Some months ago I bought myself a FOSCAM FI9900P security camera, the
main aim to be recording domestic comings and goings (especially
unwelcome ones).

I have it connected (wirelessly) to a QNAP NAS via my network and have
to say it's a pretty good piece of kit.

Have set up the motion detection to trigger recording...and herein lies
my frustration. By night the internal IR leds (which are necessary to
see anything at all) become an insect magnet, and create false motion
which is detected.... also rain by night has the same effect.

The only solution I can imagine is to turn off the camera's internal
LEDs, and install external IR lighting away from the camera, and outside
the motion detect zones that are set up. Such lights are cheap enough
on Amazon.

....any other suggestions?

Vortex12 wrote in news:dmrquiFsshhU1
@mid.individual.net:

Some months ago I bought myself a FOSCAM FI9900P security camera, the
main aim to be recording domestic comings and goings (especially
unwelcome ones).

I have it connected (wirelessly) to a QNAP NAS via my network and have
to say it's a pretty good piece of kit.

Have set up the motion detection to trigger recording...and herein lies
my frustration. By night the internal IR leds (which are necessary to
see anything at all) become an insect magnet, and create false motion
which is detected.... also rain by night has the same effect.

The only solution I can imagine is to turn off the camera's internal
LEDs, and install external IR lighting away from the camera, and outside
the motion detect zones that are set up. Such lights are cheap enough
on Amazon.

...any other suggestions?




Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in LEDs
as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles close
to the lens.

I often laugh at the term motion detection, it sounds like a polite way to
detect animals defecating within range of the device.
Does not this device have some kind of sensitivity adjustment then?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Vortex12" wrote in message
...
Some months ago I bought myself a FOSCAM FI9900P security camera, the main
aim to be recording domestic comings and goings (especially unwelcome
ones).

I have it connected (wirelessly) to a QNAP NAS via my network and have to
say it's a pretty good piece of kit.

Have set up the motion detection to trigger recording...and herein lies my
frustration. By night the internal IR leds (which are necessary to see
anything at all) become an insect magnet, and create false motion which is
detected.... also rain by night has the same effect.

The only solution I can imagine is to turn off the camera's internal LEDs,
and install external IR lighting away from the camera, and outside the
motion detect zones that are set up. Such lights are cheap enough on
Amazon.

...any other suggestions?

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
I often laugh at the term motion detection, it sounds like a polite way to
detect animals defecating within range of the device.
Does not this device have some kind of sensitivity adjustment then?

Now that's a new definition for "motion detection" :-)

My Foscam security camera does have a sensitivity setting, on the Alarm
menu. I turn it down from the default of 10 (max), mainly because my cameras
keep switching between IR and no IR when the light level is borderline, and
each time they do this at max sensitivity , the picture changes enough to
trigger the auto email.

On 09/04/2016 09:10, Brian Gaff wrote:
I often laugh at the term motion detection, it sounds like a polite way to
detect animals defecating within range of the device.
Does not this device have some kind of sensitivity adjustment then?
Brian


In my case you can set up to 3 rectangular detection zones, with 5
levels of sensitivity on each. All works nicely...until a moth tries to
hump the LED's.

On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:01:05 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in
LEDs as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles
close to the lens.

You have that much dust/muck in the air? Yerk. No need to wipe the
washing line before hanging stuff out up here and one can only see
ones breath when a diesel vehical has just driven past, assuming it's
cold enough. Nothing in the air for the water vapour to condense
onto. Built in IR is NFG if the camera is behind glass either, it
blinds itself.

The little £10 12 V IR iluminators on Amazon/eBay aren't bad but
keep an eye on the beam angle some are very narrow, so will give a
well lit but small area, others are wider producing less brightly lit
image but over a greater area. The one I have is OK, but before I
shoved a few layers of ND or possibly blue lighting filter in front
of it it showed a very visible red glow.

http://www.howhill.com/weather/webcam_24.php

Cloudy damp night last night (09APR16) and a new moon so sod all
light about other than the IR illuminator. Nearest street lights are
the bright white spots 1 1/2 miles away.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On 09/04/2016 12:01, Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:01:05 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in
LEDs as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles
close to the lens.

You have that much dust/muck in the air? Yerk. No need to wipe the
washing line before hanging stuff out up here and one can only see
ones breath when a diesel vehical has just driven past, assuming it's
cold enough. Nothing in the air for the water vapour to condense
onto. Built in IR is NFG if the camera is behind glass either, it
blinds itself.

The little £10 12 V IR iluminators on Amazon/eBay aren't bad but
keep an eye on the beam angle some are very narrow, so will give a
well lit but small area, others are wider producing less brightly lit
image but over a greater area. The one I have is OK, but before I
shoved a few layers of ND or possibly blue lighting filter in front
of it it showed a very visible red glow.

http://www.howhill.com/weather/webcam_24.php

Cloudy damp night last night (09APR16) and a new moon so sod all
light about other than the IR illuminator. Nearest street lights are
the bright white spots 1 1/2 miles away.


I just ordered a £9.95 Amazonian 850nm / 48 LED / (claimed) 60 degree
light. Will see how it works out tomorrow night.

D

"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:01:05 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in
LEDs as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles
close to the lens.

You have that much dust/muck in the air? Yerk. No need to wipe the
washing line before hanging stuff out up here and one can only see
ones breath when a diesel vehical has just driven past, assuming it's
cold enough. Nothing in the air for the water vapour to condense
onto. Built in IR is NFG if the camera is behind glass either, it
blinds itself.

The little £10 12 V IR iluminators on Amazon/eBay aren't bad but
keep an eye on the beam angle some are very narrow, so will give a
well lit but small area, others are wider producing less brightly lit
image but over a greater area. The one I have is OK, but before I
shoved a few layers of ND or possibly blue lighting filter in front
of it it showed a very visible red glow.

Er... What's "ND"?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

jim k Wrote in message:
"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:01:05 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in
LEDs as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles
close to the lens.

You have that much dust/muck in the air? Yerk. No need to wipe the
washing line before hanging stuff out up here and one can only see
ones breath when a diesel vehical has just driven past, assuming it's
cold enough. Nothing in the air for the water vapour to condense
onto. Built in IR is NFG if the camera is behind glass either, it
blinds itself.

The little £10 12 V IR iluminators on Amazon/eBay aren't bad but
keep an eye on the beam angle some are very narrow, so will give a
well lit but small area, others are wider producing less brightly lit
image but over a greater area. The one I have is OK, but before I
shoved a few layers of ND or possibly blue lighting filter in front
of it it showed a very visible red glow.

Er... What's "ND"?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/


Neutral Density filter. They cut down all wavelengths of light
equally.
--
--
Chris French

Chris French Wrote in message:
jim k Wrote in message:
"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:01:05 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in
LEDs as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles
close to the lens.

You have that much dust/muck in the air? Yerk. No need to wipe the
washing line before hanging stuff out up here and one can only see
ones breath when a diesel vehical has just driven past, assuming it's
cold enough. Nothing in the air for the water vapour to condense
onto. Built in IR is NFG if the camera is behind glass either, it
blinds itself.

The little £10 12 V IR iluminators on Amazon/eBay aren't bad but
keep an eye on the beam angle some are very narrow, so will give a
well lit but small area, others are wider producing less brightly lit
image but over a greater area. The one I have is OK, but before I
shoved a few layers of ND or possibly blue lighting filter in front
of it it showed a very visible red glow.

Er... What's "ND"?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/


Neutral Density filter. They cut down all wavelengths of light
equally
.
--

Ah right thks. So presumably the red ir leds are less visible, but
the light doesn't illuminate as well?

--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

jim k Wrote in message:
Chris French Wrote in message:
jim k Wrote in message:
"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Sat, 09 Apr 2016 08:01:05 GMT, DerbyBorn wrote:

Sounds a great idea - I have always been sceptical about the built in
LEDs as they are bound to cause a haze as they illuminate dust particles
close to the lens.

You have that much dust/muck in the air? Yerk. No need to wipe the
washing line before hanging stuff out up here and one can only see
ones breath when a diesel vehical has just driven past, assuming it's
cold enough. Nothing in the air for the water vapour to condense
onto. Built in IR is NFG if the camera is behind glass either, it
blinds itself.

The little £10 12 V IR iluminators on Amazon/eBay aren't bad but
keep an eye on the beam angle some are very narrow, so will give a
well lit but small area, others are wider producing less brightly lit
image but over a greater area. The one I have is OK, but before I
shoved a few layers of ND or possibly blue lighting filter in front
of it it showed a very visible red glow.

Er... What's "ND"?


--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/


Neutral Density filter. They cut down all wavelengths of light
equally
.
--

Ah right thks. So presumably the red ir leds are less visible, but
the light doesn't illuminate as well?

--
I guess that depends on whether the ND filter, cuts down IR as
well as visible light.


--
--
Chris French

On 09/04/2016 08:57, Vortex12 wrote:
Some months ago I bought myself a FOSCAM FI9900P security camera, the
main aim to be recording domestic comings and goings (especially
unwelcome ones).

I have it connected (wirelessly) to a QNAP NAS via my network and have
to say it's a pretty good piece of kit.

Have set up the motion detection to trigger recording...and herein lies
my frustration. By night the internal IR leds (which are necessary to
see anything at all) become an insect magnet, and create false motion
which is detected.... also rain by night has the same effect.

The only solution I can imagine is to turn off the camera's internal
LEDs, and install external IR lighting away from the camera, and outside
the motion detect zones that are set up. Such lights are cheap enough
on Amazon.

...any other suggestions?



You really want the external LEDs so you don't get the number plates
burning out in the image.

On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 13:28:27 +0100 (GMT+01:00), jim wrote:

The one I have is OK, but before I shoved a few layers of ND or
possibly blue lighting filter in front of it it showed a very
visible
red glow.

Er... What's "ND"?

Neutral Density filter. They cut down all wavelengths of light
equally

Ah right thks. So presumably the red ir leds are less visible, but
the light doesn't illuminate as well?

These are stage/TV lighting gels, they tend to be fairly clear at IR,
remember their real use is a few inches in front of say 2.5 kW
halogen lamp. There is a lot of radiated heat if the gel absorbed
much IR it would melt. Some gels do absorb IR and and they don't last
long...

I had a play with layers of ND on it's own or in combination with
layers of a few blues. Finally ended up with a few layers of a blue I
don't know which one but something similar to Lee Filters 120 Deep
Blue:

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/c...tails.html#120

Virtually no transmission at visible red but then the transmission
rapidly climbs. There is a reduction of the IR but almost complete
elimination of the visible red glow, it doesn't catch your eye now.
In fact even though I know where the iluminator is I have trouble
seeing the glow.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Saturday, 9 April 2016 08:57:09 UTC+1, Vortex12 wrote:
Have set up the motion detection to trigger recording...and herein lies
my frustration. By night the internal IR leds (which are necessary to
see anything at all) become an insect magnet, and create false motion
which is detected.... also rain by night has the same effect.

Activate the IR lighting by a PIR motion sensor(s), which won't react to anything smaller than a small animal.

Owain

"Dave Liquorice" Wrote in message:
On Sat, 9 Apr 2016 13:28:27 +0100 (GMT+01:00), jim wrote:

The one I have is OK, but before I shoved a few layers of ND or
possibly blue lighting filter in front of it it showed a very
visible
red glow.

Er... What's "ND"?

Neutral Density filter. They cut down all wavelengths of light
equally

Ah right thks. So presumably the red ir leds are less visible, but
the light doesn't illuminate as well?

These are stage/TV lighting gels, they tend to be fairly clear at IR,
remember their real use is a few inches in front of say 2.5 kW
halogen lamp. There is a lot of radiated heat if the gel absorbed
much IR it would melt. Some gels do absorb IR and and they don't last
long...

I had a play with layers of ND on it's own or in combination with
layers of a few blues. Finally ended up with a few layers of a blue I
don't know which one but something similar to Lee Filters 120 Deep
Blue:

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/c...tails.html#120

Virtually no transmission at visible red but then the transmission
rapidly climbs. There is a reduction of the IR but almost complete
elimination of the visible red glow, it doesn't catch your eye now.
In fact even though I know where the iluminator is I have trouble
seeing the glow.


Mmm I see.

What happens in daylight?
Cheers
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
Virtually no transmission at visible red but then the transmission
rapidly climbs. There is a reduction of the IR but almost complete
elimination of the visible red glow, it doesn't catch your eye now.
In fact even though I know where the iluminator is I have trouble
seeing the glow.

Mmm I see.

What happens in daylight?

If I've understood correctly, the filter would have no effect because it's
over the LEDs rather than the lens, so it only affects the illumination at
night, not the picture that the camera sees during daylight.

My camera has an IR-blocking filter that clicks into place over the lens in
daylight and is removed when the IR turns on at night time. This makes sure
that in daylight the sensor only sees visible light and not also
naturally-occurring IR which would give a strange colour cast. Unfortunately
it makes a loud click when it is switched in and out, and when that happens
frequently when the light is just on the borderline, it gets rather annoying
:-(

"NY" Wrote in message:
"jim" k wrote in message
o.uk...
Virtually no transmission at visible red but then the transmission
rapidly climbs. There is a reduction of the IR but almost complete
elimination of the visible red glow, it doesn't catch your eye now.
In fact even though I know where the iluminator is I have trouble
seeing the glow.

Mmm I see.

What happens in daylight?

If I've understood correctly, the filter would have no effect because it's
over the LEDs rather than the lens, so it only affects the illumination at
night, not the picture that the camera sees during daylight.

My camera has an IR-blocking filter that clicks into place over the lens in
daylight and is removed when the IR turns on at night time. This makes sure
that in daylight the sensor only sees visible light and not also
naturally-occurring IR which would give a strange colour cast. Unfortunately
it makes a loud click when it is switched in and out, and when that happens
frequently when the light is just on the borderline, it gets rather annoying
:-(


Yes you are right, I forgot the "seperate" illuminator aspect and
imagined an all in one.

Presumably Dave's camera has an auto ir filteras standard?

I'm running several cheapo ip cameras and 2 newer 5mp raspberry pi
based ip cams - none have ir filter capabilities, so pondering
how best to sort out the Pi 's (at least) for night time
operations.... Anyone any thoughts? Seen the mechanical ones on
eBay etc, anything else about?

Cheers
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 09:48:49 +0100 (GMT+01:00), jim wrote:

Finally ended up with a few layers of a blue I don't know which
one but
something similar to Lee Filters 120 Deep Blue:

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/c...tails.html#120

Actually it's more of tourquise than blue but without removing the
filter from the illuminator and *attempting* to colour match against
the PC screen that's as close as it's going to get.

Virtually no transmission at visible red but then the transmission
rapidly climbs. There is a reduction of the IR but almost complete
elimination of the visible red glow, it doesn't catch your eye
now.
In fact even though I know where the iluminator is I have trouble
seeing the glow.

Mmm I see.

What happens in daylight?

The LDR in the illuminator turns it off but as that is also covered
by the filter tends to turn it off late and on early. I really ought
to cut some circles the same size as the glass and punch a hole in
the middle to let full day light hit the LDR. That's another tuit for
the stack...

The camera switches an IR filter in/out and to colour/monochrome
based on light level. There is enough hysteresis to prevent chatter
at marginal light levels.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2016 13:03:00 +0100 (GMT+01:00), jim wrote:

Presumably Dave's camera has an auto ir filteras standard?

Yep.

I'm running several cheapo ip cameras and 2 newer 5mp raspberry pi
based ip cams - none have ir filter capabilities, so pondering
how best to sort out the Pi 's (at least) for night time
operations.... Anyone any thoughts?

If you haven't got the NOIR (No Infra Red) Pi cameras you'll either
have to swap 'em for NOIR ones or perform surgery on them to remove
the IR filter that is behind the lens.

Seen the mechanical ones on eBay etc, anything else about?

The mechanical things are what the auto cameras have. AIUI easy
enough to use, pulse of DC one way to put the filter, in pulse the
other way to take it out. A couple of Pi GPIO lines, have them both
in the same state normally and switch the state of one or the other
to give the bi-directional voltage.

I don't know how much current these mechanical filters require and
they'll be inductive. The easiest solution is probably a half an
L293D dual H-bridge chip. Up to 600 mA drive, built-in protection and
seperate logic/drive supplies.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/807

First page that wasn't a .pdf datasheet, other suppliers are
available

If using the bare chip is a "challenge", a bi-directional DC motor
controller board could be used.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:13:43 +0100 (BST), Dave Liquorice wrote:

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/c...tails.html#120

Actually it's more of tourquise than blue but without removing the
filter from the illuminator and *attempting* to colour match against
the PC screen that's as close as it's going to get.

I lied, found a bit lurking under the desk. Comparing against the
computer screen the only one that it's really close to is:

http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/c...ils.html#CL119

"LED Filter CL119 on a Cool White LED (6000K) gives a visual colour
match to existing filter 119 Dark Blue on Tungsten (3200K)."

Think there are three layers of it in front of the iluminator.

--
Cheers
Dave.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2016 09:47:09 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

snip

I don't know how much current these mechanical filters require and
they'll be inductive. The easiest solution is probably a half an
L293D dual H-bridge chip. Up to 600 mA drive, built-in protection and
seperate logic/drive supplies.

https://www.adafruit.com/product/807

First page that wasn't a .pdf datasheet, other suppliers are
available

If using the bare chip is a "challenge", a bi-directional DC motor
controller board could be used.

I used that approach when driving some model railway points from an
Arduino. The problem in that case was that you had to pulse the
current on two different halves of a solenoid coil, not just reverse
the polarity on one. So I used half of one bridge and a capacitor and
that worked fine, once I had worked the supply voltage and capacitance
out. ;-)

And at the price of the complete board with and heatsink it wasn't
worth buying the parts. ;-)

Cheers, T i m