I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet of steel?

--
Interesting fact number 923:
Half the world's population has seen at least one Bond movie.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

--
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is,

There must be some data about uninsulated sheds, if only so you
can see what result you will get if you insulate one or don't bother.

everyone is talking on the web about insulated sheds. Nobody ever
mentions what R is for an uninsulated one.

Bet the tables of R values for walls do.

I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

Yes, much worse. Not much better than nothing with R
values, tho it obviously does stop the wind blowing thru
particularly when you are heating the shed.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web about
insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an uninsulated one.
I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

You wouldn't be far out if you assume 0.

That is close to what single glazed glass is.

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying a brick
wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of 0.000023? So a garage
door lets through 35000 times more heat than a brick wall? Are you sure
you have the decimal point in the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place. Think about
it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal has much higher
conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal conductivity in Engineering
Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:05:09 +0100, newshound wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying a brick
wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of 0.000023? So a garage
door lets through 35000 times more heat than a brick wall? Are you sure
you have the decimal point in the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place. Think about
it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal has much higher
conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal conductivity in Engineering
Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

I can believe the conductivity is a lot more. But does that translate directly into heat loss from a building? For example, consider your house with cavity wall insulation. The air temperature right next to your wall is more or less room temperature. Now consider if your garage was heated to the same temperature as your house. The air right next to the steel garage door would be a lot cooler than the rest of the garage, as the door has conducted heat away form it. So now the temperature difference through the steel door is less. Does this not work against the conductivity when calculating R values?

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to keep tropical birds in. I've insulated the roof (was plywood and bitumen, now have added 12cm polystyrene sheets and wood cladding), the walls (was single brick, now have added same as above), and changed the steel door to be the same as the walls - single brick + insulation (plus a double glazed window). From what MathCAD is saying, almost all the heat was disappearing through the steel door. Trouble is the weather has now warmed up, so I can't really tell by the duty cycle of the boiler how much effect I've had.

--
A study in Scotland showed that the kind of male face a woman finds attractive can differ depending where a woman is in her menstrual cycle.
For instance, if she is ovulating they are attracted to men with rugged, masculine features.
If she is menstruating she is more prone to be attracted to a man with scissors shoved in his temple.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:40:22 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web about
insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an uninsulated one.
I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

You wouldn't be far out if you assume 0.

That is close to what single glazed glass is.

0 would be nothing there at all. Clearly opening the garage door lets the heat out MUCH faster.

--
If the English language made any sense, lackadaisical would have something to do with a shortage of flowers.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:36:57 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is,

There must be some data about uninsulated sheds, if only so you
can see what result you will get if you insulate one or don't bother.

I looked but found only insulated sheds.

everyone is talking on the web about insulated sheds. Nobody ever
mentions what R is for an uninsulated one.

Bet the tables of R values for walls do.

I've only ever found brick, air gaps, glass, and insulation.

I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

Yes, much worse. Not much better than nothing with R
values, tho it obviously does stop the wind blowing thru
particularly when you are heating the shed.

It's now been removed, I've got a single brick wall with poly sheet insulation and wood cladding, with a double glazed window in it.

--
Circumvent (n.), an opening in the front of boxer shorts worn by Jewish men.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:05:09 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns
wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying a brick
wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of 0.000023? So a garage
door lets through 35000 times more heat than a brick wall? Are you sure
you have the decimal point in the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place. Think about
it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal has much higher
conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal conductivity in Engineering
Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

I can believe the conductivity is a lot more. But does that translate
directly into heat loss from a building? For example, consider your house
with cavity wall insulation. The air temperature right next to your wall
is more or less room temperature. Now consider if your garage was heated
to the same temperature as your house. The air right next to the steel
garage door would be a lot cooler than the rest of the garage, as the door
has conducted heat away form it. So now the temperature difference
through the steel door is less. Does this not work against the
conductivity when calculating R values?

No, that is just the result of the very low R value you get with a sheet of
metal.

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in. I've insulated the roof (was plywood and bitumen,
now have added 12cm polystyrene sheets and wood cladding), the walls (was
single brick, now have added same as above), and changed the steel door to
be the same as the walls - single brick + insulation (plus a double glazed
window). From what MathCAD is saying, almost all the heat was
disappearing through the steel door. Trouble is the weather has now
warmed up, so I can't really tell by the duty cycle of the boiler how much
effect I've had.

Calculate it using the R value for a sheet of glass and it will be near
enough.

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:25:46 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:05:09 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns
wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying a brick
wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of 0.000023? So a garage
door lets through 35000 times more heat than a brick wall? Are you sure
you have the decimal point in the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place. Think about
it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal has much higher
conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal conductivity in Engineering
Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

I can believe the conductivity is a lot more. But does that translate
directly into heat loss from a building? For example, consider your house
with cavity wall insulation. The air temperature right next to your wall
is more or less room temperature. Now consider if your garage was heated
to the same temperature as your house. The air right next to the steel
garage door would be a lot cooler than the rest of the garage, as the door
has conducted heat away form it. So now the temperature difference
through the steel door is less. Does this not work against the
conductivity when calculating R values?

No, that is just the result of the very low R value you get with a sheet of
metal.

So in reality, an R value half of another R value, doesn't mean you're losing twice as much heat.

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in. I've insulated the roof (was plywood and bitumen,
now have added 12cm polystyrene sheets and wood cladding), the walls (was
single brick, now have added same as above), and changed the steel door to
be the same as the walls - single brick + insulation (plus a double glazed
window). From what MathCAD is saying, almost all the heat was
disappearing through the steel door. Trouble is the weather has now
warmed up, so I can't really tell by the duty cycle of the boiler how much
effect I've had.

Calculate it using the R value for a sheet of glass and it will be near
enough.

Surely steel is worse than glass. If you touch a glass beaker of boiling water, it'll be a few seconds before you say ouch. But touch a steel kettle of boiling water and you'll say ouch almost instantly.

--
If you believe in telepathy, raise my hand.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:40:22 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about
insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an uninsulated one.
I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

You wouldn't be far out if you assume 0.

That is close to what single glazed glass is.

0 would be nothing there at all.

Yes, but that is what a sheet of metal is, no insulation at all.

Clearly opening the garage door lets the heat out MUCH faster.

Only because it lets the air blow thru. The thin layer of air that
the sheet of metal replaces does in fact CONDUCT less than the
sheet of metal does.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:25:46 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:05:09 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns
wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value
of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying a brick
wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of 0.000023? So a garage
door lets through 35000 times more heat than a brick wall? Are you
sure
you have the decimal point in the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place. Think about
it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal has much higher
conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal conductivity in Engineering
Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

I can believe the conductivity is a lot more. But does that translate
directly into heat loss from a building? For example, consider your
house
with cavity wall insulation. The air temperature right next to your
wall
is more or less room temperature. Now consider if your garage was
heated
to the same temperature as your house. The air right next to the steel
garage door would be a lot cooler than the rest of the garage, as the
door
has conducted heat away form it. So now the temperature difference
through the steel door is less. Does this not work against the
conductivity when calculating R values?

No, that is just the result of the very low R value you get with a sheet
of
metal.

So in reality, an R value half of another R value, doesn't mean you're
losing twice as much heat.

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in. I've insulated the roof (was plywood and
bitumen,
now have added 12cm polystyrene sheets and wood cladding), the walls
(was
single brick, now have added same as above), and changed the steel door
to
be the same as the walls - single brick + insulation (plus a double
glazed
window). From what MathCAD is saying, almost all the heat was
disappearing through the steel door. Trouble is the weather has now
warmed up, so I can't really tell by the duty cycle of the boiler how
much
effect I've had.

Calculate it using the R value for a sheet of glass and it will be near
enough.

Surely steel is worse than glass.

Sure, but not enough to matter when comparing it
with both with 12cm of polyfoam insulation added.

If you touch a glass beaker of boiling water, it'll be a few seconds
before you say ouch.

It doesn't actually make any significant difference
if the container has been standing with boiling
water in it for a while before you touch it.

But touch a steel kettle of boiling water and you'll say ouch almost
instantly.

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

LMFAO



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

..............shouldn't you be over in uk.rec.driving getting bashed again?



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:41:09 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:40:22 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about
insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an uninsulated one.
I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than that? A lot worse?

You wouldn't be far out if you assume 0.

That is close to what single glazed glass is.

0 would be nothing there at all.

Yes, but that is what a sheet of metal is, no insulation at all.

I guess nothing would be less than R=0, as you have more than just conduction, but free flow of air.

Clearly opening the garage door lets the heat out MUCH faster.

Only because it lets the air blow thru. The thin layer of air that
the sheet of metal replaces does in fact CONDUCT less than the
sheet of metal does.

Indeed, which is why the R in reality of the garage door is more than the sheet of steel alone.

--
Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my lunch, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the van, and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50 mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day. I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed.. I cuddled up to my wife's back, now with a different anticipation, and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible."
My loving wife of 5 years replied, "And can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?"
And that's how the fight started...

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:47:28 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:25:46 +0100, Thomas Johns wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:05:09 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns
wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value
of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on the web
about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R is for an
uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is steel worse than
that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit thick) the U
will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be 2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite a bit of
difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying a brick
wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of 0.000023? So a garage
door lets through 35000 times more heat than a brick wall? Are you
sure
you have the decimal point in the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place. Think about
it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal has much higher
conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal conductivity in Engineering
Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

I can believe the conductivity is a lot more. But does that translate
directly into heat loss from a building? For example, consider your
house
with cavity wall insulation. The air temperature right next to your
wall
is more or less room temperature. Now consider if your garage was
heated
to the same temperature as your house. The air right next to the steel
garage door would be a lot cooler than the rest of the garage, as the
door
has conducted heat away form it. So now the temperature difference
through the steel door is less. Does this not work against the
conductivity when calculating R values?

No, that is just the result of the very low R value you get with a sheet
of
metal.

So in reality, an R value half of another R value, doesn't mean you're
losing twice as much heat.

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in. I've insulated the roof (was plywood and
bitumen,
now have added 12cm polystyrene sheets and wood cladding), the walls
(was
single brick, now have added same as above), and changed the steel door
to
be the same as the walls - single brick + insulation (plus a double
glazed
window). From what MathCAD is saying, almost all the heat was
disappearing through the steel door. Trouble is the weather has now
warmed up, so I can't really tell by the duty cycle of the boiler how
much
effect I've had.

Calculate it using the R value for a sheet of glass and it will be near
enough.

Surely steel is worse than glass.

Sure, but not enough to matter when comparing it
with both with 12cm of polyfoam insulation added.

If you touch a glass beaker of boiling water, it'll be a few seconds
before you say ouch.

It doesn't actually make any significant difference
if the container has been standing with boiling
water in it for a while before you touch it.

I'm sure it does. 100C steel burns you a lot quicker.

But touch a steel kettle of boiling water and you'll say ouch almost
instantly.

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

That's 200C. Both will burn you very quickly. But I'm sure glass at 100C would take a second or two to burn you, while steel would be under a second.

--
Peter is listening to "Pogues with Sinead O'Connor - I'm a man you don't meet every day"

On 03/04/16 20:57, Thomas Johns wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

almost nonexistent.


--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

--

Jeff

In message , Mr Macaw writes

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in.

Some years ago, I had a longish single width garage I wanted to use as a
'hobby room', yet allow easy conversion back to garage when selling the
house.

I was lucky enough to have a roll of old carpet which I cut to garage
width, and laid on top of plastic sheet, on the concrete floor. The
plastic and carpet was run the full length of the garage then straight
up at 90 degrees, in front of the metal up and over door, and secured at
the top. Old sheets of chip were cut to length and screwed to the door
frame, over the carpet. Ceiling and all walls, including the chip,
painted white, fluorescent lights installed, job done.

No idea about R values, but it did make a large, cosy, draught proof
room, that was easily converted back to a garage. There was, of course,
a separate personal access door.

--
Graeme

"Jeff Layman" wrote in message
...
On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of ordinary
glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

Nothing even remotely relevant to the situation being discussed.

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the rate
at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn with glass
or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the heat is not
transferred so rapidly.

I dont believe that with the situation he was discussing,
a glass beaker with 100C water in it and a metal one.

Or with his original situation either, a metal garage door
or a normal thin glass one like a very big window either.

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:51:44 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

It's heat flow - the less conductive glass loses heat to your hand and then
more heat has to get 'through' glass from inside.
There was a video of a space shuttle tile heated from underneath until it
was red hot right through. The reporter put his hand on the top and wasn't
burned, due to the small amount of enery in the surface and the very low
conductivity.
If there were a flexible version of those tiles we could have freezers with
thin walls and a thin cladding on houses. Cost a bit, though.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway

"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:51:44 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

It's heat flow - the less conductive glass loses heat to your hand and
then
more heat has to get 'through' glass from inside.
There was a video of a space shuttle tile heated from underneath until it
was red hot right through. The reporter put his hand on the top and wasn't
burned, due to the small amount of enery in the surface and the very low
conductivity.
If there were a flexible version of those tiles we could have freezers
with
thin walls and a thin cladding on houses. Cost a bit, though.

Why is it that aluminium foil, heated in the oven or under the grill when
something is cooking, is cool enough touch within seconds of removing it
from the oven/grill, whereas a metal or ceramic dish at the same temperature
stays hot for ages? Is it because of the small mass of metal close to where
your skin is, and hence the small amount of energy that is retained in the
foil relative to the surface area, or is it because the foil rapidly
conducts heat away so the temperature falls very soon after the foil is
removed from the heat source?

On Sunday, 3 April 2016 20:49:40 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

I used to have to work in an uninsulated sheet steel and plexiglass cabin (not a shipping container, a lot less substantial) and the blow heater going full blast just about kept it warm. Turn the heater off and the temp plummeted within minutes. No insulative effect at all, it just kept the wind out..

Steel garage doors are usually very badly fitting too, so lots of draughts.

Owain

"NY" wrote in message
...
"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:51:44 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

It's heat flow - the less conductive glass loses heat to your hand and
then
more heat has to get 'through' glass from inside.
There was a video of a space shuttle tile heated from underneath until it
was red hot right through. The reporter put his hand on the top and
wasn't
burned, due to the small amount of enery in the surface and the very low
conductivity.
If there were a flexible version of those tiles we could have freezers
with
thin walls and a thin cladding on houses. Cost a bit, though.

Why is it that aluminium foil, heated in the oven or under the grill when
something is cooking, is cool enough touch within seconds of removing it
from the oven/grill, whereas a metal or ceramic dish at the same
temperature stays hot for ages?

Because they foil has next to no thermal inertia/thermal capacity.

Is it because of the small mass of metal close to where your skin is,

Yes, and small mass of metal in total too.

and hence the small amount of energy that is retained in the foil

Yes, there isnt enough to burn you.

relative to the surface area,

Doesn't have anything much to do with surface area.

or is it because the foil rapidly conducts heat away so the temperature
falls very soon after the foil is removed from the heat source?

No, there isnt really anywhere to conduct it away to in that situation.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 09:21:58 +0100, PeterC wrote:

On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:51:44 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

It's heat flow - the less conductive glass loses heat to your hand and then
more heat has to get 'through' glass from inside.
There was a video of a space shuttle tile heated from underneath until it
was red hot right through. The reporter put his hand on the top and wasn't
burned, due to the small amount of enery in the surface and the very low
conductivity.
If there were a flexible version of those tiles we could have freezers with
thin walls and a thin cladding on houses. Cost a bit, though.

Why does it need to be flexible? A freezer and a house wall are stationary.

--
Abdicate (v.), to give up all hope of ever having a flat stomach.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:08:37 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"NY" wrote in message
...
"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:51:44 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

It's heat flow - the less conductive glass loses heat to your hand and
then
more heat has to get 'through' glass from inside.
There was a video of a space shuttle tile heated from underneath until it
was red hot right through. The reporter put his hand on the top and
wasn't
burned, due to the small amount of enery in the surface and the very low
conductivity.
If there were a flexible version of those tiles we could have freezers
with
thin walls and a thin cladding on houses. Cost a bit, though.

Why is it that aluminium foil, heated in the oven or under the grill when
something is cooking, is cool enough touch within seconds of removing it
from the oven/grill, whereas a metal or ceramic dish at the same
temperature stays hot for ages?

Because they foil has next to no thermal inertia/thermal capacity.

Is it because of the small mass of metal close to where your skin is,

Yes, and small mass of metal in total too.

and hence the small amount of energy that is retained in the foil

Yes, there isnt enough to burn you.

relative to the surface area,

Doesn't have anything much to do with surface area.

or is it because the foil rapidly conducts heat away so the temperature
falls very soon after the foil is removed from the heat source?

No, there isnt really anywhere to conduct it away to in that situation.

The air.

--
What's the difference between a black and a white fairytale?
White begins, "once upon a time," black begins, "y'all mother****ers ain't gonna believe dis ****!"

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 10:49:04 +0100, wrote:

On Sunday, 3 April 2016 20:49:40 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

I used to have to work in an uninsulated sheet steel and plexiglass cabin (not a shipping container, a lot less substantial) and the blow heater going full blast just about kept it warm. Turn the heater off and the temp plummeted within minutes. No insulative effect at all, it just kept the wind out.

Steel garage doors are usually very badly fitting too, so lots of draughts.

I had fitted draught excluders, but I was unaware most of the heat went through the steel door. I insulated the ceiling first as heat rises.

--
We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked, but not compromised. We are associated, but not absorbed.
And should a European statesman address us and say "Shall we speak for thee?", we should reply "nay sir, for we dwell among our own people".
-- Winston Churchill 1953

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:03:37 +0100, News wrote:

In message , Mr Macaw writes

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in.

Some years ago, I had a longish single width garage I wanted to use as a
'hobby room', yet allow easy conversion back to garage when selling the
house.

I was lucky enough to have a roll of old carpet which I cut to garage
width, and laid on top of plastic sheet, on the concrete floor. The
plastic and carpet was run the full length of the garage then straight
up at 90 degrees, in front of the metal up and over door, and secured at
the top. Old sheets of chip were cut to length and screwed to the door
frame, over the carpet. Ceiling and all walls, including the chip,
painted white, fluorescent lights installed, job done.

No idea about R values, but it did make a large, cosy, draught proof
room, that was easily converted back to a garage. There was, of course,
a separate personal access door.

I wonder how much is lost through the concrete floor? That's the only thing I haven't insulated.

--
Peter is listening to The Who - Behind Blue Eyes

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 04:53:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/04/16 20:57, Thomas Johns wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

almost nonexistent.

Maybe there's a shortage of wood in Australia? Most sheds are wood in the UK.


--
Old statisticians never die. They just get broken down by age and sex.

In message , Mr Macaw writes
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:03:37 +0100, News wrote:

No idea about R values, but it did make a large, cosy, draught proof
room, that was easily converted back to a garage. There was, of course,
a separate personal access door.

I wonder how much is lost through the concrete floor? That's the only
thing I haven't insulated.

I don't know, but I did cover the carpet on the floor with scatter rugs,
so it was rugs on carpet, on sheet plastic on concrete. I don't
remember whether I had underlay. The carpet was old and worn, but had
started life as fairly good quality.
--
Graeme

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 15:11:41 +0100, pamela wrote:

On 23:16 3 Apr 2016, Mr Macaw wrote:

On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:05:09 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:24 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:19:00 +0100, newshound
wrote:

On 4/3/2016 9:02 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 20:57:07 +0100, Thomas Johns
wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the
R-value of insulated garage doors (which I didn't even
know existed!). What is the R-value of a traditional
garage door, made of a simple sheet
of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

That doesn't help me find what it is, everyone is talking on
the web about insulated sheds. Nobody ever mentions what R
is for an uninsulated one. I know a house brick is 0.8. Is
steel worse than that? A lot worse?

Well for a 1 mm plain steel sheet (which might be a bit
thick) the U will be about 43000 W/m^2K so the R will be
2.3*10^-5 m^2K/W.

A coat of paint or perhaps a plastic coating will make quite
a bit of difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-value_(insulation)

Bloody hell, I didn't know it was that bad. So you're saying
a brick wall has an R of 0.8, and a garage door an R of
0.000023? So a garage door lets through 35000 times more heat
than a brick wall? Are you sure you have the decimal point in
the right place?

I'm reasonably sure MathCAD has put it in the right place.
Think about it. A brick is about 100 times thicker, and metal
has much higher conductivity than ceramics, look up thermal
conductivity in Engineering Toolbox, or other suitable sites.

I can believe the conductivity is a lot more. But does that
translate directly into heat loss from a building? For example,
consider your house with cavity wall insulation. The air
temperature right next to your wall is more or less room
temperature. Now consider if your garage was heated to the same
temperature as your house. The air right next to the steel
garage door would be a lot cooler than the rest of the garage,
as the door has conducted heat away form it. So now the
temperature difference through the steel door is less. Does
this not work against the conductivity when calculating R
values?

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I
heat it to keep tropical birds in.

Macaws no doubt?

African Greys and cockatiels at the moment. I used to have Scarlet Macaws.

--
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway

On 04/04/16 15:11, News wrote:
In message , Mr Macaw writes
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:03:37 +0100, News
wrote:

No idea about R values, but it did make a large, cosy, draught proof
room, that was easily converted back to a garage. There was, of course,
a separate personal access door.

I wonder how much is lost through the concrete floor? That's the only
thing I haven't insulated.

I don't know, but I did cover the carpet on the floor with scatter rugs,
so it was rugs on carpet, on sheet plastic on concrete. I don't
remember whether I had underlay. The carpet was old and worn, but had
started life as fairly good quality.

its curious, but with solid concrete floors the 'path to the air' is via
a helluva lot of soil, and that gets factored in (the building regs) as
quite a decent insulator.

In order of worseness, Id say a typical garage would have doors worst,
then single glazed windows, then roof, then walls, then floor.



--
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 16:00:29 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/04/16 15:11, News wrote:
In message , Mr Macaw writes
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:03:37 +0100, News
wrote:

No idea about R values, but it did make a large, cosy, draught proof
room, that was easily converted back to a garage. There was, of course,
a separate personal access door.

I wonder how much is lost through the concrete floor? That's the only
thing I haven't insulated.

I don't know, but I did cover the carpet on the floor with scatter rugs,
so it was rugs on carpet, on sheet plastic on concrete. I don't
remember whether I had underlay. The carpet was old and worn, but had
started life as fairly good quality.

its curious, but with solid concrete floors the 'path to the air' is via
a helluva lot of soil, and that gets factored in (the building regs) as
quite a decent insulator.

Wet soil, water is a good conductor. The air around the concrete floor feels a lot colder than the rest of the room.

In order of worseness, Id say a typical garage would have doors worst,
then single glazed windows, then roof, then walls, then floor.

--
110 people once tied for second prize in the Powerball Lottery after playing the same lucky numbers from a fortune cookie.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 11:08:37 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"NY" wrote in message
...
"PeterC" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 07:51:44 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

On 03/04/16 23:47, Thomas Johns wrote:

I'm not convinced that there would
be any difference in that situation.

In fact I know there isnt because I do in fact
have both sheet metal and pyrex baking dishes
and both burn you just as badly if you don't
use something between them and your
hand when taking them out of the oven.

Of course there's a difference. Would you do this with a piece of
ordinary glass or steel?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp9Yax8UNoM

It's not so much the absolute temperature which is important, but the
rate at which heat is transferred to the skin. Yes, you'd get a burn
with glass or steel, but you are less likely to get it with glass as
the
heat is not transferred so rapidly.

It's heat flow - the less conductive glass loses heat to your hand and
then
more heat has to get 'through' glass from inside.
There was a video of a space shuttle tile heated from underneath until
it
was red hot right through. The reporter put his hand on the top and
wasn't
burned, due to the small amount of enery in the surface and the very
low
conductivity.
If there were a flexible version of those tiles we could have freezers
with
thin walls and a thin cladding on houses. Cost a bit, though.

Why is it that aluminium foil, heated in the oven or under the grill
when
something is cooking, is cool enough touch within seconds of removing it
from the oven/grill, whereas a metal or ceramic dish at the same
temperature stays hot for ages?

Because they foil has next to no thermal inertia/thermal capacity.

Is it because of the small mass of metal close to where your skin is,

Yes, and small mass of metal in total too.

and hence the small amount of energy that is retained in the foil

Yes, there isnt enough to burn you.

relative to the surface area,

Doesn't have anything much to do with surface area.

or is it because the foil rapidly conducts heat away so the temperature
falls very soon after the foil is removed from the heat source?

No, there isnt really anywhere to conduct it away to in that situation.

The air.

That isnt what happens with the foil in that situation.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 10:49:04 +0100, wrote:

On Sunday, 3 April 2016 20:49:40 UTC+1, Mr Macaw wrote:
I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

I used to have to work in an uninsulated sheet steel and plexiglass cabin
(not a shipping container, a lot less substantial) and the blow heater
going full blast just about kept it warm. Turn the heater off and the
temp plummeted within minutes. No insulative effect at all, it just kept
the wind out.

Steel garage doors are usually very badly fitting too, so lots of
draughts.

I had fitted draught excluders, but I was unaware most of the heat went
through the steel door. I insulated the ceiling first as heat rises.

You were likely losing more thru the door than the ceiling.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 08:03:37 +0100, News
wrote:

In message , Mr Macaw writes

Anyway, the reason I asked is I'm insulating my garage, as I heat it to
keep tropical birds in.

Some years ago, I had a longish single width garage I wanted to use as a
'hobby room', yet allow easy conversion back to garage when selling the
house.

I was lucky enough to have a roll of old carpet which I cut to garage
width, and laid on top of plastic sheet, on the concrete floor. The
plastic and carpet was run the full length of the garage then straight
up at 90 degrees, in front of the metal up and over door, and secured at
the top. Old sheets of chip were cut to length and screwed to the door
frame, over the carpet. Ceiling and all walls, including the chip,
painted white, fluorescent lights installed, job done.

No idea about R values, but it did make a large, cosy, draught proof
room, that was easily converted back to a garage. There was, of course,
a separate personal access door.

I wonder how much is lost through the concrete floor?

Quite a bit.

That's the only thing I haven't insulated.

The other effect you get with carpet is that the surface
temperature is a lot closer the air temp so if feel warmer
because you don't radiate from your body to that surface
so much.

Not as good for a room full of birds tho, harder to hose
the **** away.

"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 04:53:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/04/16 20:57, Thomas Johns wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

almost nonexistent.

Maybe there's a shortage of wood in Australia?

Nope. Plenty of the cheaper houses were
done with wood. what we call weatherboard.

Most sheds are wood in the UK.

Some of them are here too, and some are brick too.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 20:20:10 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Mr Macaw" wrote in message news
On Mon, 04 Apr 2016 04:53:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:

On 03/04/16 20:57, Thomas Johns wrote:


"Mr Macaw" wrote in message
news I looked everywhere on Google, and all I can find is the R-value of
insulated garage doors (which I didn't even know existed!).
What is the R-value of a traditional garage door, made of a simple
sheet of steel?

Same as a shed with walls done that way.

almost nonexistent.

Maybe there's a shortage of wood in Australia?

Nope. Plenty of the cheaper houses were
done with wood. what we call weatherboard.

Most sheds are wood in the UK.

Some of them are here too, and some are brick too.

I have a brick shed, but only because I was fed up with the wood ones rotting. Everybody else seems to have wood here. The only metal buildings I see are much larger, like barn size.

--
Seen on a tap in a Finnish washroom:
To stop the drip, turn cock to right.