Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then flush some cold water from the tap?

On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely good
for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe. I've
cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water just runs
away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner - or
its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where
the mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid. Conc.
HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium hydroxide
crystals.

On 2016-04-02 15:14:24 +0000, Tim Watts said:

On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely
good for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe.
I've cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water
just runs away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner - or
its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where
the mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid. Conc.
HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium hydroxide
crystals.

It's basically 90% sulphuric acid - see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Drai.../dp/B00OLYE5RU


Just pondering whether this is best not used in plastic drainage pipes...

On 02/04/16 16:29, John Smith wrote:
On 2016-04-02 15:14:24 +0000, Tim Watts said:

On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely
good for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe.
I've cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water
just runs away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner -
or its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where
the mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid.
Conc. HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium
hydroxide crystals.

It's basically 90% sulphuric acid - see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Drai.../dp/B00OLYE5RU

Just pondering whether this is best not used in plastic drainage pipes...


To be honest, it does not seem the best. Bleach is sufficient to take
out the living scunge and to a degree attacks grease - the problem is it
doesn't get to the upper parts of the pipe, which is where the foaming
stuff comes in handy. I've only ever used acid on limescale.

On 02/04/2016 16:44, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:52:00 +0100, John Smith
wrote:

Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then flush some cold water from the tap?

I'm not sure if the OP means the U bend trap under the sink, it which
case why not just remove it? When he says kitchen sink 'drain' could
that be outside

It's very strong sulphuric acid. As you say, you can drain the trap
before adding the acid (don't forget to put it back together first!).
125 ml of acid should sit comfortably in the lower part of the trap,
but when you add the water it will probably react violently, possibly
causing a fountain of boiling water and acid to emerge like a jet from
the plug-hole. Apart from then attacking anything it lands on, like
the SS sink, work top, pots and pans, an inquisitive child who's crept
up behind you unnoticed, it will also attack you if you happen to be
in the way, which you may well be if you're still pouring the water.

One Shot is usually added to water in a WC, technically the wrong way
around, but you can't do anything else. As you say it will badly damage
SS sinks, chrome wastes and anything else.

If it were me, I'd try a less corrosive drain cleaner first (like Mr
Muscle), or even a rubber plunger (seal off the overflow if you use
the latter otherwise it won't work) and only resort to the One Shot as
a last resort. If I had to use it, I'd make sure I was wearing strong
rubber gloves, full face protection and a protective garment of some
sort, and clear the decks and keep the kitchen door shut to prevent
unexpected visitors. Actually, I don't think I would use it at all.

I use it quite often, but I'm ultra careful as you have suggested.

Safety Data Sheet here http://tinyurl.com/gplgyzs
Amongst other things it says:

Sulfuric acid 91 %
Reacts violently with water.
Wash promptly if skin becomes contaminated.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Probably less likely to affect plastic pipes than metal ones.


Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

That rule is specifically for sulphuric acid. I've just looked, "One
Shot" claims to be 94% sulphuric acid, if it really is that strong
then, yes, you should add acid to water. However, I'm amazed that
they're allowed to sell acid that strong, if it really is.


Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then flush some cold water from the tap?

Follow the instructions would seem to be the best idea to me.

--
Chris Green
·

On 02/04/2016 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Why not just take the trap apart and clean it out?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

David Lang wrote:
It's very strong sulphuric acid. As you say, you can drain the trap
before adding the acid (don't forget to put it back together first!).
125 ml of acid should sit comfortably in the lower part of the trap,
but when you add the water it will probably react violently, possibly
causing a fountain of boiling water and acid to emerge like a jet from
the plug-hole. Apart from then attacking anything it lands on, like
the SS sink, work top, pots and pans, an inquisitive child who's crept
up behind you unnoticed, it will also attack you if you happen to be
in the way, which you may well be if you're still pouring the water.

One Shot is usually added to water in a WC, technically the wrong way
around, but you can't do anything else. As you say it will badly damage
SS sinks, chrome wastes and anything else.

No, it's the right way round, add concentrated acid to a large volume
of water is the safe/correct way round.

--
Chris Green
·

John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of
the all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to
acid...
Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then flush some cold water from the tap?

Have you tried the obvious?
http://groceries.asda.com/asda-webst...t/910001446192

On 02/04/16 18:27, wrote:
David Lang wrote:
It's very strong sulphuric acid. As you say, you can drain the trap
before adding the acid (don't forget to put it back together first!).
125 ml of acid should sit comfortably in the lower part of the trap,
but when you add the water it will probably react violently, possibly
causing a fountain of boiling water and acid to emerge like a jet from
the plug-hole. Apart from then attacking anything it lands on, like
the SS sink, work top, pots and pans, an inquisitive child who's crept
up behind you unnoticed, it will also attack you if you happen to be
in the way, which you may well be if you're still pouring the water.

One Shot is usually added to water in a WC, technically the wrong way
around, but you can't do anything else. As you say it will badly damage
SS sinks, chrome wastes and anything else.

No, it's the right way round, add concentrated acid to a large volume
of water is the safe/correct way round.

Sometimes correct depends on the purpose. I use concentrated caustic
soda - Sodium hydroxide -- down in the U -bend and ad hot water.

It is explosive, but it clears the bloody drains all right!

You just need to not get skin or eyes in the way of the caustic geyser.

Permanent blindness is possible.



--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first centurys developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 2016-04-02 17:07:51 +0000, Roger Mills said:

On 02/04/2016 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Why not just take the trap apart and clean it out?

The blockage is further down the pipework and buried under the kitchen
floor or in units.

On 02/04/2016 17:58, wrote:
John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Probably less likely to affect plastic pipes than metal ones.

One Shot comes in a plastic bottle :-)


Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

That rule is specifically for sulphuric acid. I've just looked, "One
Shot" claims to be 94% sulphuric acid, if it really is that strong
then, yes, you should add acid to water. However, I'm amazed that
they're allowed to sell acid that strong, if it really is.

It is that strong, trust me. Nothing else works quite like it.


Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then flush some cold water from the tap?

Follow the instructions would seem to be the best idea to me.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely good
for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe. I've
cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water just runs
away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner - or
its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where the
mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid.

That One Shot drain cleaner is in fact 91% conc sulphuric acid.

Conc.
HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium hydroxide
crystals.

In article 2016040219005191240-nospam@nospamcom,
John Smith writes:
On 2016-04-02 17:07:51 +0000, Roger Mills said:

On 02/04/2016 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Why not just take the trap apart and clean it out?

The blockage is further down the pipework and buried under the kitchen
floor or in units.

On a trip browsing around Lidl (an excuse for a cycle ride), I picked
up one of those "that might be useful one day" purchases, which is a
pipe cleaning kit you connect to a pressure washer outlet, like a smaller
version of the ones Thames Water used up a blocked sewer.

About 2 weeks later, the kitchen sink blocked enough that the dishwasher
pump-out backed up into the sink and then drained away slowly.

Took the U-trap off, but could instantly see the problem was the exit
pipework was gundged up, with only about a 1/2" holw left down the middle
for the water to flow away. Fetched the pipe cleaner from the garage,
connected up the pressure washer, and it worked fantastically. Pushed
the cleaning head right through until the pipe opened out into the 4"
waste pipe from upstairs. The backwards-facing jets chisseled the grime
off the pipe, leaving the small part I could see (and I assume the rest
too) looking like nice new shiny plastic.

Cleaning head won't go around a U-trap, but it managed the other bends.
I did have a little difficulty pulling it back out of the 4" pipe back
into the 40mm branch, because a heatshrink sleave on the end was catching
on an edge in the pipework, but it eventually released.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 02/04/16 20:00, Thomas Johns wrote:

That One Shot drain cleaner is in fact 91% conc sulphuric acid.

Conc.
HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium hydroxide
crystals.


Blimey...

On 2016-04-02 18:24:47 +0000, David Lang said:

On 02/04/2016 17:58, wrote:
John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Probably less likely to affect plastic pipes than metal ones.

One Shot comes in a plastic bottle :-)


It's the reaction and heat that's a concern with plastic and seems to
be what happened in that awful news item someone else linked to on this
thread about it coming through a ceiling and dripping on a boy's face
in the flat below.

On 02/04/2016 19:00, John Smith wrote:
On 2016-04-02 17:07:51 +0000, Roger Mills said:



Why not just take the trap apart and clean it out?

The blockage is further down the pipework and buried under the kitchen
floor or in units.

How do you know? Have you had the trap apart?

If it *is* downstream of the trap, you may be able to get some sort of
flexible device down the pipe to clear it if you first remove the trap
to get access to the pipe.

I would regard powerful chemicals as very much of a last resort.
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

On 02/04/2016 20:34, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


On a trip browsing around Lidl (an excuse for a cycle ride), I picked
up one of those "that might be useful one day" purchases, which is a
pipe cleaning kit you connect to a pressure washer outlet, like a smaller
version of the ones Thames Water used up a blocked sewer.


Yes, I've got one of those. Never needed to use it in anger though - YET!

Is it really suitable for indoor use? I would have thought that the
backward facing nozles may propel water - and gunge - back out of the
end of the pipe and spray it all round the kitchen. Did you manage to
avoid that?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:52:00 +0100, John Smith
wrote:

Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then flush some cold water from the tap?

It's very strong sulphuric acid. As you say, you can drain the trap
before adding the acid (don't forget to put it back together first!).
125 ml of acid should sit comfortably in the lower part of the trap,
but when you add the water it will probably react violently, possibly
causing a fountain of boiling water and acid to emerge like a jet from
the plug-hole. Apart from then attacking anything it lands on, like
the SS sink, work top, pots and pans, an inquisitive child who's crept
up behind you unnoticed, it will also attack you if you happen to be
in the way, which you may well be if you're still pouring the water.

Sounds like rot to me ,if it were that violent it would not be sold for
the purpose,there would be court cases every where.



If it were me, I'd try a less corrosive drain cleaner first (like Mr
Muscle), or even a rubber plunger (seal off the overflow if you use
the latter otherwise it won't work) and only resort to the One Shot as
a last resort. If I had to use it, I'd make sure I was wearing strong
rubber gloves, full face protection and a protective garment of some
sort, and clear the decks and keep the kitchen door shut to prevent
unexpected visitors. Actually, I don't think I would use it at all.

Safety Data Sheet here http://tinyurl.com/gplgyzs
Amongst other things it says:

Sulfuric acid 91 %
Reacts violently with water.
Wash promptly if skin becomes contaminated.

Chris Hogg wrote:
This may be of interest http://tinyurl.com/jhgcueh

There is more in that than meets the eye and must have been a number of
not normal factors for that to have occurred.

In article ,
Roger Mills writes:
On 02/04/2016 20:34, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


On a trip browsing around Lidl (an excuse for a cycle ride), I picked
up one of those "that might be useful one day" purchases, which is a
pipe cleaning kit you connect to a pressure washer outlet, like a smaller
version of the ones Thames Water used up a blocked sewer.


Yes, I've got one of those. Never needed to use it in anger though - YET!

Is it really suitable for indoor use? I would have thought that the
backward facing nozles may propel water - and gunge - back out of the
end of the pipe and spray it all round the kitchen. Did you manage to
avoid that?

I had the U-trap off and a bucket under the pipe end. The pipe turns
left almost immediately and runs along the wall for a way behind the
kitchen units, so not much came out the end unless the head was close.
Did have to wash out the cupboard afterwards as what did come out was
black. The other problem was the pressure washer leaks (not a problem
outside - indeed I hadn't noticed the leak before), but I had to keep
mopping up the clean water which was coming out of the case.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Roger Mills writes:
On 02/04/2016 20:34, Andrew Gabriel wrote:


On a trip browsing around Lidl (an excuse for a cycle ride), I picked
up one of those "that might be useful one day" purchases, which is a
pipe cleaning kit you connect to a pressure washer outlet, like a smaller
version of the ones Thames Water used up a blocked sewer.


Yes, I've got one of those. Never needed to use it in anger though - YET!

Is it really suitable for indoor use? I would have thought that the
backward facing nozles may propel water - and gunge - back out of the
end of the pipe and spray it all round the kitchen. Did you manage to
avoid that?

I had the U-trap off and a bucket under the pipe end. The pipe turns
left almost immediately and runs along the wall for a way behind the
kitchen units, so not much came out the end unless the head was close.
Did have to wash out the cupboard afterwards as what did come out was
black. The other problem was the pressure washer leaks (not a problem
outside - indeed I hadn't noticed the leak before), but I had to keep
mopping up the clean water which was coming out of the case.


I've got one too. Fantastic for blocked sewers outside the house. I'd never
use it inside though.

Tim

On 4/2/2016 5:47 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/04/16 16:29, John Smith wrote:
On 2016-04-02 15:14:24 +0000, Tim Watts said:

On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to
acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely
good for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe.
I've cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water
just runs away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner -
or its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where
the mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid.
Conc. HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium
hydroxide crystals.

It's basically 90% sulphuric acid - see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Drai.../dp/B00OLYE5RU

Just pondering whether this is best not used in plastic drainage pipes...


To be honest, it does not seem the best. Bleach is sufficient to take
out the living scunge and to a degree attacks grease - the problem is it
doesn't get to the upper parts of the pipe, which is where the foaming
stuff comes in handy. I've only ever used acid on limescale.

Agreed, but you don't need to worry about sulphuric acid attacking
plastic drain pipes.

On 2016-04-03 20:38:03 +0000, newshound said:

On 4/2/2016 5:47 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/04/16 16:29, John Smith wrote:
On 2016-04-02 15:14:24 +0000, Tim Watts said:

On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to
acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely
good for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe.
I've cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water
just runs away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner -
or its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where
the mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid.
Conc. HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium
hydroxide crystals.

It's basically 90% sulphuric acid - see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Drai.../dp/B00OLYE5RU

Just pondering whether this is best not used in plastic drainage pipes...


To be honest, it does not seem the best. Bleach is sufficient to take
out the living scunge and to a degree attacks grease - the problem is it
doesn't get to the upper parts of the pipe, which is where the foaming
stuff comes in handy. I've only ever used acid on limescale.

Agreed, but you don't need to worry about sulphuric acid attacking
plastic drain pipes.

If you provoke a reaction you can release a lot of heat that can melt
plastic. That's the point.

On 4/3/2016 9:43 AM, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:34:46 +1000, F Murtz
wrote:

Chris Hogg wrote:
This may be of interest http://tinyurl.com/jhgcueh

There is more in that than meets the eye and must have been a number of
not normal factors for that to have occurred.

I have no doubt that the DM exaggerated and dramatised the story for
commercial reasons. It's what they do.

I have no doubt that the reporter who covered the story is technically
illiterate and wouldn't know acid from alkali. It's what they are.

But the basics of the story are clear. The man in the top flat used
One Shot to clear a blockage in his drain. Somehow the One Shot
escaped the confines of the drainage system, dissolved or soaked its
way through the floor of the flat and the ceiling of the flat below,
and dripped onto the pillow and face of the little boy sleeping
underneath. Luckily, the boy was not seriously disfigured, although he
obviously received some acid burns to his face. The pillow did not
fare so well.

What do you doubt about that?


I agree that this is a horrific story, and probably reason enough never
to use that product. All credit to the mother for doing exactly the
right thing and flushing liberally with water.

My understanding is that PVC, polyethylene, and polypropylene (as used
in normal 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 inch waste pipes) are resistant to concentrated
sulphuric acid, but ABS (as used in some 110 mm pipes) is not.

I do wonder, in the quoted case, whether the acid was released because
it dissolved a "seal" made from limescale, or perhaps the pipes were
already degraded in some other way.

If that 91% concentration is high enough to show the classic overheating
reaction when water is added to concentrated sulphuric acid, I am quite
surprised to see it so readily available on sale.

"newshound" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 4/2/2016 5:47 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
To be honest, it does not seem the best. Bleach is sufficient to take
out the living scunge and to a degree attacks grease - the problem is it
doesn't get to the upper parts of the pipe, which is where the foaming
stuff comes in handy. I've only ever used acid on limescale.

Agreed, but you don't need to worry about sulphuric acid attacking plastic drain pipes.

As with acetone that depends on the type of plastic

According to this chart both 75-100% and hot and cold concentrated
sulphuric acid have a severe effect on PVC and are not
recommended for any use.

http://www.calpaclab.com/pvc-polyvin...ibility-chart/

And its PVC which I believe, many drainpipes are made of.


michael adams

....

On 03/04/2016 21:38, newshound wrote:
On 4/2/2016 5:47 PM, Tim Watts wrote:
On 02/04/16 16:29, John Smith wrote:
On 2016-04-02 15:14:24 +0000, Tim Watts said:

On 02/04/16 15:52, John Smith wrote:
Our kitchen sink drain is blocked and only draining slowly. I have a
bottle of One Shot acid - is it Ok to use on plastic pipes and what's
the best procedure?

Instructions say remove as much water as possible first and then add
water once you have put in 125ml acid - obviously I can get rid of
the
all the water in the trap but I was taught never to add water to
acid...

Is it best to slowly add to the water in the trap and then wait and
then
flush some cold water from the tap?


Personally I've found the Mr Muscle foaming drain cleaner extremely
good for situations like this as it coats all the gunk in the pipe.
I've cleared a slow draining shower - took 3 goes but now the water
just runs away rather than filling the tray to 3" deep.

To answer your question, we'd need to know the make of the cleaner -
or its ingredients.

Your teaching only applies to adding water to concentrated acids where
the mixing releases a lot of heat - notable conc. sulphuric acid.
Conc. HCl is no problem mixing with water. Also applies to sodium
hydroxide crystals.

It's basically 90% sulphuric acid - see
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Drai.../dp/B00OLYE5RU


Just pondering whether this is best not used in plastic drainage
pipes...


To be honest, it does not seem the best. Bleach is sufficient to take
out the living scunge and to a degree attacks grease - the problem is it
doesn't get to the upper parts of the pipe, which is where the foaming
stuff comes in handy. I've only ever used acid on limescale.

Agreed, but you don't need to worry about sulphuric acid attacking
plastic drain pipes.

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years
without that being a problem.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

"David Lang" wrote in message
...

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years without that being a
problem.

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

Just the same as wood.

Which must come in handy when explining to the punters
why you're knocking up decking from piles of old pallets.


michael adams

....

On 04/04/2016 11:35, michael adams wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
...

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years without that being a
problem.

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

As regards acid resistance it pretty much is, One Shot has been used for
donkey's years. If it damaged plastic pipes it would be well known & the
bottle would have a warning on it.

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

Just the same as wood.

Which must come in handy when explining to the punters
why you're knocking up decking from piles of old pallets.


Totally ridiculous analogy.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 04/04/16 13:10, David Lang wrote:
On 04/04/2016 11:35, michael adams wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
...

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years
without that being a
problem.

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

As regards acid resistance it pretty much is, One Shot has been used for
donkey's years. If it damaged plastic pipes it would be well known & the
bottle would have a warning on it.

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

Pretty sure that it does, from A level chemistry.

Its a very strong reducing agent IIRC. So any plastic with oxygen
molecules in it is prone to attack


http://www.plasticsintl.com/plastics...nce_chart.html

looks like the PVC/polythene classes are OK, but acetal which is a sort
of nylon, is not.




--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

"David Lang" wrote in message
...
On 04/04/2016 11:35, michael adams wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
...

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years without that being
a
problem.

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

As regards acid resistance it pretty much is, One Shot has been used for donkey's
years. If it damaged plastic pipes it would be well known & the bottle would have a
warning on it.


Not according to numerous websites. The fact it may not damage
plastic drainpipes is only because its diluted with so much
water. Maybe you're suggesting there's no problem either
in storing it in old plastic milk bottles or plastic
lemonade bottles.



Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

Just the same as wood.

Which must come in handy when explining to the punters
why you're knocking up decking from piles of old pallets.


Totally ridiculous analogy.

You're right. It would have been far better to suggest that
the body of your Makita or whatever it is drill, is made from
exactly the same stuff as are plastic milk or lemonade bottles


michael adams

....

On 04/04/2016 14:22, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 13:10:17 +0100, David Lang
wrote:

On 04/04/2016 11:35, michael adams wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
...

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years without that being a
problem.

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

LOL to that! Ignorance is bliss!

As regards acid resistance it pretty much is, One Shot has been used for
donkey's years. If it damaged plastic pipes it would be well known & the
bottle would have a warning on it.

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

'Plastic' is an imprecise and generic term. 'Plastic' embraces a large
range of chemical compositions. Basically, anything that becomes
moldable at moderate temperatures can be and is described as 'a
plastic'.

This, from http://tinyurl.com/huycaad

Quote
"Corrosivity to Non-Metals:
Sulfuric acid attacks plastics, such as nylon (all concentrations),
polyvinylidene chloride (50-100%), acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene
(ABS) (60-100%), styrene acrylonitrile (SAN) (90-100%), polyurethane
(rigid) (40-100%), polyetherether ketone (PEEK) (50-100%), olyethylene
terephthalate (PET) (40-100%), high-density polyethylene (80-100%)
(HDPE), thermoset polyester bisphenol A fumarate (80-100%), thermoset
polyester isophathalic acid (70-100%), polystyrene (80-100%) and
ethylene vinyl acetate (EVA)(75-100%); elastomers, such as butyl
rubber (isobutylene isoprene) (80-100%), nitrile buna N (nitrile
rubber) (90-100%), chloroprene (neoprene) (75-100%), isoprene
(60-100%), natural rubber (60-100%), hard rubber (60-100%), soft
rubber (30-100%), chlorosulfonated polyethylene (CSM) (90-100%),
styrene-butadiene (SBR) (10-100%), polyacrylate (10-100%),
polyurethane (10-100%), chlorinated polyethylene (all concentrations),
nylon 11 and 12 (20-100%), silicone rubbers (120-100%), flexible
polyvinyl chloride (PVC) (95-100%), low density polyethylene (LDPE)
(90-100%) and ethylene vinyl acetate (50-100%); and coatings, such as
coal tar epoxy (10-100%), general purpose epoxy (30-100%),
chemical resistant epoxy (60-100%) and vinyls (90-100%). Sulfuric acid
does not attack plastics, such as Teflon and other fluorocarbons, like
ethylene tetrafluoroethylene (ETFE; Tefzel), ethylene
chlorotrifluoroethylene (ECTFE; Halar) and chlorotrifluoroethylene
(Kel-F) (all concentrations), polyvinyl chloride (PVC) (up to 96%),
chlorinated polyvinyl chloride (CPVC) (up to 96%), polypropylene (up
to 98%), acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene (ABS) (up to 50%),
high-density polyethylene (up to 75%) (HDPE),ultrahigh molecular
weight polyethylene (UHMWPE) (up to 100%), cross-linked polyethylene
(XLPE) (up to 96%), polyetherether ketone (PEEK) (up to 50%) and
polystyrene (up to 70%); elastomers, such as Viton A and other
fluorocarbons, like Teflon, Chemraz Kalrez and Fluoraz, ethylene
propylene(EP) (up to 100%), butyl rubber (isobutylene isoprene) (up to
80%), nitrile buna N (nitrile rubber) (up to 80%), chloroprene
(neoprene) (up to 70%, flexible polyvinyl chloride (PVC) (up to 50%)
and , low density polyethylene (LDPE) (up to 80%); and coatings, such
as polyester (up to 80%), urethanes (up to 80%) and vinyls (up to
80%)."
End quote

The figures in brackets refer to the strengths of acid to which the
particular plastic is vulnerable. Note that there are some plastics
that are attacked by moderately dilute sulphuric acid, but not by
concentrated sulphuric acid.

So yes, sulphuric acid attacks 'plastic'. The fact that it's sold in a
'plastic' bottle, merely shows that the mfrs have carefully selected a
suitable plastic for that purpose.

And the fact that it has been used for years without a problem shows
that the mfrs have carefully selected a suitable plastic for waste pipes.

Do you really think that B&Q, Wickes, Screwfix, Homebase, Amazon, Asda,
Plumbase, Robert Dyas, Tesco, Wilkinsons and every independent plumbers
merchant in the UK have been selling a product that damages waste pipes
for the last 20 years?



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...
So there's little doubt that One Shot is capable of attacking a great
many plastics, including one commonly used in domestic waste
situations. That is undeniable. But you make a reasonable point. I
note that One Shot is described as a 'drain cleaner'. Perhaps the mfrs
don't expect people to use it in domestic waste pipes, only drains,
which may be less susceptible to attack than domestic waste pipes,
especially if made of stoneware (not that much is, these days). If
that's the case, it should be made clear. It's also possible that when
the One Shot is poured into a domestic sink, for example, there's
enough water in the trap to dilute it down to a safe concentration.

Indeed. On the B&Q web page

http://www.diy.com/departments/one-s.../254799_BQ.prd

they don't actually say it can be used on waste pipes. And given that
they claim it can dissolve "grease , rags, soap, paper towels in minutes"
it's rather surprising that the bottle itself, or the web page isn't
plasterd with hazard warnings; maybe other websites are more
informative. It's the "rags" bit there that seems a bit scary.

As most people will only discover they have a blocked waste pipe
as a result of the pipe filling with water maybe the product
is sufficiently diluted during those minutes when its dissolving
the grease , rags, soap, paper towels so as to not to effect
the plastic, or any joints.


But there's still the case reported in the DM, for which the most
obvious explanation is that the One Shot attacked and ate through the
pipework.



michael adams

....

On 04/04/2016 17:36, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:03:41 +0100, David Lang


So there's little doubt that One Shot is capable of attacking a great
many plastics, including one commonly used in domestic waste
situations.

But in practice it doesn't.

That is undeniable. But you make a reasonable point.

I do.

I
note that One Shot is described as a 'drain cleaner'. Perhaps the mfrs
don't expect people to use it in domestic waste pipes, only drains,
which may be less susceptible to attack than domestic waste pipes,
especially if made of stoneware (not that much is, these days). If
that's the case, it should be made clear. It's also possible that when
the One Shot is poured into a domestic sink, for example, there's
enough water in the trap to dilute it down to a safe concentration.

From the One Shot website;
DO NOT USE ON ALUMINIUM, GALVANISED METAL, STAINLESS STEEL OR WASTE
DISPOSAL UNITS.
MAY ETCH ACID SENSITIVE PORCELAIN, ACRYLIC AND ENAMEL FIXTURES.
WILL NOT HARM IRON, STEEL, CLAY, LEAD, COPPER, PLASTIC PIPES OR HARM
SEPTIC TANKS WHEN USED AS DIRECTED.


But there's still the case reported in the DM, for which the most
obvious explanation is that the One Shot attacked and ate through the
pipework.

I don't think we can entirely trust the DM to report things accurately.
We simply don't know what happened. The DM reported "But the liquid
was so strong that it melted the pipes, floor and ceiling".

How much did he use? Did he follow the instructions & flush?

The manufacturer clearly states that it will not harm plastic pipes.



--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 2016-04-04 17:26:05 +0000, David Lang said:

On 04/04/2016 17:36, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:03:41 +0100, David Lang


So there's little doubt that One Shot is capable of attacking a great
many plastics, including one commonly used in domestic waste
situations.

But in practice it doesn't.

That is undeniable. But you make a reasonable point.

I do.

I
note that One Shot is described as a 'drain cleaner'. Perhaps the mfrs
don't expect people to use it in domestic waste pipes, only drains,
which may be less susceptible to attack than domestic waste pipes,
especially if made of stoneware (not that much is, these days). If
that's the case, it should be made clear. It's also possible that when
the One Shot is poured into a domestic sink, for example, there's
enough water in the trap to dilute it down to a safe concentration.

From the One Shot website;
DO NOT USE ON ALUMINIUM, GALVANISED METAL, STAINLESS STEEL OR WASTE
DISPOSAL UNITS.
MAY ETCH ACID SENSITIVE PORCELAIN, ACRYLIC AND ENAMEL FIXTURES.
WILL NOT HARM IRON, STEEL, CLAY, LEAD, COPPER, PLASTIC PIPES OR HARM
SEPTIC TANKS WHEN USED AS DIRECTED.


But there's still the case reported in the DM, for which the most
obvious explanation is that the One Shot attacked and ate through the
pipework.

I don't think we can entirely trust the DM to report things accurately.
We simply don't know what happened. The DM reported "But the liquid
was so strong that it melted the pipes, floor and ceiling".

How much did he use? Did he follow the instructions & flush?

The manufacturer clearly states that it will not harm plastic pipes.

As I've noted a few times, it may be that some water was added to
concentrated acid and the heat from the reaction (not the acid) melted
a plastic pipe.

On 04/04/2016 19:26, John Smith wrote:
On 2016-04-04 17:26:05 +0000, David Lang said:

On 04/04/2016 17:36, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Mon, 4 Apr 2016 17:03:41 +0100, David Lang


So there's little doubt that One Shot is capable of attacking a great
many plastics, including one commonly used in domestic waste
situations.

But in practice it doesn't.

That is undeniable. But you make a reasonable point.

I do.

I
note that One Shot is described as a 'drain cleaner'. Perhaps the mfrs
don't expect people to use it in domestic waste pipes, only drains,
which may be less susceptible to attack than domestic waste pipes,
especially if made of stoneware (not that much is, these days). If
that's the case, it should be made clear. It's also possible that when
the One Shot is poured into a domestic sink, for example, there's
enough water in the trap to dilute it down to a safe concentration.

From the One Shot website;
DO NOT USE ON ALUMINIUM, GALVANISED METAL, STAINLESS STEEL OR WASTE
DISPOSAL UNITS.
MAY ETCH ACID SENSITIVE PORCELAIN, ACRYLIC AND ENAMEL FIXTURES.
WILL NOT HARM IRON, STEEL, CLAY, LEAD, COPPER, PLASTIC PIPES OR HARM
SEPTIC TANKS WHEN USED AS DIRECTED.


But there's still the case reported in the DM, for which the most
obvious explanation is that the One Shot attacked and ate through the
pipework.

I don't think we can entirely trust the DM to report things
accurately. We simply don't know what happened. The DM reported
"But the liquid was so strong that it melted the pipes, floor and
ceiling".

How much did he use? Did he follow the instructions & flush?

The manufacturer clearly states that it will not harm plastic pipes.

As I've noted a few times, it may be that some water was added to
concentrated acid and the heat from the reaction (not the acid) melted a
plastic pipe.


That's entirely possible, we simply don't know, but it would make no
sense to remove all the water, add the acid & replace the water.

I suspect pilot error played a large part.


--
Dave - The Medway Handyman

On 04/04/2016 13:10, David Lang wrote:

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

I keep HCl for drains. It's in a plastic bottle.

It ate my plastic tweezers, which I'd used because I thought they'd be
OK unlike the steel tools.

Andy

Vir Campestris wrote:
On 04/04/2016 13:10, David Lang wrote:

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of plastic???

I keep HCl for drains. It's in a plastic bottle.

It ate my plastic tweezers, which I'd used because I thought they'd be
OK unlike the steel tools.

I'm amazed that Hydrochloric Acid affected plastic tweezers. It's not
the *acidity* of Sulphuric Acid that makes it so corrosive.

Concentrated Nitric Acid and Hydrochloric Acid don't even affect the
skin all that much, I remember simply washing spills off our hands at
school (not likely nowadays I suspect). Nitric Acid used to leave
yellow marks. Concentrated Sulphuric on the skin is another matter
altogether.

--
Chris Green
·

I hope you know the cause of the blockage and can fix it.

Poor plumbing? (A poorly cut pipe can attract hair and grease)
Grease?
Hair?
Soap made of animal fat - change to shower gel and liquid hand wash

On 4/4/2016 1:17 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/04/16 13:10, David Lang wrote:
On 04/04/2016 11:35, michael adams wrote:
"David Lang" wrote in message
...

It comes in a plastic bottle and has been around for twenty years
without that being a
problem.

Indeed. Plastic's plastic, it's all the same stuff really.

As regards acid resistance it pretty much is, One Shot has been used for
donkey's years. If it damaged plastic pipes it would be well known & the
bottle would have a warning on it.

Do you have any evidence that sulphuric acid attacks any kind of
plastic???

Pretty sure that it does, from A level chemistry.

Its a very strong reducing agent IIRC. So any plastic with oxygen
molecules in it is prone to attack

It's an oxidising agent.