Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?

--
David

Lobster wrote:

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised

You can choose whether the meter is read every 30 minutes, once a day or
once a month, unlikely anyone could infer much about your movements with
the latter option which was the default with my supplier.

anything else?

The supplier can remotely disconnect your for non-payment, then again
they can gain entry to disconnect you or change the meter to pre-payment
anyway, there's the small risk of accidental or malicious disconnection.

On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:46:14 +0000, Lobster wrote:

Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason
that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?

There was a HUGE hoo-hah about smart meters on the Libertarian forums
recently. Apparently it's Big Brother Big Time and another significant
breach of personal privacy (don't ask me why, but that's what the
consensus was).
So basically unless there's some specific reason why you would actually
*want* one fitted, you should say 'no thanks.'

On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

--
Adrian C

On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will be monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.


NT

On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:39:25 UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will be monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

and it will be used for marketing, in much the same way that many companies do this now but deny it.


NT

Adrian Caspersz wrote:

From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

That seems to be raised every time smart meters are mentioned, yes a
future supplier may not be able to read the meter "smartly" but they do
have numbers on the display that are compatible with Human Eyeball v1.0
you know, just like mechanical meters or electronic meters! So you could
change suppliers and provide your own readings, or let the meter-man do
it ...

In article ,
Lobster writes:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?

The only plus sides I'm aware of at the moment for you a
An in-house display of energy usage (assuming they're offering that).
Automated meter readings.

The down-sides a
They (or anyone who hacks their network) can cut off your power
remotely without visiting.
Your usage patterns will be available to them (and anyone who
hacks their network) and might reveal things you wouldn't make
public (such as when you're away).
There's not yet a standard for Smart meters, and if you change
provider, they might not be able to use the Smart features.

The security/privicy concerns many people who have looked at
the technology, and the companies and government have not yet
addressed this.

The main consumer benfits of Smart metering, e.g. variable tarifs,
or even multiple providers, are not yet in place or even proposed
yet. Currently, the benefits are mainly with the supplier, and
the remote cut-off is the one they particularly like.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
snip
The main consumer benfits of Smart metering, e.g. variable tarifs,
or even multiple providers, are not yet in place or even proposed
yet. Currently, the benefits are mainly with the supplier, and
the remote cut-off is the one they particularly like.

I too was worried about being cut off by a software fault, but the man on
the phone asking me what my objection was to a smart meter seemed not to
know about this possibility, saying that the meter only sends readings. On
that basis I had no objection so allowed EDF to install it.

I am dubious about whether it has a cut-off switch, because surely it would
have to be big and beefy to switch the vast amperage I might be taking? As
far as I can find out, the only variant of this particular meter
incorporates a pair of contacts rated at 2A (not in mine), which might well
be used to operate a big external contactor.

The meter does benefit me by not requiring me to send them my reading when I
get a provisional bill, then waiting for an accurate bill.
--
Dave W

Dave W wrote:

I am dubious about whether it has a cut-off switch

Did you not see the reply where I showed that your model certainly has
remote disconnect? You said it was a GE SGM13xx ...

Now taken over by Aclara.

The spec says "Internal Load Switch: Contactor rated at 100A"

http://www.aclara.com/smart-meters/ice-smart-meters/sgm1300

On Saturday, 21 May 2016 21:21:29 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:

I too was worried about being cut off by a software fault, but the man on
the phone asking me what my objection was to a smart meter seemed not to
know about this possibility, saying that the meter only sends readings. On
that basis I had no objection so allowed EDF to install it.

Does that mean you let them install it because they blatantly lied to you?

On Sat, 21 May 2016 18:55:42 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

The supplier can remotely disconnect your for non-payment, then again
they can gain entry to disconnect you or change the meter to pre-payment
anyway,

That all takes time and money from the supplier. Clicking a tick box
and "save" is very cheap by comparison.

... there's the small risk of accidental or malicious disconnection.

But not no risk and Sods Law says that any such event will take place
at time of maximum inconvience, so 0200 on a Sunday morning mid
winter with and howling gale outside. Will *all* suppliers have
someone avialable 24/7 to reinstate supplies? I doubt it some don't
even have 24/7 "Customer Service" anyway. Oh and it is your supplier
not the DNO you'll need to contact as the DNO's responsibilty ends at
the main cutout terminals.

--
Cheers
Dave.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you?

You dont have to bother to read it or make sure some monkey can do that.

AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without any formal action of any
sort,

Yes.

on a whim effectively,

Even sillier than you usually manage.

and your use will be monitored so that conclusions get
drawn about what you're doing to a limited extent.

Even sillier than you usually manage.

i'm not seeing any upside.

Yes, you actually are that stupid.

Even if you dont read the meter yourself currently,
the cost of having some minimum wage monkey
reading them is a cost that is better avoided so you
can get cheaper electricity and gas than you would
otherwise get.

Yeah, yeah, I know, they'll just pocket the difference
in such an aggressively competitive market...

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:39:25 UTC+1, wrote:
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the
supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will
be monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

and it will be used for marketing, in much the same way that many
companies do this now but deny it.

How odd that they dont with the phone bill where
they know much more about how I use those.

The most my mobile provider ever does send me
an email when my monthly bill for the pay as you
go service is higher than their cheapest plan and
I just ignore that because I know that that is a one off.

The landline provider doesnt even do that, essentially
because I make **** all calls on that now.

The VSP doesnt do any marketing based on how I use that.

"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.


There is no risk that you cannot switch provider

The risk is that the new provider cannot make use of the "smart" facilities,
but that's their problem, given that the OP isn't getting the meter because
*he* wants those features.

tim

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.


Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter frequently so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per month. So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

On Sun, 22 May 2016 08:19:31 +0100, tim... wrote:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 21/05/16 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.


Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter frequently so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per month. So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)


ISTR a 'trial' where peak-time supply was charged at a much higher rate then
reduced when off peak. I very much doubt that the 'reduction' could possibly
make up for the extra cost and inconvenience.
The thought of not having ashower after 4 hours hard work in the garden,
then cooking dinner so late that it's eaten less than 4 - 5 hours before
going to bed doesn't appeal to me at all.
The whole scheme is to make more profit for the suppliers.
Was there also something about Germany rejecting the sort of meters that
we're in danger of being lumbered with? (Bit like DAB: other countries don't
use our version but we are due to the ignorance, incompetence, stupidity and
corruption of politicians).
That feels better!

--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

In message , Rod Speed
writes

You dont have to bother to read it or make sure some monkey can do that.

I see reading the meter myself as an advantage, not a disadvantage. My
current (ha ha) supplier sends an e-mail once a month, requesting a
reading, which I add to my list of readings, then copy to the supplier's
web site.

Two advantages. I pay for what I have used, and I can see a pattern.
--
Graeme

I was given to understand that all premises had to have them by the year
2020, but there are going to be some exceptions due to the remoteness of a
site. As for advertising you are away, surely the finger would point pretty
directly at the company monitoring the meter if you got burgled while away.
I understand the paying young uns to throw stuff at bedroom windows at
different times of day can quite a good way to detect empty premises.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Lobster" wrote in message
. 222...
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?

--
David

I'd be more worried about faults caused by the over complexity of this
device. I'm also attempting to find out if the new meters can be read by my
computer. Everyone seems to be saying that one cannot do this directly only
via the companies web site with a password to allow more devices to be
catered for.
Fine, but if this means it is not constantly read, then how can one figure
out what is going on?
I understand their remote controller can do this, but at the current time
its inaccessible if yu cannot see, it has large text but a touch screen.
It will be interesting to see what they do when we disabled ask for
reasonable adjustments. grin.
Also i have no gas supply here, and I understand dual fuel folk are being
fitted first for some reason.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Andy Burns" wrote in message
...
Lobster wrote:

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I
should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised

You can choose whether the meter is read every 30 minutes, once a day or
once a month, unlikely anyone could infer much about your movements with
the latter option which was the default with my supplier.

anything else?

The supplier can remotely disconnect your for non-payment, then again they
can gain entry to disconnect you or change the meter to pre-payment
anyway, there's the small risk of accidental or malicious disconnection.

In article ,
"Brian Gaff" writes:
I was given to understand that all premises had to have them by the year
2020,

Government has now said no one will be forced to have one.

It would need a lot more benefits for me before I would consider one.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Brian Gaff wrote:

I'd be more worried about faults caused by the over complexity of this
device.

I'd counted that within "accidental"

I'm also attempting to find out if the new meters can be read by my
computer. Everyone seems to be saying that one cannot do this directly only
via the companies web site with a password to allow more devices to be
catered for.

That would be the way I'd expect them to deal with it, though they could
produce a talking version of the in home display, or even a USB, WiFi or
ZigBee interface to the display.

Fine, but if this means it is not constantly read, then how can one figure
out what is going on?

You can request half hourly rather than monthly readings. Though that
might just give a file of numbers that would be a bit boring with a
speech synthesiser.

I understand their remote controller can do this, but at the current time
its inaccessible if yu cannot see, it has large text but a touch screen.

Mine has physical buttons but not amazingly large text.

Also i have no gas supply here, and I understand dual fuel folk are being
fitted first for some reason.

I do have dual fuel, but no idea if electricity only users are being
avoided, gas users who have a different electricity supplier would be
out of luck.

In article ,
"tim..." writes:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter frequently so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per month. So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

It's worse than that. If you ask people beforehand how much it costs
to boil the kettle, they usually guess about 10p. When they find out
it's actually less than 1p, they stop trying the savings they were
doing before having a smart meter. It really backfires badly!

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 22/05/2016 08:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
I'd be more worried about faults caused by the over complexity of this
device. I'm also attempting to find out if the new meters can be read by my
computer. Everyone seems to be saying that one cannot do this directly only
via the companies web site with a password to allow more devices to be
catered for.
Fine, but if this means it is not constantly read, then how can one figure
out what is going on?
I understand their remote controller can do this, but at the current time
its inaccessible if yu cannot see, it has large text but a touch screen.
It will be interesting to see what they do when we disabled ask for
reasonable adjustments. grin.

All they need to do is give you a phone number so you can call and ask
what the meter reading is. They can read it remotely and tell you.

News wrote
Rod Speed wrote

You dont have to bother to read it or make sure some monkey can do that.

I see reading the meter myself as an advantage, not a disadvantage.

More fool you. It makes a lot more sense to have it read
automatically and to check the reading on the web site if
you want to do that rather than to wait till the bill shows up.

My current (ha ha) supplier sends an e-mail once a month, requesting a
reading, which I add to my list of readings, then copy to the supplier's
web site.

Two advantages.

Nope.

I pay for what I have used,

You do when the smartmeter is read automatically too.

and I can see a pattern.

You do when you see the bill too.

On Sun, 22 May 2016 08:09:58 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Gabriel wrote:

It would need a lot more benefits for me before I would consider one.

I would if they(*) also replaced the board, moved the cut out and all
the meters to that board and fitted switch fuses into all four feeds.
I'll supply the board, it's fixings and the switch fuses.

(*) What chance do you think I have in getting three suppliers and
the DNO co-ordianted enough for all that to happen on the same day.

--
Cheers
Dave.

"Lobster" wrote in message
. 222...

Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?


Have a read of this:
Who controls the off switch?
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Paper...-offswitch.pdf

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 21:21:29 UTC+1, Dave W wrote:

I too was worried about being cut off by a software fault, but the man on
the phone asking me what my objection was to a smart meter seemed not to
know about this possibility, saying that the meter only sends readings.
On
that basis I had no objection so allowed EDF to install it.

Does that mean you let them install it because they blatantly lied to you?

You tell me. On what basis do you say it was a blatant lie?
--
Dave W

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim..." writes:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the
supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will
be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter frequently
so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per month.
So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

It's worse than that. If you ask people beforehand how much it costs
to boil the kettle, they usually guess about 10p. When they find out
it's actually less than 1p, they stop trying the savings they were
doing before having a smart meter. It really backfires badly!


Some people do listen and understand.

I have just swapped 10 50W halogen spot lights with 4.5W cool white LEDs at
the local pizza shop. I am not usually a fan of cool white but it has
altered the shop lighting and we did a trial run to make sure they liked the
colour.

Lights on from 16.30 to 02.00ish every day and the lamps cost £31.80.

I guess a payback in about 120 days



--
Adam

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim..." writes:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the
supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use will
be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter frequently
so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per month.
So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars bar,
you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

It's worse than that. If you ask people beforehand how much it costs
to boil the kettle, they usually guess about 10p. When they find out
it's actually less than 1p, they stop trying the savings they were
doing before having a smart meter. It really backfires badly!


Some people do listen and understand.

I have just swapped 10 50W halogen spot lights with 4.5W cool white LEDs
at the local pizza shop. I am not usually a fan of cool white but it has
altered the shop lighting and we did a trial run to make sure they liked
the colour.

Lights on from 16.30 to 02.00ish every day and the lamps cost £31.80.

I guess a payback in about 120 days

including the cost of your invoice?

tim

On 21/05/2016 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?


I was called and asked if I wanted one by EDF. I just said no.

--
Michael Chare

On 21/05/2016 18:46, Lobster wrote:
Sorry if we've done this here before but I can't find anything...

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my electricity
and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any reason that I should?

I know that potentially publicising when your home is empty is one point
which has been raised - anything else?


I tried to get smart meters fitted because basically I CBA reading the
meter any more. So timeline was

1) contact offering smart meter from energy supplier in March 2015. "We
are in your area". "We", being some third party bunch of meter fitters.

2) third party bunch turn up as appointed in March 2015, suck their
teeth and tell me that the leccy meter is bust, and northern powergrid
would have to sort it.

3) northern powergrid take four months to sort it. Only two phone calls
mind. One to book the appointment for four months time (earliest they
could do), and one from them to say "we're on our way".

4) re-contact energy supplier, but they are no longer "in our area".

5) fast forward to April 2016, so now 13 months after the initial
contact. They are once again "in my area". Joy.

6) third party cowboys turn up, and replace both meters. Then fail to
set up the IHD. They then change both meters until they're sort of
happy. I notice that the gas isn't reading properly on the IHD but
apparently it has to "settle in". What?

7) third party cowboys scuttle off.

8) IHD is not reading Gas. It says a constant 'high' usage. Leccy part
works okay. Responsive reading of current usage. Worried what it's
reporting to the supplier. Stratospheric bill incoming?

9) energy supplier confirms - gas meter is "off network" , and will
require fettling. Can't say when, because they are not "in my area" any
more.

I've now spent four days annual leave on these clowns, and 13 months
after my initial request, it still doesn't bloody work.

If anyone wants smart meters, I do hope your installation goes better
than mine.

On 21 May 2016, Lobster grunted:

British Gas are asking me to have smart meters installed for my
electricity and gas usage. I understand that I can decline - any
reason that I should?

Interesting thread... I shall indeed be declining the generous offer!

--
David

On Sunday, 22 May 2016 08:57:08 UTC+1, News wrote:
In message , Rod Speed
writes

You dont have to bother to read it or make sure some monkey can do that.

I see reading the meter myself as an advantage, not a disadvantage. My
current (ha ha) supplier sends an e-mail once a month, requesting a
reading, which I add to my list of readings, then copy to the supplier's
web site.

for me that is extra hassle as I've never had to do that before.
Before teh smartmeter they used to come around and check the meter readings themselves, niow I have to do it for them.



Two advantages. I pay for what I have used,

that should be the same whether or not yuo or someone else reads the meter.

and I can see a pattern.

a pattern which you can't see from your bills ?
I always saw a pattern even before reading teh meter.


--
Graeme

On 22/05/2016 17:04, tim... wrote:

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim..." writes:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the
supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may
be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this
giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off
without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use
will be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter
frequently so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per
month. So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars
bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

It's worse than that. If you ask people beforehand how much it costs
to boil the kettle, they usually guess about 10p. When they find out
it's actually less than 1p, they stop trying the savings they were
doing before having a smart meter. It really backfires badly!


Some people do listen and understand.

I have just swapped 10 50W halogen spot lights with 4.5W cool white
LEDs at the local pizza shop. I am not usually a fan of cool white but
it has altered the shop lighting and we did a trial run to make sure
they liked the colour.

Lights on from 16.30 to 02.00ish every day and the lamps cost £31.80.

I guess a payback in about 120 days

including the cost of your invoice?

tim




Probably given they save a unit every 2 hours, so about 4.5 units a day.
What is the commercial rate for electricity these days? about 6p?
About 10 minutes work so probably a couple of free pizzas.

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 22/05/2016 17:04, tim... wrote:

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim..." writes:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the
supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may
be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this
giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off
without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use
will be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter
frequently so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per
month. So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars
bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

It's worse than that. If you ask people beforehand how much it costs
to boil the kettle, they usually guess about 10p. When they find out
it's actually less than 1p, they stop trying the savings they were
doing before having a smart meter. It really backfires badly!


Some people do listen and understand.

I have just swapped 10 50W halogen spot lights with 4.5W cool white
LEDs at the local pizza shop. I am not usually a fan of cool white but
it has altered the shop lighting and we did a trial run to make sure
they liked the colour.

Lights on from 16.30 to 02.00ish every day and the lamps cost £31.80.

I guess a payback in about 120 days

including the cost of your invoice?

tim




Probably given they save a unit every 2 hours, so about 4.5 units a day.
What is the commercial rate for electricity these days? about 6p?
About 10 minutes work so probably a couple of free pizzas.

I've got a leccy job that needs doing

I wonder if Adam will drive to/from my house and only charge me NMW for the
time actually spent in the house

tim

"tim..." wrote in message
...

"dennis@home" wrote in message
web.com...
On 22/05/2016 17:04, tim... wrote:

"ARW" wrote in message
...
"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"tim..." writes:

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, 21 May 2016 19:24:20 UTC+1, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
Decline. From what I understand, the meters are particular to the
supply
company. If you want to switch supplier later, that in itself may
be a
problem.

Besides, it's a bit like FaceBook. How much information is this
giving
them. How much will you get back from this relationship?

How does it benefit you? AFAIK it just means you can be cut off
without
any formal action of any sort, on a whim effectively, and your use
will be
monitored so that conclusions get drawn about what you're doing to a
limited extent. i'm not seeing any upside.

Having one is supposed to "encourage" you to check the meter
frequently so
that you learn that leaving the lights on costs you 27p extra per
month. So
in order to be able to keep that 27p to spend on, oh half a Mars
bar, you
turn the unnecessary lights off.

Surveys show that the novelty wears off after a month or so :-)

It's worse than that. If you ask people beforehand how much it costs
to boil the kettle, they usually guess about 10p. When they find out
it's actually less than 1p, they stop trying the savings they were
doing before having a smart meter. It really backfires badly!


Some people do listen and understand.

I have just swapped 10 50W halogen spot lights with 4.5W cool white
LEDs at the local pizza shop. I am not usually a fan of cool white but
it has altered the shop lighting and we did a trial run to make sure
they liked the colour.

Lights on from 16.30 to 02.00ish every day and the lamps cost £31.80.

I guess a payback in about 120 days

including the cost of your invoice?

tim




Probably given they save a unit every 2 hours, so about 4.5 units a day.
What is the commercial rate for electricity these days? about 6p?
About 10 minutes work so probably a couple of free pizzas.

I've got a leccy job that needs doing

I wonder if Adam will drive to/from my house and only charge me NMW for
the time actually spent in the house

He doesn’t get his pizzas at your place.

On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:46:14 +0000, Lobster wrote:

I understand that I can decline - any reason
that I should?


Ovo insisted that we had new meters. On the premise that they were smart
meters and they needed to be sure our meters were under a certain age. We
already had smart meters and they were approx 4 years old. They persisted
so I yielded.

I wish I had refused as the meter fitter stole my U gauge and we are now
on our second gas leak since he wrestled our meter out and wrestled a new
one into it's place.

If it aint broke.....

They take readings now every 30 mins but still take the same amount from
me each month and always owe me £100s.

On 23/05/2016 21:37, R D S wrote:

They take readings now every 30 mins but still take the same amount from
me each month and always owe me £100s.

Tell them you want the 100s back...

--
F

On Thu, 26 May 2016 11:30:38 +0100, F wrote:

On 23/05/2016 21:37, R D S wrote:

They take readings now every 30 mins but still take the same amount
from me each month and always owe me £100s.

Tell them you want the 100s back...

I've found E.on very good. They listen if I point out the regular payment
is too high. And every April they review the year and give me the correct
refund.



--
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