http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ritain-vote-EU

harry Wrote in message:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ritain-vote-EU


Given Switzerland's application has been "dormant" for 20 odd
years does this change anything in reality?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

No they finished the tunnel.

What is going on in Austria today. Today absolutely nothing happened in
Austria, breaking news, or is that wind?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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"jim" k wrote in message
...
harry Wrote in message:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ritain-vote-EU


Given Switzerland's application has been "dormant" for 20 odd
years does this change anything in reality?
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.

That was before the current situationthough.

Who cares.
Brian


--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Mark" wrote in message ...
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.


Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect them
to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will have to
accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand we switch to
the Euro which they can't if we stay.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block
its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.


Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect them to
stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will have to
accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand we switch to
the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

tim

On 17/06/16 11:50, dennis@home wrote:
On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to
block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.


Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect them
to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will have to
accept it.

No, they wont.
Wanting doesnt get.


If they want to be really evil they could demand we switch to
the Euro which they can't if we stay.

I am sure they will try, but Denise, the reality is that the people who
are most afraid of Britain leaving the EU, are the EU and thiose riding
its gravy train.

Without Britain's contributions their bribes to European politicians
must be reduced, and without those bribes, those politicians may not
care to sit in the EU either.

The EU is fighting for its own survival, more than even Britain is.

All those cosy backroom deals done with the EU by many many interested
parties for profit, will fall apart if the EU does.

the whole Green energy scam may collapse If Britain 'does a Geldof' to
the EUs renewables policy.

The emperors new green clothes...indeed.

Likewise if Britain strikes a new social contract with its population
and gets back to productive work, that drives a cart and horse through
the EUs social chapter or whatever its called.

What the EU fears more than anything, is that Britain would be
successful outside it.

As most European countries that are already, are.




--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 17/06/16 11:59, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to
block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.


Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand we
switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********


'complete and utter ********' and 'dennis', usually go together.
tim





--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

On 17/06/16 12:25, Tim Streater wrote:
In article . com,
dennis@home wrote:

On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to
block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.

Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand we
switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

You must be a conman's delight, Den. When anyone shoves a contract
under your nose and sez: "This is our standard contract", do you just
sign it without reading?

Probably.

--
"Women actually are capable of being far more than the feminists will
let them."

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to block
its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.


Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect them to
stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will have to
accept it.

How odd that only 3 of these did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...ade_agreements

If they want to be really evil they could demand we switch to the Euro

And Britain would be free to tell them to go and **** themselves.

which they can't if we stay.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand
we switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

Are any of those countries in Europe? Having to pay a lot of money to fly
to a distant country isn't the same as being able to hop on a bus to one.

Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left and then
negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the matter with the UK
leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU than at
present, other EU countries will want the same.

I'm really surprised this isn't obvious to all.

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:59:19 +0100, tim... wrote:

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

The EU grew out of the Treaty of Rome in the 1950s. That treaty set four
basic freedoms of movement - goods, services, capital and people.

Nothing has changed around those four since. It's the basis of the entire
EU - and was the basis of the entire EC before it, even before the UK
first applied to join in 1961, and certainly before we actually joined in
1973.

The EU is far more than a free trade deal.

On 17/06/16 14:09, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:59:19 +0100, tim... wrote:

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

The EU grew out of the Treaty of Rome in the 1950s. That treaty set four
basic freedoms of movement - goods, services, capital and people.

Nothing has changed around those four since. It's the basis of the entire
EU - and was the basis of the entire EC before it, even before the UK
first applied to join in 1961, and certainly before we actually joined in
1973.

The EU is far more than a free trade deal.

And was when we joined it on the false basis that it was just a free
trade deal.

EU and lies have always been bedfellows.


--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 17/06/16 11:59, tim... wrote:

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 17/06/2016 07:48, harry wrote:
On Friday, 17 June 2016 00:03:40 UTC+1, Mark wrote:
harry wrote:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...and-withdraws-
application-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU

from that link

"Two years ago the Swiss public voted in a referendum to impose
immigration
quotas but Brussels refused to grant the request, threatening to
block its
free trade access if it wanted to curb free movement."

Just shows what stupid evil buggers run the EUSSR.


Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand we
switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********


'complete and utter ********' and 'dennis', usually go together.

(Unfortunately) my comment wasn't really aimed at Dennis. There are many
far more credible people that him who claim the same thing

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand
we switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

Are any of those countries in Europe? Having to pay a lot of money to fly
to a distant country isn't the same as being able to hop on a bus to one.

Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left and then
negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the matter with the UK
leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU than at
present, other EU countries will want the same.

Hm, what better deal could some of these countries expect to get?

Let's say Hungary.

Currently its entry fee for being allowed to be in the single market is
MINUS 5 billion pounds per year (ours is plus 7 billion)

How far do you think Hungary would get with a demand for MINUS 10 million to
stay in?

tim

"Adrian" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:59:19 +0100, tim... wrote:

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

The EU grew out of the Treaty of Rome in the 1950s. That treaty set four
basic freedoms of movement - goods, services, capital and people.

Nothing has changed around those four since. It's the basis of the entire
EU - and was the basis of the entire EC before it, even before the UK
first applied to join in 1961, and certainly before we actually joined in
1973.

Not true

the Freedom of Movement rules were made more generous in the Maastricht
Treaty.

some of the things that we want to stop now would have been possible under
the previous rules

tim

On Friday, 17 June 2016 14:09:07 UTC+1, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:59:19 +0100, tim... wrote:

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

The EU grew out of the Treaty of Rome in the 1950s. That treaty set four
basic freedoms of movement - goods, services, capital and people.

Nothing has changed around those four since. It's the basis of the entire
EU - and was the basis of the entire EC before it, even before the UK
first applied to join in 1961, and certainly before we actually joined in
1973.

The EU is far more than a free trade deal.

What has changed is the basket case economies allowed to join.
This is it's downfall.
And demanding "Ever closer union".

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
tim... wrote

Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they
will have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could
demand we switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and
immutably linked is complete and utter ********

Are any of those countries in Europe?

Irrelevant.

Having to pay a lot of money to fly to a distant country
isn't the same as being able to hop on a bus to one.

Can't do that to Ireland.

Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left

Neither Denmark, Switzerland or Iceland were that.

and then negotiated this 'better' deal.

Don’t need to negotiate anything if Britain leaves.

If the EU is actually stupid enough to insist that any deal
involves the free movement of people, Britain is free to
do without any deal and trade under the WTO rules instead.

That is how the US and China trade with the EU and that works fine.

That is the crux of the matter with the UK leaving.

Nope.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the
EU than at present, other EU countries will want the same.

Not the ones that receive more from the EU than they pay into
the EU and plan to have the EU bail them out when their banks
implode because the eurozone was never going to work while ever
any country could do what it likes with its budget in its own country.

I'm really surprised this isn't obvious to all.

So stupid that you haven't even noticed that the US and China
don’t need any agreement with the EU and trade with the EU
under the WTO and done hand the EU a cent to do that and
don’t have to accept any of the 'refugees' that show up in the
EU across the Med.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand
we switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

Are any of those countries in Europe? Having to pay a lot of money to fly
to a distant country isn't the same as being able to hop on a bus to one.

Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left and then
negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the matter with the UK
leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU than at
present, other EU countries will want the same.

I'm really surprised this isn't obvious to all.

It isn't obvious because it is utter ********. The UK is not seeking a
"better deal". We will be seeking a different deal. None or small
tariffs, just the same as other non-EU countries. What on earth has
being in the geographic continent of Europe got to do with it? If the EU
is such a great organisation why should they wish to "punish" someone
for leaving? Surely they should pity us.
--
bert

In article ,
harry writes
On Friday, 17 June 2016 14:09:07 UTC+1, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:59:19 +0100, tim... wrote:

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

The EU grew out of the Treaty of Rome in the 1950s. That treaty set four
basic freedoms of movement - goods, services, capital and people.

Nothing has changed around those four since. It's the basis of the entire
EU - and was the basis of the entire EC before it, even before the UK
first applied to join in 1961, and certainly before we actually joined in
1973.

The EU is far more than a free trade deal.

What has changed is the basket case economies allowed to join.
This is it's downfall.
And demanding "Ever closer union".
And the Euro creating a club within the club.
--
bert

In article , jim
writes
harry Wrote in message:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...thdraws-applic
ation-join-European-Union-Brexit-Britain-vote-EU


Given Switzerland's application has been "dormant" for 20 odd
years does this change anything in reality?
Well only recently Plowperson was telling us the Swiss thought we would
be mad to leave the EU. Shows how reliable his information is.
--
bert

Please, this is a circular argument and I'm getting dizzy.

If the UK ccould up anchor and sail off somewhere it might be a good idea to
leave, otherwise to me it will probably be best to stay, but its all
dependent on an uncertain future for the EU in any case.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"bert" wrote in message
...
In article , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Its one of the principle founding ideas of the EU you can't expect
them to stop doing it and if the UK wants a free trade deal they will
have to accept it. If they want to be really evil they could demand
we switch to the Euro which they can't if we stay.

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

Are any of those countries in Europe? Having to pay a lot of money to fly
to a distant country isn't the same as being able to hop on a bus to one.

Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left and then
negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the matter with the UK
leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU than at
present, other EU countries will want the same.

I'm really surprised this isn't obvious to all.

It isn't obvious because it is utter ********. The UK is not seeking a
"better deal". We will be seeking a different deal. None or small tariffs,
just the same as other non-EU countries. What on earth has being in the
geographic continent of Europe got to do with it? If the EU is such a
great organisation why should they wish to "punish" someone for leaving?
Surely they should pity us.
--
bert

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Friday, 17 June 2016 14:09:07 UTC+1, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jun 2016 11:59:19 +0100, tim... wrote:

The EU has free trade deals with approx 50 countries outside the EU.

in none of these deals is there a requirement for "free movement of
people".

The idea that the two things are intrinsically and immutably linked is
complete and utter ********

The EU grew out of the Treaty of Rome in the 1950s. That treaty set four
basic freedoms of movement - goods, services, capital and people.

Nothing has changed around those four since. It's the basis of the entire
EU - and was the basis of the entire EC before it, even before the UK
first applied to join in 1961, and certainly before we actually joined in
1973.

The EU is far more than a free trade deal.

What has changed is the basket case economies allowed to join.

Could have sworn that that basket case economy, Italy, was in it right from
the start.

This is it's downfall.
And demanding "Ever closer union".

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left and
then negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the matter
with the UK leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU than
at present, other EU countries will want the same.

Hm, what better deal could some of these countries expect to get?

Let's say Hungary.

Currently its entry fee for being allowed to be in the single market is
MINUS 5 billion pounds per year (ours is plus 7 billion)

How far do you think Hungary would get with a demand for MINUS 10
million to stay in?

Interesting. Your killer decision on the EU is how much we pay into the
budget?

--
*WHY IS IT CALLED TOURIST SEASON IF WE CAN'T SHOOT AT THEM?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left and
then negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the matter
with the UK leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU than
at present, other EU countries will want the same.

Hm, what better deal could some of these countries expect to get?

Let's say Hungary.

Currently its entry fee for being allowed to be in the single market is
MINUS 5 billion pounds per year (ours is plus 7 billion)

How far do you think Hungary would get with a demand for MINUS 10
million to stay in?

Interesting. Your killer decision on the EU is how much we pay into the
budget?

I said nothing of the sort.

I am showing that there is little scope for those countries who are Nett
recipients of EU money to get a "better" deal by leaving, so why would they
"try".

(And I am also dis-ing the oft claimed point that there is a "fee" to be a
member of the single market)

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left
and then negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the
matter with the UK leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU
than at present, other EU countries will want the same.

Hm, what better deal could some of these countries expect to get?

Let's say Hungary.

Currently its entry fee for being allowed to be in the single market
is MINUS 5 billion pounds per year (ours is plus 7 billion)

How far do you think Hungary would get with a demand for MINUS 10
million to stay in?

Interesting. Your killer decision on the EU is how much we pay into
the budget?

I said nothing of the sort.

I am showing that there is little scope for those countries who are Nett
recipients of EU money to get a "better" deal by leaving, so why would
they "try".

Think you've not actually been following much. Why would they not get the
same benefits of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will? Sovereignty. The
ability to decide our own destiny. Set up trade agreements with every
other country in the world. And, of course, go back to having their own
currency. Close their borders to immigrants.



(And I am also dis-ing the oft claimed point that there is a "fee" to
be a member of the single market)


Collins GEM English Dictionary
fee n. payment for professional services; charge paid to be allowed to do
something.

Seems as good a word as any to me.

--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/06/16 16:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:

I am showing that there is little scope for those countries who are Nett
recipients of EU money to get a "better" deal by leaving, so why would
they "try".

Think you've not actually been following much. Why would they not get the
same benefits of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will? Sovereignty. The
ability to decide our own destiny. Set up trade agreements with every
other country in the world. And, of course, go back to having their own
currency. Close their borders to immigrants.

And what would be the problem if they did ask for that, and got it?

For them a loss of income into their politicians back pockets. For the
EU, a massive loss of face.

--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that
all government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is
fully understood.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote
tim... wrote

I am showing that there is little scope for those
countries who are Nett recipients of EU money to get
a "better" deal by leaving, so why would they "try".

Think you've not actually been following much.

It's you with that problem.

Why would they not get the same benefits
of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will?

Because they get more cash from the EU
than they put into the EU, unlike with Britain.

(And I am also dis-ing the oft claimed point that
there is a "fee" to be a member of the single market)

Collins GEM English Dictionary
fee n. payment for professional services;
charge paid to be allowed to do something.

Seems as good a word as any to me.

Except that those countrys don’t pay anything to be part of the EU, they
RECEIVE great slabs of cash instead, so there is no 'fee' to be part of that
club.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Also, were any of these countries once a full EU member and left
and then negotiated this 'better' deal. That is the crux of the
matter with the UK leaving.

If the UK leave and can then negotiate a better deal with the EU
than at present, other EU countries will want the same.

Hm, what better deal could some of these countries expect to get?

Let's say Hungary.

Currently its entry fee for being allowed to be in the single market
is MINUS 5 billion pounds per year (ours is plus 7 billion)

How far do you think Hungary would get with a demand for MINUS 10
million to stay in?

Interesting. Your killer decision on the EU is how much we pay into
the budget?

I said nothing of the sort.

I am showing that there is little scope for those countries who are Nett
recipients of EU money to get a "better" deal by leaving, so why would
they "try".

Think you've not actually been following much. Why would they not get the
same benefits of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will? Sovereignty. The
ability to decide our own destiny. Set up trade agreements with every
other country in the world. And, of course, go back to having their own
currency. Close their borders to immigrants.

because something that we get by (completely) leaving is not having to pay
several billion into the EU.

The thing that they will get is not having a HANDOUT of several billion from
the EU.

Do you not see that that is a huge deterrent from them leaving.

(FTAOD, I consider the costs saving to be simply a minor benefit of us
leaving, I'm just using it to show you the different positions of individual
countries)

tim

"The Natural Philosopher" wrote in message
...
On 18/06/16 16:41, Tim Streater wrote:
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

In article ,
tim... wrote:

I am showing that there is little scope for those countries who are
Nett
recipients of EU money to get a "better" deal by leaving, so why would
they "try".

Think you've not actually been following much. Why would they not get
the
same benefits of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will? Sovereignty.
The
ability to decide our own destiny. Set up trade agreements with every
other country in the world. And, of course, go back to having their own
currency. Close their borders to immigrants.

And what would be the problem if they did ask for that, and got it?

For them a loss of income into their politicians back pockets. For the EU,
a massive loss of face.

The loss of face will have occurred when/if we leave

you are making Dave's point for him

tim



--
All political activity makes complete sense once the proposition that all
government is basically a self-legalising protection racket, is fully
understood.

In article ,
tim... wrote:
Think you've not actually been following much. Why would they not get
the same benefits of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will?
Sovereignty. The ability to decide our own destiny. Set up trade
agreements with every other country in the world. And, of course, go
back to having their own currency. Close their borders to immigrants.

because something that we get by (completely) leaving is not having to
pay several billion into the EU.

The thing that they will get is not having a HANDOUT of several billion
from the EU.

Do you not see that that is a huge deterrent from them leaving.

(FTAOD, I consider the costs saving to be simply a minor benefit of us
leaving, I'm just using it to show you the different positions of
individual countries)

It shows what you think it may be.

If the net *direct* costs of EU membership (both positive and negative)
are so important compared to the overall economic benefits of being in a
free trade area, surely those who are net contributors would all want out?

You really can't treat the EU as being of one voice just when it suits you.

--
*If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
tim... wrote:
Think you've not actually been following much. Why would they not get
the same benefits of leaving that the BREXITs claim we will?
Sovereignty. The ability to decide our own destiny. Set up trade
agreements with every other country in the world. And, of course, go
back to having their own currency. Close their borders to immigrants.

because something that we get by (completely) leaving is not having to
pay several billion into the EU.

The thing that they will get is not having a HANDOUT of several billion
from the EU.

Do you not see that that is a huge deterrent from them leaving.

(FTAOD, I consider the costs saving to be simply a minor benefit of us
leaving, I'm just using it to show you the different positions of
individual countries)

It shows what you think it may be.

If the net *direct* costs of EU membership (both positive and negative)
are so important compared to the overall economic benefits of being in a
free trade area, surely those who are net contributors would all want out?

No, because as has been previously discussed, most of these countries are
politically signed up to ever closer union

Please do me the courtesy of remembering previous discussion on the same
subject and don't make me tell you them again so that you can make you point

You really can't treat the EU as being of one voice just when it suits
you.

I am not

That, it seems, is you

tim

In article ,
tim... wrote:
If the net *direct* costs of EU membership (both positive and
negative) are so important compared to the overall economic benefits
of being in a free trade area, surely those who are net contributors
would all want out?

No, because as has been previously discussed, most of these countries
are politically signed up to ever closer union


Please do me the courtesy of remembering previous discussion on the same
subject and don't make me tell you them again so that you can make you
point

Given you seem to make the same mistakes or assumptions over and over
again, rather difficult.

You really can't treat the EU as being of one voice just when it suits
you.

I am not

But you are. You put forward and argument why the UK can should leave, but
then somehow assert the same argument doesn't apply to any other EU
country.

That, it seems, is you

--
*Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.