex with an
armadillo.


No, What she said in 1990 was COMPLETELY relevant to where we find
ourselves now.

En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

No, What she said in 1990 was COMPLETELY relevant to where we find
ourselves now.

********. You must have a lovely view of the sand where your head is
buried.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

On Wednesday, 29 June 2016 21:02:39 UTC+1, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 20:33:15 +0100, michael adams wrote:

The UK urgently needs friends. It needs to be mending relations,
applying soothing diplomatic balm to wounded allies. Instead, Nigel
Farage turns up in swaggering pomp, crassly insulting members of the
European parliament, reinforcing for a continental audience the
impression that English politics,
once an exemplar of democratic moderation, has degenerated into the
pursuit of football hooliganism by other means.

Every dog has his day - that was Nige's. He's waited 17 years for it.

So can he be put down now.

if this were star trek he'd get removed from duty by his doctor.

On 30/06/16 13:54, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

No, What she said in 1990 was COMPLETELY relevant to where we find
ourselves now.

********. You must have a lovely view of the sand where your head is
buried.


You're the one talking ********.

If the EU superstate project had been squashed at birth (as Thatcher was
advocating when it first came up - hint, suggest listening to her, it's
all of 30 seconds), we would almost certainly not be in the mess now.
We'd have the EEC and free trade minus most of the stuff that isn't working.

On 30/06/16 13:54, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
********. You must have a lovely view of the sand where your head is
buried.

********. You must have a lovely view of the sand where your head is
buried.
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

In article ,
Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

Now, if everyone had listened to Thatcher

She's dead. Get over it.

http://www.isthatcherdeadyet.co.uk/

She's about as relevant to the current situation as sex with an
armadillo.

But even less fun.

--
*Why is a boxing ring square?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
pamela wrote:
I think Farage was trying to make a good point (that many elected
politicians don't have business experience) but a BBC Fact Check
page showed a surprising amount of business experience. Although
still not enough and still not representative of the population at
large.

All of which might be of some relevance if Farage had any experience of
the sorts of jobs the people he claims to speak for have.

After public school (any qualifications he gained there not mentioned) he
worked for several metal broking firms. Then set up his own which went
into liquidation.

It's up to the individual to decide if working as a commodities broker for
about 10 years before going into politics qualifies him as anything other
than a career politician.

--
Small asylum seeker wanted as mud flap, must be flexible and willing to travel

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

You're the one talking ********.

Oh dear. Touched a nerve there.

Hint: Ding dong, the witch is dead. Long, long dead and rotting. And
deservedly so.

Her obsessions and your geronotophilia are totally irrelevant to the
present situation.

Now, instead of hankering back to the days of your teenage wank fantasy,
if you don't mind, could we deal with the real world?

Reality: the EU is like family. We don't have to like them, but we do
need to get along with them.

The days of Rule Britannia are long gone. Deal with it, ffs. You
narrow-minded, insular ****s.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10
(")_(")

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
If the EU superstate project had been squashed at birth (as Thatcher was
advocating when it first came up - hint, suggest listening to her, it's
all of 30 seconds), we would almost certainly not be in the mess now.
We'd have the EEC and free trade minus most of the stuff that isn't
working.

Interesting hypothesis. You think there wouldn't have been a vast number
of regulations covering that free trade? You can only have a free trade
area if all follow common rules. Otherwise each country would try to gain
an advantage over the others.
For example. The UK brings in tighter controls over vehicle emissions
because of severe problems in London, etc. So any imported vehicle must
meet them too. Those living in a country where pollution wasn't such a
problem would call foul. And so on.

So who decides on those regulations to be adopted throughout that free
trade area? And fairly, so they don't give one country an advantage over
another? Some form of committee where they all are represented. All
unelected? That would never do.

All countries retain their own currency with no exchange rate controls
between them. The poorer countries flood the market with cheaply produced
goods. Like say agricultural produce.

I can quite understand mere politicians not actually having a clue about
how things work - but surely we have more sense on here?

--
*England has no kidney bank, but it does have a Liverpool.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 30/06/16 15:05, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artÃ*culo , Tim Watts
escribió:

You're the one talking ********.

Oh dear. Touched a nerve there.

Hint: Ding dong, the witch is dead. Long, long dead and rotting. And
deservedly so.

Her obsessions and your geronotophilia are totally irrelevant to the
present situation.

Now, instead of hankering back to the days of your teenage wank fantasy,
if you don't mind, could we deal with the real world?

ROFLMAO.

Reality: the EU is like family. We don't have to like them, but we do
need to get along with them.

How very childlike

The days of Rule Britannia are long gone. Deal with it, ffs. You
narrow-minded, insular ****s.

What *are* you talking about?
Oh, your bigotry is showing dear....

Bless!


--
€œBut what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!€�

Mary Wollstonecraft

On 30/06/16 15:05, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
En el artículo , Tim Watts
escribió:

You're the one talking ********.

Oh dear. Touched a nerve there.

Hint: Ding dong, the witch is dead. Long, long dead and rotting. And
deservedly so.

Her obsessions and your geronotophilia are totally irrelevant to the
present situation.

No it isn't.

Now, instead of hankering back to the days of your teenage wank fantasy,
if you don't mind, could we deal with the real world?

That is the real world you dickhead. What she said then was extremely
relevant.

Reality: the EU is like family. We don't have to like them, but we do
need to get along with them.

Exactly. We were getting along just fine as neighbours, then some fool
said we should all move in together. Big mistake.




The days of Rule Britannia are long gone. Deal with it, ffs. You
narrow-minded, insular ****s.


Pragmatic.

There is no way (outside of the minds of socialists who live in some
sort of fantasy land) that a dozen nations are ever going to get along
well enough to live in the same house. Hint: that's why they evolved
into the nations they are now.

However, it is perfectly possible to be nice neighbours. And that's
where Thatcher said we should stop. And clearly she was right.

And yet, like so many, history passes you by.

On 30/06/16 15:15, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
If the EU superstate project had been squashed at birth (as Thatcher was
advocating when it first came up - hint, suggest listening to her, it's
all of 30 seconds), we would almost certainly not be in the mess now.
We'd have the EEC and free trade minus most of the stuff that isn't
working.

Interesting hypothesis. You think there wouldn't have been a vast number
of regulations covering that free trade? You can only have a free trade
area if all follow common rules. Otherwise each country would try to gain
an advantage over the others.
For example. The UK brings in tighter controls over vehicle emissions
because of severe problems in London, etc. So any imported vehicle must
meet them too. Those living in a country where pollution wasn't such a
problem would call foul. And so on.

It's an interesting problem.

But surely, it would be perfectly reasonable for a vehicle manufacturer
to decide which part sof the market he wishes to target?

eg - if 60% of sales on a smaller town car go to France and Britain, and
they announce they are tightening emissions, the manufacturer can decide
to improve his small car engine(s).

However, if only 10% of his SUV class car exports to the same areas, he
might not bother with that and just not make it available.

Seems both easy and fair.

The only rule I can see is one of fair warning: ie 3 years (say) between
announcement and implementation.


It would also be possible for the EEC to set EEC standards: eg EEC car
emission standard. If you make a car to the standard, you are able to
sell it anywhere without fuss. If you ignore it, you have to deal with
the specific rules of the countries you are exporting to.


This makes the system a much more flexible and voluntary one, rather
than a dictatorial system.

Most car makes would probably target the standard if they could for an
easy life - but in edge cases, they don't have to.

I think the EEC would do that much better. The the EEC is not regulating
- it is facilitating trade.

So who decides on those regulations to be adopted throughout that free
trade area? And fairly, so they don't give one country an advantage over
another? Some form of committee where they all are represented. All
unelected? That would never do.

All countries retain their own currency with no exchange rate controls
between them. The poorer countries flood the market with cheaply produced
goods. Like say agricultural produce.

I can quite understand mere politicians not actually having a clue about
how things work - but surely we have more sense on here?

In article ,
Tim Watts wrote:
Interesting hypothesis. You think there wouldn't have been a vast number
of regulations covering that free trade? You can only have a free trade
area if all follow common rules. Otherwise each country would try to gain
an advantage over the others.
For example. The UK brings in tighter controls over vehicle emissions
because of severe problems in London, etc. So any imported vehicle must
meet them too. Those living in a country where pollution wasn't such a
problem would call foul. And so on.

It's an interesting problem.

But surely, it would be perfectly reasonable for a vehicle manufacturer
to decide which part sof the market he wishes to target?

eg - if 60% of sales on a smaller town car go to France and Britain, and
they announce they are tightening emissions, the manufacturer can decide
to improve his small car engine(s).

However, if only 10% of his SUV class car exports to the same areas, he
might not bother with that and just not make it available.

Not much point in being in a free trade area if you don't want to export.

So we'll get along just fine outside the EU.

--
*What boots up must come down *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.