Hi all


The DIY bit is that I will be overseeing!

This is a follow up to "Electrical Regs and Business Requirements" from
17-05-16.

Adam has defined the lack of RCDs on our workplace power circuits as C3.
In the Electrical Safety First document, this is listed as Improvement
Recommended.
How do the insurance companies view this category? If it has been
recommended, do they consider this mandatory?

My initial reaction was to suggest that we fit an external RCD protected
socket for any outside work and prohibit "extension leads through the
window" type situations.

In terms of the general use, the only items that will be regularly
plugged and unplugged to present a possible danger are the kettle and
the vacuum.

Phil

On 25/05/16 09:39, thescullster wrote:
Hi all


The DIY bit is that I will be overseeing!

This is a follow up to "Electrical Regs and Business Requirements" from
17-05-16.

Adam has defined the lack of RCDs on our workplace power circuits as C3.
In the Electrical Safety First document, this is listed as Improvement
Recommended.
How do the insurance companies view this category? If it has been
recommended, do they consider this mandatory?

My initial reaction was to suggest that we fit an external RCD protected
socket for any outside work and prohibit "extension leads through the
window" type situations.

In terms of the general use, the only items that will be regularly
plugged and unplugged to present a possible danger are the kettle and
the vacuum.

Phil

All I can add is what I've seen my employer do (a big university).

Nothing by default has RCD protection.

But sockets in public and meeting room areas have built in RCDs - these
are sockets you expect students and visitors to be using.

Sockets in the office (including recently added ones) I do not believe
are RCD protected and I have never seen an RCBO in any of the industrial
panels in a university environment (and they definately will not use an
RCD that knocks out a bunch of circuits).

"thescullster" wrote in message
...
Hi all


The DIY bit is that I will be overseeing!

This is a follow up to "Electrical Regs and Business Requirements" from
17-05-16.

Adam has defined the lack of RCDs on our workplace power circuits as C3.
In the Electrical Safety First document, this is listed as Improvement
Recommended.
How do the insurance companies view this category? If it has been
recommended, do they consider this mandatory?

A C3 should not matter to the insurance company.

My initial reaction was to suggest that we fit an external RCD protected
socket for any outside work and prohibit "extension leads through the
window" type situations.

That is your risk assesment. Do you use extention leads and use power
outside? If so then your risk assement is good and I would fit RCD sockets
[1].



In terms of the general use, the only items that will be regularly plugged
and unplugged to present a possible danger are the kettle and the vacuum.


That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)


The EICR has two words on it that are relevant

Satisfactory and Unsatisfactory.

If there are no C1 or C2 codes then the installation is maked as
Satisfactory and the insurance company will be happy.

[1] I would prefer the RCD to be on the inside eg via a RCD fused spur - I
am not a big fan of external RCDs and believe that they should be tested
every 12 months

--
Adam

On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 09:39:19 UTC+1, thescullster wrote:
In terms of the general use, the only items that will be regularly
plugged and unplugged to present a possible danger are the kettle and
the vacuum.

The kettle is probably used at one particular socket near a sink. Change socket for an RCD one.

Consider using an RCD plug fitted to the vacuum cleaner flex, although they're less reliable than RCD sockets especially when they get bashed about. You might also schedule those two appliances for more frequent than annual visual inspections.

Owain

On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior, though.

Owain

In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

All three of my domestic vacuum cleaners are Class 2. Unless damaged in
some way I'm not sure how an RCD would improve their safety outdoors when
cleaning the car?

Garden tools like mowers and hedge clippers are far more of a risk - the
chances of cutting the flex.

--
*WHY ARE HEMORRHOIDS CALLED "HEMORRHOIDS" INSTEAD OF "ASTEROIDS"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

All three of my domestic vacuum cleaners are Class 2. Unless damaged in
some way I'm not sure how an RCD would improve their safety outdoors when
cleaning the car?

Henrys are Class 1

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a works
computer to post to usenet in works time-)

but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

--
Adam

"charles" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

All three of my domestic vacuum cleaners are Class 2. Unless damaged in
some way I'm not sure how an RCD would improve their safety outdoors when
cleaning the car?

Henrys are Class 1


I have not seen one that is Class I

--
Adam

In article ,
ARW wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a
works computer to post to usenet in works time-)

but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

when it was a "Works Car" we did that with one of Henry's relatives.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England

"TheChief" wrote in message
...
"ARW" Wrote in message:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a
works
computer to post to usenet in works time-)

but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

--
Adam



In my defence posts written on work time with work PC whilst
drinking work supplied cuppa are very occasionally work
related.

No hoovering of cars allowed though!

No apprentices then :-(

So what are the risk/chances of an employee at your place using 230V
electrical equipment outside?

It really is that simple. Fit a dedicated outside RCD socket or two if you
believe it is needed or take a play on Owains suggestion and use internal
RCD sockets near the doors to the office.





--
Adam

"ARW" Wrote in message:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a works
computer to post to usenet in works time-)

but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

--
Adam



In my defence posts written on work time with work PC whilst
drinking work supplied cuppa are very occasionally work
related.

No hoovering of cars allowed though!

Phil


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

All three of my domestic vacuum cleaners are Class 2.

One for each floor?



--
Adam

On Thursday, 26 May 2016 18:22:17 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.
At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a works
computer to post to usenet in works time-)
but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

Depends on the type of work, the type of car, and the type of owner.

In some places it would be normal for the janitor or handyman to clean the boss's car, especially if it was going to be used to transport a valued client.

Owain

In article ,
ARW wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

All three of my domestic vacuum cleaners are Class 2.

One for each floor?

Don't be silly. I said 3, not 6.

--
*Thank you. We're all refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 25/05/2016 09:39, thescullster wrote:
Hi all


The DIY bit is that I will be overseeing!

This is a follow up to "Electrical Regs and Business Requirements" from
17-05-16.

Adam has defined the lack of RCDs on our workplace power circuits as C3.
In the Electrical Safety First document, this is listed as Improvement
Recommended.
How do the insurance companies view this category? If it has been
recommended, do they consider this mandatory?

My initial reaction was to suggest that we fit an external RCD protected
socket for any outside work and prohibit "extension leads through the
window" type situations.

In terms of the general use, the only items that will be regularly
plugged and unplugged to present a possible danger are the kettle and
the vacuum.

Phil

Thanks to all responders.

I'll discuss the comments with the testing company (who will probably
end up doing the work) and try to avoid being conned into unnecessary work.
Yes I know it's not my money, but there's a principle here.

Phil

On 26/05/2016 20:11, ARW wrote:
"TheChief" wrote in message
...
"ARW" Wrote in message:
wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, 25 May 2016 19:47:12 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
the vacuum.
That's PAT testing - unless you want to hoover the car park:-)

Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.

At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a
works
computer to post to usenet in works time-)

but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

--
Adam



In my defence posts written on work time with work PC whilst
drinking work supplied cuppa are very occasionally work
related.

No hoovering of cars allowed though!

No apprentices then :-(

So what are the risk/chances of an employee at your place using 230V
electrical equipment outside?

It really is that simple. Fit a dedicated outside RCD socket or two if
you believe it is needed or take a play on Owains suggestion and use
internal RCD sockets near the doors to the office.






Hi Adam

We did try an apprentice once but he didn't last.
Ours is a quite intense design office environment and I think he saw his
mates having fun in more practical hands on roles and quit. Bit of a
pain having put some effort into his training etc.

As for the risk, this is probably more with odd job men who want to plug
extensions for circular saws and other power tools into kitchen sockets
and trail them out the window for building maintenance work.

I appreciate you can't rely on this, but do any workmen carry their own
RCDs for this sort of situation? Having cut through hedge trimmer flex
myself, I might be inclined to.

Phil

"thescullster" wrote in message
...

I appreciate you can't rely on this, but do any workmen carry their own
RCDs for this sort of situation? Having cut through hedge trimmer flex
myself, I might be inclined to.


My work tools are 110V or cordless.

I would say someone doing odd jobs with 240V tools should supply their own
RCD.

--
Adam

wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 26 May 2016 18:22:17 UTC+1, ARW wrote:
Not that uncommon to take the vacuum outside to clean a car interior,
though.
At an office? It's bad enough the staff buggering around and using a
works
computer to post to usenet in works time-)
but hoovering out the car with the works hoover in works time?

Depends on the type of work, the type of car, and the type of owner.

In some places it would be normal for the janitor or handyman to clean the
boss's car, especially if it was going to be used to transport a valued
client.


Which is why I said that it is Phil's risk assesment as to the need for a
RCD socket.

--
Adam