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UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
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#1
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Mouse advice please
We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation.
At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. However, after the short term fix (if it works) a longer term solution is called for. The mice seem to be entering through the kitchen cupboard under the sink, probably through access holes cut for the plumbing. We have no idea if the nest is under the run of cupboards, under the floor (anywhere in the house), or outside. Initial research indicates that if you can get a pencil through a hole then a mouse can get through - this means that air bricks could be allowing access. Sealing up obvious access holes under the sink with foam may be a short term solution (I presume they can eat their way through foam given time). Other solutions appear to include ultrasonic mouse scarers. I tend to view these with suspicion, but they may well work. Has anyone any experience of these? Oh, and one web site recommends humane traps, then taking them at least 2 miles away. ISTR reading that releasing pests such as rats and mice into the countryside is illegal. Initial Googling suggests that in 2008 it was illegal to release black rats or grey squirrels and that any other rodent had to be treated in a "humane" way which is open to interpretation. For example releasing a house mouse in a field well away from all houses may not be considered "humane". At the moment we are reluctant to set lethal traps because of the unpleasant task of clearing them of dead or injured mice. I still distinctly remember back in the '70s having to kill a mouse which was caught in a traditional trap. Not fun. So - any tried and tested mouse eradication strategies most welcome. Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
#2
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 12:20, David wrote:
We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. However, after the short term fix (if it works) a longer term solution is called for. The mice seem to be entering through the kitchen cupboard under the sink, probably through access holes cut for the plumbing. We have no idea if the nest is under the run of cupboards, under the floor (anywhere in the house), or outside. Initial research indicates that if you can get a pencil through a hole then a mouse can get through - this means that air bricks could be allowing access. Sealing up obvious access holes under the sink with foam may be a short term solution (I presume they can eat their way through foam given time). snip Cheers Dave R Plug any holes with scrunched up galvanised wire netting. They don't like that. Cheers -- Syd |
#3
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Mouse advice please
"David" wrote in message ... We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. The downside of poison isn't kids or pets but the smell of rotting corpses (under ideal conditions for the lingering smell of rotting corpses it must be said) in inaccessible places. However, after the short term fix (if it works) a longer term solution is called for. If it works, and the infestation was already there before you moved in. and which you've solved for them, the the longer term solution is surely the responsibility of the previous occupants. The best long term solution is probably a cat, at least one which was trained as a mouser by the mother. As arrested by Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. michael adams .... |
#4
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 12:20, David wrote:
At the moment we are reluctant to set lethal traps because of the unpleasant task of clearing them of dead or injured mice. I still distinctly remember back in the '70s having to kill a mouse which was caught in a traditional trap. Not fun. So - any tried and tested mouse eradication strategies most welcome. Traditional lethal traps. Get used to having to kill the odd one. (The ickiest moment I had was finding what looked like a black ball bearing. Then you look a bit closer, and see the optic nerve - the trap had squashed the skull and pinged the eyeball out.) |
#5
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 12:40, michael adams wrote:
Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Or those who have dealt with mice for many years. There's at least a couple of us on this group. |
#6
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Mouse advice please
David Wrote in message:
We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. However, after the short term fix (if it works) a longer term solution is called for. Cat? -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#7
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Mouse advice please
Clive George Wrote in message:
On 14/04/2016 12:40, michael adams wrote: Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Or those who have dealt with mice for many years. There's at least a couple of us on this group. Is "dealing with mice for many years" necessarily a good omen for the value of your expertise though? -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#8
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Mouse advice please
"Clive George" wrote in message o.uk... On 14/04/2016 12:40, michael adams wrote: Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Or those who have dealt with mice for many years. If you've been dealing with them years, then that would suggest that you can't have been that successful, if they keep coming back for more. michael adams .... |
#9
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Mouse advice please
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:40:57 +0100, michael adams wrote:
"David" wrote in message ... We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. The downside of poison isn't kids or pets but the smell of rotting corpses (under ideal conditions for the lingering smell of rotting corpses it must be said) in inaccessible places. However, after the short term fix (if it works) a longer term solution is called for. If it works, and the infestation was already there before you moved in. and which you've solved for them, the the longer term solution is surely the responsibility of the previous occupants. The best long term solution is probably a cat, at least one which was trained as a mouser by the mother. As arrested by Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Ummm..we didn't move in, we live near by. They are on holiday. They don't want a cat - trust me on this :-) Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
#10
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 12:20, David wrote:
At the moment we are reluctant to set lethal traps because of the unpleasant task of clearing them of dead or injured mice. I still distinctly remember back in the '70s having to kill a mouse which was caught in a traditional trap. Not fun. It isn't, but personally I prefer that to to a festering mouse corpse soemwhere inaccessible. So - any tried and tested mouse eradication strategies most welcome. Traditional mousetraps baited with dairy milk has worked well for me. Cheers Dave R |
#11
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Mouse advice please
"Clive George" wrote in message o.uk... .. Traditional lethal traps. Get used to having to kill the odd one. Just drop them all, alive or dead, in a bucket of water. However you're probably too late. As so cheap, and so easy to set up, are traditional lethal traps, that alongside depredation by cats, the mouse population of the UK should have been totally eradicated years ago. michael adams .... |
#12
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Mouse advice please
On 4/14/2016 1:17 PM, michael adams wrote:
"Clive George" wrote in message o.uk... On 14/04/2016 12:40, michael adams wrote: Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Or those who have dealt with mice for many years. If you've been dealing with them years, then that would suggest that you can't have been that successful, if they keep coming back for more. michael adams ... A little unfair. Owners of farms, stables, "food" businesses typically have to stay on top of perennial problems. |
#13
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Mouse advice please
"David" wrote in message ... Ummm..we didn't move in, we live near by. They are on holiday. They don't want a cat - trust me on this :-) That may, of may not account for the situation as you found it, then. Depending on how close they live to you, it may be adisable in my opinion to leave matters largely as they are. The last thing you need is for potential refugee mice being made to feel uncomfortable, moving along the road and becoming your problem instead. michael adams .... |
#14
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Mouse advice please
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:20:19 +0000, David wrote:
We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. snip As a side note we have a wildlife camera (Little Acorn) which was a gift from the kids some years ago. Never really got round to using it, but in this case it is proving invaluable because it is showing that the mice are still active. We plan to have the place cleaned once the infestation is gone, but confirming that there are no mice (via the no **** Sherlock approach) seems difficult until you have cleared up the last bit of mouse **** and found no more for several days. Don't want to pay a cleaner before the last mouse is gone. I can see that the mice are continuously active from around 20:00 to 04:00 so very much the night hours. One problem with the camera is that the infra-red flash is too bright and there seems no software option to turn it down. Probably designed for trail use and picking things out 20m away. At about 2-3m indoors most of the picture is washed out. I've stuck some tape over about half the LEDs to see if I can get a proper picture. First attempt at poison was to put a couple of bait boxes along the skirting board. These were obviously used because they were shoved around a bit. Second attempt was to empty out the under sink cupboard, vacuum out most of the mouse ****, and put a jam jar lid full of bait in there. The lid moved across the cupboard over night and was pretty much empty today. Now added a second lid with even more bait, so hopefully they will fill their furry little boots and then expire. Off to check how long the bait usually takes to work. I must say I am glad it isn't my house. My approach would be to pull out the kitchen units to confirm if there is a nest under them, and start blocking the holes in the floor and walls before blocking any entry points at the back of the cupboard. However, their long term problem. Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
#15
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Mouse advice please
"newshound" wrote in message o.uk... On 4/14/2016 1:17 PM, michael adams wrote: "Clive George" wrote in message o.uk... On 14/04/2016 12:40, michael adams wrote: Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Or those who have dealt with mice for many years. If you've been dealing with them years, then that would suggest that you can't have been that successful, if they keep coming back for more. michael adams ... A little unfair. Owners of farms, stables, "food" businesses typically have to stay on top of perennial problems. Farms and stables don't have resident cats then ? michael adams .... |
#16
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Mouse advice please
On Thursday, 14 April 2016 14:35:25 UTC+2, michael adams wrote:
As so cheap, and so easy to set up, are traditional lethal traps, that alongside depredation by cats, the mouse population of the UK should have been totally eradicated years ago. The mice don't seem to have read that memo. Man has been trying to eliminate mice (and rats) for roughly ten thousand years (since we started farming). It *is* possible to exterminate mice on an a small island (but it isn't done with traps), but anything larger they will just repopulate from the few you missed. |
#17
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Mouse advice please
"Martin Bonner" wrote in message ... On Thursday, 14 April 2016 14:35:25 UTC+2, michael adams wrote: As so cheap, and so easy to set up, are traditional lethal traps, that alongside depredation by cats, the mouse population of the UK should have been totally eradicated years ago. The mice don't seem to have read that memo. Man has been trying to eliminate mice (and rats) for roughly ten thousand years (since we started farming). It *is* possible to exterminate mice on an a small island (but it isn't done with traps), but anything larger they will just repopulate from the few you missed. Outside of a home environment, along with the likes of terriers and ferrets, poison is fairly effective on rats. In fact when the choice is between being torn apart by terriers or ferrets or poison humanitarian concerns don't seem to figure very highly when it comes to Mr Ratty - unless people are prepared to be over-run with the things. And the same applies to mice. In order to be effective, given an available food supply, traps would need to kill mice at a faster rate than they can breed. Which is rather a tall order. Hence the need for their constant use. Poison is effective precisely because its taken to the nest by the adults and kills the young in the nest. However in a domestic situation there is always the potential problem of the smell of rotting corpses. Made worse by the fact that the poison can take a long time to act. All I know is that I've never known a household with a mouser(s), rather than more decorative type of cats (not that the two are mutually exclusive) who ever had a problem with mice. michael adams .... |
#18
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Mouse advice please
On 4/14/2016 1:42 PM, michael adams wrote:
"newshound" wrote in message o.uk... On 4/14/2016 1:17 PM, michael adams wrote: "Clive George" wrote in message o.uk... On 14/04/2016 12:40, michael adams wrote: Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Or those who have dealt with mice for many years. If you've been dealing with them years, then that would suggest that you can't have been that successful, if they keep coming back for more. michael adams ... A little unfair. Owners of farms, stables, "food" businesses typically have to stay on top of perennial problems. Farms and stables don't have resident cats then ? michael adams ... Mine doesn't, the greyhounds and lurchers eat them. |
#19
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 13:42, David wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:20:19 +0000, David wrote: We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. snip As a side note we have a wildlife camera (Little Acorn) which was a gift from the kids some years ago. Never really got round to using it, but in this case it is proving invaluable because it is showing that the mice are still active. We plan to have the place cleaned once the infestation is gone, but confirming that there are no mice (via the no **** Sherlock approach) seems difficult until you have cleared up the last bit of mouse **** and found no more for several days. Don't want to pay a cleaner before the last mouse is gone. I can see that the mice are continuously active from around 20:00 to 04:00 so very much the night hours. One problem with the camera is that the infra-red flash is too bright and there seems no software option to turn it down. Probably designed for trail use and picking things out 20m away. At about 2-3m indoors most of the picture is washed out. I've stuck some tape over about half the LEDs to see if I can get a proper picture. First attempt at poison was to put a couple of bait boxes along the skirting board. These were obviously used because they were shoved around a bit. Second attempt was to empty out the under sink cupboard, vacuum out most of the mouse ****, and put a jam jar lid full of bait in there. The lid moved across the cupboard over night and was pretty much empty today. Now added a second lid with even more bait, so hopefully they will fill their furry little boots and then expire. Off to check how long the bait usually takes to work. I must say I am glad it isn't my house. My approach would be to pull out the kitchen units to confirm if there is a nest under them, and start blocking the holes in the floor and walls before blocking any entry points at the back of the cupboard. However, their long term problem. Cheers Dave R IME if they're the sweet little brown things with long tails and big ears, they're field mice, and don't normally nest indoors. They only come in to eat or gather building materials. |
#20
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/16 12:20, David wrote:
At the moment we are reluctant to set lethal traps because of the unpleasant task of clearing them of dead or injured mice. I still distinctly remember back in the '70s having to kill a mouse which was caught in a traditional trap. Not fun. So - any tried and tested mouse eradication strategies most welcome. Good quality neck snapping traps baited with cheese or whatever. Throw the corpses in a place where nature can take its course. You should get - with enough traps - 2-3 mice a night. Don't be squeamish. 100% of mice die horrible natural deaths to which a neck snapping trap is vastly superior, and most mice die young, or we would be inundated with the blighters. -- "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is true: it is true because it is powerful." Lucas Bergkamp |
#21
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/16 13:33, Chris Bartram wrote:
Traditional mousetraps baited with dairy milk has worked well for me. how do you get the milk to stick on the trap? -- "In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is true: it is true because it is powerful." Lucas Bergkamp |
#22
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/16 13:42, David wrote:
I must say I am glad it isn't my house. I bought a S/H cooker rather cheap./ Nice one too. It had a dead mouse behind the control panel I think the vegans who sold it to me were too squeamish.. but they didn't tell me about the mouse did they? Oh no. -- To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote. |
#23
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Mouse advice please
On Thursday, 14 April 2016 17:20:04 UTC+2, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/04/16 13:33, Chris Bartram wrote: Traditional mousetraps baited with dairy milk has worked well for me. how do you get the milk to stick on the trap? By getting Cadbury to embed it in their pseudo-chocolate. Fortunately mice are not fussy. |
#24
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/16 16:22, Martin Bonner wrote:
On Thursday, 14 April 2016 17:20:04 UTC+2, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 14/04/16 13:33, Chris Bartram wrote: Traditional mousetraps baited with dairy milk has worked well for me. how do you get the milk to stick on the trap? By getting Cadbury to embed it in their pseudo-chocolate. Fortunately mice are not fussy. What Cadbury are now purveying, is not chocolate. Not as we know it, Jim. -- You can get much farther with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone. Al Capone |
#25
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Mouse advice please
The Natural Philosopher Wrote in message:
On 14/04/16 16:22, Martin Bonner wrote: On Thursday, 14 April 2016 17:20:04 UTC+2, The Natural Philosopher wrote: On 14/04/16 13:33, Chris Bartram wrote: Traditional mousetraps baited with dairy milk has worked well for me. how do you get the milk to stick on the trap? By getting Cadbury to embed it in their pseudo-chocolate. Fortunately mice are not fussy. What Cadbury are now purveying, is not chocolate. Not as we know it, Jim. Tis true au Natrelle one. IME mouse trap success with After Eights Jim -- Jim K ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- http://usenet.sinaapp.com/ |
#26
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Mouse advice please
On 14 Apr 2016 11:20:19 GMT, David wrote:
Horrible things mice, get a decent track ball. Much better and doesn't wander about the desk needing to be picked up and put back. Initial research indicates that if you can get a pencil through a hole then a mouse can get through - this means that air bricks could be allowing access. Oh, *that* sort of mouse... Thet can get through surprisngly small holes, basically if they can get their skull through the rest will follow. If needs be they can dislocate the plates making up their skull but I don't think they do that routinely. Bars of a mouse cage are a 1/4" apart, mice don't get through that sized gap, shrews do though... The small dimension of a normal wooden pencil is 1/4", the larger 5/16". That extra 1/16" might make all the difference. Other solutions appear to include ultrasonic mouse scarers. I tend to view these with suspicion, but they may well work. Has anyone any experience of these? We bought a couple, can't say it made much if any difference to the mice coming in. They could hear it, as trapped and caged ones would visibly jump when you switched one on but after that didn't seem overly bothered. No running about the cage, no paws over the ears, no hiding away, just carried on normal mousey behaviour. Oh, and one web site recommends humane traps, then taking them at least 2 miles away. ISTR reading that releasing pests such as rats and mice into the countryside is illegal. Initial Googling suggests that in 2008 it was illegal to release black rats or grey squirrels and that any other rodent had to be treated in a "humane" way which is open to interpretation. For example releasing a house mouse in a field well away from all houses may not be considered "humane". The law is rather vague and/or confused on this. AIUI you are not allowed to relase "vermin" but there isn't a legal definition of which creatures are considered "vermin"... At the moment we are reluctant to set lethal traps because of the unpleasant task of clearing them of dead or injured mice. I still distinctly remember back in the '70s having to kill a mouse which was caught in a traditional trap. Not fun. Stop being a wuzz, either you want mice trailing **** where ever they go, crapping on every thing, nibbling anything that is nibbleable (pipe and wiring insulation to card or plastic food containers) or you don't. So - any tried and tested mouse eradication strategies most welcome. Live trapping and releasing 100 m away doesn't work. We noticed this after catching the same mouse 3 nights on the trot (it had a nick out of one ear). Live trapping and releasing 3 miles away does but has dubious legal implications. We also have the abilty to release a good 2 miles from *any* other habitation. Combine live traping and three mile deportation with a cat and the mice don't come in as winter approaches. Don't know if that because they detect the cat and keep away or if there aren't any mice outside any longer. Cat used to bring in a mouse for every half dozen or so voles but she hasn't brought a mouse in for 2 years or longer. She still brings in voles, shrews, baby rabbits, occasional small bird, so I suspect there aren't any mice out there any longer. -- Cheers Dave. |
#27
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Mouse advice please
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#28
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Mouse advice please
David wrote:
Other solutions appear to include ultrasonic mouse scarers. I tend to view these with suspicion, but they may well work. Has anyone any experience of these? Tried these for squirrels/cats. Useless. Personally prefer breakback mousetraps baited with her chocolate. If squeamish, just throw the whole trap away complete with mouse. |
#29
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Mouse advice please
On 2016-04-14 19:47, Sam Plusnet wrote:
snip First find & fix the access holes. After that it doesn't matter where you release them. /snip +1 Anything else is just a bait/kill cycle. |
#30
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/16 20:52, Capitol wrote:
David wrote: Other solutions appear to include ultrasonic mouse scarers. I tend to view these with suspicion, but they may well work. Has anyone any experience of these? Tried these for squirrels/cats. Useless. Personally prefer breakback mousetraps baited with her chocolate. If squeamish, just throw the whole trap away complete with mouse. FFS its just mini chops with fur on. -- The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with what it actually is. |
#31
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 12:20, David wrote:
Other solutions appear to include ultrasonic mouse scarers. I tend to view these with suspicion, but they may well work. Has anyone any experience of these? We get mice in the loft every autumn when the fields are cut. Our neighbour tried one of those, and it worked for over a week. Andy |
#32
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Mouse advice please
"michael adams" wrote in message o.uk... "Clive George" wrote in message o.uk... . Traditional lethal traps. Get used to having to kill the odd one. Just drop them all, alive or dead, in a bucket of water. However you're probably too late. As so cheap, and so easy to set up, are traditional lethal traps, that alongside depredation by cats, the mouse population of the UK should have been totally eradicated years ago. No one has ever totally eradicated any mice or rats that way. |
#33
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Mouse advice please
David wrote:
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 12:40:57 +0100, michael adams wrote: "David" wrote in message ... We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. The downside of poison isn't kids or pets but the smell of rotting corpses (under ideal conditions for the lingering smell of rotting corpses it must be said) in inaccessible places. However, after the short term fix (if it works) a longer term solution is called for. If it works, and the infestation was already there before you moved in. and which you've solved for them, the the longer term solution is surely the responsibility of the previous occupants. The best long term solution is probably a cat, at least one which was trained as a mouser by the mother. As arrested by Otherwise most of the expertise - where to set traps, what bait to use etc is mainly anecdotal and is mainly based on the successful experiences of lucky people faced with particularly stupid mice. Ummm..we didn't move in, we live near by. They are on holiday. They don't want a cat - trust me on this :-) Cheers Dave R Get snakes instead. |
#34
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Mouse advice please
On 14/04/2016 16:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/04/16 13:33, Chris Bartram wrote: Traditional mousetraps baited with dairy milk has worked well for me. how do you get the milk to stick on the trap? Duh! Chill the house ;-) |
#36
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Mouse advice please
what are the mice eating?
get metal bread bins etc. [g] |
#37
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Mouse advice please
On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 03:19:42 -0700, DICEGEORGE wrote:
what are the mice eating? get metal bread bins etc. [g] {Shudder} Just don't ask -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
#38
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Mouse advice please
David wrote:
On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 03:19:42 -0700, DICEGEORGE wrote: what are the mice eating? get metal bread bins etc. [g] {Shudder} Just don't ask The dead cat? Tim |
#39
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Mouse advice please
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 11:20:19 +0000, David wrote:
We are looking after a friend's house and it has a mouse infestation. At the moment we are trying poison - empty house so no problem with kids or pets. snip Update - for the first time last night there was no activity captured on the "mouse cam". We have increased the amount of bait in the under sink cupboard and that has been consumed, but it looks as though the mice are no longer searching the house for extra rations. Because of the change, we don't know if there are fewer mice or if they have been given so much food that their little fat bellies are full and they don't need to wander. I am assuming that we will need to keep bait under the sink for a while after it stops being taken because we don't know if we have wiped out an in-house infestation or if there is a well trodden route in from the outside which will be picked up by "fresh" mice in the future. Whatever, long term solutions are not our problem. Looking back, I first posted on Thursday and it is now Saturday. Seems a lot longer. Cheers Dave R -- Windows 8.1 on PCSpecialist box |
#40
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Mouse advice please
In article , The Natural Philosopher
scribeth thus On 14/04/16 13:42, David wrote: I must say I am glad it isn't my house. I bought a S/H cooker rather cheap./ Nice one too. It had a dead mouse behind the control panel I think the vegans who sold it to me were too squeamish.. but they didn't tell me about the mouse did they? Oh no. One of the Blighters had climbed 10 foot up a brick wall and then into a balanced flue and we found his or her remains in the boiler heat exchanger;(... -- Tony Sayer |
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